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Japan Trip 3 - Initial Loose Planning
Hey Folks
My plan is to head back to Japan next spring for our third trip, hopefully for at least three weeks, possibly for four. I'd very much love to see sakura at its peak but don't want to follow it for the entire itinerary as I think the crowds and the higher prices may get too much. The most urgent aspect is to pin down dates, as I want to book airmile tickets again so need to book pretty soon, from previous experience. We could look at going into any international airport, or even open jaw. But want to pin this down soon, even if itinerary isn't sorted. On our first trip we visited Tokyo (start and end), Takayama (for the autumn festival), Nara, Kyoto, Osaka, Koyasan and Hiroshima/ Miyajima. That was a 17 night itinerary in Sept/ Oct 2012. On our second trip in Oct/ Nov 2013 we had 19 nights of which a couple were in Tokyo, 6 in Kyoto, a couple in Osaka and then an 8 night Kyushu trip starting in Kumamoto and self-driving. Our overnights were Kumamoto, Kurakawa Onsen, Yufuin and Fukuoka (2 nights each) but we also visited Aso, the Buddhas in Usuki, Takachiho Gorge and the reclining Buddha at Nanzō-in Temple near Fukuoka. I think we'd like to go back to Kyoto, there's still plenty we haven't seen and I'm thinking maybe a self-catering apartment or a machiya... We haven't been to either Nikko or Hakone. Or Kanazawa. I've previously looked loosely at Tohoku / Hokkaido. Or we could look at Chubu & Hokuriku / Tohoku. Or maybe Shikoku / Chugoku. Or we could do southern Kyushu plus Okinawa, though we're not beach lovers so I'd need to research more on whether that would be a good fit for us. I'm at that stage of needing some friendly nudging and maybe having some questions thrown at me that may help me narrow down. I'd also appreciate thoughts on how to set the dates to hit sakura in one or two spots but avoid it / the sakura crowds for the rest. THANK YOU so much! Kavey I'd like to include self-drive again, provided it's in a similarly rural region with quiet roads, like Kyushu. Am happy to use trains for the rest. |
We haven't traveled as extensively in Japan as you have, but we did visit both Kanazawa and Hakone.
In Kanazawa, we stayed in a machiya arranged by KimJapan who is a travel agent in Kanazawa [email protected] She was just marvelous! We very much enjoyed the machiya. She may well be able to book one for you in Kyoto as well. Whether you like Hakone will depend a lot on the weather. We had absolutely spectacular views of Fuji-san and we stayed in a lovely place - the Hyatt. Not at all a "corporate hotel" experience, it was just fabulous. We'd go back in a heartbeat. Our photos of these two places might be helpful in your decision-making http://www.marlandc.com/Japan-2013 Happy planning! We had the koyo for our first visit and look forward to planning a second visit to see the sakura. |
I envy you your trip, Kavey -- I know it will be wonderful!
"We haven't been to either Nikko or Hakone. Or Kanazawa." I haven't been to Hakone. I really enjoyed Nikko and thought it much better suited to an overnight than to a day-trip. That gives you time to see Kegon-no-Taki and a bit of Lake Chuzenji. http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e3812.html And I adored Kanazawa. I gave it less than 2 days, and wish I had given it at least 3 full days if not more. |
We visited Hakone as a day trip from Tokyo, leaving early in the morning via the Romance Car and returning by 8PM for dinner. This worked well for us. We spent 3 days in Kanazawa and loved being there, despite the rain for half of the time. We went to the garden in Kanazawa on 2 separate occasions. Be prepared for lots of walking. The gardens are extensive and beautiful. There are some interesting museums and neighborhoods in Kanazawa as well. We have not been to Nikko, but hope to go on our next trip to Japan.
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Thank you kind friends, a good start to get my research going.
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If planning for next year 2016 in Japan spring very much keep in mind the El Nino that is happening in the Pacific as we type and the effect it will have on the season...
A machiya in Kyoto is a real plus and one ideally located is even better. As you know we used Avi and Wendy who can be contacted here: https://www.kyotomachiyastay.com/index.php/en/ I have written reports on starting in the south of Japan and ending up in northern part of Japan during the cherry blossoms. Please check them out. Staying in rural areas and more mountainous regions during the blossom season will get you better pricing and still keep you a train ride away from blossom viewing if you want. I can't impress upon you enough how much more scenic Northern Tohoku is and how a stop off at places like Yamadera, Tazawako, Towadako, Matsushima and others are a must to a Japan traveler. Good luck! Aloha! |
Brilliant, thanks HT!
Can I be cheeky and ask if you have your trip reports bookmarked and could possibly give a list of direct links? No worries if not. x |
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>> Nikko or Hakone. Or Kanazawa ... Tohoku / Hokkaido. Or ... Chubu & Hokuriku / Tohoku. Or maybe Shikoku / Chugoku. Or we could do southern Kyushu plus Okinawa,
That means you want to go to Japan, just maybe not San-in, Kansai, or Kanto regions. |
Yeah, MrWunrfl you've nailed it, though I would like to go back to Kyoto for a week, so Kansai is likely in!
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Kavey,
So glad your going to be able to return to Japan for a springtime trip. I'm currently working on our return trip as well and will post the rough itinerary of where we would like to go with the intention you might have similar interests. If you do arrive in Tokyo, going to Nikko would be easy. I believe we stayed in Tokyo a few days on arrival, then to Nikko for two nights and our next leg took us all the way to Kagoshima, stopping in Tokyo only to change trains, all with the rail pass. I agree with kja that an overnight in Nikko is preferable. Nothing like being able to get up early and stay late to be able to walk through the sights uncrowded that will be teeming after 10:00. I'd go further to say that a stay at the Kanaya Hotel is worth it as part of the Nikko experience , a historic building quite close to the bridge and entrance. The trip up to the lake, falls and wetlands was a good outing for us the second day. Hakone is a lot of fun and easily accessible from Tokyo We stayed at the Fujiya, another historic old hotel and did the standard circuit. Right now volcanic activity has closed some Hakone areas Kanazawa now more easily accessed by train from Tokyo. So Tokyo / Nikko / Kanazawa / Fukui to see Eiheiji?........., coastline by car through Tottori and Shimane, Mt Daisen/Matsue/Izumo Shrine/ Iwami Ginzan Silver Mine/Hagi/Nagasaki. then back to rail for Kyoto and departure?Then again you could head north from Kanazawa.... :-) These are some ideas for an itinerary. You'll h ave to coordinate these sights with the sakura season, late mid or early. Weather will be warmer south which is a consideration. A blog I follow that gives a lot of travel cultural information is More Glimpses of Unfamiliar Japan http://ojisanjake.blogspot.com/ Looking forward to seeing how your trip shapes up |
"I'd also appreciate thoughts on how to set the dates to hit sakura in one or two spots but avoid it / the sakura crowds for the rest."
Consider planning a southward route. |
I've got some grouped places I am attracted to, many from HT's reports...
* Hakodate Sapporo -- Hirosaki (if we can time it right) Kakunodate Tsuru-no-yu Onsen Other Tohoku places TBC -- * Kanazawa Gokayama or Shirakawa-go (perhaps combine with return to Takayama) -- * Nikko Mashiko (for pottery) Karuizawa (this one dependent on a potential invitation) -- Tokyo Kawagoe Kamakura * Hakone -- Chugoku region (still to read more / identify potential stops) -- Shikoku region (thus far, only identified return to Miyajima + Matsuyama but not read much yet) With four weeks to play with, and knowing that we prefer not to pack too much into any given day, we are happy on trains, trams, buses or to self-drive, whatever is best for a particular area... ... would anyone have a stab at potential itineraries? Not including the entirety of the above, I think that would be too much. I'd say it would be either Hokkaido plus a couple of places in either Chugoku or Shikoku or we could skip Hokkaido and do a few more nights in Chugoku and/or Shikoku. And HT I know you have a huge personal interest in meteorology, and that you therefore study global currents, wind, etc movements and identify potential impacts on weather patterns. I'd be grateful for your input on hitting cherry blossom. Obviously, I'd never hold you responsible if we miss them, but given that the Japanese don't release their forecasts for next spring for ages yet, any potential headsup from a Japan-traveller that I trust would be enormously welcome. Could do Skype chat some time if that would be easier... |
(I've missed Kyoto out because although I'm drawn to returning there, I don't know that it makes the most sense for this trip given that we did almost a week there first trip and same again second trip and there's so much more to see in the rest of Japan).
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Right, so here is where I'm at now...
I can't find any information that would allow me to guestimate whether koyo might be earlier or later than usual in 2016, or none that I'm able to comprehend anyway, so I'm going to have to base on this year's timetable... That gives me a two week window of last week March first week of April for peak viewing in Central Japan -- Tokyo Kyoto areas and between. So if I schedule a four week trip across last two weeks of March and first two weeks of April, going North to South, I have a good chance of hitting the peak in one location or another. Upsides of that schedule are that it's well ahead of Golden Week. Downsides are that it may be really rather cold up in Northern Japan, and presumably, correspondingly shorter/ darker days as well? If we start in Hokkaido: Penultimate week of March - Hokkaido Last week of March - Tohoku / Kanazawa First week of April - Tokyo environs (Nikko/ Hakone etc) Second week of April - TBC (Kyoto, or skip Kyoto and continue South) IF Koyo is to 2015 timings, we have zero chance in Hokkaido and Kanazawa but decent chance in Tokyo environs, possibly tail end of blossoms in last week. If Koyo is earlier than 2015 then we could see it in Kanazawa but not in Tokyo. If Koyo is later than 2015 then we might see it in that second week of April when we're either in Kansai or a bit further south. Is this how I should be thinking or am I completely losing the plot? The other potential itinerary might be: Penultimate week of March - Tohoku / Kanazawa Last week of March - Tokyo environs (Nikko/ Hakone etc) First week of April - Kansai Second week of April - Further South TBC So I'd need to do similar calc on that as I did above... (HT, you mentioned the El Nino in the Pacific that is happening right now, if you have any thoughts on how that might affect the koyo season, I'd be immensely grateful). |
Kavey - I think you are confusing yourself...you mention koyo - that is fall foliage. You don't mean to go in the fall but in the spring for sakura, right?
Assuming that's so as your other posts mention, I don't quite understand why you want to go from north to south in which case you almost definitely will be too early for any sakura up north....wouldn't south to north the same way the sakura bloom more or less be better? I don't know about ht's forecast for 2016, however, one idea I have had in the past was to review the japan-guide's extensive annual Cherry Blossom reports: http://www.japan-guide.com/blog/sakura15/ |
Mara wrote: "I don't quite understand why you want to go from north to south" -- I had actually suggested that, in light of Kavey's statement, "I'd also appreciate thoughts on how to set the dates to hit sakura in one or two spots but avoid it / the sakura crowds for the rest."
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So you did, kja.....I get it now....
However, I have been to Japan a number of times and have seen sakura in a variety of places - usually the crowds are manageable except in a few really popular places.... |
IMO, Kavey should listen to Mara, not me!
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Dear God. Thats what comes of writing late at night, of course I meant sakura not koyo.
SORRY! And yes, I've reviewed the blossom reports on Japan Guide a lot, but my thing is if we go South to North and the blossom is running early or late, we miss it along the entire itinerary. If we go North to South, we should hit it at peak somewhere, even though it would be waaaay too early in the north! |
Let me work on it and get back to you in a bit.
Aloha! |
Thanks so much HT! Aloha!
We have a development. My dad is our airmile booking guru. I asked him to start looking at booking flights, either for mid March to mid April or late March to late April. To our surprise, he could find virtually zero seats available already. In the end, he held an option on the only available options he could get anywhere within that period. Outbound 29th March (landing 30th) and return 27th April (TOKYO) Outbound 6th April (landing 7th) and return 5th May (TOKYO) We really wanted to avoid Golden Week so I've asked him to confirm the first option there. That gives us our 4 weeks on the ground, but slightly later than we'd originally planned. HT, I'd still enormously value your input on weather patterns and how they may impact on blossom timings as we'll need to completely review the order in which we visit places to cater to the new dates. THANKS Kavey |
* Kanazawa
Gokayama or Shirakawa-go (perhaps combine with return to Takayama) ] Shirakawa-go is a day trip in MHO. Since you have been to Takayama the Hilda Village is more or less the same only smaller than SKG, and a lot less crowded. Bus runs between Kanazawa and Takayama you can hop off visit and take a later bus takes appx 2 hours each way. |
Very surprised you can't find award seats -- going LHR to Tokyo and return? Which airline's mileage are you using, and which class are you looking for?
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DonTopaz,
It's all booked now, but thanks for offer to help! Nearly all the dates were blocked out but it may be because we're doing via codeshare - BA flights using AA miles. All sorted now anyway! SO EXCITED! Joanne, thank you, we didn't make it to the Hida Village in Takayama last time so good to have that as an option. Thanks for the idea! |
I'd still love some help on planning an itinerary now we have our dates locked in.
Perhaps our best bet is to start in Tokyo environs (Tokyo, Nikko, Yokahama and Hakone) since we arrive on 30th March which would normally be peak blossom in Tokyo. We could then go to Kanazawa and on into Tohoku (and possibly southern Hokkaido). Then around abouts 16th/ 17th skip southwards to either Chugoku or Shikoku for 10 days, perhaps we can give ourselves a few days in Kyoto, perhaps we reserve the entirety of the 10 days for Kyoto. We do have to get back up to Tokyo at the end as we didn't manage to get an open jaw (not least because I didn't know what itinerary I'd settle on and there weren't award seats left to wait longer). |
Joanne, thank you, we didn't make it to the Hida Village in Takayama last time so good to have that as an option. Thanks for the idea!
Public bus runs runs up there about every 1/2 hour ditto return to T. station. If you go a little later in day mid-morning on there are crafts people working in various houses and be sure to get your stamp they have a booth just inside to stamp your passport or temple book or ticket which makes a nice memory. |
I loved Hida no Sato! And it's just a short walk from the Hida Takayama Museum of Art, with its stunning collection of glass art and Macintosh interior design and various Art Nouveau and Art Deco treasures.
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We hadn't planned to go back to Takayama on this trip, so not sure on whether we'd do Hida no Sato or not at this stage...
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As I mentioned earlier, we have 4 weeks on the ground, landing in Tokyo on 30th March and departing Tokyo 27th April.
Hakone ======= I'm going to book Hakone in right at the beginning - thinking either one or two nights in Tokyo after landing followed immediately by two nights in Hakone. So we'd hit Hakone on either 31st March or 1 April, which should be good for blossom, if it follows 2015 timetable. I've already sent a reservation enquiry for Hakone Ginyu through, not expecting to hear back until early to mid next week - I did this via Japanese Guest Houses as the Ryokan Collection website is flaky as heck when I try and view availability let alone book directly. I also feel more confident in terms of asking questions about what we are being offered if I go via JGH. Does my timing sound sensible? And does anyone have any thoughts on the difference between lower and higher floor rooms? The floor 1 rooms have the benefit of the adorable private gardens and a lower price, though of course, they don't give one that incredible view, like the 3rd or 4th floor ones. Also, given the expense, would it make more sense to do only 1 night in Hakone? Or 2 night in posh ryokan and one in a budget hotel (if such a thing exists)? Tohoku vs Chubu / Kanto ======================== Tohoku ------- I've been reading trip reports here and elsewhere, Japan Guide and random web meandering and am still struggling to pin down where to go. In Tohoku my two main draws are Hirosaki (very blossom driven) and Tsurunoyu Onsen (for a more traditional outdoor, specifically mixed gender onsen experience). Kakunodate is only am medium-level draw - the samurai houses are the only key attraction for me there and I'm not sure that's enough. Morioka briefly held my attention for its noodle notoriety, but again, don't think that's enough. I'd love to visit Yamadera but realistically there's no way I'll manage the 1000+ steps up the mountainside to reach the key sights. Sendai looks like a cool city to visit but again, little in the way of must-see attractions, though it's not far from there to Nikka's Miyagikyo Distillery, which does appeal. Chubu ------ Another option, instead of northern Tohoku, which I'm very likely completely under-appreciating, is to explore Chubu in more depth. The more I look at this region, the more and more I'm drawn to it... We could readily rent a car for some segments and drive around the local villages in Shirakawaga, there are several that are not the obvious tourist ones, such as Suganuma, Ainokura and nearby Gokayama Onsen. And there seem to be many towns that are worthy of one or two night stops? I loved reading HT's reports with Tohoku content. Could anyone direct me (links particularly helpful) to posts/ reports that feature content on any of the Chubu prefectures - that's Niigata, Nagano, Toyama, Ishikawa, Fukui, Gifu, Aichi, Shizuoka and Yamanashi? Signed, Madame Analysis-Paralysis x |
I don't know about any trip reports but two other interesting places in the Chubu area imo are Gujo Hachiman and the Tateyama Kurobe Alpine route....
I spent a week in Tohoku this spring - there is a lot to see and do there for sure... A difficult decision...... |
Our room was on the 4th floor (Keifu) and the view was gorgeous We generally prefer a higher floor, so for us it was the right choice (not that we had a choice, but lucky us that this was the only remaining room). There was both an indoor and outdoor tub AND two balconies adjacent to the outdoor tub (one was open and the other was enclosed). There were two bathrooms. I mean, the room was incredible. It was quite expensive but the yen has fallen even further since last year
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Mara
Thanks, yes Gujo Hachiman appeals on numerous levels. Tateyama Kurobe Alpine too, though I notice we won't be able to self-drive through it, but still would be cool to visit. I think with Tohoku, one of the aspects that's steering me away is that many of the sites I'm looking at are of more appeal to hikers and those who enjoy adventure/ outdoor activities, which is definitely not me. But I'll review again for sure. FromDC, yes rate of Yen drop is making prices very reasonable, though I have no idea what it will be by next April, it could recover quite a bit in that time, potentially... We had an indoor and an outdoor tub in our room at Sanga ryokan, which was amazing. |
since you are thinking of renting a car that opens up a lot. Have you thought about driving the Romantic Road? Onsen,scenery,Japanese countryside,three different prefectures in Japan...
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e7450.html Aloha! |
I have indeed, I have bookmarked that very page! :-)
I'm currently struggling to pull ALL the myriad Chubu places I want to visit into some kind of coherent itinerary, it's a NIGHTMARE! But fun at the same time. Well, at the moment it's defeating me but I WILL FIND A WAY! :-D |
I went along the Romantic Road as far as Fukiware no Taki at the end of October a year or so ago. The scenery was very good and Fukiware is a very unusual waterfall (Google for images). The koyo was in full force. In the other direction, Utsunomiya is the gyoza capitol of Japan.
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Oooh now you're talking, Someotherguy, I love gyoza. And good to know more about the Romantic Road. You drove too, I assume?
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Yes, I rented a car from Nissan at Nikko ekimae. There's also a Nippon rentacar across the street. I used Tocoo to set up the rental--I've used them many times with no difficulties.
You mention the Alpine Route and I've also been along that, as far as Murodo, to see the snow corridor. I went the day after it opened (which was 16 April) and it was pretty busy with Chinese tour groups, but an interesting trip. You cannot drive it yourself at that time of year but there's a highly organized train/bus/funicular system. The main hassle is the infrequent and amazingly slow train out of Toyoma. The tour groups come in by bus and join at the funicular. |
are you considering Kyushu too? Almost forgot about this we saw one year long ago....
https://images.search.yahoo.com/yhs/...=yhs-fh_lsonsw Aloha! |
someotherguy Yes we used Toocoo to set up our car rental for Kyushu in 2013, would use them again.
Thanks for the info on the Alpine route. HT, not considering Kyushu this time, though I've seen photos of that same place, with the wisteria gardens. There is lots more we want to visit in Kyushu but we'll do that another time. And I'm now 100% that we'll combine northern Tohoku with Hokkaido at a different time of year, rather than combine northern Tohoku with this trip and leave Hokkaido for later. I think northern Tohoku logistically fits better for us with Hokkaido. x |
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