Help for India itinerary!!
 

So, we are planning our trip in late Nov/early Dec to India and Nepal. We have much of the trip organized but have 2 extra days to 'play around with' and include in the following:

What do you recommend? What should we add? More time in one of our choosen citie? Day trip? We feel good about our time in New Delhi, Agra and Nepal. We are really hopin gto find some day trips or other close by places so we aren't on trains or planes any more than we already are. We are fast travelers and don't need to spend days upon days in one place (I know some of you will say we need more time for the entire trip, but really I know we don't). We are not interested in going to Udaipur. Anything close to Varnasi that is doable in 1 day?

Arrive in New Delhi in pm. Spend 3 days
Agra: 1 1/2 days
Jaipur: 2 days
Amristar: 1 1/2 days
Varanasi: 2 1/2 days

Fly to Kathmandu and have 7 days in Nepal

"I know some of you will say we need more time for the entire trip, but really I know we don't"

So....this is your first trip to India? My first thought is if you already "know" then we can likely be of little use to you here. I'm glad you feel good. India will set you straight.

How are you getting from place to place? Do you understand how long travel takes within India?

I'd highly recommend that you not add more destinations. From what you have written you don't have time to see the places you've listed - even if you are "fast travelers."

Kathie-
We will be taking a train from New Delhi to Agra. Arriving at 8:-6am in Agra. Train from Agra to Jaipur- arriving at 9:30 am. Flying from Jaipur to Amritsar arriving at 10:20am. Flying from Amritsar to varanasi arriving at 11:30am. Flying from Varanasi to Kathmandu midday.
We assume that arriving to a new city in the morning will give us at least 4-5 hours in the afternoon and evening to see some sites.

MmePerdu- Do you have anything helpful to add about possible day trips or valid ideas? I just know that in the past when I have posted on forums people think we are going to fast on our trips, but we have been traveling the world a few weeks for the past 10 years and have never been disappointed in the time we have choose to stay in places.

What are the top places you would recommend for our trip

"MmePerdu- Do you have anything helpful to add...?

Sometimes help comes in ways you don't know you need, such as now. When you ask for help from those of us with loads of experience traveling in the places you ask about, and then say you "know", when it's clear you don't, the best thing for you is to help you understand that fact. Travel in India is more fraught, I suspect, than anywhere else you've gone to date. If you make your way around at breakneck speed, you miss the most worthwhile aspects of being in India, the detail, only apparent when you slow down.

With the attitude that travel is travel and you've done it all before, the best favor I could do is to possibly get you to consider that this might be a different sort of trip than your experience is dictating. Adding day trips to what you have already is beside the point. If only you knew. I suggest you just carry on, as is, and then come back for a decent visit another time. I also suggest you not have an attitude about what's said here or, again, you'll miss what's most valuable to you.

Ok, good, it sounds like you have sorted out your transportation.

Saranath is a reasonable day trip from Varanasi.

This thread is a good reminder for me that in travel, as in life, how a thing is done will certainly be different for different people. There are ways in which I live my life that the OP would no doubt consider "lite", not done as they'd do it. So just because I think it's a dumb way to see India, doesn't mean it will turn out that way for the OP.

I once lived in an historic district and there was a committee that decided what changes to buildings would be allowed, including even paint color. I had a very tasteful friend who was a designer and was on the committee. He took a very liberal view concerning people's desires for their homes, saying "everyone should be allowed to have bad taste". Which is an opinion without trying to impose his will.

It's clear that there are different kinds of tourists/travelers. Some go to learn and see what's there, some go to have preconceptions verified or not and some go with their bucket list in mind. I don't know which these are, nor does it matter. However, when asking for information on a forum, we also get opinion, I don't know how it can be avoided. We all think our way is the right way. What I should do, rather than rant, is choose to answer only those posts that exhibit some indication that we have some point of style in common. I apologize for trying to impose my will, as in this, as in purple houses, you should have what you want without undue criticism.

Thanks Kathie- I'll look into it.

What are the airports like in India in terms of security waiting times, check in times etc...

What do you think about our transportation? Overnight trains sound dreadful to us so we didn't opt for taking any.

In my experience in India, the airports are chaos.

Are you having a local agent put this together for you? I do recommend it, especially since you are scheduling this so closely. An agent will make sure you get from place to place. And once you get there, to get you to your hotel and to the sights you want to see. I wouldn't count on the flights being on time.

I can't help you with your last two stops, Amristar: 1 1/2 days & Varanasi: 2 1/2 days, but I think you could use another day in Jaipur and a day driving from Agra to Jaipur.

Delhi and Jaipur Airports are congested as is city traffic so it does take up touring time to get started once in Jaipur or any of the cities.

We loved Jaipur and would have liked more time there. We arrived by car and driver about 5 pm and had the next full day and the following day until about 2 pm when we headed back to Delhi. You will lose most of the morning just getting started in Jaipur. It is a huge spread out city with very interesting parts.

We drove, Delhi to Agra, left at 8 and made our first stop in Agra at about 11 then visited the Fort and checked into our hotel at ~2, Lots of people do the train and find it interesting, but we enjoyed the drive...it is a new good highway with no traffic. A day and a half in Agra is more than enough time to see Taj at sunrise and sunset plus the other interesting sites.

If you fly to Jaipur, you will miss one of the places we really liked, Fatehpur Sikri, I would suggest you look in to driving from Agra to Jaipur...that is a fascinating trip and a real look into the countryside. Plus you can visit a wonderful old step well, Chand Baorior, in a tiny village before getting to Jaipur. There is also the monkey temple along the way if you are interested in temples.

Take a look at our day by day blog with pictures. We were there April 2013 and visited three cities, Delhi, Agra and Jaipur spending 6 nights total...a very fast trip. I was determined to see the Taj. DH had no interest in going to India period, so would only agree to a short trip...I crammed as much as I could into our days and he loved every minute, much to his surprise!!!

www.springmix3013.blogspot.com Go to the botton of the write up and click on April 12 to read about our time in India.

Kathie is right...using an agent at least for the transportation part of your trip helps smooth out wrinkles when they happen.

Thanks for the link to your blog cwn, I just read about your time in India. I remember that intersection outside Agra very well, our trip was in March 2012, so they still haven't fixed it !
It is amazing to experience the road chaos.
We were lucky (?) enough to witness the aftermath of a traffic bingle, tour bus T-boned a 4WD. 60 or so men armed with big sticks were soundly thrashing the bus, 6 had hold of the door handle trying to force it open. Our driver said that only the bus driver would get beaten up, the passengers wouldn't be harmed - unless of course the broken glass got them !
I guess what I'm getting at Europe2011, is that you might enjoy at least one car journey. There's really nothing like driving in India.

Cwn- thanks for the tips. Still reading through your blog, but so far it is wonderful!! Very helpful and great to see your trip!

Hiring a driver is an idea we didn't really explore and now sounds like it would be wonderful. How much was it to hire Rishi? Where did you hire him from? Hotel? Agency?

So, the drive from Delhi to Agra is 3 hours or so? And the drive from Agra to Jaipur is around 4-5 hours?

What do you guys mean by "using an agent for transportation needs"? Do you mean hiring a driver? Do you mean booking trains/flight though an agent rather than on our own? We were planning on booking trains/planes on our own. If we hire a driver, which sounds like a great idea, we will need to figure that our. Hopefully with your help and input.

What we're getting at is that all transport in India is subject to delay/cancellation. If you have used an Indian travel agent to book flights, trains etc, they will help when things go pear shaped.

If you contact several agents with your proposed itinerary, asking for quotes, you might be surprised at how little is the difference in cost from what you can book yourself. Then you have the peace of mind knowing you won't be stranded on some random platform.

Worth the exercise I think.

Most on this board are self planners and widely travelled, but India is a whole different ball game.

We have never booked any part of any trip with an agent so this is a new idea for us. Do you mean contact a travel agent locally in US? I just am not sure what you mean. Also, why wouldn't we get stranded on some random platform if we book with an agent? (Not even sure what that means...)

europe2011....We used India by Car and Driver and Ramesh (the owner) arranged for our car and driver and guides at any of the sites we felt we wanted one. We had the same driver for the whole six days and it was ~$450 total including the two guides we had, cooler with ice water,tolls, gas, a local cell phone to call our driver or the Agent in case we needed something and a comfortable clean new SUV. As you see our guide took good care of us and was so very nice! Others on this board have used Castle and Kings and liked them also/

By "transportation needs" we mean cars trains and planes...Things can really go sideways in India so I would think you would want someone to call to sort the mess out. I did!

The agents will also arrange for hotels at any price level you ask for, but we were a bit timid about putting our trip all in one person's hands as we normally travel independently. So I arranged direct with the Oberroi for a great package deal.

The agent asked if he could price the hotel package also and was $200 cheaper for the same deal, but my Doubting Thomas (DH) was uncomfortable with that so I went with the hotel direct for his peace of mind....remember he didn't want to go! Most people told me the Indian agents can do better on the hotel price, but I liked paying the hotels direct.

From Agra to Jaipur took us from abut 8:30 when we finally left the hotel until just after 5 when we arrived at our hotel in Jaipur. That was one of the best days...glad we drove that leg. The stretch between Delhi and Agra and Jaipur and Delhi is much tamer, shorter driving time with interesting scenery, but nothing much to actually stop for...unless it is a Hindu funeral procession!

Agra to Jaipur took all day because we made a long stop at Fatehpur Sikri where our agent provided a guide. It is a great place....the only tourist there that day were Indians dressed to the nines out seeing their country. On the shuttle bus back down to the parking lot we had some wonderful interaction with them. We stopped at a very nice clean restaurant (the hotel had packed a lunch for us so we got drinks and a sweet) around 1pm and then at the step well which is very interesting as is the temple across the street. We were shown around by a local there. It was so worth the all day drive just to see rural India.

sartoric Thanks for the compliment on the blog.. the driving through India was one of the things my DH loved the most, but then he hates the pressure of meeting plane and train schedules and the hassle of dealing with the security checks.

Yes. the intersection is still there and the train was stopped on the tracks making it worse! But it is classic India!!!

We are talking about contacting an Indian agent. A US agent just adds another layer that is rather useless in India. If you are using flights and one gets canceled, call the agent and they will sort it out for you and get you on your way a lot easier and probably faster than you could do it yourself. There are lots of layers in India that we in the US are not use to dealing with.

This was the first trip I have ever used an agent for and it was the best thing I did. I used an Indian company and paid them in cash when we got to Jaipur, more than half way through the trip! Needless to say I was a bit out of my comfort zone, but it was no different from many reports I had read on Fodors. In 10 years of using help from the board, I have not been disappointed. We tend to travel "fast" by most Fodors' standards, but the basic travel information is the same whether you spend 2 days or two weeks.

Europe2011, you still may be stranded on a random platform, but you will have a local agent to sort out an alternative. I did say an Indian travel agent, no use in adding an extra layer as cwn says.

I've never used an agent before either, and have traveled to many third world countries. India is just so different to anywhere else.

Castle and Kings is highly recommended on this board, there is also the one cwn recommend.
We used Target Tours, which was fine.

Given that your trip is a few months away, what could it hurt to get some quotes for comparison ?

PS - a train platform.

I completely agree that it's a good idea to have an agent in India. Traveling in India is not like traveling in Europe or even other parts of SE Asia. It might be doable on your own, but the potential for difficulties and challenges is much higher and having someone who is your contact person provides a level of security and ease.

We are also independent travelers and found it odd that we would need an agent, but like the others have said, so glad we did. There were a few snafus which got resolved quickly and easily, but it's also the idea that there is someone in the background -- India really ISN"T like other places, and it's a good feeling to know someone is there.

We used TGS Jaipur -- we were very happy with this company - . A few others on this board have used them, too. There are other companies that have been used by other Fodorites, and it's worth contacting them to see if you can work with them.

This is some great advice.

I am still not understanding what we would we need an agent for. Please help me understand the reason of having one. Can you give some exact situations that it would be necessary/helpful. I am like you guys and have also planned and traveled without one so I am curious on what they would be able to do. I am very open to getting quotes and seriously looking into it, but please give me some more information.

Any other companies to inquire with besides TGS Jaipur.

@cwn- you said "From Agra to Jaipur took us from abut 8:30 when we finally left the hotel until just after 5 when we arrived at our hotel in Jaipur."
That included stopping at some sites, right? That wasn't the time it took from one city to the next?

I'm glad others clarified that I meant contacting an agent in India. Never having traveled in India before, I don't think you have an appreciation for just what can go wrong. Having someone to call when your flight lands at a different airport than scheduled or the train you were going to take isn't running or.... can make all the difference between a minor glitch and a major disaster.

Generally, in traveling to India, I like to have plenty of flex time built in so that the minor glitch don't mean I miss a whole stop. Unfortunately, you don't have that luxury as you are scheduled so closely, so you'll just has to roll with it. But if you have a local agent, they can quickly arrange for Plan B.

Has any of these glitched happened to any of you? Or are we just talking about having the agent for 'what ifs'?

I have been following this and IMO listen to Kathie. She is a well experienced traveler and gives good advice.

Having been to India 7 times myself I would say its wise to have a plan B.

We once were scheduled to fly from Del. to Jaipur and the plane was so late we could have gotten to our final destination (Ajmer) faster by taking the train.

Also traffic is India can be horrific. Long delays are common. Plan well I think.

Good luck, Larry.

Jacketwatch- Good idea to have a plan B. Did you have an agent during your travel? What exactly did they provide?

I am still confused on what they would provide that I wouldn't be able to figure out in a scenaro where the train ended at the wrong place. Wouldn't we just find another way to get to our destination? What would the agent do? Just figure it out for us and make it easier?

I am certainly open to the idea of an agent but you guys tell me exactly what they will do for us that we can't do on our own?

Thanks

As my wife is from India our trips there were mostly for family visits.

We did use a local agent a few times and they arranged cars, hotels, etc. Its nice to know you are a phone call away from a local trouble shooter. Your own arrangements may go well but what do you do when they are problems? A local agent can help with this as well as provide advice on where to go, when to go and how to get there and that can valuable. For example for our trip to Chandigarh last Oct. We got a local guide who provided a car, guide and a good deal on a hotel, the new Marriott which worked out well, better than we could have done on our own because of his inside knowledge. If you think you are fine on your own, ok but if you have never been to India, well it's not like anywhere you have been before.

Good luck, Larry.

For us in the planning stage, the thing was the big price difference between what the Hotel was quoting for drivers to take us from one city to another and then for the touring in the cities. We would have spend at least three times as much and had to arrange every one of our own transfers without the agent. As I said, the agent was able to get a lower price on the Oberoi package and I should have taken that also. But like you, I was very unwilling to put the whole trip in the hands if the agent.

At least email some of the Indian agents mentioned here, send them your itinerary with as much detail including hotels as you have and see what they offer. You may be surprised. Having been to India one time, when we go back I will again use an agent and drive as many places as can be done in a day. Traveling by plane or train is not my first pick in India and for the shorter day trips does not save much if any time. Yes, we made stops on the road to Jaipur...the sites are the reason you should use a car on that leg.

Our driver had the big picture and we just told him as we went about each day where we wanted to go...we changed this up easily as we went along. The local working cell phone was also wonderful as sometimes the arrangement we made for a site pickup changed after we were in the site. So we just called the driver and told where we were and he came and got us. We rent a car, if at all possible, where we visit..so we had the best of both worlds completely on our own schedule, but someone to do the driving!

We have traveled independently on the arrangements I made over the internet in Cambodia, Vietnam, Thailand, China, Japan, Zimbabwe, Tanzania, Kenya and South Africa and nothing prepared me for what I would have faced trying get taxis etc to move around from place to place in India.

You asked for an example of things going sideways...I am not good with this stuff so will cut and paste...this is from Elainee's Fodor's trip report last Feb......

"Why you need an Indian travel agent.

We got on an Air India plane in Varanasi to go to Agra. The plane was then going on to Khajuraho. But they took us all to Khajuraho and said get off the plane. No apparent reason.

There we were about 25 Agra passengers. We were much worse off than if they had cancelled the Agra flight. It was then 4pm. We were 500 kilometers from Agra. If they flew us to Delhi there is now good toll road to Agra. They said the next open seat would be two days. They provided a bus (no toilet on it) to Agra. Take it or leave it.

Our wonderful Mr. Singh called us even before we got off the plane.
He arranged a car and excellent driver. We took two young Japanese women with us so they did not have to take the bus.

More than 120 kilometers of the road had been removed for a new road. But they never built the new road.
So we drove on bare ground that had been highly eroded with gullys, deep holes, etc. and so much dust that the driver had to stop to clear the headlights.
We often had to crawl along. Remember, this is during the night. How many times have you read to never be driven at night in India? Good advice.

We got to our hotel at 3am after 10 hours.
The bus got to center Agra at 5:30 and then the tired passengers had to get to their hotels.

We are grateful to our agent."

If you will read some of other's trip reports, you will find how an agent can help. There was a report recently about the train being fogged in and being 12 hours late....India is (wonderfully) different....you can have a wonderful experience or a nightmare...just go prepared to go with the flow.

Happy planning.
Carolyn

We too used Mr. VP Singh and were very happy with his services. His address;

Www.legendsandpalaces.com.

I have done two long trips to India (ten weeks and six weeks) without using an agent. <b>BUT</b> I had plenty of time. You are scheduled practically to the minute, which is a huge mistake for India, and you have no room to recover when something goes wrong. If I was trying to travel in India on your schedule I would use an agent.

You know, I don't doubt it's doable on your own, but this is a country where the infrastructure is really limited, and should something happen, it would be much more difficult to navigate on your own.

My initial reasoning for having an agent was primarily to have someone to turn to, should there be a medical emergency that came up. I didn't want to be in some small region and not have someone that could arrange for GOOD care.

Having the agent arrange the driver and car meant that when our train arrived 8 hours late into Agra, my driver was waiting for us. We were in touch daily, so that we could make changes if needed, but also gave us a sense of connection.

India is wonderful but exhausting -- having someone pave the way made it more manageable.

I am understanding the idea of working with an agent now. Thanks for everyone's help.

I looked on a few sites (http://www.legendsandpalaces.com/) and TGS Jaipur. I haven't contacted them yet, but I plan on doing so this week.

Does this make sense for our trip- we have now decided to add addiotinal time to our trip:
** Revised**
Arrive in New Delhi in late pm. Spend 3 days
Agra: 2 days
Jaipur: 3 1/2 days
Amristar: 2 1/2 days
Varanasi: 3 days

Fly into Delhi arrive late pm
Travel without any driver or guide in Delhi
Spend 3 days in Delhi

Take 6am train to Agra (Spend 2 days in Agra)
Have driver meet us at train station and drive us in Agra

Early am train or drive to Jaipur (any more input on this decision would be nice)
Driver to be with us for our time in Jaiper

Amritsar- on our own?

Varanasi- Taxi from airport to hotel or arrange for a driver?
Have a guide during our Varanasi days

Head off to Nepal

We really want to travel at our own pace, spend as little or as much at sites, eat wherever we want etc... Having a driver will still give us that freedom, right? I've only hired a guide for a day once before in Rio for the Tijucia forest and it was still up to us to see and do what we wanted at our own pace. That is what we are looking for.

Please let me know of other agencies to contact. Any idea of cost for this?

We have already booked our flights from Jaipur-Amritsar, Amritsar-Varanasi and Varanasi-Kathmandu using miles so we don't need any help with that. Also, most of our hotels (all except Varanasi) are booked with award points, so we don't need any help on those either. We want to stay on the river in Varanasi.

One other highly recommended agency to consider: Castle and Kings

I think your itinerary is much improved by adding some time. Yes, you will have the freedom to choose your destinations and pace with a driver.

If you can handle Delhi without a driver you can handle Agra. Hire a rickshaw for the day in Agra. A driver is useless in Varanasi, you can't get a car, or even a rickshaw, through the streets near the river. A driver actually makes sense for Delhi as it's much bigger and the sites are more spread out.

Although I'm a fan of slow travel, that sounds a bit long for Amritsar. The Golden Temple is fantastic, but what else are you planning to do?

An answer to your question, thursdaysd, might be the daily ceremony closing the border between Pakistan & India at Wagah. I've seen it from both sides, and who would imagine closing a gate could draw such crowds or be so much fun. A taxi ride from Amritsar, I recommend it highly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9y2qtaopbE

We too saw the changing of the guard at the border and its well worth it. However I found this in Amritsar to be very moving.
http://www.jallianwalabagh.ca/pages.php?id=4

Ok, a little more time sounds better and sounds like you have lodging and most transportation from place to place set. At least if you have a big delay with the air or train travel you have some fix it time without missing the whole city.

Using points for the in country air will probably put you own your own for the last part of your trip, but an agent sure could smooth your entry into India on the Delhi-Agra-Jaipur section. An agent will work with you event if all you want is a car and driver. That is the only service we used, I stated that in my first contact. That was all we agreed to though he told me just to let him know if we wanted a guide for any thing.

I would hire a driver starting with the Delhi airport to hotel pick up...is that late at night like after 8PM? Have the driver for your stay in Delhi...he will be on what ever schedule you want and will take you anywhere when you want to go. He will drop you off and pick you up later, just call and tell him you are ready to move on, if he can't park (there are big parking lots full of cars and drivers waiting) near all the interesting places and you will know you always have a clean cool car that runs well and a safe driver. He can drop you at the train station that last morning.

Have a driver pick you up in Agra at the train station and take you around for your time in Agra. Literally we could call our driver many time. Keep that driver through your Jaipur departure.

To me, it is worth driving from Agra and Jaipur just to see some of the rural India and the sites along the way. The train will not be any faster and probably less comfortable, plus having a car and driver gives you so much more flexibility on the travel day.

You do not need a guide anywhere in those three cities really, but we found one helpful at the Taj for sunrise and he met us at the site.

Day trip to Sarnath from Varanasi is good idea.

This is the place where Lord Buddha said to have preached his first sermon to his disciples after attaining enlightenment. This is one of the four most significant Buddhist pilgrimage sites namely Bodhgaya, Kushinagar and Lumbini in Nepal. Main attractions here are various Stupas, historical monuments, Dear Park and Museum..

Allahabad can also be stretched out in a day trip if you are a kind of religious guy.. 130 km away from Varanasi..several temples and the place of cultural significance in Hinduism. It is one of the four places in India where Kumbh Fair--the largest hindu congregation is held in after every 12 years.

Seems like in Delhi we would be able to get around with the metro mainly. We don't plan on having a driver there. For us part of the travel experience is using the metro system and walking.

@cnw- we do arrive late in New Delhi 9:20pm arrival

As for Amritsar we are going to spend time at the Golden Temple and the closing the border between Pakistan & India at Wagah.I just noticed that I typed 2 1/2 days in Amristar and it should be 1 1/2 days.

I am in the process of getting quotes from the above mentioned agents for a driver for the Agra and Jaipur part of the trip.

I am trying to figure out a few things:

1. Is it worth it (price wise) to have a driver in Agra all day or just to meet us to drive us to Jaipur if we choose to drive there.

2. Take train to drive from Agra to Jaipur? What are the pros and cons of both? We love taking trains so is it really faster and more comfortable to drive?

We are getting closer to having a plan in place. Thanks again for making this all come together.

You don't need a car and driver in Agra, use a rickshaw.

The reason to drive from Agra to Jaipur would be to stop off at Fatehpur Sikri and the Bird Park on the way. If you did those as a day trip from Agra I would take the train. Have you read seat61.com on train travel in India?