Need help with China itinerary
 

We are a couple from India, aged 50ish, wishing to travel to China in May 2009. We dislike taking tours, and would rather travel on our own. This would be our first trip to China. We plan on taking flights for all internal travel in China.

We plan on starting our trip on Friday, May 8th. Would the May 1 holiday rush be over by then ? If not, we could postpone by a week. Here is the tentative itinerary, on which we seek your suggestions.

Day 1: Arrive at Shanghai in early afternoon
Day 2: Shanghai
Day 3: Shanghai
Day 4: Shanghai
Day 5: Fly from Shanghai to Xian
Day 6: Xian
Day 7: Xian
Day 8: Fly from Xian to Beijing
Day 9: Beijing
Day 10: Beijing
Day 11: Beijing
Day 12: Fly from Beijing to Guilin
Day 13: Guilin - Yangshao - Guilin
Day 14: Fly from Guilin to Hong Kong
Day 15: Hong Kong
Day 16: Hong Kong
Day 17: Evening flight back to India

Please let us know if we should add any more destinations, and if the time budgeted at each place is appropriate.

Thanks in advance.

Travel patterns are changing with the re-organisation of national holidays and the introduction of limited discretionary holiday. Traditionally the leisure travel season begins at the beginning of May, and while the sense that at least half the country was on the move during the first week of May has gone away, there are still many people who add discretionary days to the now shorter national holiday. Delaying one week would do no harm.

As for the remainder, personally I'd knock a day off Shanghai, and wouldn't bother with Guilin or Yangshuo at all, but choose another more genuinely Chinese rural destination. Indeed, I wouldn't bother with Shanghai if I were also visiting Beijing and Hong Kong, but perhaps travel Beijing--Xi'an--rural destinations in the southwest--Hong Kong. Much depends on your interest in culture, historic sites, scenery, 'real' China, etc.

Peter N-H

I just got back from 2 weeks in China. I think you have way too many places to visit in 14 days unless of course you like being on the go all the time and not seeing a city in much depth.

I would do less time in Shanghai or as Peter says, don't do Shanghai at all. Spend more time in Beijing.

Traveling on your own is a great idea, I did that also, but if I were to do it again I would hire a guide for at least part of my time in each city for a day or 2.

I would also purchase internal airline tickets before you go unless you are staying at higher end hotels.

Hi,
Maybe start in Beijing first. As you have Shanghai as you first stop it seems you are doubling back a bit.
As everyone else has said you could take a day out of Shanghai. Also Xian as well. Just a thought but to cut down you really only need 1 night ( 2 at the most ) in Xian.
If you delete a day in Shanghai & Xian you would have time to visit Hangshou which is short train ride from Shanghai & really worth seeing.
Your Guilin - Yangshuo sounds a bit rushed to give it justice.
Perhaps when you arrive in Guilin head straight for Yangshuo and spend the 2 nights there and then head to the Guilin airport for your flight to Hong Kong.
So:
Day 1: Arrive Beijing
Days 2 - 4: Beijing
Day 5: Morning fly Xian
Day 6: Spend day at warriors & parts of Xian. Catch night train to Shanghai
Day 7: Morning arrive Shanghai
Day 8 & 9: Shanghai
Day 10: Morning train to Hangzhou.
Day 11: Afternoon -Fly Hangzhou to Guilin & head straight to Yangshuo.
Day 12: Yangshuo
Day 13: Yangshuo to Guilin airport & head to Hong Kong
Day 14 - 17: This leaves you either days to spend in Hong Kong or you could add another day to any of the above cities.
Hope this helps,
Annie:)

Thanks for your inputs. Some questions:
1. Peter N H : Can you suggest some suitable destinations in the southwest ? Please bear in mind that we are vegetarians, and are apprehensive about straying away from the "touristy" cities, if finding veg food is going to be a big issue.
2. Lollylo25 : The planned trip is for 17 days (not 14). And although it is a bit rushed, I guess we are accustomed to this pace. I doubt if we will get another opportunity to visit China. Your suggestion of hiring local guides for some days is a good one, and one that we shall certainly take up.
3.Annieandh: You have a valid point about starting from Beijing and working our way down. Unfortunately, direct flights from India are only for Shanghai or Hong Kong, and the total fare cost works out much cheaper doing the circuit we have planned, rather than starting from Beijing. However, we could easily cut off a day each from Shanghai and Xian. Where should we add it to ? Is Hangzhou doable as a day trip from Shanghai ? Should we add a day to Guilin/Yangshuo ? Or to Hongkong or Beijing ? We would like to limit the number of "base stations" to 5, as otherwise it becomes too much of shifting around with luggage.

I found a full day in Shanghai sufficient. The same with Xian.

There are a number of China Travel Bureaus about. They speak English and are very helpful.

Buy a Lonely Planet guide.

Hi,
It is best not to do Hangzhou as a day trip from Shanghai. It is doable but there is so much to see your visit would be a bit rushed. If you are looking at day trips from Shanghai best stick to Suzhou, Tongli or Xitang.
And I know what you mean about limiting your overnight stays to only a few cities. It is tempting to include more but you will then find your self spending lots of wasted time in airports & train stations. So that is a wise move.
In the Southwest is the Sichuan region with cities such as Chengdu, the Yunnan region & Guizhou / Guangxi which has minority villages. I believe you will have no trouble in Chengdu finding Vegetarian food but don't know about the other areas, sorry.
Annie

Cyberia, I have bought a Lonely Planet guidebook for China. However, I have found that the best suggestions comes from Fodorites.

Annieandh, I did go through the Hangzhou section in the guidebook, and it sounds great. I know it justifies more than a day trip, but I guess we will cover it as a day trip, to avoid too much moving around. Then we don't need to remove a day from Shanghai, as a day will go in the Hangzhou trip.

We still have to accomodate the one day that we are knocking off from Xian. Should we add it to Guilin/Yangshuo ? Or should we scrap Guilin in favor of Chengdu ?

I guess it depends what you like seeing. We are going to both places in April. You could probably look on some of the trip reports & ask the people who have done both.
Chengdu has the Pandas & tibetan neighborhoods & Yangshuo the scenery.
It's hard to make a decision when there is so much to see.
You could always spend more time in Beijing as there is so much to see. We love Beijing & could easily spend a whole holiday there!

Thanks annie for your comments. I will read some trip reports and make up my mind, as you suggested. Meanwhile, more suggestions are welcome.

Have just spent close to a month in China as a solo traveler, am in my 60's

Shanghai is an edgy city. I would only give it two days, then I live in NYC. Go to Souzhou and spend a few days there explore the gardens and perhaps make day trips to the water towns e.g. Tongli. Also explore Hangshuo

Unfortunately I only had 1 day in Xian and feel that it deserves more, I could have stayed there for 2-3 day.

Beijing 5 - 6 days easily

If you want to go to Guilin and Yangshou You need at least 4 days. I am sorry that I missed Guilin and went straight to Yangshou. What I have since heard is that there is much to see in Guilin.

I have posted my trip report Nywoman in China mentioning several of the places you want to visit.

Hi Nywoman,
Thanks for posting your trip report as it was very helpful. Sounds like you had a wonderful journey:)
We are going straight to Yangshuo too but do you think it is worth at least one night in Guilin?
I have read they have a wonderful night scene / food / market near the South city gate & wonder if it is worth staying to experience that.
Annie.

INDIANCOUPLE:

I agree with Annie regarding the order. I think it will cut down on your travel time.

We did 2 weeks in China and booked with a local Chinese company and had a guide and driver in every destination. We loved China and did an itinerary not far different from what Annie suggests but in the reverse order. It was just the 2 of us and we enjoyed the interation with the guides who were all young, mostly single, and spoke good English.

Here's my web page about this trip. Maybe it will help you in your planning.

http://www.travel.stv77.com/china/china.htm

Thanks everyone for your comments. Here is a revised itinerary:
Day 1: Arrive at Shanghai in early afternoon
Day 2: Shanghai
Day 3: Day trip to Hangzhou
Day 4: Day trip to Tongli
Day 5: Fly from Shanghai to Xian
Day 6: Xian
Day 7: Fly from Xian to Beijing
Day 8: Beijing
Day 9: Beijing
Day 10: Beijing
Day 11: Fly from Beijing to Guilin
Day 12: Guilin/Yangshuo
Day 13: Guilin/Yangshuo
Day 14: Fly from Guilin to Hong Kong
Day 15: Hong Kong
Day 16: Hong Kong
Day 17: Evening flight back to India

Does this itinerary make more sense ? Also, we had some more specific questions :
1. Should one stay in Guilin or Yangshuo ? How far are the terraced rice fields from Yangshuo ?
2. Where should one contact to get local guides in China - we do not want their assistance in booking hotels, just to accompany us on some of the days for sightseeing ?

The itinerary makes sense, and in any case it's not much different from the original itinerary.

The area with the rice fields near Gulilin is called Longsheng and are about a 3 hour drive from Guilin. You will be there at the best time of the year (April-May).

We enjoyed staying in the city of Guilin. It's a big city with lots of facilities and a nice pedestrian shopping area. Yangshou is the favorite of backpackers and is a little town with great scenery.

You can book guides at almost every hotel, although they may be more expensive when booked thru the hotel.

If you can tell me where you want to book guides, I have the names and contact info for a few which I can send you.

sssteve, thanks for your response. I guess we will require guides in almost all of the cities in our itinerary (though not for every day). Plan to use a guide at Shanghai for the day trips to Hangzhou and Tongli, a guide at Xian for one day, a guide at Beijing for 2 days, and at Guilin for a day. We are not looking for guides with private cars. Plan to use taxis or public transport. Just looking for English speaking guides to assist us on some days. How much do such guides cost typically ?

Would really appreciate your sending us contact info for such guides.

I will send you some information as soon as I can find it.

In the meantime, you can get in touch with the company I used - "China Connection". They can arrange as little or as much as you want and wherever you want. All the guides they arranged for us were just fine.

Here's their URL:
http://www.china-tour.cn/

I have been to the three places you mentioned. I think it will be better for you to visit in this itinerary:
Shanghai-Beijing-Xian-Guilin-Hong-Kong.
Good luck!

Your best bet is to start contacting a variety of guides now and tell them what you want to do.
Approx depending on which city & what you are doing about RMB100-200 per day for an unofficial guide to show you around. You will need to pay their entrance fees etc.

Could anyone recommend names and contact details of some unofficial private guides in Beijing, Shanghai, Xian and Guilin ? Would highly appreciate it.

Indiancouple:

In XIAN:
clarence guo [email protected]

In Guilin:
Jenny Tan
[email protected]

In Beijing:
Jerry Ju
[email protected]

In Beijing:
Terry
[email protected]

Terry is the only one we actually used. The others had good reccomendations from Fodors members, and we were in touch with them via email but didn't use them in the end.

sssteve, thanks a lot for the contact details. I will start getting in touch with these people. Any more recommendations from anyone ?

> Any more recommendations from anyone ?

Yes, please read this thread:

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=35169441

Be particularly cautious of the gentleman in Xi'an, a long-time spammer of this site, The Oriental-List, and elsewhere on the Internet.

Peter N-H

Peter NH, I had read that thread earlier. You have a point of view, which is well taken, but many others have a different point of view, and have immensely benefited from availing the services of a guide.

We would like to use a guide for some days. To repeat our question, could people recommend more contacts for guides in Shanghai, Beijing, Guilin and Xian ?

I would put in a very strong recommendation to visit Longshen rice fields from Guilin. It is a great day trip with unforgettable sights (not just the rice fields themselves but the trip there as well). The "Dragon back" is one of the most impressive visual experiences I have encountered not only in China but anywhere - just IMO.
You may also enjoy a Li river cruise.

I originally contacted the guide in Xian and later decided to do Xian on my own. I was very glad I did. Compared to his prices, our day trip to the Warriors was a steal. In my opinion, there is no need for a guide in Xian. We took the bus from the train station to the warriors and back again. Only a few dollars each way. Met some nice people on the bus and ended up having dinner with them that night.


If you get to Yangshuo, you can contact my guide, Juan. She was great!! Charges 100RMB/day for two people and we had her all day for 3 days. Email her at [email protected] Tell her I said hello!

You can read my journal here:
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=35166107

Have a great time!

Monica ((F))

Paulchili, a visit to Longshen Dragonbone rice fields is on top of our list, and so is the Li River cruise. I had a question about the Longshen rice fields. How tough is the hike to the top, where you get the best views ? Any less strenuous way of reaching there ? And how long is the drive from Guilin to the rice terraces ?
Monica, I have read your trip report in detail. Thanks for the tip about avoiding a guide in Xian. And will contact the reference you have given for Yangshuo.

indiancouple,
I am glad you will go to the Longji (Dragon Back) - you will not regret it.
It is a long way up. I am 60 and not in great shape and I did it - I am sure you can do it as well. Just take your time and rest along the way! Also, don't give up - you must go ALL the way to the top for best view. They have "sedan" chairs to take you up if your are not up to it (I don't know the price).
The trip there is about 2 hours or so (90 Km). We stopped to see the Yao ladies with long hair, stopped for lunch on the way back.
Make sure you visit the Shanghai museum on People's Square - need a few hours for that IMO.
Have a great trip - please post after if you can.

I thought you said you never mention the Oriental List on Fodors

"I thought you said you never mention the Oriental List on Fodors"

Hi hawaiiantraveler - how are you? Is this in reference to me?
If so, I only wish to stay clear of one particular poster, otherwise I don't mind helping others, if I can.
Aloha.

Hi Paulchili,Doing great! No not you. We all enjoy your knowledgeable and informative posts

Aloha!

hawaiiantraveler,
Thank you.
Happy travels and Aloha.

indiancouple, glad you enjoyed my trip report.

Just want to say that Reenie and I did both the Li River boat trip, as well as one on a bamboo raft on the Yulong River. Quite frankly, I enjoyed the bamboo raft much more than the motorized boat on the Li River.

I posted my photos taken along the Yulong River in Yangshuo: http://www.pileggiphotography.com/ga...32856484_ovmAT


Monica ((F))

indiancouple,
We were in China in October & would love to recommend the following guides who helped make our trip a memorable experience,were extremely knowledgable & personable,they became our friends & we wanted to bring them home:
Beijing: John [email protected]
Shanghai: Lee
[email protected]
Yangshuo: Lilly Lu
[email protected]

Monica, those photographs are wonderful. Cant wait to get there on the river cruise and the bamboo rafts.

Syl, many thanks for your contacts. I have emailed all of them. Awaiting their responses.

Monica, you are so right about Xian. No need for a guide at all. Save money everyone.

indian couple:


I agree with Monica (in fact I was the one who suggested that she forego the Xian guide, who had stood us up the year before...never showed after four or five emails confirming!). We hired a tax driver, a lovely young lady who took us to the warriors, waited two hours and drove us back to the Hyatt, picked us up to drive us to the airport the following day...all for much less than the guide would have charged.Having guides in Beijing and Guilin/Yangshuo makes sense..Shanghai, no need of it IMO.

Have a wonderful trip..

stu t.

tower, based on multiple suggestions from everyone, we have dropped the idea of taking guide at Xian.

For Guilin/Yangshuo, we have located a reasonable guide, and are fine-tuning our program in consultation with her.

I know we will not need a guide in Shanghai city. But we plan on making a day trip from there to Hangzhou, and one to either Suzhou or Tongli. Would you recommend taking a guide for these destinations, or is it perfectly doable by ourselves ?

As for Beijing, would you recommend a guide for the day we do the Great Wall, or the day when we tour Tiannemen, Forbidden City & Temple of Heaven ? Or both ?

We used guides in every city we toured because we felt that, with their excellent knowledge we were able to see as much as possible without worrying about logistics.(I also agree, however, that Xian is very doable on your own.)The main factor is your budget.I say, if you can afford a guide,go that route because you never know if & when you'll return to China.

> tower, based on multiple suggestions from everyone, we have dropped the idea of taking guide at Xian.

Could I just point out that the arguments presented against taking a guide in Xi'an apply equally to all other locations in China: that they are unreliable, unnecessarily expensive, that you can easily get around on your own, and that it is much cheaper to do so?

These are all equally true of Beijing, Shanghai, Yangshuo, etc. If you find these arguments compelling for one destination then you should find them compelling for all.

The thought expressed in the posting immediately above appears to be that guides are useful for logistics, and indeed if you don't want to have to think about navigation at all yourself, not even to the point of handing over the name of destination in characters to a taxi driver, then this is indeed true (of some guides at least). But you'll pay handsomely.

Some people, despite that fact that the guide adds no reliable historical or cultural information, is not to be trusted on shopping matters, and will overcharge (although I saw one reasonable fee quoted for Yangshuo), will want to go ahead anyway. The purpose of these remarks is only that those who do so should be clear on what they are getting for their money, which is not what would be expected from guides elsewhere.

Many things in China are discussed using familiar English terms, but do not in fact closely represent what we usually mean by these terms. 'News', 'concierge', and 'guide', are three examples.

Peter N-H