Japan 2 itinerary- feedback appreciated!
 

Having had a fabulous first trip to Japan, we’re now planning a second visit next fall for 18 nights at the beginning of November. This will follow 2 1/2 weeks in Taiwan, so I’m trying to be circumspect and not make the trip too hectic. We are arriving in Kix from Taiwan so will at least have adjusted to the time difference by then. And I now have far too many places I want to see! We will end our trip in Kyoto, returning to Hotel Mume, where we both felt a strong connection to the people and the place.

I now have 2 itineraries (with variations)and clearly can’t do both and would love your thoughts. Much as I’d like to say we’ll come back a third time, I really don’t see it happening, as we have other places we want to see, too, and our travel energy is dwindling.

Itinerary #1
Osaka -3/4
Kinosaki-2 (I’ve been wanting to go here for a while but it is the outlier)
Himeji-1 (transition place and I’m eager to see the castle)
Onomichi -3 (want to do the temple walk, day 2 explore by ferry or bike)
Hiroshima -3 (1 day for the city, another for a day trip, but not necessarily Miyajima)
Kyoto -5 (Uji, Nara?)

Itinerary #1a (all the above plus Naoshima, which has also been on my radar for a while)
Osaka -3/4
Kinosaki-2 (I’ve been wanting to go here for a while but it is the outlier)
Himeji-1 (transition place and I’m eager to see the castle)
Naoshima - 2/3
Onomichi -2/3
Hiroshima -2
Kyoto -5 (Uji, Nara?)

I’m concerned about being spread too thin in the variation above and, if I sacrifice a visit to Kinosaki (which I’m not sure I want to), we would go to Naoshima. however, in many ways, itinerary #1a hits the places I’m especially interested in.,

The more I read about Takamatsu, the more it sounds appealing, as well as Matsuyama, as long as I can find a good onsen hotel or ryokan. But I’m concerned that both Takamatsu and Matsuyama are bigger cities and the appeal of Kinosaki and Onomichi are that they are smaller. We loved our experiences in the smaller places on our recent trip and I want to experience that again.

I try to keep the travel between places no more than 3 hours with limited changes.

Itinerary #2
Osaka -3/4
Naoshima -2
Takamatsu -3
Matsuyama -2/3
Hiroshima-2
Kyoto -5
(This itinerary could be reversed, traveling to Hiroshima from Osaka and returning to Kyoto from Naoshima)

Thoughts, recommendations and suggestions are welcome!

(As I look at this, my heart seems more drawn to #1 or #1a but I’m willing to hear other opinions )

I like #1 best
Onomichi is only about 65 minutes from Hiroshima if you take the shinkansen.

Matsuyama is a city, population of 500k, but it felt much smaller. Wonderful castle. Dogo Onsen Honkan (main building) is famous/historic and quite attractive inside and out. The actual bath is not large. I don't mean this to be negative at all but the point of going there is not to enjoy a fabulous bath area. It is modestly sized and, really some of the baths in an onsen town are similar (like Kinosaki Onsen). You go to Dogo Onsen to soak in the water but also to soak in the ambiance of the honkan. Your not just going for a soak, you are going for a soak in Dogo Onsen. That was the first onsen I ever visited and figured if it waa good enough for emporers then it would be a good place for me to start.

By fabulous bath am thinking of the baths at Daiichi Takimotokan in Noboribetsu Onsen or a large rotenburo somewhere with fab views. I think the bath(s) you experienced in Okukda were probably what am describing as modestly sized, small and cozy.

I stayed at Hotel Patio Dogo, across the street from Dogo Onsen. It might have had a bath. I did have a room that was twice as big and half the cost (a bit of exaggeration) than what I had in Tokyo. It would have been reasonable to suit up at the hotel and clip-clop over to the onsen building. Am sure there are onsen hotels and ryokan in the area that could be your destination but, to me, the onsen interest was in that famous building.

Kinosaki Onsen is an onsen town. That is very much a good choice if looking for onsen hotels/ryokan. Or maybe better to describe it as such a place that also has a circuit of baths to visit that are a short stroll apart.

Take the onsen out of Matsuyama and you still have a nice city to visit. Take the onsen out of Kinosaki Onsen and you have farmland.

Thanks so much, mrwunrfl! I knew you’d chime in! I’m inclined toward #1 as well though there is definitely a part of me that would like to see Naoshima. Have you been? It sounds intriguing (and we are fans of modern art and architecture) yet a bit difficult to navigate.

<<Take the onsen out of Matsuyama and you still have a nice city to visit. Take the onsen out of Kinosaki Onsen and you have farmland.>>

I love this description, so I must admit I’m taken by the idea of a walking around the town in a yukata and trying out different onsens. I loved the onsens on our recent trip and I’m especially drawn to Kinosaki. It sounds fun and “touristy” in a very traditional sort of way.

Matsuyama does sound very nice and I could see enjoying it as well.

Naoshima has never interested me.

I understand. I thought that might be the case.

My question is why Osaka for 3/4 nights??
Himeji isn't that far from KIX - so you could go there for the first night unless your flight is awfully late getting in....then you're not that far from Kurashiki and Naoshima and Onomichi.

After that you would have a longish trip to Kinosaki Onsen and the places further east.....

I figured we’d do 3 nights, or 2 full days in Osaka; if we spent a 4th night it would be for a day trip to Nara. We haven’t been there before so we thought we’d at least get a feeling for it. Our stay at Mume will be for the end of our trip so I thought it would be easiest to start in Osaka. But I’ll try to work it a bit and see if we can move it around a little.

I try to limit our travel between places to around 3 hours or less and limit the number of changes. That’s why Kinosaki to Himeji works well - it’s a direct train under 3 hours. A longer train ride is okay if we’re not making multiple changes. Fatigue really is an issue so I want to minimize the travel schlepping where I can.

Yes, I understand what you mean about long train rides and changing although it is usually fairly easy unless you have huge luggage...
You can use Himeji as a base for Kurashiki, Naoshima and Onomichi if you don't want to move again....
You can easily go from Kyoto to Nara - two different train lines - I do it often....
I've been to Osaka many times as well but with limited time, for me, it would be not worth a couple of days...with all the other places you want to fit in...just my opinion obviously.....

Thanks, Mara,
You make good points about using one of the places for a base. For those places you mention, I think I’d rather stay the night in those places but I’ll discuss the idea of skipping Osaka as a way to have more time elsewhere.

Is Osaka so much less of a place to visit? I know a lot of people don’t care for it but there are others who really do seem to say it’s a more lowkeyed city than Tokyo and is enjoyable. I’ll need to do a rethink on this.

Oh, I just looked at your proposed itinerary #2 - missed it earlier....duh....sorry....I might have to change my earlier comments as I wasn't thinking straight....
I like both itineraries and they are all basically in the same area of Japan...I really like Shikoku - I spent about ten days there a while back -
I like Osaka but as I said it is another big city and your time might be better spent in other places....as far as Naoshima unless you're going to stay at Benesse House you can do that as a day trip as someone mentioned on another thread here, I think. And you can get the ferry from Takamatsu if you're going to be staying there.
In a way it's too bad you really want to go to Kinosaki Onsen as it's off your main route...but it's a nice onsen town and I'm not into onsen like mrwunrfl....but I enjoyed a night there....

Thanks, Mara. So many options! I agree, Kinosaki is definitely an outlier. I think I need to just sit with this a while, do some videos of the different places and get a feel for each. We really loved the smaller cities on our trip so I would love to keep Onomichi in the plan. The truth is, they’ll all be good…

Thank you for the feedback..I do have time to plan, at least.

I do kind of agree with Mara bout your time in Osaka. We liked it but it is a big city and if that's not really your thing I'd porbably either think about skipping it or doing it as a day trip from Kyoto. You can do Matsuyama as a day trip form Hiroshima on the ferry. That's what we did the first time we visited. It's a nice city, great castle and just has a generally good vibe.
We loved Onomichi but 3 days there does like a lot. You cold always day trip to Kurashiki from there if interested.
Are there any onsen towns that appeal to you perhaps closer to the other places on your itinerary? Onsen doesn't appeal to me except as a place to buy traditional kokeshi in Tohoku so I can't suggest anything there.

valgachi, many thanks for responding. I’m definitely getting the idea that we’ll limit our time in Osaka. I’d like to get a taste of it but not spend a lot of time.

I was really taken by the onsen experience. There are places closer to Osaka but they don’t sound as appealing (Arima) and Matsuyama has facilities, but I think Kinosaki is unique. It still calls to me but I will definitely play around with the options. I thought Onomichi would be good for 3 nights with a day for the town and a day on the ferry cruising the sea (the ferry to Setoda looks wonderful if we’re there when it’s running). It seems that some people prefer Kurashiki and others find it too much of a touristy town. Also, I guess if we go to Naoshima, we’d have some exploration of the Seto islands, but I’m intrigued by the rides from Onomichi.

This is all to say there are too many choices!

Kurashiki is definitely more touristy but when we were there it was mostly Japanese tourists. It is very pretty but doesn't take a lot of time to see (we ended up spending part of the day in Okayama at the last minute). I'd just keep Kurashiki as an option if you find you've had your fill of Onimichi while there.

And yes, so many places to see. We're thinking about heading back in the fall for trip #6!

Valgachi, that’s wonderful! I wish we didn’t need business class seats, it would make travel so much easier (alas, aging aches and pains really do seem to require comfort, especially for long haul flights).

Current playing around - gives me a little of both itineraries:
Osaka-2
Kino-saki-2
Himeji-1
Onomichi-2
Hiroshima- 3 (day trip TBD)
Takamatsu-3 (day trip to Naoshima)
Kyoto-5

The train from Kinosaki to Himeji would arrive late in the afternoon, so we wouldn’t really see the castle until the next day. We could arrive early possibly in Onomichi, so we’ll have enough time to explore the city. With an extra day in Hiroshima, we can do a day trip, possibly to Matsuyama. And then we’d have time in Takamatsu to see the garden as well as visit a Naoshima. And then end in Kyoto.

About Kinosaki Onsen being an outlier: it is geographically outside of the Tokaido/Sanyo shinkansen routes that connectt big cities.

You can google Osaka to Hirohima and see multiple results and get the idea that the trip takes around 1hr 30m
You can google Kinosaki Onsen to Hirohima and see multiple results and get the idea that the trip takes around 4 to 5 hours.

A small city/town just doesn't have the frequency/volume that the big cities do, so it is necesaary to look at the timetable to see what your options are.

Time required: 1:41
07:13 Attachment 8749 Kinosakionsen
08:54 Attachment 8750 Himeji

Time required: 1:49
14:14 Attachment 8749 Kinosakionsen
16:03 Attachment 8750 Himeji


Time required: 3:05
14:14 Attachment 8749 Kinosakion

16:03
16:22 Attachment 8751 Himeji
17:19 Attachment 8750 Hiroshima

So, now I know that I can get from KO to Hiroshima with only one transfer in 3 hours 5 min including a transfer time of 19 minutes. Might be able to get it under 3 hours with a shorter transfer time.

That was using West Japan Railway Company - Timetables, Route Maps, and Station Maps (westjr.co.jp)

Understanding that Naoshima to Onomichi involves non-JR travel and to lazy to work out the total travel time with connections, I just googled it and got an itinerary with travel time of 2h 58m. It ia bit more complicated than the 1 train transfer in the above trip,

7:55 AM Naoshima Port
Ferry宇野～直島［本村・旅客］宇野港［旅客船］行


20 min
(non-stop)
8:15 AM
Uno
WalkWalk


About 5 min
8:28 AM
Uno Station
8:56 AM
TrainUno LineLocalOkayama


28 min
(9 stops)
· Stop ID: JR-L15
9:07 AM
Hayashima Station
TrainSeto-Ohashi LineRapid Marine Liner 14RapidOkayama


12 min
(2 stops)
· Platform 1 · Stop ID: JR-L06
9:19 AM
Okayama Station
WalkWalk


About 2 min
9:47 AM
Okayama Station
ShinkansenTokaido-Sanyo ShinkansenNozomi 5NozomiHakata


16 min
(non-stop)
· Platform 22
10:03 AM
Fukuyama Station
WalkWalk


About 2 min
10:17 AM
Fukuyama Station
TrainSan-yo LineLocalMihara


19 min
(4 stops)
· Platform 3 · Stop ID: JR-W14
10:36 AM
Onomichi Station
WalkWalk


About 2 min
10:45 AM
尾道駅前
Bus尾道駅～フジグラン～東尾道駅東尾道駅行


3 min
(3 stops)
10:48 AM
Nagaeguchi
WalkWalk


About 5 min, 400 m
10:53 AM Onomichi

(ok, travel time includes 17 min travel time Onomichi Station to Onomichi which could be reduced by using a taxi)

I have some comments but no time now...later....or as they say in Japanese - まってね　－mattene

I like your most recent itinerary basically....my changes would be to consolidate your nights in either Onomichi or Hiroshima or maybe one last night in Hiroshima and then take the ferry to Matsuyama....I have taken a few Japanese ferries - always nice trips imo. Then you can do a night in Matsuyama and go to Takamatsu and Naoshima....

Will you have some type of rail pass? What about your luggage? Do you travel pretty light or maybe use takuhaibin? Sorry if you have already discussed these issues.

And the ferry has a 30% discount for foreigners - it expires next month but maybe they do it every year...

Mara, thank you so much for your suggestions and I’ll consider them, though truthfully, I really do like the idea of staying in each of the places. It’s a nice feeling staying in a smaller town, so I’d more likely stay in Onomichi but I understand Hiroshima is a lovely city - and I do want to have their okonomiyaki! It probably makes more sense to stay in Hiroshima but I’d miss staying in the smaller city - or at least, that’s how I feel now. As it’s said, early days.

We did the luggage forwarding a couple of times on this past trip and I could see it being very helpful on this trip.

Good to know about the ferry discount. When it comes time, I’ll definitely check it out.

mrwunrfl,
Thank you for the train schedule options. I’ve found that the Limited Express Hamakaze train from KO to Himeji is the one I’d want to take. I know we could get to Hiroshima by taking the same train and then changing for the train to Hiroshima. Though I know if we want to actually see Himeji castle, we’ll probably still need to stay over, since we are not the type to get off a train to check out a sight and then continue on to the next destination, much as it would make sense!

For now, this is my latest iteration of my itinerary and, so far, it works the best for our purposes:

Osaka-2
Takamatsu -3/4
Hiroshima -2/3
Onomichi-2/3
Himeji-1
Kinosaki -2
Kyoto -5

Thoughts:
-I considered combining Onomichi and Hiroshima, but I’d rather leave them separate. The evenings in a smaller place, to me, are often special. Do you recommend another option?

-I know most folks don’t recommend staying over in Himeji but it sets us up to go to Kinosaki, which, for now, is still very much a place I’m interested in visiting. I don’t see a good alternative.

-I’m a bit mixed about 3 nights in Hiroshima. It gives us the option to do a day trip to Miyajima, though I’m less interested in that as it seems to get very crowded. And a day trip to Matsuyama is a bit longer than we generally do, much as this sounds more up our alley. Still, it may make sense to keep the “extra” night here.

- I’m also considering adding it to Onomichi so we can do a day trip by ferry to Setoda or a day trip to Tomonoura, either of which sound fun for us and balances out the smaller stops with larger stops nicely.

- Or, we can add it to Takamatsu and stay there for 4 nights, using the extra day to either visit Teshima, the Noguchi Museum, or Ogijima/Megijima islands. My primary reason for staying here is to visit Naoshima but also see some other sights. Please note that we’d arrive in Takamatsu on a Sunday. We wouldn’t be able visit Naoshima or the Noguchi museum until Tuesday though we could visit the other islands on Monday.

Looks very good , progol!!

Himeji has a free guide service for the castle -
https://i-guide.jpn.org/

Thanks, Mara! And I’ll definitely try to use the free guide service at the castle. I love the volunteer guides - we had one in Tokyo and in Kanazawa, and it really added to our experience.

Me too! Have had many over the years in various places!! Never had a problem...:)

So having looked at PJTravels’ latest plan, I started playing around with the itinerary, and came up with this:

Osaka -2
Kurashiki -2
Takamatsu -3
Matsuyama - 2
Hiroshima -2
Kinosaki -2
Kyoto -5

I could stop and see Himeji Castle on the way to Kurashiki, so that works and we wouldn’t have to stay in Himeji, as most people seem to think it’s not an interesting town to visit.

I’m just debating between Onomichi and Kurashiki. And I’m really torn. I don’t see visiting both. Kurashiki seems to win the “cuteness” award while Onomichi seems a little more traditional. I like the idea of the historic district in Kurashiki. I like the idea of the temple walk in Onomichi.

Thoughts?

Edited to add: the more I look at this plan, the more I like it!

Your itinerary options look good. You got rid of the one sorta-broken part, going from Naoshima to Onomichi.

I thought that you "are not the type to get off a train to check out a sight and then continue on to the next destination".

>> most people seem to think it’s not an interesting town to visit
Am one of those people but it was probably because I didn't look very far beyond Himejijo to see what the city has to offer. Am sure that I did see what there was to offer but didn't see other word heritage sites or best of Japan kind of thing. I think of Matsumoto the same way. We did have a report years ago where they stayed in Himeji for a couple of nights and enjoyed it.

Well, I was perfectly happy with your early morning plan....but this one adds Matsuyama which I liked....as far as Onomichi and Kurashiki - I vote for Onomichi - Kurashiki has the little historical area...Just re-read my Kurashiki notes from 2009 and I said 'sort of cheesy.' On the same trip I went to Onomichi, but didn't stay over, did the Temple walk, saw the art museum part of the way to the top and later the Movie Museum - seemed more of a real place as against Kurashiki - but that's obviously my taste....

Himeji has one of the twelve original castles so definitely worth a detour imho - I have been to all 12!!

Thanks, Mara! You are really a great help! My gut also tells me that I’d like Onomichi more than Kurashiki. I’m not sure that the second plan works as well with Onomichi, though. I’ll see if I can make it work, but if not, I’m back to the first plan.

I’ve been playing with including Onomichi into the newer itinerary and it kinda works in an interesting way:

Osaka-2
Takamatsu-3
Matsuyama -2
Onomichi -2
Hiroshima -2
Kinosaki-2
Kyoto -5

Matsuyama to Onomichi would be an interesting trip though a bit of a schlep, with ferry, bus and train. Possibly worth an adventure though definitely a crazy route. I’ll play with it a little more because it does look interesting.

Theoretically, we could stop and see Himeji Castle if we travel to Kinosaki from Hiroshima, but we’re less likely going to stop for a visit when we’re on our way somewhere on a longer travel day (for us).

mrwunrfl,
I missed this response with the flurry of activity, so I’m not sure which itinerary you’re referring to. As of now, I’m back to the one I wrote up this morning, so I’m glad you mentioned that at least one person enjoyed staying in Himeji! For one night, I’m sure it’ll be more than fine.

Osaka -2
Takamatsu-3
Hiroshima -3
Onomichi -2
Himeji -1
Kinosaki -2
Kyoto -5

I did create a second itinerary that worked very nicely, too, but it works well with Kurashiki but not Onomichi. I really tried to make it work with Onomichi, but the travel to the various locations become too complicated and it’s not worth it, much as I’d like to add Matsuyama (I know you’re a big fan).

Osaka -2
Kurashiki -2
Takamatsu -3
Matsuyama - 2
Hiroshima -2
Kinosaki -2
Kyoto -5

In addition to the castle, you could also visit Kokoen while you’re in Himeji. I thought the gardens, though small, was worthwhile. And if you do stay overnight in Himeji, you could think about going to Mount Shosha for its temple. It’s enough off the beaten path that you shouldn’t encounter crowds. We had it on our list but ran out of time.

If you are not planning on going to Miyajima, have you considered going to Hiroshima as a day trip from Onomichi. If you concentrate on the Peace Memorial Museum and Park, you should have enough time plus get in your okonomiyaki. I assume Onomichi will serve Hiroshima-style okonomiyaki too as it was also available in Fukuyama and Tomonoura.

Don’t get me wrong - I’m all for staying over in Hiroshima. Given your priorities of smaller towns and that Onomichi is so close to Hiroshima, it’s worth a thought.

I made a similar suggestion earlier in the thread, tripplanner001, but progol seemed to want to experience both places...

At this point I have lost the drift and not sure which itinerary/itineraries are being considered.....

Maybe I should think more about mine since I leave in ten days....

Sorry I missed that, Mara. Perhaps I was not looking at the most updated version.

Ten days? That’s exciting. Where are you going? Hopefully you’ll catch some of the plum blossoms and perhaps even some early sakura.

Thanks, Mara and tripplanner,I appreciate your comments.

For the record, the CURRENT iteration of the itinerary is this:

Osaka -2
Takamatsu-3
Hiroshima -3
Onomichi -2
Himeji -1
Kinosaki -2
Kyoto -5

Mara, I’m sorry if you’re feeling like you’ve lost the plot with me! I’ve gotten a lot of help from your comments and I’ve taken them to heart. I did go back to the itinerary from yesterday morning that you liked as I did appreciate your comments about Kurashiki and I sense I’d feel similarly. I then went back to the earlier plan since the second plan I came up with, which included Matsuyama, just doesn’t work with Onomichi very well.

Please focus on your own trip! Where are you going?

tripplanner, as Mara said, I do want to experience both places, though you do raise the question about visiting Miyajima. I’m torn. Some folks still love it as a day trip and say the crowds are manageable and one can avoid them while others felt the visit wasn’t that enjoyable. If I remember correctly, you seemed to have mixed feelings. I’m still torn.

I do have 3 days allocated to Hiroshima. That third day could be allocated elsewhere but I’m not sure where, should I decide not to go to Miyajima.

The crowds at Miyajima was the worst throughout our trip to Japan. That’s because the island is small and the sites are concentrated, especially the main shrine and torii. You could try to go early or late.

From Hiroshima, perhaps you could consider day trips to Iwakuni or Yamaguchi as points east are already on your itinerary. We didn’t go west Hiroshima as we didn’t have time.

Thanks, tripplanner, I’ll need to check them out. I did note Iwakuni at some point and it looks like a nice option.

I think I need to take a break! It’s getting a bit overwhelming again just as I try to keep things simple!

progol and tripplanner01 - no need at all to apologize to me!!
I am enjoying helping progol and the least I can do after the fabulous pictures she posted here!! Brought back many memories!! I never recall such a detailed preparation on the forum - progol, it's almost like you are thinking aloud which is a bit of fun....I will look up my notes on Iwakuni, etc. later this afternoon.

I first went to Japan in 2004 - one week in Tokyo - I got a really cheap fare. Since then I have returned almost every year - each trip getting longer and longer until now I am there over two months. I go to Tokyo at the beginning and end and Kyoto in the middle. I take a few side trips - this year I am going to Okinawa and Ishigaki for a few days and Ise - have never been to the shrine there. Maybe Sado Island from Tokyo - I was planning to go last year but got sick and had to cancel.

For many years I had a very inexpensive sort of studio in Kyoto but they went out of business after Covid so now I have found another place that is a bit more money. Of course, the $/円 is very favorable...I have cooking facilities so that helps with the expenses..

Okayama can be a base for Kurashiki, Naoshima, and Himeji. Okayama has a nice castle and famous garden
Interesting to look at the map and see how much farther away Himeji is from Okayama than Kurashiki is. In distance, I mean, but train travel time is about the same:

Okayama to Kurashiki is 18 minutes on JR local
Okayama to Himeji is 19 minutes on the shinkansen
.
That would work well for travelers who like to have a base and day trip instead of moving lodging locations. That approach is most common on this forum. I prefer moving and don't like backtracking but the 38 minutes of backtracking is negligible

I did a trip to the area west of Hiroshima a few years ago. I went to Iwakuni for one night where I saw the Kintaikyo Bridge and the Kikkawa Museum while avoiding the white snake museum. The next day to Tsuwano where I was able to get a ticket on the Steam Locomotive Yamaguchi - SL trains are one of the things I often look for - saw a couple of shrines/temples and then a Yabusame - a traditional Japanese archery on horseback. There was a pretty big EQ that night and my train to Masuda was very much delayed so I took a bus to Hagi and saw a lot of the temple and castle town. The next day I stopped at Masuda on the way to Yamaguchi which I think is Number 2 on the NY Times list of places to travel this year...so all in all it was about a week long trip to see that area....
Obviously you could go to one or two places as a day trip from Hiroshima...

Mara, thanks again for all the ideas. I love your story about your ongoing connection to Japan and even having a place that is yours in Kyoto.

By the way, in a way I am posting my thinking process here as it does help me develop my ideas.

mrwunrfl, thank you for your thoughts. I’m less inclined to use Okayama as a base for Naoshima as it’s still a long commute while Takamatsu seems well positioned for a day trip to the island and also has a wonderful garden, but I am toying with the option of staying there for a couple of days.

Oh, and Mara and tripplanner- I’m now considering staying in Hiroshima and visiting Onomichi as a day trip. In my initial research, I saw train times between the 2 of about 1 1/2 hours, which (for us) is too long for a day trip. But I did see there are Shinkansen trips of 40 minutes, which makes it much more realistic. This possibility does change things a bit.

Of course, I keep getting tempted with other options, especially traveling into Kyushu, but I have to keep reminding myself that this trip is following 2 1/2 weeks in Taiwan and I want to keep the trip relaxed.