Help Kathie plan her first trip to Japan
 

This seems to be the year for those of us who haven't been to Japan to make the leap. We are now working on a plan for two weeks in Japan in November. We know we want to start with 3 nights in Tokyo and end with 5 nights in Koyto.

Here is what Hawaiian Traveller recommended:
Tokyo - 3 nights (Hyatt)
Kanazawa - 3 ights
Koyasan - 1 night maybe 2
Nara - 2 nights
Kyoto - 5 nights

I'm not so sure about a single night in Koyasan - I would tend to add a night if we could, or cut it and add one more night to Nara. We are most interested in temples and gardens. We will want one stay in a roykan/onsen somewhere and I look forward to your suggestions about where.

We would love to overlap a bit with other Fodorites traveling to Japan, but I don't know yet if that will work out. We will be making our flight reservations in the next week or so, so will have firm dates and firm number of days/nights by then.

I've ordered recommended guidebooks and have lots of research to do. I'd appreciate any suggestions you might have.

I like this plan! I particularly like that you are spending 2 nights in Nara in addition to your 5 nights in Kyoto - that's what I did, and I was very glad to have had that much time in the area.

I found one night on Koyasan sufficient for my needs and interests, and I would urge you not to cut it from your plans - it is magical! Be sure to visit Okuno-in, preferably at dusk or dawn (or both!)

I found Japan Solo the most helpful of the many guidebooks I used. I believe it is out of print, but maybe you can find a used copy somewhere?

Enjoy!

Wow, it really is the Year of Japan here in Fodorville. I love it!

Happy to hear you'll be there around the same time as us. Here's the hoping for a little overlap so we can all grab a sake together and talk all things travel!

Best of luck planning -- I'll be following this thread closely!

Kathie, our dates are 10/22 - 11/6. Rhk and HT are arriving a couple of days later. As you know filmwill is arriving a couple of weeks later. I have actually been looking at spending a night in Nara and now I see you are looking at 2. Am I missing something?

I think one night in Koyasan is fine, but do be careful about which temple you stay in.

I didn't visit Nara, but I really enjoyed visiting Ogimachi, Takayama and Matsumoto between Kanazawa and Tokyo. Can you manage more time?

We are at the very beginning of figuring out this trip. We l prefer not to have any single night stays, but so far the vote seems to be to do a single night at Koyasan. Thursdays, please recommend a temple to stay in. I worry a bit about the sleeping arrangements being so hard that I'll be in pain the next day.

Craig, we like to linger over temples, castles and gardens. Nara looks to have plenty to keep us occupied. The problem with a first trip to Japan is to get some variety, but to get enough depth of experience to appreciate it. It's a difficult balance.

I do hope our dates will intersect with other Fodorites, and we'd like to experience the koyo somewhere along the way.

I vote for two nights at Koyasan - if you are coming from Kanazawa it is almost a five hour trip - by the time you get there you won't have much time to look around and then you need to check out in the morning to continue to your next stop. Koyasan is a pretty out of the way place - even from Shin Osaka it takes almost two hours. I wouldn't shortchange yourselves there - quite a bit to see in addition to the cemetery....

I spent two nights there as I came from Miyajima and went on to Tokyo afterwards....

looking good

Koyasan is a tough call. For some visitors it's a highlight. For others it a disappointment (reasons I've encountered are too touristy, uncomfortable, felt fake, food a disappointment, too expensive for what you get). It's actually a minority of people in my experience who loved their time there. There are other options for temple stays that can be explored.

In Koyasan, I was very pleased with Shojoshin-in:
http://www.japaneseguesthouses.com/d...hojoshinin.htm

When I was there (2006) this particular temple was not too touristy, was extremely comfortable, felt authentic, and served truly outstanding cuisine (some of the best food I ate in Japan, and I trust you realize that means it was very tasty indeed). It was worth every penny, even though I was on a fairly tight budget at the time. The temple and its grounds were gorgeous and the monks could not have been more gracious. It was a highlight for me in a trip that held many highlights.

Although one needs to check out in the morning, you can leave your luggage with them while you explore the area. And as Mara says, there is a great deal more to see than just Okuno-in.

Given the amount of time it takes to get there I would recommend two nights in Koyasan. It truly is a magical place. We stayed at Eko In which was in avery good location not far from Okonuin ( make sure to visit at night) There is a "free" English speaking guide service in the town which we found to be excellent ( donation ) . Like you, I was a little concerned about the effects of sleeping on the floor on my back but just ask for an extra futon. I found it very comfortable and slept like a baby.

Kyoto was amazing. You could easily spend a couple of weeks there and not see it all. Nara was ok but I much preferred Takayama. The ryokan we stayed in there was a highlight of our time in Japan.

Kathie I think you are spending too much time in Kyoto and I wonder why Kanazawa is so interesting.

Anyway, you are leaving out very important places such as Hiroshima and Miyajima.

I also did a two weeks trip to Japan in 2007. Check out my travelowgue:
http://www.molon.de/travelogues/Japan/2007/
and the pics:
http://www.molon.de/galleries/Japan/

I was in Japan in November a few years ago, and it was the perfect time to go. The weather was sunny and cool, and the fall colors were amazing. Our itinerary worked well for us (we are interested in gardens, museums, temples, etc. and not at all in shopping):

11/12 arrive Narita. Keio Plaza Hotel, Tokyo
11/13 Tsukiji fish market, Tokyo sights
11/14 Tokyo. Hakone (do on weekday) day trip
11/15 Tokyo. Hama Rikyu Garden, Asakusa. Asakusa, Sensoji Temple. Tokyo National Museum. Edo-Tokyo museum.
11/16 Tokyo. Day trip to Nikko
11/17 Tokyo. Day trip to Kamakura
11/18 Tokyo. Meiji Jingu Shrine and Harajuku
11/19 Train to Kyoto (peak fall color in Kyoto around 11/18-19). Kyoto Brighton Hotel
11/20 Kyoto. walk through eastern Kyoto. Sanjusangendo Hall. Kiyomizu Temple.
11/21 Kyoto. Temple of the Silver Pavilion. Philosopher’s Pathway. Heian Shrine. Tyoanji Temple. Golden Pavilion. Kyoto Handicraft Center. Tenjin-san market at Kitano Tenmangu Shrine.
11/22. Train to Kurashiki. Night in Kurashiki. Hotel Nikko Kurashiki
11/23 Train to Hiroshima (1 hr), then ferry (45 minutes) to Miyajima. Stay at Momiji-so ryokan.
11/24 Morning on Miyajima-see park, then ferry to Hiroshima. Night in Hiroshima.
11/25. train Hiroshima to Kyoto. Hyatt Regency Hotel.
11/26 Kyoto. Day Trip to Nara
11/27 Kyoto: day trip from Kyoto to Miho Museum.

I did not originally plan to break up our stay in Kyoto. Despite planning this trip many months in advance, I could not find any hotels in Kyoto for the weekend in November we planned to stay there. I should emphasize that "any". I started looking at 3-4 star hotels, then expanded to 5-star and 2-star, then expanded to absolutely anything and there was NOTHING. November is a peak travel and wedding month in Japan in general and Kyoto in particular. The only reason we stayed in the hotel we did (Brighton) is because that is all I could find (it was very nice, but location was a little out of the way), and we took the weekend trip to Hiroshima because I couldn't find any place to stay in Kyoto for that weekend. We hadn't originally planned to go to Hiroshima, but it ended up working out well, and I particularly enjoyed going to Miyajima-see park and staying in the ryokan in the park.

One other note: We really enjoyed the day trip to Hakone. You might consider staying there overnight and then going on to your next stop rather than doing it as a day trip from Tokyo.

Hope this helps!

<b>Kathie</b> - I'm afraid I can only help with where NOT to stay in Koya-san (Rengejo-in):

http://mytimetotravel.wordpress.com/...e-at-koya-san/

I agree with KimJapan that it's a slog to get to, and if you're sure you'll be back you could easily skip it on a first trip. However, you should have an easier time than I did finding temples and ryokans to stay in as there are two of you.

Are you Art Nouveau fans? If so, don't forget the museum in Takayama:

http://mytimetotravel.wordpress.com/...u-in-takayama/

Also, do make use of the Greeter service. The full-moon-watching ceremony my Greeter took me to outside Kyoto was a highlight of the trip.

<b>amln</b> - I found plenty to do in Kanazawa. Besides the big and beautiful Kenrokuen gardens, which can easily occupy most of a day, there is a well-presented historic section, with houses to visit and assorted activities, and a good market. Maybe helped that I found some delicious okonomiyaki at Kotatsu - I ate there twice and was greeted as a regular the second time. (And Kanazawa is home to a lovely Fodorite family.)

Thanks to all of you for feedback and suggestions. This is a first trip to Japan. We obviously won't cover all of the highlights!

I'm not sure about Koyasan, but appreciate other suggestions from you if we choose to substitute another place for it.

As far as too much time in Kyoto, when I planned my first trip years ago, I was going to spend a week there! I'm not sure there is such a thing as too much time in Kyoto.

Great first plan! ;)

If not sure about Koyasan means you will save it for another trip you might use that time for an Izu ryokan night or two on your way back to NRT(if you will be going this route).

Your last night in Japan could be spent at one of these places with easy train access back to Narita for your evening flight back to the US. Linda and I have been to Amagiso with its seven waterfalls, abundant hiking trails and river side rotenburo and have always wanted to experience the service, shear beauty and luxiurious futon(no back aches here) at Arai which we have planned in that long list of places to see that we all have.

http://japaneseguesthouses.com/db/shizuoka/arai.htm

http://japaneseguesthouses.com/db/shizuoka/amagiso.htm

Just throwing out suggestions ;)

Aloha!

HT, you are reading my mind. It will be complicated to fly out of KIX or ITM, while we have a non-stop between Seattle and Narita. So I was going to ask where we might stop between Kyoto and Narita for an overnight. Both of the places you mention look fabulous, though I hesitate to ask how much they cost.

Keep the ideas coming!

There are generally very good connections ITM to NRT international flights, but you should book it as one ticket to get the protection of single ticketing in the event of misconnect. ITM is much easier than KIX because it's both smaller and closer.

You could also do Tokyo on each end of your trip like a sandwich.

> I'm not sure about Koyasan, but appreciate other suggestions from you if we choose to substitute another place for it.

Others have already mentioned Hiroshima / Miyajima, and Takayama. You could also consider Nikko and Lake Chuzenji.

Fodorites are the best! Thanks for so many great suggestions. I have lots of research to do and I'll be back with more questions.

I think your plan is a good one. Kyoto is a lovely city -- I especially enjoyed Sanjusangendo temple and Ginkakuji. Be sure to wander around the Gion Corner area in early evening to see the geishas. I thought we actually stayed longer in Kyoto, but I pulled out my journal and see that we only stayed 4 nights, and we spent one day going to Hiroshima (very worthwhile).

I am another one who loved our one night in Koyasan when we were there in 2005. Walking thru the cemetery after dark and participating in the Buddhist service at dawn were highlights of our 2-week trip. We also stayed at Shojoshin-in. As kja said the monks were more than accommodating.

In Nara, we loved our stay at Seikan-so Ryokan -- beautiful traditional room with a balcony overlooking the gorgeous garden, and we were able to have private use of the common bath which was ideal.

http://www.nara-ryokanseikanso.com/en/index.html

We liked Nikko too. Japan is very special and one of my favorites!

Kathie,
Japan can be addictive, we went on our first trip there in 2000 and have been back four times since! In addition I started taking Japanese classes for our first trip 13 years ago and have continued...hope you have a wonderful time!
you have always provided us with great trip rec's in southeast asia thanks!

Kathie, outside of Tokyo is a place called Kama Kura,(spelling) an amazing place, look it up. Also up in the mountains out side of Kyoto there is an ancient monastery, not considered on the tourist track, ask someone will know about it, they have a flame for Peace that has been burning continuously for century's, I have been there twice and leave feeling clean. Sendai is also wonderful although the coast is still a very sad place to see after the tsunami and of course if t=you could make it to kobe you would love it. Each part of Japan specializes in certain Japanese food. And Narita city is always a sweet place to walk around if you have a long layover, they have some great Noodle shops. Have fun

Thanks to everyone for their good wishes and good ideas. We have plane tickets, now will be the fun of deciding exactly where to go. It looks like we have an extra day over what I thought originally, so we will have the luxury of adding rather than editing.

I suggest changing the order to: Kanazawa -> Nara -> Koyasan, mostly because of the travel time from Kanazawa to Koyasan but also because you will have a 2-night stay in Nara.

Kanazawa to Koyasan, as mentioned above, is about a 5-hour trip and it is a bit complicated (3 trains and a cablecar). Traveling to Nara is shorter and easier.

I can't comment on Koyasan except to say that I haven't been there in 8 trips to Japan. If I were to travel 5 hours to get to Koyasan (I wouldn't, but if) then I would stay two nights.

Will you visit Shirakawago from Kanazawa?

Wait a second. Kathie is considering a one-night stay!

My understanding is that Kamakura has a lot of temples for you. You might want to check out emd's links about Ohara on filmwill's Japan thread.

MrW, I've decided against Koyasan. So right now the proposed schedule looks like:

Tokyo - 3 nights
Kanazawa - 3 ights
Nara - 2 nights
Kyoto - 5 nights
1 night in a Ryokan between Kyoto and Narita

We now have one more night. What to do with it? We could add it to Tokyo as there is so much to do and see there, or add a day trip from Tokyo or even add a one-night stop somewhere (but I'd prefer not to have one-night stops).

I don't have all the details on what we will do in each place - Shirakawago is a possibility from Kanazawa. I will look into Kamakura and Ohara.

I ordered Gateway to Japan, and it was supposed to arive yesterday. Instead, I received an email saying it was sold out, so I re-ordered it (at a higher price, of course) and hope to have it early next week. So while I am reading lots on the web, I don't have the guidebook I want yet. I did receive the Kyoto guidebook Don Topaz recommended.

Ohara is lovely and is easily visited from Kyoto.

Warm greetings Kathie - and early congratulations on your forthcoming initial journey to Japan. As I recently wrote to the esteemed filmwill, I'm confident you will have so much fun in the land of the rising sun. I've truly savoured each and every all-too-short business and occasional holiday visit. (And I do wish to thank you Kathie, for your ongoing visits to our fine home of Singapore. Appears you are already sorted with your Japan flights; in future, would be honoured to offer (always unbiased) counsel concerning my primary business travel carrier, Singapore Airlines. Not too long ago, I helped plan a SQ J-Class round-the-world adventure for a recently retired cousin and his wife. Perhaps for your retirement celebration...)

Bit rushed on this (Changi) flying morning, but a few Japan thoughts for you. Suspect you are already set with Tokyo lodging; will still give the highest praise to the Peninsula (holiday stay) and the Park Hyatt (work). Re Kyoto, Kita Antiques, presently overseen by the younger Mr. Kita. As I conveyed to filmwill, the Kita family and my rather far-flung family (and ancestors) have a history going back 60+ years. One of the numerous joys of living in, and travelling to, wondrous lands. That Kita connection lives on in our Singapore home.

Your timing is off (not that you probably care) for my all-time cherished Japan moment of ascending to the top of Fuji-san, 20+ years back. (Then, I've always loved all things mountains and mountaineering, including a joyous ascent of your neighbour, Mt. Ranier; I've always enjoyed my times in Seattle.)

If you detect some Japanese enthusiasm from me, well, looks quite promising that I'll be returning to Tokyo (via SQ) next month for a few days of meetings; been a while. And, if all goes well, perhaps an add-on holiday weekend with the loved one, work/flight schedules permitting.

Savour your planning and early Chinese New Year greetings to you and all. Looks as though I'll be away from Singapore for work until next Thursday, then home and a few SIN celebrations await. Good travel,

macintosh (robert)


... Singapore Girl, You're a Great Way to Fly ...

Kathie,

As for your extra day, I'd just add it to Tokyo - it's a great city, you won't regret it. You could do the day trip to Hakone as others have suggested - that was one of my favorite days in Japan for sure.

I was interrupted before I could complete my earlier message....

Ohara is lovely, an easy 1/2 day (or more) trip from Kyoto (about an hour each way). I thought Sanzenin particularly pleasant.
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e3932.html
(Much as I enjoyed my time in Arishiyama, I think I liked my time in Ohara even better!)

I thoroughly enjoyed my day trip from Tokyo to Kamakura (or more precisely, a day trip from Tokyo with a first stop in Kita Kamakura, followed by a walk through various temples to Kamakura, and then a train to Hase, ending with the Daibutsu). (See japan-guide.com for lots of helpful info.)

FWIW, I thought the temples in and around Kamakura less different than those I had seen in Kyoto, Nara, Kanazawa, and Tokyo than would be the case with some of your other options. If you want to maximize the uniqueness of the things you see, then I think better choices would be either

(a) Miyajima (perhaps with a stop in Hiroshima if you have any interest) or
(b) Nikko and Lake Chuzenji (which you can do as a day trip from Tokyo, but which I think is better suited to an overnight).

Also, if you do consider Miyajima, you might consider staying overnight in Momiji-so, a ryokan that isn't quite as formal and is much more affordable than most - but absolutely lovely and with superb food. It's set beside a small running creek in a forested area within an easy walking distance of the town (of course, they'll pick you and and drop you off), and it is surrounded by Japanese maples ("momiji") and other trees, so it should be lovely in fall. Just a thought!
http://japaneseguesthouses.com/db/miyajima/momijiso.htm

I know you aren't wild about the idea of a one-night stay, but you could stop in Hiroshima for the Peace Park and Peace Museum (both truly impressive, IMHO), then take the ferry to Miyajima. Before leaving, you can take the cable car to the top of Mt. Misan, visit Itsukushima Shrine at both low and high tides, etc.

Wonderful ideas, kja. I will look into all of them. I have been playing with the idea of adding the day to Tokyo, then doing a day trip to Nikko. Miyajima looks good as well. This is obviously just a first trip, and the ideas we don't use for this trip, we can use on a future trip.

I do hope my comments are helpful as you choose which places to make part of this journey! For me, that's always the hardest part of trip planning - winnowing the wish list.

BTW, while in Nara, do consider going to Ikaruga for Horyu-ji and Chugu-ji. The Amida Buddha at Chugu-ji is, IMHO, truly exquisite. And in Nara itself, the statutes at the Kofuku-ji Treasure House and the Nara National Museum are stunning.

Kathie, I second the idea of adding another day in Tokyo--and not just because I grew up there. The city is so varied and interesting that you would be giving it short shrift otherwise. I'm sure you will visit such well-worn spots as Sensoji and Meiji Shrine/Omotesando. (Must-sees on Omotesando include KiddyLand, the FAO Schwartz of Japan, and the Oriental Bazaar, one of the few places that still sells good postcards as well as scarves, porcelain and other gifts.) But I would also recommend a visit to a Japanese department store such as Mitsukoshi, Isetan or Tokyu. All of them have great housewares departments where you can buy laquerware, textiles and other gifts, and they are great places to eat, having food courts and excellent, reasonable-priced restaurants. You might want to check out Tokyo City View at the top of Mori Tower in Roppongi Hills to see the vastness of the Tokyo Metropolitan area. For a change from the bustle of Roppongi, check out Daikanyama, my old neighborhood, which boasts boutiques, cafes, restaurants and walkable streets. Apparently the Tokyo branch of Eataly is there, but you'll also find terrific Italian food in Ebisu Station. (Train stations throughout Japan are good places to eat, whether or not you are in transit, and the food is usually cheaper than elsewhere.) I hope this has been helpful, and that you will have a wonderful time!

Many congratulations on buying your tickets! I'm vaguely thinking of leaving for SA in early May, and have done nothing, nothing.... (I'm very busy winnowing the photos from the last trip).

Unlike kinpatsu I didn't care at all for Tokyo and have minimal interest in gong back, while there are other parts of Japan that are high on my list - the other islands, the Alps, revisiting Kanazawa....

So lovely to read about those in the process of planning their first trips to Japan. I was in same boat not long ago and we enjoyed our first trip in October. I still think about it most days and am reliving it by (gradually) writing posts about it for my food blog (Kavey Eats). Incidentally, I've shared my itinerary, web resources list, what to expect staying in a ryokan and several posts about meals so far but have many many more to come.

We did include Koyasan in our itinerary and loved it, though it's a bit of a pain to get to. And some of the trains aren't covered by the JR Pass. The last segment is a beautiful journey, rising up through the mountains. Then you transfer onto a funicular (they call it a cable car but it's a funicular) for the last bit up to town. And then the local bus to your temple. We stayed at the Shojoshin-in which we enjoyed. We paid a little more for the private hanare residence with private bathroom and were very happy with that decision. We had a very good dinner, served in the main temple building - each party was assigned a separate room. There was no meditation session offered at all, but we observed morning prayers before breakfast. We didn't feel it was fake at all and there were Japanese guests who were whispering some of the prayers along with the monks, and holding their prayer beads. Incidentally, our temple was right next to the entrance to the cemetery which made it much easier to visit during the evening.

Our favourite place was Kyoto and we enjoyed our 5 nights there. We could have spent another few days easily. We also did an overnight in Nara, which we found delightful. Touristy, with vast numbers of school parties and other visitors, playing with the semi-tame deer, but so fun and cheering. Our ryokan there was a delight, and the best meal of the entire trip, but we were spoiled too by being the only visitors there that night, and being assigned the ground floor garden room, with stunning full windows onto the moss gardens.

Takayama was fantastic, but our visit was during their annual autumn festival. I wonder if you could combine it with your Kanazawa visit, 1 night in Takayama and 2 in Kanazawa? I do enjoy gardens but we decided against Kanazawa for this visit. There were so many beautiful green places anyway.

I agree that an extra day in Tokyo would be easy to use well. Tokyo has so much to see and it's so vast, there isn't one town centre but several. You could easily spend a whole day in the Asakusa area, another whole day by Shinjuku, a half day at Tsukiji and there's so much more.

I didn't warm to Osaka but we only spent half a day and a single night there. I am aware that's not a fair chance and I'd go back to find out why so many others love it so much.

Pleased we had our short visit to Hiroshima and then the afternoon and overnight in Miyajima. We travelled back from there all the way to Tokyo but given the ease of travel on the JR trains, that wasn't a tiring journey at all.

If I can clarify anything about our experience, let me know. x

If you have a Japan Rail Pass, which you should buy, you can easily do a day trip from Kyoto to Himeji for the castle which was one of the settings used in Shogun. You could see the castle in the morning, then continue on to Kurashiki in the afternoon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurashiki,_Okayama

Kurashiki is a very artistic city with a charming central canal district. You could head back to Kyoto in the evening. it would be a long day but you will enjoy Himeji castle and Kurashiki. I lived in Kurashiki for a year in 1989 while on the JET Program, and everyone was jealous of my being able to live there. If you have time for lunch or dinner in Kurashiki I can point you to my all time favorite restaurant in the world, a yakitori place called Takadaya. Oishiikatta.

Great information, everyone! Thanks so much. We have lots to consider.

I believe that Himeji-jo is still undergoing renovations:
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e3501.html

Might still be worth seeing, but do check into it.

I agree that Kurashiki is charming and worth a few hours, especially if it is convenient, perhaps on the way to or from Miyajima.

I think November, particularly early November is a nice time to visit Japan. I agree with Kinpatsu that you do not have enough time in Tokyo. This is especially true if you would like to visit Nara, Hakone or Kamakura. I think 5 days is a lot for Kyoto but as I know you like Wats perhaps this is alright. You can easily visit Nara and Himeji from Kyoto.