boycotting the Olympics might start in getting their attention

boycotting the Olympics or threatening to do so unless pressure is put on the junta might start in getting their attention is what I meant to say

HT,

I don't agree with boycotting the Olympics and we should keep politics out of sport if possible.

And it seems to me we shouldn't punish China because of Burma's government. If we want to boycott the olympics it should be because of something China has done.

But I also agree that sports and art should be above politics.

I found myself thinking about this thread all afternoon. Several people have commented that the junta wouldn't shoot the protestors because of the adverse publicity it would generate. But I kept thinking about Tianaman Square, and how people predicted the Chinese wouldn't shoot the protestors there because of the media attention. And I remember vividly the chanting at the Democratic National Convention in Chicago, 1968 when the demonstrators chanted "The whole world is watching" but it didn't keep the Chicago police from beattng the bleep out of the demonstrators.

I hope this will be different.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5g...diwxJDRPSnIkyA


Send those petitions-- they matter!

Kathie-- you're right. Thugs don't care about world opinion. I was at the 68 convention so remember well what thugs can do. However, in both instances the people injured or even killed were heroes because change eventually happened and I firmly believe that those instances were a major reason. Better to die for the freedom of your own country than what we are asking our soldiers to die for -- one huge mistake.

Here, here, Kathie. Exactly what I was thinking as well.

I don't think the Myanmar junta particularly cares who is watching.

Especially when they have nothing to lose.

If they think that this protest movement has actual legs (which it now does) the only thing that ensures their self-presevation and restores "order" is silencing loud voices quickly.

Unfortunately, history has shown us time and time again.

The next few days will be very important since there's now a curfew and a ban on gatherings and meetings in Yangon. To enforce this they have sent in 2 more divisions from the surrounding area. The Royal Thai air force have C130s transport on standby to help evacuate in case there will be bloodshed.

Interesting AP piece on the relations between China and Myanmar: tinyurl.com/34y9b2 The Guardian is also saying that China and India are more likely than European countries to have influence with the junta.

I already said that I don't expect the junta to pay attention to Western demands, but I found Kathie's mention of Tiananmen Square an interesting analogy.

I'm watching this pretty closely too, seeing as I'm there in three weeks.

If push comes to shove and violence comes - I wonder if a devoutly Buddhist soldier could bring himself to shoot a Buddhist monk.

Maybe I'm naive. But if the Army buckled at the front line because of religious sensibilities then the regime would REALLY be in trouble.

Then I saw this:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/bur...486379045.html

It seems that that after the beatings, "thousands" of monks and supporters resumed the protests and marched to the center.

The bravery of monks can never be underestimated, anymore than the brutal tactics of military police.

I am remembering films of Tibetan monks being beaten and killed by soldiers when the Chinese military swarmed over and destroyed many monasteries in 1959.

The Buddhist practice of sending loving kindness into the world under any circumstances is what we are watching. It is an unconditional practice at the heart of meditation.
As a Western Buddhist, I will keep them in my mind, it just breaks my heart to hear these stories.

This is a message from a youtube poster: "You can help. Phone the Myanmar Embassy in Washington, D.C. today to express your concern: (202) 332-3344. Be polite but firm -- let them know you are very worried at reports that their government may be planning to use violence against the monks and other demonstrators. Such calls, if firm but polite, may help protect the demonstrators by letting the Myanmar government know that the world is watching."

Very sad! They have started shooting and fatalities are being reported.

http://www.irrawaddy.org/ has frequent updates, photos and other news. Interesting site.

This is a very challenging time for Myanmar. My husband and I are traveling in Thailand and currently in our hotel we get about six international news programs. Channels ranging from BBC World, Fox News, Al Jazeera to RAI from Italy and DW-TV from Germany. All the news reports we are seeing are about the same. Tear gas is now being used on Buddhist monks and some beatings have also taken place. According to these news channels, about 20 monks have been arrested. I really hope change can take place without anyone else being hurt, but unfortunately I don't think that will happen. http://hobosinlovemedia.com

The irrawady link is not working for me, but there are posts from people saying they are in Myanmar here: news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7011884.stm

I am so sad it has come to this.

This could be China's chance to shine in the world's eyes - a great tactical move for China before the Olympics. If played right, one good deed right now could eclipse all the sketchy dealings in places like North Korea and Sudan.

Jeff,

The site is not down - it's over loaded! Keep trying you'll get through eventually.

The irrawaddy site is not working, which I expect means it has been blocked or taken down by the junta. One of the ways the junta maintains control is by controlling information flow within the country. A number of years ago, you may remember that the junta released ASSK for several months. She and her entourage were traveling in the north when they were attacked by government troops. A number of people in her entourage were killed (various reports put the numbers between 8 and 80). Travelers in the country at that time knew nothing of it until they left Burma.

I want to thank everyone for the great links so we can stay current with the situation.

Let us all send loving compassion to the monks, as well as firm protests to the Myanmar government.

Kathie,

I just got througt a minute or so ago so it's not blocked.

I'll copy and paste some of the main news here:

"SEVEN MONKS WERE REPORTEDLY KILLED; TROOPS FIRE ON CROWDS"

"Mandalay, Central Burma; Afternoon
Military troops fired warning shots and used tear gas in an effort to disperse tens of thousands of monks who marched through Burma's second largest city.."

"Ahlone Township, Rangoon; Afternoon
Three monks were reportedly shot by military and riot forces on Wednesday afternoon in Ahlone Township,.."

"Rangoon, Downtown; Mid-afternoon
Two monks and one nun were reportedly shot by military forces near Sule Pagoda on Wednesday afternoon, according to a witness."

Thanks, Hanuman. I'm glad to hear it asn't been blocked. The fact that the site is overloaded is a good sign, too.

The news is very sad, indeed.

I also got through to the irawaddy site but it took a long time to download.

"This could be China's chance to shine..."

Don't hold your breath. They've had no problem going into other countries and imposing their will (hey, that sounds familiar!) so I don't expect they'll actually grow a conscience overnight. I think the only thing that would compel China to act is if they could set up shop in Myanmar and figure a way to make more money there.

This is so sad. I want to believe someone will care enough to do something--but most of my fellow Westerners seem to be more concerned with the new iPhone than with what's going on in Myanmar. I actually mentioned this to a co-worker yesterday and he asked me 'Is that near Hawaii?'

That kinda says it all.

where's Hawaii? :P

hawaii is next to egypt....

Bob,

So you're the one who coached miss teen South Carolina!

did you see this?

http://tinyurl.com/2uos3a

Yes. makes it even more important to do whatever we can to let china know our opinions. I'm going to a demonstration of Friday in Chicago in front of the Chinese Consulate. Send your petition. Do whatever you can to give these people hope.

Also see http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/27/wo...yanmar.html?hp - dawn raids on at least two monasteries - beatings and arrests. Includes a picture of Shwedagon blanketed by tear gas.

I received the following e-mail this morning from the person at the agency I used to arrange my tour of Myanmar:

Dear all our friends in USA,
On behalf of all people in Myanmar, thank you so much indeed for your
concern on what happening in our country. We all know that US
Government and the people in US are our first and best friends, who
always want Myanmar People to get peace, to help us in every possible
way in establishing democracy and to educate how the human rights is
important to us. It is ashamed that the Myanmar dictators are brutally
defeating the innocent civilians who are peacefully claiming democracy
and equality, at the same time, when all the people around the world
are now globally trying to terminate the dictatorship and terrorism,
so that they totally be disappeared on our planet. We all know that US
Government and citizens are the most enthusiastic people to help all
of us in forming fairness in our country and all of us always welcome
to what the US Government and the people of US perform for the justice
of our nation. We have heard what the Mr. President and the First Lady
of US have expressed their concern on Myanmar People, which encouraged
us to speed up our demonstration. We shall never forget the kindness
of the people of US and their government and we thank all of the
leaders and people of other nations for their concerns on our home
affairs.
Gratefully yours,
Kyaw

At least someone still likes the USA...

an eyewitness account from the BBC... *shiver*

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7011884.stm

(At a monastery at midnight) The soldiers ran up to the first floor of the monastery and grabbed the head monk by the neck and dragged him downstairs. They beat up the other monks with batons and sticks. They kicked the sleeping novices to wake them up and ask them if any monks are hiding. The novices are shaking with fear. It is as if they are raiding a rebel camp. <i>Anonymous eyewitness, Rangoon</i>

My prayers for the safety of those who are still alive. To those brave ones who have been murdered, let's hope that their deaths will be the catalyst, bringing about those same freedoms that they stood up to promote.

I'm finding this live update gripping:

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/news/200..._thursday.html

One can hope that the spirit of the Burmese people will overcome the repressive regime. The forces of change are strong and inevitable, but they can be diverted. As noted in prior posts, this will be an opportunity to see if the Chinese government will take the longer view of geopolitics or the easier shorter view. Hope springs eternal...

&quot;We have heard what the Mr. President and the First Lady of US have expressed their concern on Myanmar People, which encouraged us to speed up our demonstration.&quot; O dear....

The BBC is reporting &quot;several deaths&quot; including possibly a Japanese citizen. I do so hope this will work, and there will be a Saffron Revolution, but I'm not hopeful.

Thursdaysd - What do you mean by &quot;O dear...&quot;?

Thursdaysd, Ha! You definitely deserve the quote of the day award!

<i>&quot;I do so hope this will work, and there will be a Saffron Revolution, but I'm not hopeful.&quot;</i>

This paradox perfectly sums up the uncertainty of the situation, as well as all of our feelings about it.

baaj - thanks! (blush)

craig - &quot;What do you mean by &quot;O dear...&quot;?&quot; I mean that launching or intensifying a revolutionary action in Myanmar on the basis of a speech by a Bush, or even two Bushes, is not a very good idea. I don't think anything Bush is likely to do will have any impact on the junta, as I said above. I also have memories of the 1991 uprising in Iraq....