India 1st Time Itinerary Revised - HELP!
 

Thanks to all who weighed in...here's a revised itinerary for March 2017. Thoughts? I realize it covers a lot of ground, but everything looks so amazing! Could obviously cut Jodhpur to save the time there, but the blue city looks pretty neat. Advice? Thanks!

Here are my current thoughts...please weigh in:

Delhi - 2 nights

train to Jaipur

Jaipur 3 nights

drive 3 hrs to Sher Bagh 1 night safari

Drive (this is the one long drive) 7.5 hours to Jodhpur - 2 nights

drive 1.5 hours to Mihir Garh (might cut this due to cost) - 1 night

Drive 2 hrs to Rawla Narlai - 1 night

Drive 2.5 hours to Udaipur - 3 nights

Fly back to Delhi and back to US

I did not weigh in before but I notice you are staying at Sher Bagh at Ranthambore, which we loved during our first trip to India several years ago. If you leave at 9 am from Jaipur, you should arrive at Sher Bagh in time for lunch and the afternoon game drive. Hopefully you will do the early morning game drive the next day which is followed by breakfast. Game drives last 4 hours or more, so be prepared for a very long day with your drive to Jodhpur. You might consider revising this part of your itinerary.

That's a good point, Craig. And the two back-to-back one nighters stand out for me as something you might want to revise. Perhaps cut Mihir Garh (as it appears you are already inclined to do) and add a night at Sher Bagh.

I think the changes you've made so far have improved your itinerary.

No Agra?

As you know from your previous posting, and as VP Singh put it so well there too, I agree with rhkkmk's query. I'd cut a night from jaipur (IF that's the only place you can do it) and have night in Agra. You really should see the Taj AND the fort (you can skip the Red Fort in Delhi then). You have to be at Taj FIRST THING in a.m.--thus, stay previous night--before crowds come--and even though it is "off" season, come they will. (How best to spend time in crazy Agra is a whole other topic.) There are some gorgeous hotels, AND well-rated homestays, in Agra.

Your son loves photography. VP Singh is right--THIS is the place his friends will ask about. Do see this iconic place, despite the crowds, haze, hassle, and large numbers of tourists. If you've not already done so, watch "The Namesake"--a prerequisite to any trip to India--and watch the son's (who was 17!) reaction ,and the gorgeous scenes of the exterior and interior of the Taj.

There's a new "bullet train" from New Delhi Nizamuddinn to Agra that makes it i n only 100 minutes. Even the regular Shatabtil gets you there in less than three hours.The new fast train is booked up already for the next 6 months, so IF you consider this, be aware of that.

Ok - another revision based on advice, rerouting so visiting Jodhpur last!

March 10th, 11th Delhi (if flights get me in at 1am on 10th, should I come a day earlier? Not sure yet if flying via London or via Dubai - London arrives 1am, Dubai late morning)

March 12, 13, 14 Jaipur (is Samode Haveli worth it? Jas Villas? Jaipur Friendly Villas? those are the three that appeal)

March 15h leave EARLY for Sher Bagh to do afternoon drive, 1 night at Sher Bagh

March 16th (morning safari at Sher Bagh), drive to Shahpura Bagh (reviews sound really good - do you have thoughts?)

March 17th,18th, 19th Udaipur - 19th is a Sunday - is everything closed? Does it matter? (Jagat Niwas ok?)

March 20th Rawla Narlai

March 21st, 22nd Jodhpur (2 nights better than one, yes?)

March 23rd fly to Delhi from Jodhpur.- have to check flight times for return

I think I can take an afternoon flight from Jodhpur to Delhi, then I'll have to hang around Delhi FOREVER to get 3.40am flight back through London to Boston. Alternately, could spend another night in Delhi and fly out at 11.05am?? Thoughts??

This will work much better if you settle for Jaipur, Jodhpur, Udaipur and Agra and forget the safari (most reports on Indian safaris that I have read have expressed disappointment, not enthusiasm). It would work even better if you dropped one of Jaipur, Jodhpur and Udaipur. You do not want long drives and one nighters in India, it is too intense and travel is too difficult.

1) We had lunch in the courtyard at Samode Haveli in 2009 - loved it! It's a beautiful heritage hotel. We would have stayed there last year, but were guests of a friend, so stayed at the Marriott near the airport.

2) Shapura Bagh is a lovely property. Maya and Sat run a tight ship. Read my report.

3) Jagat Niwas is a fine place to stay. There are no elevators, but the staff will schlep your bags. The rooftop restaurant is enjoyable both at night and during the day. There's another restaurant the next floor down with panoramic views of the lake. Check to make sure there's water in the lake. Fodorites reassured me a couple of weeks before our departure that the lakes were full.

4) The Mehrangarh Fort in Jodhpur is the best fort in Rajasthan. Also try to visit Ossian, a little town right outside Jodhpur, that has several interesting temples.

I agree with thursday's assessment, who is always quite analytical and forthright. I want to elaborate on her comments about logistical difficulties within India.

All of India is in a state of chaos and disrepair. There are cows in the middle of the roads, and while it may seem amusing, a driver must stop and wait until the cow decides to move. The driver may tap his horn, but the cow moves whenever if feels like it. Also, there are potholes and cracks on the roads--we drove back from a wedding one night, and the two hour drive took several hours because of the potholes. I felt like I was on a boat. It is unfair and unsafe to expect a driver to take you on long drives without a chance to rest.

I also agree with thursdays about the safaris. We considered going on one as well, and I did a statistical analysis of the chance of seeing any animals, and it was extremely low. You can see plenty of cows and monkeys all over India, and for the tigers, go to Africa.

My son is also an avid photographer, and he liked Agra and Varanasi the best. In fact, while we were at the Taj, and our guide was resting, we hired a man to show my son various angles for the best photographs. Varanasi is one big costume party, and the pictures turned out amazing.

What would I do with 12 nights? I would do:
Delhi (4 nights)
Agra (2 nights)
Jaipur (3 nights)
Udaipur or Varanasi (3 nights)

What CaliforniaLady said, except that I would add that you really do not want to be on the roads at night. There is no guarantee that the traffic sharing the road with you (random animals, pedestrians, bikes, camel or buffalo drawn carts, cars, buses and very large trucks) will have lights.

There is also no guarantee that the road will be even two lanes wide, or, if it is wider than that, that any of the drivers will follow any lane discipline whatsoever.

BW, most responses suggest going to Agra. Is there a reason you aren't including it? The Taj Mahal just takes your breath away, it's so beautiful. But you must go in the morning before the crowds.

Perhaps you've read my TR from last year-Jaipur didn't appeal to me so much, but if you are a shopper you might want the time there. One of my regrets is that we only had one night in Shapura Bagh, it is really lovely and relaxing. But one night only is better than none and it breaks up the trip between Jaipur and Udaipur. And if your intent is to see a tiger by going to Sher Bagh, skip it because of your limited amount of time. Those safaris are real disappointments and your chances of seeing a tiger are low.

The thing about the Taj is that you think you know what it looks like, but you really don't. Plus you need to see it at dusk as well as dawn, it changes color.

I would definitely skip Ranthambore for the Taj. 3 nights in Udaipur would be great as well and Jagat Niwas is well situated. We had dinner there. Do not be on the roads at night.

Thursdays, you are right on again. The entire Taj is inlaid with jewels, and the pictures make it look plain white. We went at sunset and sunrise, and I wish I could have gone back a third time, after I had a chance to digest what I saw. It is truly the most beautiful building I have ever seen.

In response to FromDC's comment about stopping at Shapura Bagh to break up the journey between Jaipur and Udaipur, an alternative is to fly between Jaipur and Udaipur, which is what we did. I booked all three of our Jet Airways flights via toll-free telephone, and when the prices dropped, they refunded the difference to me.

BW, since your first enquiry ,I and then travel planner VP Singh (of Legends and Palaces) suggested the Taj Mahal. In both your original, and now this thread, other people with great India experience mention it, and ask what in particular makes you hesitate. You may have a perfectly good reason, but please ...let us know what it is. Maybe you have misconceptions, or don't know the ins and outs (haha) of best times to visit. IF you are so close, and with your son who loves photography, why wouldnt you go?--the logistics aren't difficult. See what CaliLady said about her own son's experience?
Yes, it is busy; yes Agra town itself is, like many Northern India cities, crazy chaotic and polluted; yes it is "touristy." So is the Eiffel Tower and my local icon, the Golden Gate Bridge. To make it even more a local comparison...It's kinda like someone on a first trip to California, going to the Napa Wine Valley but giving San Francisco a miss.

said it before and will say it again: imho you can lose night from your three at Jaipur. At it to somewhere else, or Agra. Glad I saw it, bu didn't love Jaipur and my favorite parts were areas away from the most well-known places there. Please, do not miss the Monkey Temple, aka GaltaJi , entering from the top after driving up the hill through a small village.

Ok...I went to India 20 years ago and to the Taj. Figuring this is an intro trip for my son and he will likely return...so skipping it for that reason.

People seem to love Sher Bagh, so I'm curious about those of you suggesting we leave it out...it's pricey, so it's tempting to skip, but the idea of glamour camping sounds fun and I know my son is keen. IF we did leave it out, would you add a night to Delhi?? Or to Udaipur (which for some reason sounds so great I'm tempted...)? Son is also a big shopper, so need to factor that in.

Also, RAAS totally booked in Jodhpur so now thinking Ratan Villas.

Anyone have experience with Jaipur Friendly Villas? Owner sounds lovely (and their Holi celebration really relaxed and small).

Why do you want to go to Sher Bagh? Because it's a luxury camp, or because you want to see tigers? It seems pretty good at the former, but can't guarantee the latter.

I am not particularly a fan of Delhi, so would not add a night there, but you may need to to be sure of making your return flight.

Never been to India, though I love reading threads on the country as I would like to go one day. Been to 12 countries in Africa, many of them multiple times. There are no tigers in Africa as mentioned in one of the threads. There are several cat varieties, but there has never been tigers in Africa. Do not know your chance of tiger sightings in India, but you will definitely never see one in Africa! Good luck with your trip. There are some real experts waying in. Following along to see what you finally decide.

You have more than enough worthy places on your itinerary, but I will weigh in here anyway with an entirely different focus: It is fabulous to visit Kerala and Tamilnadu in the south. There are many temple towns along the route from Chennai to Madurai, and you can stop in Pichavary for a beautiful boat trip through the mangrove backwaters to the coast of the Indian Ocean. From Madurai, head inland through the mountains to Kodaikanal, then Ooty (by narrow-gauge railroad), then Mudumalai Wildlife Refuge where you are more likely to see animals than in most places in India. Then on to Mysore. If you can make it to Kerala, it's a wonderful town on an old spice route. Much more to say about this area! I know it's not in your plans, but I'm just saying...

Why are you just saying? Suggesting the south is a ridiculous distraction when the OP is trying to finalize a northern itinerary. If you have to talk about the south (which I agree is well worth seeing) start your own thread.

Good advice, thursdaysd. I weighed in because of the expressed interest in seeing animals. If that's not very important, then my thoughts here are irrelevant.

Thank you, Lolazahra, for catching my error about the tigers. I learned that tigers are distinct to Asia when I visited the San Diego zoo as a child. I meant to say, "If you want to see animals in the wild, then visit Africa." In fact, those were the exact words of my son when I tried to persuade him to add a tiger safari to our itinerary.

Thanks everyone. I think I've settled on this (and by settled I mean am happy with...but showing to you for final review). I think I have a reliable driver (vetted) and will book direct with hotel and use him (name is Bal, comes via well-travelled person with lots of references). I would love to visit the southern areas, but that's a different trip and I can't get side-tracked.

Per suggestions, I've cut the safari...

March 10th – arrive 1am Delhi on 10th, 11th - Imperial Hotel

March 12, 13, 14 Jaipur - Jaipur Friendly Villas

March 15th drive to Shahpura Bagh

March 16th, 17th Jodhpur - Ratan Villas

March 18th Rawla Narlai

March 19th, 20th, 21st, 22nd Udaipur - Jagat Niwas

Fly Udaipur to Delhi March 23rd

Jet Airway Udaipur 15:30-16:40 or Air India 3.25-4.50 or IndiGo at 7.20pm-8.40pm Del, for a 3am flight to London and then Boston

That looks much better. Although I'm not sure how I feel about flying into Delhi that close to you outbound flight. Do any of those flights arrive at the international terminal? And you know you probably can't get into the terminal until three hours or so before your flight?

Yes, I agree, this is better.

I hope you and your son have a wonderful time!

Six hotels in fourteen nights? This is way too much for me, but since the two divas of the message board, thursdays and Kathie, are standing behind you, I will as well. However, I do have some suggestions...

First, I would add a night in Delhi, and take one away from Jaipur. Although Delhi is not charming or beautiful, there are so many important sites there. My son and I made a list of 23 sites we wanted to see, and then I divided them geographically over three days. We were busy every minute, but we got to all of them. One example we liked was the Lotus Baha'i Temple--the grounds are beautfiul.

Next, you might want to consider staying in Dealhi the first night (maybe at the airport), and then going onward very early in the morning. Then, you can see Delhi at the end of the trip. Alternatively, I would not plan on leaving Udaipur for Delhi within 24 hours of your departure, unless they are on the same ticket. I am not sure where your award is coming from, but are any of the domestic Indian carriers part of the system? If so, then you will be protected.

That's great that you decided to plan independently--it takes a lot of guts. However, have a back-up driver for Bal, in case he flakes out on you. And keep checking his reviews over the next year, in case they decline. Lastly, insist that you don't want to visit every carpet shop known to man.

Also getting a quote from TGS in case I feel too nervous about booking this alone with just a driver (if I were with another adult perhaps I wouldn't question it, but with my son...). I will sat the night in Delhi and leave 11am the next day so I don't risk flight issues. Better? THANKS, all!

Excellent, BW, good work. I agree with the risks of drivers coming out of nowhere. It's one thing when you do day trips with them, but when they drive you all over India, you need to be very careful. So you are in a great position now--you can book your own hotels, and hire an agency just for a driver. Do shop around, though, and get a good price, and also, find out their policy in case you don't like their driver--are you allowed to substitute?

Also, my son and I went to a Bollywood movie in Jaipur. The theater there is all glitzy and modern, and it was lots of fun.

I would encourage you to contact Ramesh Meena, CEO of India by Car and Driver. He and his company are reliable, dependable, and reasonably priced. I've travelled with them both trips I've taken to India:

http://www.indiabycaranddriver.com/

Wise, Boston. But wasnt your outbound flt to London at 3 am? You were able to change, finding FF miles available for a different time? Lucky!! Great!!
You don't even have to go IN to New Delhi. There are, in the last several years, new branches of well known chain hotels a mile or two from airport terminal,e.g. Holiday Inn, Marriott. Not sure if there are free shuttles from the terminal, so check websites.

For the day you depart from the airport, i don't think there is currently a three hour minimum for when you can enter, although at one time there may have been (definitely was at Bangalore). The check in counters open (theoretically!) three hours before the international flights depart, and I entered well before that. Shops are probably glad to have passengers whiling away their time for as many hours as possible before flight departure, spending their last rupees!

There were flights available at 11am on 24th, so I'm booking those and we will leave Udaipur on 23rd and spend the night wherever you think makes sense (would love a decent last trip dinner, but don't think going into Delhi makes sense...?).

And have no convinced my mother (70!) to go to Southern India this November, so probably another post to come!

In terms of a driver - if I have friends who have used a driver they really like and I can hire him on my own, should I just do that with the hotels? Or am I better off with my son going through TGS where we have "back up" for any issues (not only with driver but hotels, problems ,etc)? Is it worth it?

No need for the exclamation point! My last trip to India I was in my 60s, and I was traveling solo. I turn 69 this year and am headed back to Asia, although it won't be India this year. But I still have Simla and Ladakh and Dharamsala on the "places to go" list.

Bostonwriter, to state the complete obvious everyone has a different appetite for risk when the travel abroad and you must work out what feels right for you and your son.

However for me the fact that all the key people in India will speak good English is particularly relevant as neither of you would be left at a complete loss if the worst happened.

I definitely think any lesser and more practical problems with hotels etc could be readily sorted if you take a little contingency money with you and ,for me, there would not be benefit in paying extra to cover these issues.

If you were taken ill or broke your leg or similar I suspect many a 17 year old would be fine [well as fine as if away on territory nearer to home] particularly if given a back up phone contact with trusted person at home and a good insurance plan that has medical help and advice available as needed but I guess this scenario is the main factor you will need to assess in making your choice.

These are remote possibilities though and it sounds like you are going to have a really amazing time however you play it.

You should not travel anywhere, never mind India, without medical insurance and medical evacuation and repatriation insurance.

Any particular med/evac insurance you suggest? We will def do this, but would appreciate a lead.

I use Seven Corners, but for shorter trips tenweb.com should be fine.

In addition to above, see insuremytrip.com and traveinsurancereview.net

Both these websites have good info on different kinds of insurance and coverage. For example, for me getting back home asap in case there's a family emergency is a high priority. Tell the service rep at insuremytrip this kind of thing, and they'll help you chose. I've used CSA several times and when they had to reimburse a sizable chunk from a trip I had to delay due to family member hospitalization,

If you look at the company reviews on insuremytrip, ignore those (the majority) that say things ike, "nicel rep at XYZ company." Look only for those who've actually had to USE the company for a problem. Travel insurancereview also has company reviews, including from those who've used it.

Insuremytrip will intervene on your behalf if you have problems with the company you've chosen from them.

As for directly getting a refund from a hotel if you've had to pre-pay in advance (some require 50% deposit, for example)... be very clear in advance on their cancellation policy. Won't bore you here with all my assorted anecdotes, but know the policy if, for example, you don't like the place once you arrive. There are some things gorgeous photos can't show (and other reviewers may not care about--like a beautiful, try stunning home in Hanoi that reeked of damp and mold spores--my travel agent after one night saved my $ and my lungs!)
This, by the way, is partly why I use a travel agent in long "non-Western" country trips --there have been issues with hotels in four different countries where the agent intervened to get back $, change hotel, or get a decent room. Everyone has different stories,and opinions on this, but for me, having a great agent IS the first step in "insurance" ...and does NOT necessarily cost more. (Yadayyadayada said before, i think on your other thread...--apologies for repetition)

Bostonwriter I am from the UK and we are always guided by "Which" an very reliable independent consumer website which fully assesses travel insurance companies each year and rates them. You do have to pay to get their reports but worth it.

http://www.which.co.uk/money/insuran...vel-insurance/

I suspect this is of no help to you as you are US based but thought I would add a note of it in case fellow UK members are reading along!

Ok - final pricing question. TGS price for driver/tour for about 1100 USD which gives me the safety net of his experience/problem sorting, questions that arise, etc OR I have a driver through a friend who is about 800$. Hotels booked on my own. Which would you do??