Costs - Yikes!
 

We're now thinking of a visit to Japan for autumn this year. (We were there late last spring.) The price of hotels - at least a couple of the ones we stayed at last May - has risen well beyond what we imagined. One Tokyo hotel in Asakusa is $100+ a more a night, and the place we stayed at in Kyoto is over $200 more a night. Same rooms and amenities.

Does this sound familiar to you? Also, we've always booked directly with the hotels, but I noticed a (well-known) travel booking site cuts hotel costs by about 20%. Do any of you use them? Your experiences?

I have used many of the booking sites. If you don't run into a problem, which is usually the case, it doesn't matter how you book. But if you do have a problem, it is so much easier to resolve when you book directly with the hotel. However, be careful to make sure you are not comparing apples to oranges and look at room sizes and bed sizes. There is also the difference between a rate quote and then with taxes and fees added.

I would not hesitate to book a deal if the cost saving is significant.

If you are measuring in US dollars, do realize that the yen exchange rate has fallen since late last spring by nearly 10%. Also, late spring (especially June) is one of the low seasons, and one of the high seasons is autumn (there are many holiday weekends in the autumn, and its much more comfortable to travel then instead of in summer)..

And then there is this thing called inflation, which has been slow take grip in Japan, but is now increasing. Many businesses across the board have been reluctant to raise their prices in any considerable way for the past few years (actually, until a couple years ago, for the previous 30 years there has been little to no inflation) since the populace can't afford to pay more due to stagnant wages, so any increase in prices means a decrease in sales. I think many were hoping that the yen exchange rate would revert to "normal" levels of about 100-110 yen per US$, which would help with the costs of everything since not only are many things imported, but all gasoline, heating fuel, cooking fuel, and coal is also imported, and with most nuclear power plants still offline from Fukushima (yep, for the past 13 years...) then having a prolonged weak yen for the past few years (currently about 144 per $), makes importing fuel continuously more expensive, and it has a knock-on effect on practically everything, and it has now forced inflation even though many companies would prefer not to change their prices.

Oh, and there is also the fact that businesses catering to foreign tourists are taking advantage of how that Japan has become a hot destination recently (enjoy the koyo crowds in Kyoto!), and since Japanese can now longer afford to travel in their own country, and foreigners apparently can, then the prices should reflect whatever the market can allow. Its basic demand economics.

Interesting! That is exactly the opposite of my experience. I've rarely had troubles, but when I have, they have all been quickly resolved IF booked through booking.com. If booked directly with a hotel, resolutions have been much more difficult and time consuming.

Thanks for weighing on this. Really appreciate the details about resolving issues and possible added fees.

I found exactly the same issue as you and posted a few weeks ago about news that Japanese hotels were thinking of bringing in dual pricing for foreigners because of the dramatic fall of the yen against all major currencies in recent years. Hotel rates in most countries have risen dramatically in many countries - here in London , rates are just getting ridiculous. this is due to increased demand due to more people travelling post pandemic and to hotels seeking to rebuild their balance sheets after the pandemic.

I full expected that in Japan, the fall in the yen would at least offset those increases but that is not the case, I have noticed that rates have increased in £ terms by similar amounts to those you mention. I am wondering whether this is due to some or all companies introducing some for of dual pricing.

I have always used a mixture of booking direct and online agencies like booking.com and Expedia and can usually find decent rates with those companies similar to or better than booking direct. I also only ever book on a flexible and refundable rate and it is very easy to change or cancel reservations with those organisation .

Japan does not do dual pricing for foreigners for accommodations, particularly ones which offer themselves via online booking agents like Booking..com or Agoda, etc. Any price you pay for a room is the same as what Japanese pay.

The overblown headline stories you maybe read about regarding dual pricing in Japan has been with hardly a handful of restaurants (mostly snazzy buffets where "eating all one can eat" can often be a bit unbalanced with foreign stomachs). That's it. Period.

There are a few popular historic sights that have become over-visited (compared to the past) which are considering a dual pricing system in the future (which are maybe also mentioned in the news), but none have yet to do so.

I have used agoda for booking in Tokyo and it was fine--but you do need to be careful to ensure these are free cancellations, and you're getting a room that will work for you. (I think booking.com and agoda.com are the same same company.) I often use booking.com and have never had an issue with either. But my preference is to book direct with hotel.

In Tokyo, the issue can be rooms so small, you can't find a place to open your suitcase except for the bed. As I need twin beds, another issue is having them jammed together. Or the smoking room! Will not book a smoking room.

This year, I'm holding the Asakusa Tobu hotel, but keeping an eye on the Ibis Styles Tokyo Ginza (which isn't showing availability, but I keep hoping!). I'd like to stay near the Shimbashi and Ginza station this year, but not a budget area for twin beds. You may be luckier with a double bed. The Gate hotel Asakusa offered a great rate a few days ago for a smoking room, and I just couldn't. But two of my coworkers stayed there last year.

I've stayed at the Shinagawa Prince multiple times, and it's really convenient for a night or two before the shinkansen to elsewhere or a domestic flight from Haneda. (Reviews are mixed, but from my multiple stays there, I've always loved it. I'm staying one night again there in a month, so fingers crossed it's not gone downhill as some say. But I've always booked main tower in an upper floor, and don't buy b'fast as there's better options in the station.) Good luck! Tokyo has gotten pricey! Kyoto was actually much cheaper for me last year, and we stayed at the Hotel New Hankyu which was really convenient and totally fine and clean, though nothing exciting.

Thank you, Wilk67, for taking the time to respond so thoroughly. While we have considered the factors you mentioned, it still doesn't seem reasonable that a comfortable but modest hotel room that cost $135 a night last May should cost $314 in November.
We'll keep looking. As smitten as we are with Japan, we may consider a Plan B.

we were also there last half of may and the airbnb we loved in kyoto is $100 more a night in mid march. it was such a bargain in May so totally understand that can't last...

>> noticed a (well-known) travel booking site cuts hotel costs by about 20%. Do any of you use them? Your experiences?

Why in the world would you not tell us the name of the site where you/we might get a 20% discount?

Yes, I have used multiple OTA sites for lodging bookings. I also book directly using their Japanese website if they don't have an English option. I translate the Japanese page to English to complete the booking.

Last year, I wanted to stay at a particular ryokan in Unzen Onsen. I went to their website and it was only in Japanese but I saw that it had multiple meal options. An OTA would sell the room but only with the standard meal option. Went back to the ryokan website and booked the meal option I wanted.

Advance payment processing for a direct booking usually if not always goes through a third party.

Over 20 years ago I used the Japanese website for Rihga Royal hotels to get a huge discount in Hiroshima that was not offered on the English page. Got help from KimJapan to read the booking confirmation email what was in Japanese. Held my breath at check-in but there was no issue.

You could try using the Japanese website for a ryokan or Japanese hotel. Probably won't work for an international chain. I just tried hilton.co.jp but that sent me to the .com/en page.

It is supply and demand. That rate likely means that the place is almost sold out and you are too late. Maybe they just have the Emporer's Suite available for your date(s) and the $314 rate is reasonable.

You could check the rates for one-night stays that are +-3 days from the date you wanted.

There is a holiday the first week of November.

At the MyStays in Aomori last year I booked three one-night stays on Sep 22.

Check-in date: 2023/11/04
・Number of Guests: 1 total (1 adults/0 children)
・Number of Rooms: 1
・Total price（Tax included): ¥ 16,350

That was Saturday. Same price for Sunday. But on Monday Nov 6:

Check-in date: 2023/11/06
・Check-out date: 2023/11/07
Number of Guests: 1 total (1 adults/0 children)
Price（Tax included): JPY 9,950

>> holiday the first week of November
Culture Day

mrwnrfl - Wow on those 2023 prices!

In the instance I describe above ( triple the price in Nov), it's for the exact same room unfortunately. Not the "Emperor's suite" by any stretch.

I'm still feeling my way on this forum - didn't know if naming the booking company was appropriate.Now that I see now that others do it - Expedia.

Thanks for your help.

IME (which is admittedly limited), Expedia sometimes offers specials -- I wonder if that was involved with your original booking? In any case, I recommend that you check booking.com. And you might check tripadvisor, which shows the rates for a particular hotel through various booking services, although the rates aren't always comparable because they include different things.

Hi kja - The original booking was done directly with the hotels.

Ok, no problem using expedia.Maybe I will try it.

I use agoda and japanican.

OK, so the hotel matched expedia's rate (whether special or not). To be honest, what you paid and why really doesn't interest me.

If you want suggestions about options for a potential new trip, my advice still stands: check booking.com and, for possible special offers, tripadvisor.

mrwunrfl I haven't found expedia to be a useful source for bookings for any of the countries I've visted -- it has never had the lowest prices or best offers in light of my interests. In contrast, I've found booking.com to be an excellent resource, though I didn't use it for my trip to Japan -- it didn't cover that country when I went, or if it did, it's offerings were extremely limited.

There are actually 2 holiday weekends in November: Nov 4 and Nov 23 (the 23rd is a Saturday, so some people in this case are allowed to sometimes roll that back into a day off on Friday, or over to Monday, depending on their company)

And assuming you are talking about somewhere in Kyoto or Tokyo perhaps the question could also be phrased as "Why did a $314 hotel room in one of the two most popular places in Japan only cost $135 in late May?"

And as noted by others, November is a particularly popular time for visiting in Japan for seeing the autumn leaves and having pleasant weather, and I can tell you from living here and knowing people in the tourism industry around my countryside area, this November is already really full here with people booking months ahead (and its not exactly a popular place to visit where I'm at), so I can only image the higher fees also have to do with high-season supply and demand (maybe try putting in mid/late February dates not on a holiday or a weekend to see the difference).

And c'mon, how much would any high-season room cost in London, NYC, or any other major world city? Its not like Tokyo or Kyoto are the same as Caracas or Kabul (not to mention the service in Japan probably way outperforms most spots in the US or Europe). And just to get an idea about high-season demand fluctuation, last Golden Week the capsule hotel rate in Tokyo's Shinjuku hit 12,350yen ($85) per person for literally a coffin-sized room!

Here's an article talking about it:
https://newsonjapan.com/article/141868.php
And from the article, basic business hotels are also going up:

I suppose we could make suggestions on where to stay for the OP if we knew the exact dates and budget.......

I find that Agoda often has good prices, sometimes even better than the hotel! It has frequent sales so it’s possible to get a good deal on a particular hotel if you keep watching.

I’ve booked my upcoming trip mostly with Agoda, some booking.com and a couple of direct reservations with the hotel.

I agree that Agoda sometimes has good prices but time of year will affect prices more than anything.

Appreciate this, Progol!

I’m sure you know, but for those who don’t, when booking 3rd party reservation sites, pay careful attention to 1) cancellation dates and 2) what’s included and what’s not. It’s easy to see a cheap rate and then discover you’ve booked the nonrefundable rate.

Despite the temptation of cheap rates, I always book places with cancellation and, as far out as possible.

I used Marriott points last year at the Westin Tokyo which was less expensive for me for 2 rooms for 5 days.

Yes, thankfully the ones I've explored have been explicit about cancellations and refunds. What threw me a bit, though, was seeing the option to "insure" the booking for an additional fee. Is that necessary? Do situations occur where guests with third-party reservations are turned away by hotels?

I haven't seen "opportunities" to insure a hotel booking, nor have I personally been turned away from a hotel for which I have a booking. Doesn't mean it can't happen, for example, if a hotel must close because of a fire or earthquake -- and in a case like that, it wouldn't matter how you booked (third party or direct).

Only you can decide whether the cost of the hotel is so high that you would want insurance to cover it, and if you decide to insure, you might want to make sure it's included in your overall trip insurance rather than taking out a separate coverage option.

Note that I don't believe that all booking sites are legit. I wonder -- would you please share the name of the booking site that is offering insurance to you?

With the need for insurance, well, just look right now at the typhoon that has been happening across all of southern Japan for the past several days, with all the corresponding cancellations for flights, trains, buses, and ferries. Nobody was able to travel anywhere.

Whether a hotel would give any refund due to weather events affecting travel is usually only the case if the ability to access the hotel is directly affected (such as if the hotel is located in the mountains and the only road going to the hotel has been closed or damaged). If trying to cancel on the day you were to arrive because the rail line you are planning to take to get there has been closed due to a typhoon, strong winds, heavy rain, or earthquake, yet the hotel itself is still otherwise open and accessible by car or taxi,, then you will probably not get a refund.

I booked my November Tokyo accommodations back in April, but I just did another search on booking.com and the Chase travel portal (which I use when advantageous to earn 10x points), and there were plenty of budget accommodations in Asakusa for $100-150 per night. That’s about what I paid in April (albeit for a hotel in a different part of town), so no, I’m not seeing that hotel prices have substantially risen recently.

The yen is slightly stronger against the dollar now than it was a few months ago, so that would account for a slight rise in prices (if you are looking at prices in $) but I’m not seeing exponential changes.

You have it a bit backwards. The hotel will have a room for you. The insurance is in the event of you being a no-show.

I don't book prepaid nonrefundable rates. IDK if the insurance would cover that kind of reservation.

The booking site or hotel site gives tells you what you might lose if you have to cancel or are a no-show. Might be that you pay for the first night of the reservation.

I book rooms where I can cancel the reservation for no charge if done 3 days or 1 day before planned arrival date. So, maybe I get injured taking my luggage to the car on departure day. It will be too late to cancel the first reservation n my itinerary without penalty but I can cancel any remaining reservations without a penalty, probably,

I don't pay for that kind of insurance. Maybe I have some coverage thourgh my credit card, idk. But all I stand to lose is the cost of the first night's stay, so I self insure. Haven't done that yet, so I saved money by not buying the insurance for dozens of trips.

YMMV

Here's the "protect your stay" page from expedia:


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...10e444a56c.jpg

If you are interested in trip insurance -- and what you've posted sounds like that -- research your options at either insuremytrip.com or squaremouth.com. Each will should you various options and allow you to specify the coverage options you want.

I buy insurance as my health coverage abroad is limited and also for possible medical evacuation costs

That is travel insurance. You should follow the "Why" link and view the policy. You do not have to buy it, but if you are interested then you need to know what it covers and only you can decide if it is worth it.

I took a look and the policy would be through Travel Guard. Tried Hotel Gracery Sept 9 for one night and for 3 nights. The premium was higher for the longer stay. That tells me that I lose coverage after I check out of the hotel. I believe that it only covers a loss related to the hotel reservation and nothing else like the airfare booked separately. I could be wrong about this.

The hotel cancellation policy said I would be charged the first night's stay if I was a no-show or if I didn't cancel by midnight Japan Time on the 8th (which would be like 5PM my local time). If your $1100+ booking is pay now and nonrefundable then that would make the insurance more valuable. If you only stand to lose the first night's charge then not as valuable, though it does cover costs beyond the hotel during your stay.

Thing is, travel insurance can be bought for the entire trip. You specify you travel dates, choose your coverage, and you give a cost of your trip to include airfare, hotel, etc. So you have that $1100 booking but your entire trip might be $5000. I think that is how it works. Take a look at the links that kja gave.

Yes, and thank you, mrwunrfl. My primary concern, because we've never used a 3rd party booking service, was somehow being arbitrarily denied a room we'd booked. That doesn't sound like it would be the case. You and Wilk67 have provided us with a better understanding of trip insurance. We appreciate this..

YMMV indeed ;)

I was wondering why that insurance is so inexpensive - it's just for one night...lol....

I always take out travel insurance for my whole trip which the older you are the more expensive it gets...but in my case, I once did need to use it when I slipped and broke my foot a number of years ago and had to go home since I couldn't walk...I call it my Japan weekend as the accident happened the second or third day...lol...

Sometimes I think I really don't need it as I think my secondary medical coverage might cover Japanese medical expenses but then again I usually stay in an airbnb and you pay up front so if something happens in the beginning of my stay I would lose a lot....

I think the reasons for getting trip insurance may differ as much as the people who purchase it! I get it for several reasons, including:

• In case I need to cancel or interrupt my trip because of a relative's health. (I have a number of elderly relatives.)
• For medical evacuation in the event of a major injury or illness (as Mara mentioned);
• For some trips, in case I need to cancel or interrupt my trip because of a natural disaster.

I generally opt to cover only the cost of my flights, because I'm willing to "eat" the cost of any hotel reservations I can't cancel in a timely way. (I think mrwunrfl said something similar.) But then (a) I only book lodgings that can be fully cancelled until close to the time of my planned stay and (b) I don't book particularly costly lodgings. For an upcoming trip (not to Japan), I opted to cover the costs for the flight and the cost of a car and driver for several days because that cost is not inconsequential by my standards and because the date for cancelling for a full refund is far enough in advance that I wanted additional assurance that I would be reimbursed if I did have to forego that experience.

Again, I encourage you to consult insuremytrip.com and/or squaremouth.com. The policy or policies that seem to best suit my particular needs for any trip have been from different companies (issuers) from trip to trip -- no one company has best met my needs.

that nsurance quote was $36.38 for an $1164.16 stay

Saw that expedia had a pay now option but it is refundable up to day before arrival. Have seen that elsewhere. It locks in the currrent exchange rate.

So? Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I don't think we know what the OP wants or needs by way of coverage. It might be a good price for what's covered, it might not. It might be great or lousy, or cover the things that matter to the OP or not.... Only comparing policies for one's particular needs for a particular trip can indicate whether a policy is "good" for one's needs or not.

BTW, RandZ, I'm sorry if my post # 18 seemed harsh or insensitive -- I meant that I was more interested in focusing on the future than the past.

>> ,So?
So I laid out the quote for Mara who may have been thinking it was for one night. Given the price I think it is for multiple nights. But if the OP is a no-show then they may be on the hook only for the first night, unless it is pre-paid non-refundable.

Also, I simply pointed out something interesting that I found at expedia. That was they offered a refundable pay-in-advance optkion.