Paige,<BR>We are going with our 3 kids (7,9, and 11) to China for 2 weeks in July, so I was interested in your trip. I went to China 15 years ago with girlfriends and my absolute favorite part was the Li River trip to Yangshuo. I can't wait to show it to my kids!!! It's unlike anything they'll ever see as far as I'm concerned. (and they've been to Thailand with us.) We are going to do Beijing, Xian (because they study the terra cotta soldiers in school) and definitely Yangshuo. That's my advice. Have a wonderful time!

Don't miss Guilin - Yangshou. E-mail me and I will send a "journal" of these areas - the best part of our trip to China which also included Beijing, Xi'an, Shanghai, Yangste river cruise, three gorges, Danang River,Suzchou, Zhou Zhang.<BR>Li river area is incredibly beautiful and like a trip back in time.<BR>Nothing here implies the other areas are not also fantastic to visit.

I took a tour to Beijing and Xi'an with TBI tours, a division of General Tours (www.generaltours.com) and was pleased with the cost and service. You can get around without a tour, many of the sites such as the Forbidden City and Summer Palace in Beijing and the Terra-Cotta warriors in Bejing have signs in English, but I felt the tour guide added extra background. <BR>When we were on our own for some dinners, my son, who had been teaching English in China for a few months was able to get explain what we wanted at most resturants, but some places have English translations on the menus. (Note for vegetarians: the Chinese seem not to understand this concept. Even when stressing no meat, no chicken, no seafood, just vegetables and tofu, there was meat in the dishes about half the time!)<BR><BR>We spent a week on our own in Suzhou which is a beautiful city about 1 hour train ride from Shanghai, Shanghai which almost seemed like home to me due to it's Western feel, and my favorite shopping place: Zhou Zhang, a beautiful little tourist town with the best prices anywhere.<BR><BR>Unfortunately, Zhou Zhang was at the end of my trip and I saw many of the same things I had purchased earlier for much less than I had paid. Just think of bargaining as a game and you won't feel "ripped off".<BR><BR>My cost was under $3000 (I didn't have to pay plane fare for my son) and we stayed in deluxe hotels.

I read from a Chinese travel forum that in the popular flea market of Xiushui Street in Beijing, the ongoing bargaining rule for the Chinese locals is this: cut the asking price down by half, then by another half, then round it down. For instance, a 180RMB asking price will be 180/90/45, and the fair price would be about 40 RMB. That is the rule for the locals. The asking price will probably even higher for foreighers, so do remember to bargain.

Sadly few people know less about travel in China than the Chinese themselves, who are as frequently fleeced as foreigners when away from their home towns, although not for quite such large sums. <BR><BR>When it comes to price bargaining there are no rules or rules of thumb, and indeed, should it be come to be known by vendors that the general belief is that a rounded down 25% of the first asking price should be paid, first asking prices would immediately rise in compensation. The belief (often posted on this site) that 'you should pay about half' contributes to making them what they are now.<BR><BR>The first asking price is merely a wild shot to see if you are stupid enough to pay it (there's always been someone through beforehand who has) and has very little to do with a price which would actually be acceptable.<BR><BR>The first offer you make can be as low as you like, and in fact should be a lot lower than you can reasonably make yourself believe the thing could be worth. Just as he can come down, so you can go up, but as he comes down by half, you go up in tiny steps. Always do this in a friendly, even jocular manner, and don't get annoyed.<BR><BR>The reality of shopping at any market popular (and in the case of Xiushui--the almost silkless 'Silk Market' or 'Silk Alley' of other postings) with tourists is that first asking prices can easily be ten to fifteen times higher than what's acceptable. Tour guides, who earn kick-backs from the stall holders, almost always advise payment of a far higher price than is realistic.<BR><BR>A fake, but reasonably well-made, heavy cotton shirt, for instance, will likely have a first asking price of Y180, but can be acquired fairly easily for Y45 (coincidentally similar to the rule of thumb mentioned above), although most visitors pay much more. However, at other markets these shirts can be found marked up at three for Y100, and, of course, can be bargained lower, and so they can at Xiushui. (If you must shop there, by the way, do it on a rainy day, and in general not at the stalls near the entrance. Asking prices for items there can be more than you'd pay in Beijing's most upmarket department stores. The revived Sanlitun market has more stylish clothes and shoes, as well as copy shirts, luggage, DVDs, etc. in abundance, in a more pleasant environment at lower prices. The Panjiayuan market, although also a tourist trap, has a far wider range of souvenirs of other kinds, and the market directly opposite the entrance to the Kunlun Hotel--whose name temporarily escapes me although I've been there twice this week--has shoes, luggage, shirts, 'North Face' jackets, T-shirts, underwear, etc. for much lower starting prices than Xiushui, not least because there are few foreign faces there.)<BR><BR>Back to prices: On the souvenir front a 'Mao' watch may have a first asking price of Y250, but be acquired for as little as Y18. A 'Song dynasty' bowl may have a first asking price of Y500, but be bought for Y30 or less. A tea pot of Y50, can be bought for Y6 or so. Expensive items such as silk (or 'silk') carpets simply should not be purchased except by those who have seriously done their research into prices and quality before leaving home, and then only for a great deal less than home prices.<BR><BR>Peter N-H<BR>http://members.axion.net/~pnh/China.html