BURMA--trip planning..
 

As some of you know from reading several other threads here, I am planning to visit Burma with two friends next winter. We will take the 2-week Pandaw cruise on the Irrawaddy, departing March 1. (booked separately)

I just received a quote from one of the Yangon travel agencies recommended here (Gracious Myanmar) and am a bit surprised/shocked by the price. I did ask the TA to swap the InlePrincess for the InleLake View Resort,and to get us to Mandalay at the end, so that we can continue on to Shanghai from there.

Please let me know what you think:



Day 1. 26.02.2010 Friday
Arrival Yangon, GMT guide Ko Nyi Nyi Will meet on your arrival. Overnight at Savoy Hotel.
Day 2. 27.02.2010 Saturday
Fullday sight seeing, overnight at Savoy Hotel.
Day 3. 28.02.2010 Sunday
Fullday sightseeing, overnight at Savoy Hotel.
Day 4. 01.03.2010 Monday
Early morning transfer to Chatrium Hotel meeting point for driving to Pyay.
Pandaw, your own arrangement

PANDAW CRUISE (not included)


Day 17. 15/03/2101 Monday.
Pickup by GMT guide Ko Nyi Nyi in Mandalay jetty, check in at Emerald Land Inn.
Sightseeing Mandalay's highlights.
Day 18. 16/03/2010 Tuesday
Morning flight to Heho, transfer to Inle Lake and overnight at Inle Princess Resort.
Starts with boat trip to Inle lake or half day at leisure,
Day 19. 17/03/2010 Wednesday
Sightseeing in the lake and around lake.
Day 20. 18/03/2010 Thursday
Afternoon flight to Yangon, transfer to international airport for TG flight to Bkk at 1955hrs. If time permits in between connection flight you can visit agaain Yangon City or we
can arrange day room at airport hotel.

Estimate cost
1/ 1267.00 US Dollar per person sharing Double Room
2/ 1467.00 US Dollar per person in Single Room

Price Includes
# English speaking thrughout guide
# Domestic flights ( Mandalay-Heho-Yangon )
# Transfers and land transportation with aircondition car
# Hotel accommodation with breakfast mentioned in our program
# Entrance fee as mentioned in our tour program
# Boat fee at Inle Lake


Related threads here:
http://www.fodors.com/community/asia...ll-me-more.cfm

http://www.fodors.com/community/asia...-lake-view.cfm

http://www.fodors.com/community/asia...e-vs-savoy.cfm


Many, many thanks to everyone who has been so extraordinarily helpful so far!

Eks,

I think you'll find the prices are pretty much the same if you use a TA for everything. We had the same kind of quotes from at least 4 travel agents so in the end we ended up booking the hotels our self and only using the TA for the flights.

For example - your itinerary if I were to do the booking myself:

# English speaking throughout guide / About $25 - 30 per day for the whole group when needed.
# Domestic flights ( Mandalay-Heho-Yangon ) / About $75 per sector per person so the total will be $150.
# Transfers and land transportation with air condition car / The hotel at Inle can arrange this and in Mandalay and Yangon I would use a taxi - total about $50 per taxi for the 3 towns for 3 people or $17 each.
# Hotel accommodation with breakfast mentioned in our program / Savoy(rack rate) = $180 nett for an executive suite inc breakfast or $90 per person per night. Inle Princess(rack rate) = $250 for a lake view chalet or $125 per person.
# Entrance fee as mentioned in our tour program / miniscule $20 top for the whole trip.
# Boat fee at Inle Lake / the hotel will arrange a boat for you at a cost of around $25 per day for the whole boat which can seat upto 5 - 6 people.

So the total roughly would come to about $800 per person staying in the best rooms at each resort(using the expensive rack rate), I don’t know the kind of room your TA have in mind.

We did substantially better than the rack rates by booking our hotels through Santa Maria. They itemized everything for us so we knew where the savings were. Our airfares were also booked through Santa Maria. While we did not save anything on airfare versus booking on line, they did reconfirm all of our flights for us (important!) so we didn't have to worry about it.

Can you book Nyi Nyi without going through Gracious Myanmar?

Thanks to you both. The more I think about it, the more ridiculous that price seems--this is for 6 nights and they are giving me a total of about $4,000 for three people! Would it be out of line for me to inquire about an itemized price list?

Craig: I will contact Santa Maria and see what they offer, and if it is not substantially different, I will proceed as directed by Agent Hanuman. Do we have any guide references for that agency? (I already have one name (female guide) NOT to use..) Who is the person I should direct my e-mail to at Santa Maria?

I would like to book NyiNyi on my own, but have no contact info..

eks - the only thing that would be out of line is overpaying. My contact at Santa Maria has moved to Singapore. Just send them a general inquiry. I would start by asking for a quote on hotel prices and then follow-up with queries on airfare, guides etc. That is the way I usually do it and it assures that I get itemized prices.

Eks,

Another TA for you to get a quote from for hotels and airfare but this one is in Thailand - [email protected]

The agency is Global Union and they have affiliated offices in Myanmar as well. http://www.guetravel.com/index.asp

Tell them you are a friend of Pook.

Excellent! I have already sent off a request for detailed breakdown to original agent, Gracious Myanmar, as well as request for quotes from Santa Maria.

Will proceed to follow up with the two sources provided by Hanuman. Will mention "secret" alias.

Perhaps you should start your Burma trip report now. That is the best chance that it will be timely. The only chance.

Thank you for the comment from the Panda gallery. Just to give you some grist for your mill, I happen to be plodding ever-so-slowly through my Italy report at the moment.

I leave your delinquency on the Italy report to my betters on the Europe forum. I can assure you that there is no Panda gallery. Who else would be in it? Think of it more as a bamboo tower.

Bamboo tower, indeed!

Anyway, I received a nice note and an itemized price breakdown from Santa Maria. For example, their Savoy Yangon rates are $95 single with breakfast; $105 dbl with breakfast. Better than the online rate. There is a difference in price of about $10 per day (I assume per person; there are three of us) depending on whether we use a saloon car (4 seater) or town car/ace (5-seater) Any thoughts on this?

Also, the original agent, Sonny at Gracious Myanmar, responded to my request for a scale-back, suggesting that I do not use the same guide in both Yangon and Inle Lake. If I use their local Inle guide, this will cut costs since NyiNyi would not have to make the trip to Heho/Inle to meet us there. Thoughts on this?

Go with the bigger vehicle. Otherwise you may end up sitting on your luggage. Remember - you need room for the three of you plus the guide and driver.

You could always use NyiNyi in Yangon and Joyce (our guide) at Inle Lake.

Will do as you suggest and ask for the larger car.

Using NyiNyi in Yangon and Joyce in Inle would be ideal...do you suppose I can use either of these through either of the 2 agencies I contacted? Because NyiNyi guided Gloria, who booked through Graious Myanmar, and Joyce appears to work with Santa Maria.. Are these guides generally freelancers?

Joyce was definitely a freelancer as was our guide in Bagan. I am not sure about the guides in Yangon.

Thanks, Craig! I found Joyce's full name and contact info in your trip report!

On a related subject, there is a new film about Burma that premiered in the US at Sundance; the NY Times gave it an excellent review this week:

http://festival.sundance.org/2009/fi...films/burma_vj



http://movies.nytimes.com/2009/05/20...0burm.html?hpw

I hope you can hook up with Joyce. Please mention Craig and Jeane (or as Gpanda would recommend: Jeane and Craig). Hopefully the word will get out about the film.

I heard back from the first agent, in response to my outline. Please let me know what you think and if I left anything out. The new price is now quite a bit lower (original prices in OP) :


"Single 1163.-USD/person if Nyi Nyi not following 1095.-USD/person
Twin sharing 917.-USD/person if Nyi Nyi not following 849.-USD/person

This means One day guide Nyi Nyi in Yangon with car and driver whole day ( Day 2 on 27th Feb ),
Station guide in Mandalay and Inle lake."



The outline I provided was this; since NyiNyi was so highly recommended by Gloria, I am inclined to have him guide us for the entire trip since the price difference is not great.


(This is the plan I sent to the agent):

Airport transfers, Yangon
Savoy Hotel, Yangon--3 nights:

One single deluxe room ($140 US rack rate; excluding breakfast; including tax and service)

One double deluxe room facing pool area ($150 rack)

One day touring with guide NyiNyi in Yangon


3/15 Transfer dock to hotel in Mandalay.
1 single room; one double room at Emerald Land Inn, Mandalay. (I am going to inquire bout the Inn at Red Canal in Mandalay)
City touring in afternoon with NyiNyi.

3/16 flights to Heho; transfer to Inle Lake View Resort--two nights at Inle Lake View Resort (one single deluxe lake view room; one double deluxe lake view room).
Afternoon sightseeing.

3/17 Sightseeing in and around lake with guide; including boat rental fees and air con car/driver

3/18 Transfer to Heho airport; flight to Mandalay in time to connect with China Eastern flight #2030 departing Mandalay at 2:40pm

Did I leave out anything? Many thanks!

This is a bit confusing, eks. If you are comfortable with the revised pricing, go with it. You can always ask the agent to make changes later.

Thanks, Craig. I will do just that. I have not heard back from Santa Maria yet, but I am sure that both agencies are very good...I am probably obsessing over minor details, as usual...

As you know, I researched doing a Pandaw trip. My memory is that the Pandaw cruise includes a night or two hotel stay at the end of the trip. I was looking at a different cruise, but a two night stay in Rangoon was included. Check your cruise - you might have a night in Mandalay included at the end of your cruise.

I just checked Kathie, they used to include those pre- and post hotels - now they are a separate deal.

By the time February 2010 comes, eks will have spent more time in Fodor's 'obsessing over minor details,' [her words] than she will spend in Burma.

On the guide: how does he get from Yangon to Mandanday? Mandalay to Inle? Flying, of course. Where does he stay in Mandalay? Inle Lake? At a hotel, of course. Does he get an out-of town travel allowance? Yup.

Who pays for all of of this? You.

Really? They were still included when I researched a cruise for my upcoming November trip. Things change.

Yup, I was surprised too - but the Pandaw hotels are so crappy I never bothered with them anyway. Certainly for eks cruise, anyway. I didn't check out any of the others.

But there are big changes at Pandaw, as you know - all for the better I think. I'm impressed with that organisation.

Eks,

Just a thought but if you're adventurous and armed your self with the latest LP, you will not need a guide IMO. That will save you a lot of $.

At Inle the boat captain will take you the prearranged destinations which you could sort out the day before with the hotel manager. In Yangon a guide can be useful meeting you at the airport and sending you off but you can definitely do without a guide. The hotels will have have booklets, brochures and printouts of all the sites.

If you will be by yourself then a guide is a good idea and will make a good companion.

One more year until we find out if Jack will make it!

Jack, schmack. Who needs him when we have our own secret agent Hanuman?

I have been corresponding with the two agencies and have yet to nail down some details and decide which one to use. This is the breakdown Santa Maria sent me in response to my list of desired services; they are less costly in part because I did not ask them for one guide who would accompany us throughout,as I did with the first agency who has promised NyiNyi. (See Dogster's comments above on this issue; one reason I am leaning toward more guiding than necessary is because my two older friends will be so shell-shocked by the time they reach Burma, that a guide will come in handy as I attempt to calm them down!) (Thanks, Dogster!!)

I will not bother with posting the hotel rates, unless anyone is interested. But have I left anything out here? Or included too much?

I have just picked up the (not current) LP Burma guide at the library and will read tonight; will be ordering their new guide asap, so will have a better idea of the lay of the land than I do right now.













CAR (Town Ace; seats 5)

Two full day use in Yangon USD110
Pandaw Dock Transfer USD 20
Afternoon touring in Mandalay USD 52
Mandalay airport transfer USD 25
Heho airport to Nyaungshwe USD 50
Nyaungshwe to Heho airport USD 50
TOTAL USD307
OR Per Person USD102

BOAT:

Normal Full day sightseeing on Inle lake USD25
A visit to Indein village USD30
Boat transfer to Nyaungshwe USD12
USD67
Per Person USD22

FLIGHTS


Mandalay – Heho USD37
Heho-Mandalay USD37
Per Person USD74




GUIDE


2 days in Yangon USD30
1 day in Mandalay USD15
2 days in Inle lake USD50
USD95 OR Per Person USD32




Total, with three hotels (6 nights total) comes to $932 single (me) and $596 EACH double.


I do realize that posting this long list of prices is pretty sleep-inducing, so feel free to ignore without risking offense!!

Moving along here with the planning.

Question:

The TA in Burma wants photo copies of our passports, which he says are necessary in order for him to book intl flights (Burma-Shanghai). Have any of you encountered this before? Any problems with providing the requested photocopies? (I would send by postal mail).

I've sent copies a number of times, the most recent being my South African agent. I can't see any harm resulting from this. Better than sending the actual passport. It all comes down to how much you trust the agent overall.

Copies of passports are no problem but do look at competitor's pricing for international flights as your TA (not sure who you have decided to use) may not give you the best deal.

Craig: Thanks for the tip. It does appear to be a bit more problematic to book these flights with the Burma agent. I will be sure to check the pricing. I also have a request out for pricing from a US-based agent (the one who I used to book the Pandaw) and will also check with a Bangkok agent.

The stumbling block seems to be that, although the China Eastern site shows a daily flight from Mandalay to Kunming, the Yangon agent has informed me today that this flight (China Eastern 2030) does not depart from Mandalay every day and, in fact, departs from Yangon-Kunming on the day we hope to travel. This throws off the whole schedule that I have devised! (I am trying to get from Heho to Kunming without having to return to Yangon and in time to make a connection from Kunming to Shanghai)

I am not sure why the discrepancy (change in schedule for 2010 that is not yet posted on the ChinaEastern website??) but will check further.


The TA has told me that in order to proceed, and to get more complete information, he needs copies of the first passport page.

So far, I am proceeding with GRacious Myanmar. The agent/owner is Sonny and he has been very responsive. I had also been in touch with Santa Maria and also had excellent responses. Pricing was more or less the same. It was difficult to decide and, of course, no monies have changed hands yet.

GM was the first agency I contacted, based on the raves from Gloria on this site.


http://www.myanmartravelagent.com/greeting.htm


If the responses that I received are any guide, both agencies would provide first-rate service.

Thanks again for all of your help so far...

ps..I forgot to say that I requested "your" guide, Joyce, in Inle Lake and sent her contact info to Sonny at Gracious Myanmar.

Make sure that any reply to this thread is undertaken during the work week. Apparently, there is no internet available at Ekscruchy's weekend "retreat".

eks, you are far ahead of me on your booking, and I'm going in November!

Kathie (notice that I have deliberately ignored the snark-fest above your comment), I am not sure that my advance planning is such a good thing. Just a reflection of my obsessive personality! And what is more fun than thinking about a trip, right?

I cannot wait to lurk when you begin planning in earnest for your own trip!

From Wikipedia:

There are several different varieties of snark. Some have feathers and bite, and some have whiskers and scratch. All care has to be taken to not confuse a harmless snark with the apparently very dangerous boojum. The recorded evidence tells of a baker who on encountering a boojum softly and suddenly vanished away and was never met with again. It is not entirely clear whether the boojum is a subtype of snark, or another species entirely, closely resembling the snark superficially. (See also: Mimicry.)

The taste of the snark is meager and hollow, but crisp (apparently like a coat that is too tight in the waist), with a flavor of Will-o-the-wisp. It is sometimes served with greens. It also sleeps late into the day. While the snark is very ambitious, and has very little sense of humor, it is very fond of bathing-machines, and constantly carries them about wherever it goes. It is also handy for striking a light.

The domain of the snark is an island filled with chasms and crags, many months' sail from England. On the same island may also be found other creatures such as the Jubjub and Bandersnatch. It is the same island where the Jabberwock was slain. The snark is a peculiar creature that cannot be captured in a commonplace way. Above all, courage is required during a snark hunt. The most common method is to seek it with thimbles, care, forks, and hope. One may also "threaten its life with a railway share" or "charm it with smiles and soap".


I note that Snarks have little sense of humor. This is clearly inapplicable. Pandas have wonderful senses of humor( note the plural).

eks: Don't know if there is anything I can offer here but good luck - I hope they can book Joyce for you.

Ekscrunchy, I'm lurking here impatiently, waiting to find out more info on the Irrawaddy river trip. We've been thinking about booking same. Can't wait to hear how it goes, and I'm also paying close attention to what side trips you add to it. I love when obsessive/compulsives do all my work for me.
Now I get back from a short trip to hear my husband announce he's THISCLOSE to booking the Mar. 1 trip (I keep yelling "We can't afford this!"), so we may see you there as I apparently I haven't much clout in this relationship.
Just ignore snarks and pandas as they HATE it when you pay them no attention.

I'm not sure if Andy wrote or is going to write the wiki entry for snark but since it's a wiki, you can make your own contribution to the definition.

K-I just cut and paste from Wiki. For informational purposes only. Snark is one of the OP's favorite words.

I had NO idea that this was from Wikipedia! I thought a Speedo-encased Panda had really gone off the deep end! And since I have been accused of overusing the word, I will now try on Bandersnatch for size.

Thanks, Craig. the guy at Santa Maria was really lovely in the e-mails we exchanged. But then, so was Sonny at Gracious Myanmar. I am sure I would be fine with either. I will be asking him shortly if he has managed to get in touch with Joyce.

Leslie: I will certainly let you know all there is to know about the trip. Frankly I am not sure that it is the best choice because 14 days seems like a very long time to be on that ship! I will bring lots of books, and maybe I can even get a jump start on a trip report (!!!)

So more or less, the plan looks something like this; I realize that this is not the plan most people would choose. I am trying to satisfy my friends' desire to see "large container shipping ports," and take at least one long Chinese train ride.

Bangkok--3 nights--hotel to be discussed further (!!)

Yangon--3 nights (My friends will probably meet me here; we are not traveling together since they do not want to leave before a certain date; I am wondering if I need to find someone to meet them and shepherd them to the BKK airport hotel)

Pandaw--14 nights

Mandalay--1 night (have to overnight due to Heho flight timing)..Inn at Red Canal

Inle Lake--2 nights..Lake View Resort

Fly Heho-Mandalay-Kunming-Shanghai or Heho-Yangon-Kunming-Shanghai

Shanghai--3 (?) nights--Le Meridien (?)
(Hangzhou??)

Train to HK--overnight

HK--4 nights..hotel (HK side?) to be discussed further..swimming pool issue due to resurface in discussions

Fourteen nights? This seems extreme. On the slim chance that you do not mesh with everyone on board ( a virtual certainty), might you not consider reducing this by a few days?

What is the adjectival form of Bandersnatch? Without this, your commentary will flag. Note the oft-used "snarky" as an example.