First trip to China
 

Hello! We're starting to think about our first trip to China, maybe 2 weeks in September/October. It seems most people take tours. Is that the case? If so, why? We've never taken a tour before and I'm not sure we'd like it. Is it really so hard to get around if you don't know any of the language?<BR>To the China experts, how would you recommend we spend 2 weeks? We'd like to go to Beijing but that's about all we've figured out so far. We like cities and all they offer, but also nature and smaller towns. We prefer to stay in one place for at least a few days rather than move every other day. If possible, we'd like to keep the total cost for 2 under $5000.<BR>I'd appreciate any suggestions and hints. Thanks!!

Last year we started planning our China trip by looking over the various China tour companies on line. Previously, I have always planned our big trips, but this time we felt a tour was the best thing because of the language, great distances to be covered, and logistics We ended up taking the 15-day China Focus tour that included a weekend in Hong Kong. Great trip in every way! You will love China!<BR><BR>Barry

In the larger cities, you shouldn't have too much trouble getting around without knowing the language. All hospitality industry workers will speak English and signage is well marked. I would definitely add Shanghai to your list too.

I can recommend a company with the name Delight in it--can't remember the exact name.<BR><BR>I was with a group but we would get taxis and go off on our own. There were times we were the only non asians to be seen and always felt safe. They are set up for tourists and know how to communicate fairly well. Get a card from your hotel showing the name of it and the name of the place you want to go. <BR><BR>Try to take a train at some point of your trip. They are very clean and safe and the best part is that you get to see the countryside which is sooo much different from the cities.

I think the best advantage for a group organized tour is that it is more efficient to go see lots of things in a short period. If you have two weeks to spend and you don't plan to visit too many places, then go by yourself. Especially for a far away exotic country like China, doing it by yourself will end up make you really feel you've been there and done it. And it's more fun.<BR><BR>Get a tour guild book and make sure you know what you want to do in each city. You can also look at the group itinerary as references. Once you've done your home work, you can definitely do it. Language wouldn't be a major problem. If you do feel the need for joining a tour, you can always find tours once you are in China. There are lots of visitors from all around the world these days in China so you should have no trouble to find the particular services you need.<BR><BR>$5000 should be enough if you don't stay in the most expensive hotels, and don't make expensive major purchases.

Thanks everyone! Kang, thanks for posting your comments. That was what I was hoping someone would say!

I should admit at the outset that I'm DIY-biased. We're not big fans of tours, and have visited countries from Cambodia to Russia on our own. (We're Americans currently living in China).<BR><BR>To me, planning for the trip is half the fun. We use this Fodors board, the google search engine, and print guide books, and there hasn't been a destination yet that we haven't been able to plan relatively easily. <BR><BR>Getting around in any country whose language doesn't use the same alphabet is a bit difficult, but we've never had any problems when armed with a good map, directions written in a guide book or by the hotel concierge, and a smile!<BR>(OK, one time we were lost for 45 minutes in the rain in Genoa, but no system is perfect!)<BR><BR>Personally, here's what we do when we plan trips, using Fodors, other websites, and print guide books as references:<BR><BR>* Determine what we want to see (decide upong our itinerary)<BR><BR>* Research visa requirements, start visa application process<BR><BR>* Research & book our hotels (although I must admint that we usually do this at the last minute, so we do our actual booking by phone/fax instead of the Internet!)<BR><BR>* Determine specific sites for which we may want a guide, and find out whether or not we need to book in advance, what the going rate is, etc. (This info we usually get from Fodors and guide books)<BR><BR>* Investigate air vs. alternate travel (the night train from Shanghai to Beijing is a good deal - neat experience plus you save a hotel night) & book<BR><BR>Done! <BR><BR>China is one of those "specialty" destinations that is a little bit intimidating to Westerners, and for that reason, travel companies can charge high premiums for tours. This is not always the case, of course, but if you do book a tour, at least also do the research into what the individual pieces would cost you on your own.<BR><BR>When my parents came to visit last summer, we were going to go to Guilin/Yangshuo for a couple of days. My mom and I both checked into numerous tour packages. Booking on our own (only hotel in advance, other tours in-country, as people told us you should do) was about US $250 including hotel for 2 days. The packages offered by the tour companies STARTED at US $750 for the SAME items (hotel and 2 tours).<BR><BR>This board is a great resource for self-planning a trip to China. I recommend you do a couple of searches - people have asked many times what the highlights are & there is a lot of other practical advice.<BR><BR>Good luck!

One more thing. October 1st is the national day of China. The whole country takes 7 days off. Try to avoid the first 7 days of that month. Even though you could enjoy the holiday spirit as well, you don't want to fight the crowd everywhere you go. <BR><BR>Otherwise, Sep. and Oct. are usually the best months to visit China.

Thanks again, Kang. We were planning on going at the first of Oct so that's good to know.<BR><BR>Can anyone recommend a 2 week itinerary? I think we'll fly in and out of Beijing and we'd like to see a few other places. Xian looks interesting, as does Chengde. Any opinions or ideas would be greatly appreciated.

That is the hard part - to recommend itinerary.<BR><BR>China is a huge country with great diversity and each place offers some very different features. It is not like to select the best from similar places. Since you seem to have wide interests in many things, other than Beijing, I am really not sure what to recommend. <BR><BR>I think you will end up visiting the most popular tourist arractions for westerners as everyone else because these places are indeed good introductions to Chinese culture/scenery for first timers. If you weren't the first timer, I would recommend areas like the beautiful Southwestern region, some places along the silk road, and the best eye openner, very unique in the whole world - Tibet. <BR><BR>So for your first time visit, you have the following to consider: Beijing, Shanghai, some neiboring attractions nearby Shanghai, Three Gorges, Xi'an, and Guilin. You cannot possibly see them all so the best way is still to get a good tour guild book and find the attractions you are most interested.<BR><BR>One suggestion.<BR><BR>Assuming you aren't going with a tour group, and you decide to go to Guilin/Li River. You may want to do the following:<BR><BR>Fly to Guilin but don't stay there. Instead, take a local bus from Guilin to Yangshuo(1 1/2 hours)where the best part of the scenery around Li River is located. There is a small street in Yangshuo called "West Street" where most regular residents are westerners. Many are Americans and some of them stay there for days even weeks to enjoy the area. Once you are there, collect information in the outdoor Cafes along the West street from people who are not new comers and plan for at least 2-3 days in Yangshuo.<BR><BR>One thing you must do in Yangshuo is to rent a bike(1 to 2 US$ per day) and hire a local guide to ride(very inexpensive) with you to explore the Li River countryside. It is extremely beautiful. <BR><BR>I haven't been there in recent years but I believe the above info is quit reliable. Maybe Andrea has more tips since she was there lately.<BR><BR>I am not suggesting you add Guilin/Yangshuo to your list, just tips if you do elect to go.<BR><BR>I cannot believe this Asia bashing thread is still floating around. I don't know if this is your first visit to Asia. You will certainly see unpleasant things in that part of the world but also try to look at the bright side of the picture, why people live the way they live and happily live the way they live. And of course enjoy the beautiful scenery and the cultural diferences.<BR><BR>You will love China.

Thanks, Kang. I got a good book last night which lists 50 good destinations, which will really help. We might not make it to the Li River this trip but it's definitely on the list. Our first trip to Asia was earlier this year, with 2 weeks in Thailand. We loved it! People can find fault with any place if they want to. Thanks again for your help.

How about 5 days in Beijing, 3 days in Xi'an and 3 days in either Harbin or Qingdao? I read about the last 2 in the Frommers book and they sound interesting, easy to fly to from Beijing, off the main tourist path and slightly different from the 1st two cities. Any opinions on Harbin and Qingdao? <BR><BR>Also, I'm having a hard time finding information (schedules, fares) on internal flights. I think we'd like to fly from Beijing to Xi'an then possibly onto Harbin or Qingdao and back to Beijing. Travelocity takes an error when I enter these cities! Can anyone offer advice on this? Thanks so much!

Is this the Xi'an where the army of terracotta soldiers is?<BR><BR>Xi An Xianyang, China (XIY) <BR><BR>I did manage to find this and the other cities in Travelocity. The low fare finder doesn't work; you have to put in dates and times.

Any opinions of Harbin or Qingdao? Thanks!

Personally, I don't like Harbin. There is really not much to see there. The city is located in Northeastern region and it could be quite cold in October or even in middle to late September. There are no attractions in both history or scenery. I doubt anyone posting on this board have ever visited there.<BR><BR>Qingdao is fine, a beautiful coastal city with some European flavors but there are nothing special there either. For a first timer in China, I wouldn't say it is a great choice but it is OK.<BR>

Thanks, Kang. Can you recommend another city, if we decide to go to Beijing and Xi'an and will fly into and out of Beijing? I'd like to add a place that's not on the typical tourist trail that would be interesting and not too difficult. It doesn't have to have lots of museums and palaces, just a flavor of China and a place that would be interesting to walk around for a few days. Thanks.

For a place with a flavor of China and also interesting to walk around for a few days, I'd recommend Kunming, Dali, Lijiang, all located in Yunnan province. The weather is always great, the scenery is beautiful, the pace of life is slower. If you have 4 days, spend 2 days in Kunming, 2 days in Lijiang; if you have 5 days, spend 2 days in Kunming, 3 days in Lijiang; if you have 6 days, spend 2 days in Kunming, 2 days in Dali, and 2 days in Lijiang. You got the idea. <BR><BR>Lijiang is a UNESCO world heritage site. Similar to Yangshuo, it attracts many westerners to spend days even weeks there to enjoy the serenity and beauty of the area.

Thanks! I'll look into it.

Last spring we did Beijing/Xian/Shanghai and absolutely loved Shanghai. I would recommend it to anyone. Also, I would recomemnd learning a few key phrases in Mandarin, just for the experience of inter-acting with locals.

I have been to Harbin, but only in the winter when the "ice festival" (I don't know what it's called officially) takes place. It's freezing cold but a lot of fun. I still have very fond memories of going horseback riding across a frozen lake. But kang is right, I can't see that there's much to do in Harbin in Sep/Oct.<BR><BR>You may also want to consider flying into one city and out of another. That way you don't have to fly back to Beijing for your return flight. Don't know where you would be flying from or if you've already decided on an airline, but for example, if you fly China Eastern (AA codeshare partner) from LAX, you can buy a roundtrip Shanghai ticket with a stop over in Beijing. They have 4 transpacific flights a week that stopover in Beijing first before proceeding to Shanghai. The return flights are non-stop from Shanghai.<BR><BR>Hope this helps.

Paige,<BR>We are going with our 3 kids (7,9, and 11) to China for 2 weeks in July, so I was interested in your trip. I went to China 15 years ago with girlfriends and my absolute favorite part was the Li River trip to Yangshuo. I can't wait to show it to my kids!!! It's unlike anything they'll ever see as far as I'm concerned. (and they've been to Thailand with us.) We are going to do Beijing, Xian (because they study the terra cotta soldiers in school) and definitely Yangshuo. That's my advice. Have a wonderful time!

Don't miss Guilin - Yangshou. E-mail me and I will send a "journal" of these areas - the best part of our trip to China which also included Beijing, Xi'an, Shanghai, Yangste river cruise, three gorges, Danang River,Suzchou, Zhou Zhang.<BR>Li river area is incredibly beautiful and like a trip back in time.<BR>Nothing here implies the other areas are not also fantastic to visit.

I took a tour to Beijing and Xi'an with TBI tours, a division of General Tours (www.generaltours.com) and was pleased with the cost and service. You can get around without a tour, many of the sites such as the Forbidden City and Summer Palace in Beijing and the Terra-Cotta warriors in Bejing have signs in English, but I felt the tour guide added extra background. <BR>When we were on our own for some dinners, my son, who had been teaching English in China for a few months was able to get explain what we wanted at most resturants, but some places have English translations on the menus. (Note for vegetarians: the Chinese seem not to understand this concept. Even when stressing no meat, no chicken, no seafood, just vegetables and tofu, there was meat in the dishes about half the time!)<BR><BR>We spent a week on our own in Suzhou which is a beautiful city about 1 hour train ride from Shanghai, Shanghai which almost seemed like home to me due to it's Western feel, and my favorite shopping place: Zhou Zhang, a beautiful little tourist town with the best prices anywhere.<BR><BR>Unfortunately, Zhou Zhang was at the end of my trip and I saw many of the same things I had purchased earlier for much less than I had paid. Just think of bargaining as a game and you won't feel "ripped off".<BR><BR>My cost was under $3000 (I didn't have to pay plane fare for my son) and we stayed in deluxe hotels.

I read from a Chinese travel forum that in the popular flea market of Xiushui Street in Beijing, the ongoing bargaining rule for the Chinese locals is this: cut the asking price down by half, then by another half, then round it down. For instance, a 180RMB asking price will be 180/90/45, and the fair price would be about 40 RMB. That is the rule for the locals. The asking price will probably even higher for foreighers, so do remember to bargain.

Sadly few people know less about travel in China than the Chinese themselves, who are as frequently fleeced as foreigners when away from their home towns, although not for quite such large sums. <BR><BR>When it comes to price bargaining there are no rules or rules of thumb, and indeed, should it be come to be known by vendors that the general belief is that a rounded down 25% of the first asking price should be paid, first asking prices would immediately rise in compensation. The belief (often posted on this site) that 'you should pay about half' contributes to making them what they are now.<BR><BR>The first asking price is merely a wild shot to see if you are stupid enough to pay it (there's always been someone through beforehand who has) and has very little to do with a price which would actually be acceptable.<BR><BR>The first offer you make can be as low as you like, and in fact should be a lot lower than you can reasonably make yourself believe the thing could be worth. Just as he can come down, so you can go up, but as he comes down by half, you go up in tiny steps. Always do this in a friendly, even jocular manner, and don't get annoyed.<BR><BR>The reality of shopping at any market popular (and in the case of Xiushui--the almost silkless 'Silk Market' or 'Silk Alley' of other postings) with tourists is that first asking prices can easily be ten to fifteen times higher than what's acceptable. Tour guides, who earn kick-backs from the stall holders, almost always advise payment of a far higher price than is realistic.<BR><BR>A fake, but reasonably well-made, heavy cotton shirt, for instance, will likely have a first asking price of Y180, but can be acquired fairly easily for Y45 (coincidentally similar to the rule of thumb mentioned above), although most visitors pay much more. However, at other markets these shirts can be found marked up at three for Y100, and, of course, can be bargained lower, and so they can at Xiushui. (If you must shop there, by the way, do it on a rainy day, and in general not at the stalls near the entrance. Asking prices for items there can be more than you'd pay in Beijing's most upmarket department stores. The revived Sanlitun market has more stylish clothes and shoes, as well as copy shirts, luggage, DVDs, etc. in abundance, in a more pleasant environment at lower prices. The Panjiayuan market, although also a tourist trap, has a far wider range of souvenirs of other kinds, and the market directly opposite the entrance to the Kunlun Hotel--whose name temporarily escapes me although I've been there twice this week--has shoes, luggage, shirts, 'North Face' jackets, T-shirts, underwear, etc. for much lower starting prices than Xiushui, not least because there are few foreign faces there.)<BR><BR>Back to prices: On the souvenir front a 'Mao' watch may have a first asking price of Y250, but be acquired for as little as Y18. A 'Song dynasty' bowl may have a first asking price of Y500, but be bought for Y30 or less. A tea pot of Y50, can be bought for Y6 or so. Expensive items such as silk (or 'silk') carpets simply should not be purchased except by those who have seriously done their research into prices and quality before leaving home, and then only for a great deal less than home prices.<BR><BR>Peter N-H<BR>http://members.axion.net/~pnh/China.html