China or India
 

It seems I may be whined enough to convince my husband to begin planning next year's trip and to go back to SE Asia again after back to back trips to Thailand/Cambodia and Vietnam. He's asked me if I would prefer China or India, both of which are on my must see list, so...I am hoping that Fodorites who have been to both can give me some assistance here. We will have approximately 3 1/2 weeks to travel.

Which trip would you do first and why?
What is the cost difference between the trips?

I realize they are each huge countries and that we cannot see all in one trip, but considering it may be the one and only trip to each...would you do a highlight tour or concentrate on one area - and if so, suggestions?

Thanks for any advise you can give. I will be doing tons of reading and preparation in the coming months, but want to get feelers out on which trip to concentrate on.

This seems like an impossible question to answer for someone else.

I'd suggest you buy a guidebook for each country and do some reading. Also read some good trip reports here for some ideas. What catches your interest?

What is your travel style? Do you like to cover a lot of area, stopping briefly at places that interest you or do you prefer to choose places of special interest and spend more time at each place?

Kathie - I've started my reading and have been reviewing trip reports here for the last year. I've happily contributed information when I can and have been most appreciative of all the help I've had from Fodorites. I certainly don't expect to be spoon fed, but would appreciate those opinions of travelers who have gone before me.

I've previously provided a rather lengthy description of my traveling style after Dogster nearly chewed off my ear, but here I go again with a brief summary.

My husband and I, age 67 & 54 have enjoyed extensive travel independently using an occasional guide as needed. We stay in moderately priced accommodations, like to see a lot, are not interested in vegging by a pool or staying at resorts as we live in a resort golf community and can stay at home if we want to do that. We enjoy people watching, ancient ruins, architecture, food, etc. We do not have the patience to spend hour upon hour in museums, but if one is especially good, we enjoy it. We are not that interested in shopping, although we'll pick up some souvenirs along the way. We love photography and we love seeing other cultures and exploring new things. We travel by plane, train, car, boat and occasionally by bus. We are very flexible and can easily go with the flow. In the past, we rarely made hotel reservations ahead of time, but on our recent trips to Thailand and Vietnam, we did so much research that we decided in advance where we wanted to be so as to fit the most in that we could.

So...any advice? Any thoughts? I know no one can tell me what I will like, but you can sure tell me what you enjoyed most and why.

Thanks in advance. - June

dgunbug, I've read your VN report, so have some idea of how you travel. I'm wondering, though what catches your fancy about either China or India. I tend to make decisions about where to go on that basis.

You might find my trip planning process to be useful. Here's my blog about planning this year's trip:
http://www.travelindependently.com/c...ia-trip/page/2

It starts at the bottom of that page and goes up, then click on "follow me" on the top post and you'll get to the next page of posts (again bottom to top).

Kathie - China has been a place I've been interested in seeing ever since I was a student in college, considering a major in in Asia studies. China was closed to tourist at the time, but it was my dream to go there and it still is. I am less familiar with India, but after reading some of the adventures of other travelers and having heard stories from friends and family members, it is another place that I want to visit. My husband has been adamant about never going to India, however, after lots of prompting, today he asked me which I would rather go to next year. And so, the dilemna - which first.

Planning the trip is not of concern. I will do my due diligence in researching and asking lots of questions, but first I must decide which location to go to this coming year.

What I thought might be useful from my blog was the process I went through this year in deciding where to go. It also describes how Cheryl and I make the final decision on where to go after some research.

I'd say that if China is a place you've long wanted to go - make it now.

I think this sums it up.... "China has been a place I've been interested in seeing ever since I was a student in college, considering a major in in Asia studies. China was closed to tourist at the time, but it was my dream to go there and it still is".......Go to China if that has always been your dream.

I have been to both and my choice would be CHINA all the time. I will be in Mumbai again, in transit for one day, in a week or so and if I could have gone somewhere other than India I would have.
China blew me away actually with the friendliness of the people to the efficiency of everything that they do. The hotels are excellant and a good price and of course the food and everything else is fantastic.
I am going to Beijing this November for 2 weeks, last year I flew into Guilin in the south and toured around there then took a train ( 25 hours or so if I remember correctly) from Guilin to Shanghai which is a fantastic city. I stayed in the Howard Johnson Business Hotel in the ex pat area and it was beautiful. Lots of great shopping and lots and lots of DVD shops that are not pirate copies but are a fraction of the cost of normal DVDs elsewhere in the World ( about double the cost of pirate copies) and just about everything that has ever been filmed is available.
Shanghai also has a special centre which has hundreds of material shops and hundreds of dressmakers and designers etc where you can get anything made from any material available i.e. Alpaca, cashmere, silks and everything else. Arm yourself with either a picture of what you would like or a pattern for yourself or your family members. Another wonderful bargain are the silk doonas ( duvets) I bought several together with silk filled pillows - beautiful items and a fraction of the price from home.
We also took the train back to Guilin from Shanghai so I did spend a lot of time seeing the countryside which was lovely and not what I expected at all. I have also been to Shenzhen and Hong Kong and surrounds. Expect to see wide boulevards with lovely trees and flowers growing and everything looking nice. Expect to see more department stores than you thought could exist. Do not expect to see poverty because I think that must be in the remotest parts of the country.
If you do want to have a taste of both countries then fly into Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia having booked a trip to either New Delhi, Mumbai or wherever else they fly into India and then come back and fly into one of the cities in China to start your trip there. Air Asia is a low cost Airline based out of Kuala Lumpur which I use from Australia to Asian countries most of the time because they always have good specials ( sign up for their Red Alerts). In fact my husband and I are flying from KL to Myanmar return for $31.47 in September and also using them to go to Beijing in November. Malaysian Airlines usually have good prices from the USA as well. You will probably realize that my hobby is travelling - cannot help myself :0)

I'm going to spend some time re-reading trip reports to see which is more alluring. I almost hate passing up a trip to India while my husband may agree to go - who knows...in the future he could change his mind.

Since we've been to Thailand, Cambodia and Vietnam, I wonder if India will be more "foreign" for us than China. I think my husband's thoughts is that China will have a lot of similarities to what we've already seen and I'm wondering if he is correct.

I'venotbeeneverywhere - Unfortunately, due to time constraints, we do not want to flit from one country to another. The lots of shopping part of travel is not really an appeal to us. While we would like to see both modern and old China, it is the old China and the spectacular sites and scenery that are more appealing rather than the large cities and shopping.

Kathie - you are correct...I still need to do more reading. Thank you all for your imput. I will continue to due my research. In the meantime, all opinions regarding which country is your favorite and why are appreciated.

Oh, ptooey, I didn't chew your ear. Not even a little nip. Take your husband to India while he's still crazy enough to do it. Make the bookings tomorrow. You won't regret it. India is a great adventure. Go read some of mine:
http://thedogster.wordpress.com/

Click on the book. Read.

On second thoughts, maybe Dogster's adventures might put you OFF!. lol.

I do believe that dogster has yet to wag his tail in China. But we'll refrain from hoisting him with his own petard again.

India and China will be different from what you've previously experienced. Go where you feel most drawn to.

Dogster - I've been reading through your report "The Great Stubble Forward" and have been laughing all morning long. Just love your writing style - and no...it does not put me off! I'll have to read the rest along with other trip reports. Truly - you've not yet been to China? Did you get to Vietnam?

As Dogster said, "India is a great adventure". Our visit to India was fascinating and unforgettable and, in many ways, a great adventure.
Yes, China is interesting and also fascinating but it does not compare to India as an adventure and truly different travel experience. Despite many misgivings, my wife and I went there in 2006, guided expertly by VP Singh (legendsandpalaces.com). It was a trip we will never forget.Be advised, however, that you will either love it or, possibly, hate it.
If you do decide to do India, you should certainly consider a private guided tour. The cost will be quite reasonable and, depending upon your choice of hotels, will certainly be less that a comparable trip to China.
By the way, I was 69 and my wife 67 when we went there.

Well I'm very happy I made you laugh. The adventures of Mr. Dogster are a pathetic parade of stupidity, as you see. There, but for the grace of God, go you. Pick some juicy stories for your loved husband, with my compliments.

Nope, never been drawn to China and, I must confess, the more I read of Peter N-H's rants in Fodors, the less I want to go. He is the anti-travel agent. However, I was in Vietnam, again, just last week. Right now I'm in Cambodia, but just till tomorrow. I feel Bangkok needs me now.

And, without having tried him, I'd second JerryS's recco of the esteemed Mr VP Singh. He's been consistently excellent with advice in Fodors for ages. Now, I'll just pop in and shave a bit off The Great <i>Stubble</i> Forward.

No stress, no rush, dogster, but we will be delighted to hear about your latest river cruise experience.

China and India are of course completely different. However, the most important factor to me would be the time of year of the trip. Much as I love India, I would not recommend that a first time visitor go there between April and about end September. In many places it will be beastly hot (over 100 F on average and easily 110 in many places), and then from June or so in many places it will be raining very heavily. While the monsoon has a certain beauty to it, I am not sure it can be appreciate by a first-time visitor. And someplace like Goa in July when there will be 30 inches of rain may not be enjoyable for <i>any</i> visitor.

Conversely, if you plan a Jan or Feb trip, many parts of the PRC will be cold to freezing. Fine for sightseeiing provided you are prepared for it; but some people don't like cold-weather touring. Also work around the Lunar New Year, as you don't want to be travelling in or to the PRC at the beginning or end, and can find shops/restaurants to be closed for a week or so in most parts of the PRC (other than Hong Kong).

If it were my trip, I would go to India. But that is just me. And I have already seen the Great Wall, Forbidden City and other sites in the PRC enough times. If you have not, then perhaps that would be a good choice. I am also not a huge shopper (although India certainly has that as well, and I am not sure China is any better, and less so for things like jewelry and handicrafts.) I think the culture/spirituality/arts of India are more interesting, and I like the food better. I think the people are far, far friendlier (the above comment is the first I have ever seen about the “friendly” Chinese. I live in Hong Kong, which has many great points, but friendly locals are not one of them.)

All comments are greatly appreciated. We have learned our lesson well after spending 3 1/2 weeks in Vietnam in May. Never again! So...the weather factor is already in the equation. We will continue to do our reading. Part of me says to go to India while my husband is so inclined. I never thought he would even consider going there. But, I will leave the ultimate decision to him (with a little guidance), as his preference would be to take a road trip around the USA or to go to Italy or Greece. I don't think I could go wrong with either India or Greece. How bad can life be when the greatest thing to anguish about is whether to go to China or India!

Taking a break from sightseeing to chime in...

Cicerone - I, too, found Chinese people friendly - several, especially but not exclusively English-speakers, went well out of their way to be helpful. That was outside the main east coast cities, but I didn't need help there!

dgunbug - of course, this is like asking whether you should eat goat vindaloo or chicken kungpao for dinner, but if your husband may change his mind about India why take the risk?

India is sensory overload and in-your-face poverty, an experience you won't forget and may both love and hate. Sometimes it seems that everything China has, India has more of: more color (clothes and temples), more noise, more dirt, more smells (both good and bad), many more genuine historical sights (China having destroyed so much during the Cultural Revolution, and being busy replacing what's left with concrete and glass).

The food is wonderful in both countries, although perhaps more varied in China. Both countries have high mountains, but it's easier to get to them in India. Both countries have extreme poverty, but India's is more obvious, at least in the cities - you don't get beggars bothering you in China. Both countries have extensive train networks, but Chinese topp classes are more comfortable, and the trains are more likely to be on time.

India has the beaches of Goa and the backwaters of Kerala if you go south. And incomparable Varanasi in the north. In either country, getting even a little off the main tourist trail pays dividends. You can travel both countries independently, and even if you use a car and driver, get out and walk the streets - you learn a lot more doing that - but the sidewalks are much better in China.

Thursdaysd - thanks for charming in. Anyone else out there?

I've never been to China, so am not qualified to answer your original question. But considering your husband's preference for Greece--take advantage of his flexibility while you can!! (-:
Now if you asked me to chose between Greece (where i have been) and India, for me that's easy: Incredible India!!!

lol, Cali, Greece is probably the country I've visited that I liked least! So definitely steer him in a differnt direction - eith India or China.

We've spent 6 weeks in Greece already...so definitely time to venture somewhere else, although we loved it and don't mind going back. I told him I would compromise and go on 2 trips this year. Sadly, he is still working and cannot take that much time.

Question - is India do-able on a moderate budget? Sadly, my husband is unwilling to stay in the 5 + star hotels, given their price. Can it be done at around $100 or less per day for a decent hotel in a decent area?

Dgunbug,

Not everyone rcan afford, the high prices of 5* Indian hotels--and not everyone wants to stay in them, even if they could. IF you read only this forum for India hotel advice, you you might get the impression that you have to spend big bucks for a decent, clean place in a safe area. With all due respect to fellow Fodorites, there is an emphasis on options that are at least $250 night and often waayyyy more (Oberois , Taj, Devi Garh, etc) The two ITC 5* stayed at were indeed fantastic but without Starwood Points, i woudnt have chosen them. Im Amritsar i stayed at a wonderful "5*" hotel that was $120/night, including a fantastic huge breakfast buffet.


I dont think it "sad" that your husband doesnt want to spend on 5* hotels. Good for him!!!

So the answer to your question is a resounding YES!!! There are not just decent hotels but also wonderful homestays and B&Bs that are within your budget. I am always researching to feed my India dreams, so i have ideas: places at which I've stayed, and others at which i'd like to and will stay in the future.

the biggest expense for me India is getting there. Could that be a stumbling block to traveling there, compared to travel to China???(Not ahveing beento CHina, i dont know) Form the US at least, figure about $1400 round trip for each (with variation of course, based on airlines, time of yr, departure point>

CaliNurse - thanks for your imput. We have frequent flyer miles so that is not a concern. We've been lucky enough to be able to use them for the last 2 trips to Asia and are flexible enough in our dates that we "hopefully" can get them again. I would expect that China air tickets are equally expensive.

Bear in mind that if your trip is during the high tourist season (November – March) prices will be affected by that. However, I would say that outside of some major cities (esp Delhi, Mumbai, Bangalore) and outside of the heavily touristed “Golden Triangle” area of Agra-Jaipur-Udaipur, you should have no problem with that budget. You are unlikely to go to Bangalore as a tourist, and I would suggest you skip Mumbai as a first-time tourist (other than perhaps to fly into or out of on an international flight). But even within the touristed Golden Triangle and Delhi, you will certainly find hotels at and below that amount. They may have old furniture and bathrooms, service may be a bit spotty, the lights may go out from time to time, but they should be fine. It is a matter of what you are comfortable with. In Delhi I would say you may want to spend more to get a better hotel, although there are certainly options in the US$100 range (don’t forget tax, you don’t indicate if your budget includes tax. Most hotels will also include breakfast in the rate). In Delhi location can also be an important factor which may be worth paying a bit more for. While virtually all areas of India are safe, being closer to tourist sites, restaurants, shopping, etc can be an advantage given the traffic issues in many cities, esp Delhi.

Outside of the main cities and the main tourist areas, you will find far lower prices, paying half your budgeted amount would be more typical. The Amritsar example above is a good one (although it is above your budget and it is not clear to me if the price included tax. But it sounds like it was good value for the price.) The south is quite inexpensive, and you may even be able to include what you might consider to be 5* hotels (other than perhaps Goa and Kerala in high season, but again, bargains can be found.)

I don’t really recommend travelling in the hot/monsoon season from April – September. It is possible, and prices are lower, but you really have to be prepared for brutal temps. If you want your DH to hate India (and lord it over you forever), this would give him a good opportunity to do so. If you go in the hot season, you have to make sure your hotel has air conditioning.

A very useful website for hotels in India is http://sawdays.co.uk/, click on the book for India. You can also buy the book, <i>Special Places to Stay India</i>, but the website will give you a very long list of hotels to start with. A lot of these hotels are in the budget range, and all seem interesting and several, like the Imperial in Delhi, are outstanding (but it’s not a budget hotel by any means). Two good operators generally in India are the Oberoi group (http://www.oberoihotels.com) and the Taj group (www.tajhotels.com. ), they offer budget hotels within their offerings, so check their websites. There is a small Indian chain called Neemrama which operates a number of unique hotels in palaces and other old buildings and could be something to consider if you want a different experience. Go to http://www.neemranahotels.com. The Sarovar group has some nice hotels, see http://sarovarhotels.com/. Ginger hotels runs some decent budget hotels, see http://www.gingerhotels.com/ . Sheraton and Marriott run a number of good hotels in India as well, generally in the major cites and if you have points, this is a good place to redeem them. Finally, get the <i>Lonely Planet Guide</i>, they do budget travel in SE Asia better than Fodors and Frommers, IMO. (You can buy and print out just certain sections of their guidebooks by going to their website, although their guides generally are worth buying in their entirety IMO.) Their “high end” reccos are usually very good value for money, although lately they seem to veer toward the more expensive end (they include the Imperial in New Delhi for example which is decidedly not a budget hotel); so if those seem too much go with the “middle end” reccos.

As a final note, in India (as in China), the “star” rating system for hotels is meaningless, so don’t believe the hype on a website or from a travel agent. A hotel can have a 5 Star rating based on room size and the fact that it has a beauty parlor, and despite the fact that it has not replaced (nor cleaned) the carpeting in its rooms in 25 years. I can’t stress enough that India (or Asia for that matter) is not Europe where you can choose any 2 or 3-star hotel and know that it will be clean, although simple. India’s hotel industry is still in it’s infancy (there are more hotels in Orlando Florida than there are in ALL of India), which is another reason good hotels can be more expensive than you would expect in a relatively poor country. Tripadvisor.com has more and more Indian hotels on it, and is useful for opinions. It will also be about expectations, so if you know what to expect from an Indian 3 star (versus say a Swiss 3 star), then you should have a perfectly fine experience.

It's very difficult to give advice as to where to travel because everyone's different. We kept putting India off because people kept telling us not to go, then when we did go last October we loved it. We were in China 2 years ago and I have to say I'm glad I went but both my husband and myself wouldn't want to go back again, it didn't do much for us. Pricewise you can visit both and stay in nice hotels for your budget, we are not 5* travellers although we do splash out now and again and like to stay in nice places. We were there for 3 weeks but spent our last week in Goa relaxing before flying home, the total cost for the 2 weeks visiting Rajasthan, Varanasi and Mumbai was 2450 Euros (3200 US dollars)this included return flights to Europe, all hotels including the Lalit in Delhi and the Sheraton in Agra, the other hotels were all heritage like hotels, our flight to Varanasi and flight to Mumbai and all drivers and train travel, this doesn't include meals but you can eat out very cheaply in India. We never used guides as we got any info that we needed from our 2 guide books; the "Lonely planet" and the "Eyewitness" guides Our main concern in India was getting sick but we actually came home 5 kg. heavier, we never ate in retaurants that weren't recommended by fellow travellers and definitely didn't touch street food and we were fine. If it was my choice I would definitely choose India but I'm sure in the end you'll visit both, one next year and the other the year after.

Thank you all for your replies. This information is very helpful.

i did not read all of this, but to me the time of year might make a difference when i went, especially to india.....the best india travel is generally done in nov-jan.....

to me india is the most "foreign" experience i could imagine for anyone....it is fantastic... if you decide on it you probably will want to have an indian agency assist you for first time travel..... we loved having our driver and loved having all the assistance along the way.... not sure for a first time i could have done it solo.... but just cause you have assistance does not mean that you do not need to do your homework as well...

a wonderful first trip is the so called golden triangle: delhi, agra, jaipur and their enviorns.....plenty to do there for a few weeks... don't miss out on some heritage hotels: we loved the neemrana fort palace hotel not far from delhi...

china too is fabulous and has so many different regions...

I've been to both India and China, but only around 16 days in each country.. We enjoyed the sightseeing in both countries very much. They sites we visited were outstanding and memorable . The difference for me was the overwelming, in your face poverty in India which I did not feel was as apparent in China. While travelling through China I kept thinking, I could definately return and see more of this country. While travelling through India, I kept thinking how could the government let people live like this. I am sure I thought I would never return to India. However, after a 2 or 3 year hiatus, I have decided to return to southern India, and am presently researching a trip for Jan. So I guess I would say that you need to decide based on the time of year you are going, your interests, and whether you think your husband would be comfortable in a chaotic environment where the poverty is apparent at almost every turn. Judging by your Vietnam trip report, I am fairly sure that you would enjoy either country.

You have all given me much to think about. Both trips sound marvelous, but I will defer to my husband since he is wavering again about going back to Asia this year. Tonight during dinner he suggested spending time in Italy, so we will just have to see. I am hoping to convince him that we can visit Italy down the road. (We've both been to Italy before, although he has seen much more than I have)

Thank you all again for your information. Last night we actually made a decision on next year's travels. My DH is leaving it up to me and we will be going to India. Truth be told, I am a bit frightened by the prospect, but also extremely excited! Now we must figure out a plan for 3 1/2-4 weeks, subject to availability of ff airline tickets sometime in November/December 2011. It's a long way off, but lots of time to read and decide.

Did you drug him? Bravo.

You know Dogster...there are other methods that woman can use to make dogs wag their tails!

Great choice. I think China would be easier to visit even when you are older. India better to go when you still have youth on your side! :-) (My husband and I are in our 60's.) I traveled to India this year with friends (hubby stayed home) and loved it. Photography is part of the allure for me and India has artful scenes wherever you go and most people are happy to be a part of them. I'm already planning to go back--next time with husband--and friends. I have several photos posted at www.pattyroth.com from India and only a few from China--if photos help you. Bon Voyage!

dgunbug, From the descriptions of your trip to Vietnam, I think you're going to love it.

Patty - Thanks for your feedback. I love the way you have a mirror image of the pictures. It gives them an added dimension. How did you do that?

CFW - I'm really excited and I think my husband is too. He's starting to read up on India and he's already taking notes. Hopefully we won't have any snags when it comes to getting airline tickets. As it is, we are short on frequent flyer miles and will likely have to buy some.

fantastic!!!!!!!! get yourself some help from india....i really worked well with castle and king in delhi....he allowed me to book a few things myself as well as use his driver the whole time...

don't rush....there is tons to see....

We also used Castle & King & the service & arrangements were great. Arvind is the owner and very responsive. In addition to the sights, the people we encountered were incredible. There is a great thread on fodors now with some suggestions of terrific books about India. http://www.fodors.com/community/asia...ading-list.cfm

If you are interested in history, Freedom at Midnight by Dominique Lapierre & Larry Collins is terrific. It reads like a novel and provides great background.