Kinosaki 9:33 - 12:07 Kyoto (one min transfer Fukuchiyama)
Kinosaki 10:34 13:06 Kyoto
Kyoto 14:01-17:03 Takayama

Yeah, 2.5hr +3hr is too long for me and that doesn't include transfer time in Kyoto

Kinosaki to Tokyo trip would go via Nagoya.
Nagoya to Takayama is about 2.5 hours
Nagoya to Tokyo is about 1.5 hours

So Takayama is only 1 hour more travel time more than Tokyo, but you would have to add in transfer/wait time in Nagoya. The shinkansen to Tokyo will only stop in Nagoya for two min.

I can't recommend the place I stayed in K.O. but with that budget you should be able to find a nice place on the canal street where the baths route is.

You could take a look at Arima Onsen, near Kobe so closer to Kyoto and shinkansen than K.O. I have not visited there yet and don't know if it is multi-onsen walkable. Maybe they have an onsen bath loop bus (like way north in Nyuto) that can get you around. Maybe taxis, IDK.

The question I have now for me: what time would I have to leave Arima Onsen to get to Oishida Station by 1:30 PM. Too long I think.

Sarah, I think mrwunrfl has given you a far more detailed explanation of the nature of the Onsen towns than I could ever do! And believe me, I do understand that it’s hard to coordinate the train schedules - a lot of my planning went into trying to make it as manageable as possible to get from one place to another.

And I do appreciate the challenge of finding the right kind of places to stay. I will say from everything I’ve read, Kinosaki onsen is what you’re looking for, but geographically, it’s difficult if you’re going to Takayama. Arima looks better for transportation between Kyoto and Takayama, but at best Arima Onsen to Takayama looks like it’s 4 1/2 hours and multiple changes.

So my question is, how important is Takayama? I admit was charmed by the town, though it’s certainly not untouristy. And we loved Sumiyoshi ryokan (Antique Inn) - is this what you’re referring to? If so, I don’t believe they have much of an onsen to speak of - if they do, it’s not notable. There is a shared bath that looks small (we didn’t use it) but what makes the place special is the way the family looks after their guests - and the food is terrific. If there is another Sumiyoshi Ryokan, then forgive me, but if this is the one you’re staying in, I recommend it highly - but not for an onsen experience.

progol Thank you for weighing in! Yes, Takayama is not logistically easy from Kinosaki. And you're right, Kinosaki is the place we want to be, for numerous reasons. I am also trying to wrangle award tickets into Osaka and out of Tokyo, or (less ideally), into Tokyo and out of Osaka, and that doesn't simplify matters much due to limited availability at this early juncture. I am learning that I have to tamp down my innate need to book everything this far in advance as the travel industry does not seem supportive of my hyper-controlling nature. :) As of right now, I am contemplating landing in Kyoto via Osaka, heading to Kinosaki, and then Kinosaki to Tokyo for multiple days. It's a simpler itinerary, but of course, no end of things to do and see in each place. It *seems* like I would have to backtrack through Kyoto en route from Kinosaki to Tokyo no matter what, unless @mrwnrfl can advise differently. So I might want to break up our Kyoto portion into two 3 night parts. Which would have its own benefits.

Our family did the Kinosaki-Kyoto-Tokyo leg with no major time issues or problems. Left Kinosaki around 10:30ish, transferred at Kyoto Station with time to purchase eki bento and coffee, then Nozomi to Shinagawa Station by mid afternoon. Was around 4.5 hours total and I love the Japanese train system.

I would prefer doing Kyoto in one stay rather than breaking it up into two separate parts, but if that works for you then go for it.

You could look into flying from Toyooka (TJH) to Tokyo. Tottori (TTJ) is a bit closer (20ish min) to KO than Kyoto and ANA has nonstops. Award searches at AA and UA gave only alternative airports when I tried TJH. One of those is Okayama (OKJ). Japanese airports are pretty easy to use, ime.

Am not clear but it seems that you dropped a stop in Takayama without replacing it. Which is ok. You could visit elsewhere in the KO region, See if Tottori and Amanohashidate interest you. Okayama is another option and has both shinkansen and several flights (OKJ) to Tokyo (HND) and it has the benefit of being on Sanyo side, less rainy than San-in side (on the Nihon Kai) of Honshu.

Going to KO first or splitting the Kyoto stay (which you mentioned has benefits) would make it much easier to get to Takayama. There is a daily Hida L'ex train from Kyoto that goes to Takayama, no train change. Shinkansen to Nagoya and transfer is a bit faster.

I want to recommend Matsue as a wonderful option though it is a bit of a long trip from KO. The airport would be Yonago. There is an airport at Izumo but it had limited flights (commuter flights to Osaka ITM, IIRC).

You certainly have time to work out your Japan itinerary given that you don't know when your flights will be and how much time you will have in Japan (because of award flight availability).

What miles would you use? Where are you flying from? Economy awards are pretty easy to find for USA - Japan flights (on AA and UA and their alliance partners). For business class you have to take what you can get and hope to change later, unless you have a ton of miles.

I would search for one-way award seats to Tokyo (TYO) and Osaka (OSA), checking the box to use alternate airports. If I found an award seat to Tokyo, then I would search for another destination like TTJ or OKJ. Plan to spend the night, if necessary, and travel to KO the next day. For example, fly to Osaka and spend the night if you arrive too late to get to KO that day.

If you find an award seat to Tokyo Haneda then you could probably find a connection to many cities in Japan. Domestic Japan flights can be cheap or inexpensive with good enough refund options.

If you want business class for the flight home (assuming you are in USA, but this could apply elsewhere) then consider buying a ticket. One-way business class fares are lower from Japan that to Japan. Not cheap, but reasonable.

And besides TYO and OSA you could search for other airports served by third-country airline alliance partners. By that I mean, mostly, Korean carriers. Connect in Seoul enroute to Japanese cities like Okayama or Fukuoka or Komatsu (for Kanazawa). Two years ago, I couldn't get a business class award to TYO but found one on Asiana to Fukuoka via Seoul.

You may also consider Arima Onsen, close to Osaka.

sawadee, does Arima have several baths that you can walk to like in Kinosaki? Or is there an onsen bus/shuttle circuit between places like in Nyuto Onsen? Or are the onsen ryokan/hotels more isolated like in many other onsen towns?

There are two onsens in the town Not as many as Kinosaki and I just remebered that tatoos are not allowed