japan tour question
 

have a trafalgar classic japan trip upcoming in early november - 10 days - tokyo, kyoto, hiroshima, osaka

arriving a day early so will have a free day/night in tokyo before the trip starts (new otani hotel)
also trip ends in Osaka but we fly in and out of HND so will need to get a train from Osaka to Tokyo then from Tokyo to HND
is it worth it to upgrade to first class on the Nozomi Shinkansen ($212 vs $166 on the website)

we are both mid 60s in average shape, any comments, tips, advice?

Have you already booked your tour? I ask because it is incredibly easy to travel independently in Japan.

Personally, I would not upgrade to 1st class. YMMV. Here's more information:
https://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2018.html
https://www.seat61.com/Japan.htm

My best bit of advice for traveling in Japan: Study japan-guide.com. It's a truly outstanding resource.

Enjoy!

Regarding first class vs ordinary on the train, I think everyone values the tradeoff differently so it's a bit of a personal decision. For our part (we're also in our mid-60s), we rode in the green car last year and will likely do it again on our upcoming November trip. Our younger selves would never have done this, but at our current stage in life, we're perfectly fine prioritizing comfort over our pocketbook. Of course, the difference isn't nearly as dramatic as the difference between economy and business on an international flight, but then again the additional cost is also much more modest.

If you are concerned about whether first class (called Green Car) is worth it, then you must the be having thoughts concerning the price.
You mentioned the price on "the website" but that is with the tour agent's site, correct? So they would also be charging you a booking fee.
Well, do note that a Shinkansen ticket from Shin-Osaka Station to Shinagawa Station (for HND transfer) is 14,920 yen for a reserved seat in a regular car, or 19,790 yen for a seat in the first class Green Car.
Today's exchange rate is 147 yen per US dollar, so those prices are $101 and $134 respectively.
And from Shinagawa to Haneda, if you ride the Shinkansen to Tokyo, you then get a free local transfer onto a JR train to use within Tokyo which you can use to get to Haneda.
(FYI, you can only buy train tickets up to one month in advance either online or in person, and if buying in advance online, you will probably need to pay an extra service fee of maybe about 1500 to 2500 yen per ticket).
There are plenty of resources online for how to use and buy Shinkansen Tickets. As mentioned above, Japan-Guide is a good start:
https://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2018.html

Take a plane, not the train.
 

Since you want to get to HND, it will be cheaper and more convenient to fly. There's one or more direct flights ITM-HND every hour.
ITM (Itami) is Osaka's downtown airport. Don't confuse it with the more distant KIX (it's the same setup as HND vs NRT).

You can fly from Osaka Itami to Haneda for JPY 17,290 $118 in J-class or 32690 $222 in first class or 10,190 $70 in economy. Domestic Japan flights/airports are easy to use.

Taking the shinkansen has some entertainment value.

>> is it worth it to upgrade to first class on the Nozomi Shinkansen ($212 vs $166 on the website)

Not to me. It is a matter of comfort, not the $. There was not enough legroom for me. The legs or post or whatever you call the thing that supports the seat in front was right where I wanted to put my feet. I was able stretch out and squeeze one foot between the post and wall. Am sure it is fine for a Japanese-sized person, but not fine for a 6'3" guy with long legs.

The regular seats are comfortable enough. It is not like flying in economy.

One can fly, but the train is a much greener option.

Your train routing would have two transfers:
Osaka to Shin Osaka station on a JR local or rapid train
Shin Osaka to Shinagawa station on the shinkansen
Shinagawa to Haneda Airport on the Keikyu train
or
Osaka to Itami airport by bus (five bucks)
Flight to Haneda is about 70 min

You might want to learn about the wonderful luggage delivery service in Japan.

Taking the bus/plane would be mucho easier with luggage, especially if the bus stops at your hotel.

I’m a mere 5’ 7” so Shinkansen leg room is thankfully not an issue for me. We go on the green car as it gives a bit more room but regular seats are very comfortable and I would have no problem booking them if green wasn’t available.

You mentioned that you might base your choice of airline on how far their gates are from the exits. One benefit of the Green Car is that they are close to the escalators (maybe elevators too). That is typical if not the rule. I would expect that when you get to the top of the escalator at Shin Osaka that the Green Car would be right there (i.e. it might be the rule on the Tokaido Shinkansen).

Other benefits are that the seats are wider, better recline, quieter due to sound-proofing (I think) but also because there are fewer passengers. Seats are 4-across vs 5-across in regular cars and I suppose fewer rows. More empty seats in Green Car because most people don't want to pay the premium. If green car is unavailable then that probably means that the reserved seats in ordinary cars are sold out too. That would be at peak-peak times (during which they also might change ordinary unreserved cars to be reserved). On a typical day, I would expect that there would be green car seats on the next train or the one 15 minutes later.

My expectations might not meet the reality of the greatly increased foreign tourist numbers these days. One reason I liked ordinary cars was the chance to encounter Japanese people or others (me traveling solo, so not a benefit for a couple). There would be more clueless/noisy/fussy foreigners in ordinary cars today.

Am starting to convince myself to give the green car another chance in November. 18,440 vs 13,570 for Hakata to Okayama, ~100 minutes on a Mizuho or Nozomi train. That $92 for an ordinary car is a good deal for what you get. Really no need to spend $33 more (4,870 yen). But today's exchange rate make that look like a good deal compared to the days when the rule of thumb was 100yen/usd. The math said 4.70 would be $48;70 minus a bit so maybe $45.

fodorsuser71829, so this is your tour Classic Japan Tour 2025 | Flexible Bookings US | Trafalgar US
(On one of your previous threads I noticed that premium economy would a splurge for you. Also, I think you were not the poster who got slammed for asking about tours,)

Which airline are you taking home from Haneda? Departure time?

First thing about the Trafalgar tour is the price. That's a wow! But you are not spending my money.

The tour activity level is "Dynamic". "Typically feature 6.4+ km of walking on some days and may involve some steep hills."

You will be taking the shinkansen from Tokyo to Kyoto. You will realize the entertainment value of riding the shinkansen that day. Probably an ordinary car in a Nozomi or Hikari shinkansen. See what that is like. You don't need to buy a return shinkansen ticket to Tokyo before you get to Kyoto.

I liked the Rihga Royal in Hiroshima.

On the last day it is not clear to me if your tour price includes the airport transfer. This is nbd. I see that rome2rio says your hotel is 1 minute walk to where you would get the bus to Itami Airport. That is convenient.
Sheraton Miyako Hotel Osaka to Osaka Itami Airport - 5 ways to travel

Given all that, I would fly if the schedule worked out.

correct this is the tour and we are splurging on a trafalgar guided tours just because of the hassle of planning out everything on our own...having said that we are aware guided tours can be annoying but everything has its pros and cons....we did a 'best of israel' with trafalgar in 2023 (pre attack), before that however we went to shanghai / hong kong on our own pre china takeover of hong kong and still hired local tour guids for 2 or 3 days in each city., we have also been to various countries in europe many times on our own.......i guess as we get older we are getting lazier lol.

as far as the trafalgar price we have the 'nice problem to have' of having too much in savings/investments and both retired so we need to splurge a bit. This trip will be $11k plus $5k premium economy plus $2k miscellaneous......we have budgeted $30k to $40k per year for travel and have a hard time spending that we but don't like to waste money so will try for a big trip like this once a year.

i think airport transfers are included from osaka and our united flight to EWR doesn't depart until 6;25pm so i am thinking flying from Osaka to HND is the way to go.....we could purchase lounge passes for HND depending on how early we arrive but after talking trains throughout the trip it seems like flying would be better

the walking does make me a little nervous due to my sciatica issues that come and go with too much walking but i can always step out of a tour and head back to the hotel or sit and wait...i did that on our Israel tour once or twice.....of course if its too bad prior to the trip we have trip insurance for pre existing conditions so in worst case scenario we would cancel.

We're generally independent travelers, but we've done a couple of tours as well and I have to agree with you that every once in a while it can be nice to just have things done for you. In our case, when we travel I'm responsible for figuring out how to get us from Point A to Point B and sometimes I appreciate just being told to show up, as opposed to figuring out all the logistics.

BTW, based on the November dates listed for Trafalger's tour, we'll be in Kyoto the same days as you! If we see a Trafalger tour group moving through town, we'll wave!

yes please do...it would be pretty funny ...hopefully we both remember....

>> united flight to EWR

ANA is a United partner. so you might be able to check your bags through from ITM to EWR

ANA has hourly flights on the hour from 9AM to 3PM that are scheduled connecting flights. The 1PM flight is a UA codeshare (UA 8005 or NH 26). It arrives at 2:10PM and is a 777. The flight after that is a 767.

United currently has award seats on Nov 18 to 20 for only 6,000 miles in economy for ITM-HND
economy fare is only $70

It's always interesting to watch them board a domestic 777 with more than 500 seats in 15 minutes.

i did see that but for some reason united website won't show me 11/17 flights even if i select money as payment option, i did call united and they can book it for us and waive their booking fee $160 for 2.....obviously i would rather pay with miles but not available on monday it seems....flying vs train is a no brainer so we will probably get the noon flight and get there around 1;30 or 2 and probably purchase a lounge day pass if there is a decent lounge in terminal 3 if we have a few hours to wait - our flight to ewr is 6:25

any feedback on ANA lounge day passes - $50 in advance, $80 at the door, i have free 1 time united lounge passes but they don't work here.

I am wondering if its worth it or if its too crowded usually....we would use it for 2 or 3 hours...the alternative is sitting in the general public area......but sitting in a lounge where everyone acts like they never saw food or drinks before is not fun either.

>> the noon flight and get there around 1;30 or 2
I mentioned the 1PM flight arrives at 2:10. That means the noon flight arrives at 1:10
That 1PM flight already gives you 4h 15 minutes to make the connection.
Then 2PM darrives at 3:10 and the last 3PM option gets there at 4:10, so over 2 hours

I meant buy the ticket from ANA. You're saying that United will sell you that ANA flight?
You want them to link the two itineraries to check you luggage through.

Japan doesn’t do bad days, it actually feels like getting lost is part of the plan.

I've only been in the ANA lounge at HND one time (prior to a UA flight) and it was pretty nice. It was fairly crowded, but we did get seats in a relatively quiet spot at the back and were comfortable. I remember having a curry that was really good. Other food and drinks were decent--definitely better than you'll get on your actual flight. In our case we didn't need to pay, but I would be okay pulling the trigger on $50 if I had a longer connection.

PS You might want to check if there's a time limit on the lounge pass since you'll have a fairly long stay.

If I was concerned about the clientele and could choose a lounge at an airport in Japan, then it would be ANA or JAL because they would have a higher proportion of Japanese customers.

But you are not eligible to buy an ANA lounge pass.

Eligibility:
ANA-operated international flights departing from Narita/Haneda/Honolulu Airport

• Limited to NH flight numbers.
• Excludes codeshare flights with other airlines

You are on a United-operated flight
Your ticket was issued by United (ticket number starts with 016)
Even if it was issued by ANA it would be a code share (NH7544)

Paid Lounge Access | Additional Services | Book | Plan and Book | ANA

thanks for this iteresting news, ok that removes any need to mull over the purchasing of day passes....not a big deal...used to travel BA for business and spent lots of time in lounges in the UK and other EU countries, some good, some bad........we will find a food court in HND and hunker down.

Or keep monitoring the price to upgrade to Polaris on your United flight, which would give you automatic access to the ANA lounge.

Either you fly business class, or someday your kids will...

A decent meal in the airport itself would be a better experience than paying for lounge access.

As well as regular shopping and food, there's a recreated Edo-period street of shops and restaurants (Edo Koji), an observation deck, and a Japan Airlines Museum. These are on the upper floors, outside security.

I meant buy the ticket from ANA. You're saying that United will sell you that ANA flight?

Did you buy that ticket? It was $70 economy or $342 for premium/first class at the ANA website.

Buy from ANA and you would have a chance of getting an upgrade for 10000 JPY one or two days before, or 11000 on the day. That would be worth it if it was available (which it likely won't be but there would be hope).

That $70 ticket is almost a throwaway price. For $129 it can be refundable (to some extent)
2 checked and one carryon are free

That time that you were searched/ Were you taking a domestic or international departure. Or was it an international arrival? Where?

At Haneda Airport T3, on the landside, besides the Edo Koji on the 4th floor mentioned by Someotherguy earlier, there is a connecting passageway to the Haneda Airport Garden (hotel, shops, and restaurants). If you love good eel rice, there is a branch of the Yondaime Kikugawa eel rice (うなぎ四代目菊川), hailed from Nagoya, in that garden wing.
https://tabelog.com/en/tokyo/A1315/A131504/13280605/

The Sheraton is in the background in this photo of the train/bus station you would use..
ファイル:KINTETSU Uehommachi.JPG - Wikipedia

You could taxi from hotel to Osaka Station 6 min $19 to $24 or 11 min $30-40 to Shin Osaka

By rail, the trip would be:
Kintetsu train to Kintetsu-Namba station, maybe stand 2 min
transfer to Osaka Metro
metro to Osaka station, maybe stand 13 min
transfer to JR Osaka for JR Special Rapid to Shin Osaka (reserved seats available in advance on this train)
Transfer at JR Shin Osaka by going to/through the gate for the shinkansen to Shinagawa
Transfer from JR Shinagawa shinkansen to the Keikyu Lmited Express to the airport
Trip time about 3.5 hrs

I would want an hour padding because I remember getting lost when making that same transfer at Shin Osaka.
I also remember last year when the plan was, after spending the night at an airport hotel, to take the Keikyu train from Haneda to Shinagawa where I was to transfer to a JR line to Tokyo to get the Yamagata shinkansen. But I boarded the wrong train at Haneda. I wasn't the only one. I got off after a couple of stops and talked to a couple from Singapore (or HK) who made the same mistake. That station was one that gets skipped by the limited express. We figured out what the arrival time would be for the next train to Shinagawa. We boarded a train but were not certain it was bound for Shinagawa. At one point they announced the next stop and the stop after. That was when we knew we were on the way to Shinagawa. And then the transfer at Shinagawa was not that easy.

mrwunrfl, I’ve learned the hard way the complexity of major Japanese metro stations and the distances and multiple levels that can involve. Especially so during rush hour where everyone except me knows where they are going lol.

Metro stations at train stations are probably the ones you are thinking of....everyone seems to think it's easier to stay at a hotel near those, but the reality is that even if you are block away from the entrance you can still be a few blocks away from your platform.

tough decision - but train travel seems like lots of transfers and a bit of a headache
overall seems like air is the better deal - plus 1 way tix are $80 pp
air travel is cheaper - we get free trans to ITM from the tour and as you mentioned before you can forward your luggage straight thru to USA.
i guess if we take air - get to ITM 90 minutes before flight - land at T2 - no customs i assume - take shuttle/airport train to T3 - go thru T3 security and thats it? am i missing anything?

You must have been traveling with Paul McCartney.

That is about right. You still didn't answer my question about buying that ANA ticket from United. If you can do that then have United link the ticket to your EWR ticket. That is, make sure that you can check bags from ITM through to EWR.

Correct, no immigration or customs at ITM. The security check for that domestic flight should be pretty easy.

The Hankyu bus is in the Kintetsu station building. Here is the bus schedule:
Kintetsu Uehommachi Sta. | Osaka (Itami) Airport Route | Timetable/Fare | Airport Limousine Bus | Hankyu Kanko Bus
For a 1PM departure I would take the 11AM bus arriving 35 or 40 minutes later.
My luggage would travel with me. I wheel my bag to the bus, driver loads/unloads it, then wheel it to check-in expecting to check it through to EWR.
Arriving at ITM at 11:40 I would be checked in and through security by 12:15 with plenty time to find my gate for 1PM departure
Flight arrives HND at 2:10PM. Get the terminal shuttle at 2:40 and be at T3 with just a carryon by 3PM and head to the security line.
That is 4 hours with padding.

You can, of course, send luggage from your Osaka hotel to Haneda Airport. Send a couple days in advance. I would just need to use my rollaboard carryon for those last couple of days. A couple could combine their stuff into one bag, send the other big bag containing used clothes to the airport. Or send both

who knows...we may have hit a bunch of new hires cause they all looked really young.....i also remember another japan trip prior to 9/11 and they met our car/cab outside the terminal and wrapped all suitcases in plastic wrap .....not sure if they still do that....i guess it was at Narita.

thanks again for all the great info/tips!

interestingly when booking ANA flight one way from ITM to HND via the United call center - they informed me the flights are free, they changed it to 3 one way flights and everything stayed the same as our orignal round trip regarding confirmation numbers and seats selected.
i couldn't get an satisfactory explanation why it was free except the agent said because we were premium economy but who knows....i don't dig deep when things are no charge.

Great! I think it means you could have bought it from United as an open-jaw ticket EWR-HND, ITM-HND-EWR instead of roundtrip EWR-HND-EWR

Oh, your PE fare allowed the change.

Hopefully you got an email that said your reservations are confirmed and ticketed. Might be same confirmation number but different ticket number of your original roundtrip.

You could (should/I would/maybe you already have) go to United dot com and choose My Trips- Current. Take a look at the trip. It should show as Ticketed. The reservations should show as Confirmed. Check the flight dates and times for the (now) three flight segments.

You can select seats for the United flights. For the ANA flight you should see the ANA confirmation code somewhere on that United webpage. ANA calls it a Reservation Number.

Go to ana dot co dot jp and click on My Booking. The search default is by Reservation Number but you can choose to search by e-Ticket Numer

Enter the ANA code and your name.
If your name is DAVID SCOTT JOHNSON then it looks like you would use DAVIDSCOTT as your first (given) name). Or try DAVID if that doesn't work.

You could also try the search by e-Ticket Number

Once you find your ANA reservation it should say Ticketed and you can select your seats.

Your ANA res code might also be in your United email. You could call United to get it, if necessary.

Or you can just skip all this verifying and just trust that United got it right.

Only question left would be: are you eligible for a paid upgrade. I would ask United now and then ANA at check-in.
Or just ask United (now) if you could make it Premium/First Class on ANA. Definitely worth 10000 JPY ($68).

yes got the email and-when i went into 'my united' i saw the ANA flight and was able to pick seats from there, all looks good and confirmed - all 3 flights are under the same confirmation number that i originally had for the round trip.....but the ANA flight also has a separate ANA confirmation number

for upgrade to polaris - 30k miles & $450 per long haul segment just to get on the waitlist.....we aren't high enough status and there are multiple people already on the list (i had united check for me) so we will just be happy with premium economy.