And we are in pretty good shape-good energy--work out a lot and are both still working, so should be able to handle the pace.

No point in the long trip to/from Halong Bay unless you overight, preferably on the water. You do realize you will need a multiple entry visa for Vietnam with that itinerary? Thought you were skipping Hoi An?

How about going to Luang Prabang instead of Hoi An? Direct flight from Siem Reap. Handsome, colorful monks make for great photos.

Oh wow! Had not thought of these options. thursdaysd I just talked to a friend who went to V last year and just did a 4 hour private boat deal at Halong Bay and loved it, then drove back. And no, I did not think about a multiple entry visa for Vietnam. This is why I love this forum!!! Thank you so much for that alert. I was skipping Hoi An, but actually I really want to go there if possible.
Marija, I will check into that. Would love to visit Laos. Didn't even think about a very short trip. THANKS!!!

If you are going to Siem Reap, rather than just staying in Viet Nam, then Luang Prabang makes sense. And I say this as a Hoi An booster. LP is a good place to chill after intense templing, and will, as Marija says, provide great photo fodder. It will also give you a good sense of the diversity of the region. But this plays against your idea of keeping costs down--sticking to Viet Nam would be cheaper!

I still think sticking to one country, even with 18 days, makes more sense in terms of cost, both monetary and time lost on planes\ airports etc. a day moving from one place to another is more or less a day lost. This can be mitigated in some places by exciting means of travel. E.g the train ride from Danang to Hue ( for Hoi An) is one onpf the most scenic I have experienced.

Luang Prabang is great as is Siem Reap but both are now, understandably, very busy with other tourists. If photography is the main purpose of your trip then both places offer endless opps but you will have to work hard to avoid the crowds, particularly at SR.

I don't really want to add to your options, but here is a link to a group tour operator with loads of experience in the region

Pressed too soon!!

http://www.intrepidtravel.com/search/trip/Vietnam%2520 they have a wide variety of different trips in the region with tried and tested itineraries. If you click on a trip then that will bring up more detail and the options on the right hand side to look at detailed itneraries and very detailed trip notes. These will provide some insight into the logistics of getting around. NB I am not suggesting you use them, although some friends raved over them when they booked a private tour with them. Tonkin may have something similar but it always helps to go pre armed with specific ideas.

One final thought, have you considered an "open jaw" ticket say into Hanoi and out of perhaps Saigon or Bangkok - could reduce the cost of internal flights? Just a thought!

Thanks crellston and Friendship_Bay. I have a lot to think about. I'm so afraid we won't be back to this area, so want to get variety and LP is an interesting idea. (We haven't been here since Myanmar in 2011 and India in 2010.) I'll read up on LP and the Intrepid site looks like it will give me some ideas also. And so today as I look into tickets, I'll think about an open jaw ticket. A lot depends on what is available for miles and I am guessing it is pretty limited this close to the depart date. I'm off to the gym now.

Again thanks crellston! I am trying right now to book award tickets and found them to Hanoi from LAX and from Cambodia back to LAX which will save some hassle and time and money! Unfortunately I needed to transfer a few thousand miles from my husband's account and that is taking some time. Looks like we would fly both Thai Air and Asiana, going economy and returning business. Hopefully!

You are very welcome pattyroth. I hope you get it sorted!

Yay! I got the tickets late last night. Unfortunately we arrive in Hanoi on a Friday night which means we'll have to catch the train the following day to Sapa to make the Sunday market. But that will work. Flying out of Phnom Penh sets part of the rest of the itinerary for us, but also simplifies things (thanks again crellston) Anyone ever hear of the Angel Palace Hotel? Young friends of ours stayed there in Hanoi and said it was nice and cheap. Can't wait to find time to work out the rest of the details.

So far it looks like Hanoi for one night, then the train to Sapa for two nights there and the train back, then possibly Halong Bay (still not sure if this is worth it--but think it is), then fly to Danang for Hoi An two days and then fly to Siem Riep for the rest of the time. Still up in the air how much time to spend in Siem Riep and whether to take a day or two to drive and trek from Hanoi. Or if we should venture out from Siem Riep (probably) to another part of Cambodia. What are your thoughts on the importance of Halong Bay????

Great result pattyroth!

Re the importance of Ha long Bay. It is purely my subjective view, but for me, it was not worth the time and effort of getting there. Undoubtedly nice seascapes if you are into that but with limited time, I would be prioritising other places in preference to Ha long. Maybe it is just me as other have loved it. It was a long time ago, but even then, the pestering by touts got to be a real pain, maybe you would be insulated from this on an upmarket tour? There is quieter alternative to Ha long nearby, but the name escapes me. Maybe if you google 'alternative to Halong,' you will find something.

I would definitely take some time to trek from Hanoi in the Mai Chau valley and, if you have the time, there is a great day trek around the Sapa valley.

How much time to spend in SR really depends upon how much you are into temples. Most people just visit in the mornings ( with maybe a return trip late pm) because of the heat and so it take around 3 full days to see the major sites and another if you want to venture further afield to the outlying sites. A trip out to Tonle Sap lake will take a half day, perhaps after the temples.

I agree that whether Halong Bay is worth the time depends on how keen you are on scenery. I had no trouble with touts there in 2004, although I did encounter them at an alternative venue nearby - Tam Coc. Since you are captive on a small boat at Tam Coc, it's very annoying.

WRT Angkor, the first time I was there for three nights - a sunset and two full days, and that wasn't enough for me. I went back later for another four nights. Reading Dawn Rooney's guide should give you a good idea of what's there and how interested you are.

While I enjoyed Halong Bay I was on a pretty leisurely trip, and if I were pressed for time I would rate Angkor, and Hanoi itself, above Halong Bay.

My contribution isn't meaningful but I will make it anyway. I was glad to have seen Halong Bay last winter as part of a cruise from HK to Singapore. It was one of the highlights, even on a grey January day (maybe that added to the atmosphere). But because we were on the coast, and on water anyway, it was no effort. I don't need to go back, and wouldn't trade it off against Hanoi or villages along the Mekong.

Thanks thursdaysd, Friendship _Bay and crellston. Right now I am leaning towards an itinerary like this:
Arrive Hanoi, 1 night
Overnight to Sapa and see Bac Ha Market in the morning
2 nights Sapa
Overnight train back to Hanoi
Hanoi 2-4 nights, possibly including some trekking 1-2 days by Mai Chau
Fly to Danang for Hoi An for two nights
Danang to Siem Riep for 4 nights and then home.

That cuts out Halong Bay, but allows for flexibility to trek if we want to and thus see villages. Obviously if we go to Mai Chau, we'd have the 4 nights in Hanoi. We probably will get templed out in Siem Riep but like the idea of venturing into the countryside if we do. (we have been to Bagan in Myanmar.)
This isn't anything like my original plans, but seems reasonable? I am open!

Looking good pattyroth! My only concern is jumping on the train the day after arriving in Hanoi. The train is a great experience but we found it very difficult to sleep, mainly because the ride was jolting us around all night. That said, if you are arriving from the US, you will probably be tired enough to sleep through anything!!

Travelfish has some good info on less visited sites around Tonle Sap - I think this is the place we spent a morning at http://www.travelfish.org/sight_prof.../siem_reap/795

Thanks again crellston! I had never used travelfish before. This village area sounds interesting. As you can see, you have influenced our plans!! Love this forum.

The reason we are going so quickly to Sapa after arrival has to do with the best dates we could get award mile tickets. Not ideal, but I think we'll be able to sleep at least some. Don't want to miss the Bac Ha Market.

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