Burma....thoughts??
 

We think we have decided that Burma is to be our next trip. Possibly mid November this year. Hope to have about 19 nights in Burma. I have read the wonderful reports here by Kathie, NYwoman, Craig etc & my Lonely Planet book is on order & hopefully will be here soon! But I can't wait to start thinking/planning so if you don't mind I will give you some of my thoughts & see what you think.........
1. Mid Nov to start out seems like an OK time. Anyone know of any reason why it would not be a good time?

2. I understand that book of things in Burma can be a hassle so think we will use an agent to help with some of this. Would like to have someone book internal flights, perhaps hotels & maybe some transport where it would be helpful. I see that some of yo have used Santa Maria. I googled & think I have found them but just so I know it is the same place does someone have an email address?

3. Itinerary. So my thoughts are.
Yagoon (Rangoon) probably 4 nights say 2 at the beginning & 2 at the end.
Inle Lake 3 or 4 nights
Bagan 3 or 4 nights
Mandalay 3 nights

I don't have this in any particular order yet. Although think we would like to do the river trip between Mandalay & Bagan if we can work it so that would obviously put them in that order.

This still gives us a few days up our sleeve which I am still contemplating........

Thanks for any of your thoughts.

J

Hi,
I am in the planning stage also for a trip in January 2011 and have been in contact with this guide (warmly recommended by someone on TripAdvisor) [email protected]
He seems like a good,reasonable guide.Check him out .
I am also in contact with a travel agency who seems to be very reasonable also : [email protected]
Good luck!

Mid- Nov is just fine.

I'd cut a day (or even 2) from Rangoon.

You want three full days in each Bagan and Inle, IMO. So that may be 4 nights each.

You don't need (or want) a guide with you every minute. At Inle, if you go into Pa-O territory, you'll automatically get a Pa-O guide, and you'll have a boatman. I think that's all you need there.

In Bagan, if you get a knowledgeable horsecart driver, that's all you need. Of course, I highly recommend Minthu.

You'll need a car and driver in Mandalay.

I don't have Santa Maria's email at my finger tips, but if you googled them, you should have a current address. If you have problems, let me know and I'll try to locate it.

I'm sure you'll have a marvelous time!

Thanks cest for the info on the people you have been in contact with. I will look into it. What kind/length of trip are you planning?

Kathie does this look like the Santa Maria you know ??http://www.myanmartravels.net/

I will not be looking for a guide all the way at all. Probably not very much if at all more thinking of times when we might want drivers or airport pickups etc.

I read what you had to say about Minthu & he does sound like a gem.

My thinking on 4 nights in Rangoon was.....arrive in country have remainder of day & whole of next day. Leave the following day. At end of trip. Arrive back to Rangoon at some time have remainder of day whole of next day & then leave the next day so there would only actually be 2 full days. Depending on how we do the flights we could be in a total jet lag fog the first day!!!

Out of couriosity Kathie if you have a return trip to Burma are there places you did not visit this time that you have on your list for next trip??!

It seems to me a facinating place.

J

Napali beach town look like a nice place to visit if you have time to spare. IMO 3 nights in Mandalay is too long so perhaps 1 or 2 nights there and add a night or two in Napali.

I really enjoyed the Balloon ride in Bagan but I'm not sure if they operate in November or not.

i think there is plenty to do in yangon for 4 days....we spent 5 there and could have used another day or so....

we used naing, as noted above.....he is a really nice guy...

he will go elsewhere with you if you desire as well...

he can arrange things for you too.....but he is not a travel agent...

The email address for Santa Maria Travel is [email protected]. The office is closed until 4/22 due to the Water Festival. I've been in regular contact with Zaw at their office in regards to my trip in December. They are handling my internal flights, one hotel I could not book on my own and a car and driver for travel from Mandalay to Maymyo and back.
My first trip I visited the places you mention and for the same amount of time, maybe one less night in Mandalay. This visit is shorter but I am returning to the same haunts: Rangoon, Bagan and Mandalay/Maymyo, no Inle this trip. I am revisiting these same areas because there is so much to do and see and absorb. I will revisit favorite spots and spend lots of time ambling, meandering and poking around.

With 19 days you can easily do 4 to 5 days Rangoon (an excursion to Pego/Bago was wonderful), 3 days Bagan (Balloons over Bagan operates in Nov.), 3 days Mandalay, 4 full days Inle (so it might require 5 nights) and 3 days at the beach at Ngapali (Sandaway Resort Hotel was a fantastic splurge ending for us).
The order of your visits depends on flight schedules and which flights will maximize your time in each locale. I recommend the longer time in Rangoon because heavy touring in heavy humidity after international flights is not, IMO, a vacation. It ca be oppressively hot in Rangoon (even tho November is the cool season) and many visitors repair to their hotels for a swim and rest during the sauna hours of 12-3 pm. The reason you need several days in Mandalay (even though its not an attractive city) is to visit the surrounding ancient capitols.
If you tell us something about your particular interests (ruins, monasteries, villages/markets, shopping, etc. I'm sure more suggestions will be forthcoming.

Arrival in Rangoon(2 days),flight to Bagan (3 days),Boat cruise to Mandalay (2 days) Mandalay (3 days) return to Rangoon (air) and then drive to Golden Rock,Kyaiktiyo,Moulmein (4 days).
So, 14 days(nights,in fact)

Jules, Santa Maria has a number of email addresses (all the agencies do, since the junta closes down email access, they need to have a number of options). They emailed me from the domain name you mentioned as well as one that is similar to the one Robbie gives.

So where would I go next trip? I would love to go to Marauk-U and to Kalaw and/or Hsipaw. I'd also go to Mandalay, not for the sights in the city, but for the surrounding old capitols. I'd also reserach which ethnic groups have negotiated agreements with the government to be able to collect admission fees from visitors to support improvements in their infrastructure and go to some of those places.

I recommended you cut time in Yangon, not because there is nothing to do/see there, but because of the places we visited in Burma it was the least amazing. It is also hell hot. We were there in November and the heat prevented us from doing some things we would have enjoyed doing (and I'm someone who doesn't hesitate to walk in Bangkok).

cest - you're not going to Inle? Must visit place IMO.

Thanks everyone. Great info.

Robbie to answer your question about our interests would it help to know that we spent 11 days in Siem Reap & never bored of temples. We would happily go back there also! We love small towns & great markets to wander around. (not tourist markets but more local) I like the idea of a river trip between Mandalay & Bagan. I need to look into the 2 day trip but 1 will probably be enough. Beach time doesn't tend to be high on our list but if there interesting stuff in the area it would definately rate.

Cest looks like a good trip you have lined up.

Kathie thanks for your thoughts on where you would go next.

I am starting to get pretty excited!

J

Jules, you could easily spend 5+ days in and around Bagan and 6-8 day around Inle given your interests. We caught a wonderful and very very local market in the far south of Inle (Lont Kant Market) where there were only two other western tourists and spent 5 hours there. How far afield you go, depends on your pace, energy level and tolerance for long drives on dusty, bumpy roads.

I, too, think Rangoon is underrated. I would highly recommend a day tour from Rangoon to Pego (Bego), about 50 miles to the east. The market was wonderfully local, Shwemawdaw Paya was great for people watching and interacting with locals and the monastery (I think the name was something like Ja Kat Waing) offered us a chance to hang out at lunchtime while 700 young and old monks lined up for their rice. Thanlyin is a 1/2 day excursion out of Rangoon worth looking in to.

I had a disappointing experience on the two day Pandaw cruise but that was in large part because it rained heavily for most of the two days (and this was in December). The village visits were interesting. In one village, I would have liked to stay 2-4 hours but the boat group allowed only 45 minutes, frustrating for me.

I found a guide very helpful in the Inle Lake region; he was a local and his knowledge of and entre to minority villages are worthwhile.

There was an interesting village near the beach hotel but it doesn't merit a visit if beach is not a priority for you.

Cest you are making very interesting, well researched ( no doubt) choices in your itinerary and I'll be looking forward to hearing about these areas in your report early next year.

To Hanuman: had to cut Inle due to time constrains. Next time,hopefully...

Robbietravels,thanks for the good words! Will,definitely share results of research here.

Jules we seem to have the same path for travelling. Our next trip will (hopefully) be Burma as well, most likely end of Dec/early Jan.
We were in India at the same time , same place, but never met.
I say hopefully as my husband is not convinced and is leaning towards Syria and Lebanon which would be fine too.

I will be interested in following your planning however and eventually your trip report, becuase if he wont go with me I will go with someone else next year at some point.

live42day I had the same thought when I saw your Burma post! So I will be following your planning too!

We have a few places on the list for our next trip but Burma is rising to the top. Especially since I have just confirmed I can take that time off work in Nov so it is looking like it is on the top of the list now!

Happy planning!

So as I spent some time today looking into things....I think we will have 20 nights in the country. Inle lake area is really grabbing us. There seems to be a lot to see around the area as well as spending time on around the actual lake. For example a day trip out to Kakku. Seems like it would be doable I read a couple of reports that did this?
So I am thinking 5 nights at Inle. Is this crazy??!!! Maybe even 6!

Love the look of Marauk-U. So want to work that into things.

Would like to take a boat say from Mandalay to Bagan but am not sure about the "cruises" How do I know which boat is govt run?

Bagan I think will hold our interest well so 3 or 4 nights. Kathie I value your input on this since I know you were able to spend time in Siem Reap like us so feel we would have similar interest in Bagan. Robbie suggests even more nights which may be the way to go.

A question....as I look at hotels how do I find out if they are govt owned etc??

Thanks for your input

J

I envy how much time you will have in Burma! Inle Lake is fascinating. I think I could easily fill 5 days at Inle. Yes, you can do a day trip to Kakku. We went there on our way from the airport to the Inle Lake View.

We were 4 nights at Bagan, so three full days of touring, but we would have loved even more time. There are thousands of temples - no way to see them all! We spent all of our time on the closer in temples (as we were going by horsecart, which I think is a must-do). If we had more time, I'd take a day with a car and driver for the temples farther away (but I wouldn't go to Mt. Popa). As you know, we loved our horsecart driver and recommend him highly. [email protected] His brother drives a taxi, so it would be easy to arrange that with him.

The Lonely Planet has lot of info on what is or isn't government owned. None of the places we stayed were government owned. I highly recommend the Inle Lake View both because it is lovely and because of the owner's commitment to economic development for the local peoples.

The boat used by locals from Mandalay to Bagan is government owned. Myanmar Air is government owned.

Thanks Kathie. My Lonely Planet book got sidetracked somewhere in delivery so I am still without it which is driving me crazy! I am reading everything I can online but looking forward to getting the book in hand!

We have decided to spend every day we can in Burma. Forgoing any time in Bangkok or the like apart from what we need for flight connections.

I hope your LP will get to you soon. Burma is a place where you need lots of background to do your planning. Oh, take a look at my Kathie's Burma Bookshelf post.

Yes Kathie I hope the LP gets here soon!! I did take a look at your bookshelf. Thanks. I already had a couple of the books & will no doubt be ordering some of the others.

<<My Lonely Planet book got sidetracked somewhere in delivery so I am still without it which is driving me crazy!>>

I have the LP from my local library.

I tried that Luisah & they didn't have it!

"I tried that Luisah & they didn't have it!" - how about your local bookstore? Can you camp out there with a cup of coffee? My local library seems to be economizing - all the guidebooks are at least two or three years old. And would you believe Citi just charged me a foreign conversion fee for buying from Lonely Planet!!! They seem to think it's based in the UK! (If it wasn't for those FF miles...)

Hi I agree with most postings . Inle Lake is absolutely lovely, all Myanmar enchanting. My favourite country as most Burmese are very gracious n genuinely warm.

I went with my sister n a pal from UK stayed @ Inle Resort.It was blissfully quiet on the eastern side with nice sunsets,20 mins boating from Nyaung Shwe. No tour groups and a few small groups of French n US guests as we went mid Dec'09. We had 2d villas twin beds n other a double with a separate lounge all nicely decorated with local handicrafts n paintings. Built by Princess resort owner then sold to a Myanmar or Thai business not Tay. Will dig up the website if interested.

Highlight of our trip was the excursion to Samkar,southern part of Inle Lake <2 hours from Nampan-we collected our charming Pao guide there. The journey ,the places,scenery & people there were amazing n enlightening to say the least. After that we went to the silk weavers to get some presents. We avoided the floating markets(touristy) as I hate crowds. we visited 1 of the rotating 5 day markets @ Mine Thauk n it was very interesting n colourful,bought Inle grass cushions 2/3 for 1000kyat for our patio !!

We're planning to come back to Inle/Samkar again this year, visit diferent rotating markets n new sites eg Mrauk U. Once you visit these people/places you'll get hooked ! Started in'06 just to Yangon n been back every year with differing pals n relatives.

Enjoy
.

Well my head has been buried in the guide book for a couple of days now so I am beginning to feel like I am getting a handle on things!

Just read over on the LP thorntree that visas may be available on arrival for everyone now. Their agent in Yangoon told them & someone else gave this link http://irrawaddy.org/article.php?art_id=18374

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jules, note this isn't a true visa on arrival that is being discussed, but a pre-arranged visa. You can arrange though travel agents. This has apparently been true on and off for some time, but hasn't been reliable in the past.

Yes thats what I understoon kathie. Would be nice if it got to be super reliable though.

Santa Maria Travel has sent me the packet of info. There does seem to be a new system. The title of the information page is "Myanmar Visa on Arrival, subtitel: New System begun to practice from 01 May 2010". After describing the ports of entry and visa requirements (photos, time remaining on passport, etc), there is a heading "Administrative Body" saying "There will be an administrative body of eight officers from various government ministries comprising immigration, Foreign Affairs, Special Police, Defense, Hotel & Tourism and Aviation. This administrative body will be led by a deputy director from immigration, Manpower and National Registration. The Myanmar visa on-arrival will be issued or rejected by a team of 15 officers as determined by the administrative body"[sic]

The new visa app is only one page instead of two and does not ask about work history or previous Burma visas approved or rejected as did the visa app you had to send in to the Embassy of the Union of Myanmar in DC. It is much more user friendly. I've conjured up several motive scenarios for this streamlined app.

I just tried to attach it here but no luck. If someone needs a copy, post your email address and I'll send it to you.

Robbie or Jules, if you decide to use it, do let us all know how it goes. I've followed discussions of this for years over on Thorntree and many people would love to see this become a reliable way to get a visa.

What does unreliable in the past mean? I don't want trouble entering Burma, though I'm always happy to have less paperwork. I've been planning on applying through the embassy in a few days for my visit this July.

INLE LAKE; Didn't know if I should start another thread on this or not. I will start here & see how I go! I am looking at different places to stay around the lake. Have decided I don't really mind where it is located (as in east or west). What I am wondering is how do you get to all of the places. Do you have to take a boat from Nyaungshwe to each of the places on the lake? I know I have read of some that it is about an hours boat ride to the hotel. Others 20 mins? Does anyone know of some that have some villages within walking distance? I am getting so confused as a lot of the names are simialar! The place Kathie stayed at looks lovely. I am sure we would like that. There was also a recent post with someone following up on where they stayed at the Pristine Lotus which also sounds like it would be great. I know I am thinking about this too much! I am attempting to avoid govt owned places. Not sure of the Pristine Lotus status on this. So any comments on location & the boat ride to get there would be good. By the way I am not objecting to the boat ride I am just trying to get my bearings! Thanks so much.

Hi,will add my input too, my Yangon agent said to wait n see,yesterday.
Anyway I have done VOA with him for us as there were no Myanmar embassy in Greece Nov'08. I went a day earlier n rendezvous with my 2 Greek pals in Yangon. I wanted to try out VOA then just in case any problems crop up as this was their 1st trip n their husbands n friends said they were crazy to come ! My agent met me @ the Immigration counter, took my passport etc to go inside their offices,I waited 10 mins then all is OK. All he needed was a photocopy of my Passport to process. So if you have a tour plan they agent will fill up the forms for you. So next day I went to airport with agent n same procedure was repeated for my pals.

Usually we have to fill 3 forms n paste our mug shots to them, also get our company letter if you are still working ,go in the morning,queque n wait 30 mins or more asked why you're going then wait 3 working days (no exceptions !) to pick up in the 4th afternoon.But we had to give then 2-3 weeks because they had to travel to the new capital Nap... to ptocess this.Also sometimes they make mistakes n get flight times wrong/ day .Pls check n confirm the plan they send back.

Jules, re: Inle Lake Plan that you will be in and out of the boat all day each day you are at Inle (except the day you go to Kakku). Basically, all the places you want to see (villages, temples, stupa forests) are all along lake and the lake is the best transportation (roads are awful to non-existent in many of these areas). Some hotels do require a boat trip to get there from the airport, The Inle Lake View does not (an advantage, IMO). The Prisitne Lotus is owned by the same guy who owns the Aureum, a crony of the generals. I tried to avoid places he owned.

If you stayed at Nyaungshwe, you'd be in a town, but you'd still have to get a boat to visit any of the places on the lake, which is what you want to see.

Thanks for the info Kathie. We are definately planning on being out on the lake all day most day. I was more thinking about arrival & departure days, whether it is a boat transfer to the so you covered that for me. I am getting my bearings now. Thanks also for the info on the Lotus it is the sort of thing I want to know.

I am at that stage of research that I am starting to think "am I getting it all right"!
Hotels. Trying to stay in non govt places I using the LP as a guide for that but then I did a search on one web site that said something about the hotel being govt owned. There was no mention of this in LP. I have been in touch with Santa Maria who have been great in responding. I was under the impression that they promote the use of "private" hotels but do see that they have some hotels on their web site that folks here have mentioned they found out had govt affiliations. (eg the hotel Craig stayed in in Bagan)I have been using their list of hotels as a resource. So...do I just plug on & ask Santa Maria if the hotels are privately operated. Likewise I am assuming that Santa Maria is as they say a private company...I am beginning to obsess aren't I??!! I know several of you have used Santa Maria & have been very happy with them as have others on other sites & I have had some great input from them so far.

Would appreciate any input any of you have.

Apart from my obsessions!! I am having a great time planning so fingers crossed it all comes together.

Thanks J

Yes, Santa Maria is privately owned. But they will put you in any hotel you want. The Aureum group is privately owned, but by Tay Za, a crony of the Generals. The LP is a good resource on private vs. gov't owned, and they also point out those that are owned by Tay Za (who also owns Bagan Air). Even I had to concede that the government was going to get more of my money than I'd like... be conscientious but don't have the illusion you can be perfect.

Let me ruminate, jules... you know this is not an attack.

Apart from the one on one arrangements you can make, like Kathy's with her horse-cart driver, I frankly don't think any decisions you make will do anything but make you feel good. With the greatest respect for your motives, I simply don't think any of us know enough to make any decisions based on Govt/private. etc. Unless you're in a guest-house, I suspect anywhere upmarket will have issues.

I say, I suspect, because I don't really know. Neither does anyone. Research all you like, but, given the paucity of actual information about ANYTHING in Burma, I'm wondering just how we think we're gonna find out about the finances of any instituion.

I don't believe that anywhere dealing with tourists [en masse] in Burma is free from Govt. kick-back, intrigue, graft, taxes and corruption. [Not unlike Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam...] Do we imagine that Santa Maria doesn't have to deal with the Govt? Or anyone else, for that matter. Are there taxes in Burma? Special presents? Kick-backs? Do we imagine that our trusty guides have no contact with the Govt? Err - where did they train to be a guide? When you go to Kakku, do you really think that sweet local guide is just that...? Maybe you should read his report about you, the one he has to write at the end... I dunno. All I know is that I dunno.

Kathie's advice is spot on. I think we kid ourselves if we think we'll achieve anything more. This mangy butterfly has been flapping his wings frantically in that PC forest for years, hoping for critical mass... to no avail. My wings are tired.

So don't YOU start flapping as well. Conserve that energy.

Great thanks so much to both of you! Dog you hit the nail on the head with what I was thinking I just needed you & Kathie to confirm it for me! My wings are tucked in & onward I go! I think yesterday I read too many articles/web sites about what I "should" do! After a nights sleep & the responses from you both I am back to feelin informed & making choices based on lots of things & feeling good about that!