Basic question about India
 

What would be an average per diem per person for travel in India excluding international airfare? Assume nice but probably not 5 star hotels, most time efficient and convenient transport within India, no tours.

We're thinking 14 days or so, not sure when yet, maybe August, maybe Christmas time, 2006.

I know...no positive answer is possible...but a ballpark figure would be very helpful.

Your three major costs are hotels, car/driver and meals. If you go at Christmas (which will be far more comfortable weather-wise) figure on $200/nt for non-5* hotel, $60/day for driver/minivan and $20-$30pp (a guess) for meals.

By the way, I loved your trip report.

Craig,I don't know which India you're talking about,but I think your hotel figures are waaaay off.You can stay in a decent hotel in most places for $50 or much less.Certainly much less in smaller cities and villages,which are the interesting places in my book.

MD - I think if you read some of Kim's other posts you will see that she probably isn't looking to stay in a $50/nt hotel in India. On her last trip, for example she stayed at the Conrad in Bangkok, a pretty nice hotel on all accounts. Secondly, although I appreciate that the smaller cities and villages may be more interesting and may have less expensive lodging, Kim is only going to spend 14 days in India. I believe it will be her first time so most likely she is going to do the Delhi - Agra - Jaipur route with one or two additional destinations. If she winds up going in the summer then she may choose to go elsewhere in India - perhaps you can shed some light on that. Lastly, the "I don't know which India you are talking about" comment shows kind of a wise-ass attitude on your part and a lack of appreciation for the diversity amongst the travelers on this forum.

kim, i'm working on a 14 day trip for next november...that is high season...top end hotels (or should i say western comfort level) are in tight supply and there is often overbooking these days...i am finding the prices to be $140-200 per night for rung two hotels, i.e. sheratons in agra and jaipur and the intercontinental in delhi....this is using travel agents in delhi, who get a break on the rooms...top tier hotels often run in the $300 plus category....

i have made contact with a couple of delhi agents and am evaluating each of the programs they suggest...while some do india on their own it has been suggested that for a first visit we might want planning and on site assistance, including a car and driver....its getting the details done and the arrangements made that you need assistance for according to all reports....just buying a train ticket or retrieving your luggage can be a hastle ---at least this is what is reported....india does not yet have the smooth efficient tourist industry infastructure that thailand has developed...

many agents have been suggested here...i am finding great differences in not only prices, but approach that each takes... they all seem to want your india experience to be fabulous...their services come very reasonably....each is willing to fully detail expenses, costs and profits...nothing seems hidden...

hope this helps...

i too loved the report

bob

Thanks,Dad,for the patronizing lecture.
My point was that there are many options for far less than $200 a night,and I'm not talking about dumps.

MD - Why the attitude???? My point was that you really didn't recognize what the OP was asking for. By the way, I was looking for your India trip report - did you ever post one?

Thank you. We don't even have a rough itinerary yet...it would be our first trip to India. It seems like there is quite a range of price and level of comfort. I'm just trying to get an idea of how much we'd realistically need to spend to be comfortable. We spent about $6000.00 total for our trip to Thailand this year...17 days in Thailand and 1 day on each side in Nagoya. This was the upper side of our budget. We had 4 free hotel nights with points.

Kim-
Last August, I spent $129 a night at the Imperial hotel in Delhi with (huge) breakfast included.

Big buffet lunch in the 5* hotel was about $13 each. Nice lunch outside the hotel about $3 each. Dinner about $10-15 in a nice, non hotel spots. Quite a bit more in the hotel restaurants or room service.

The rest of our trip cost $1120 total for guides, car and drivers, Delhi to Agra train, all tolls, AND all these hotels:

Agra-1 night at Amarvillas: $300

Jaipur-2 nights at Samode Haveli Heritage hotel $115/night including breakfast
Delhi- 1 night (midnight to 6 am!)at Metro heights $30?
We paid only for lunch, dinner, shopping and monument entry fees.

Christmas is about two to three times as expensive at the hotels. Imperial at $259, Udaivilas at $375.
Flights between cities were $115-$150 for me. 30% discount for under 25 yrs old.

Trains are very nice and comfortable and often ridiculously inexpensive- $15 2nd AC car Delhi to Agra ( 2-3 hours). For an ovwernight 1st class sleeper Udaipur to Swai modhopur (8 hours) and then 2nd AC car Sawai to Delhi (about 5 hours)was $90 total for the two of us.

The weather was hot in August, but I didn't find it unbearable. Actually it was just about equal to Thailand in Dec 04, or the one time I went to japan in July. Because we had a driver, we were mostly in AC.

Many of the monuments were pleasant due to their construction, especially since my driver gave me an umbrella.
Several people told us that August was cooler than earlier in the summer, since the monsoon had already passed.

I am not a pool person normally, but found the pools at all our hotels just heavenly- all had wonderful "alladin in paradise" layouts, service and the water was really refreshing at that time of year.

In December the water and weather were really not condusive to sitting by the pool. My daughter did at the Udaivilas, but did more reading than swimming. She liked the decadant atmosphere and frou-frou drinks!

It was warm enough in when the sun was out, but we found it very cold in the shade and at night. Wore our mittens, down jackets and wool hats and scarves much of the time!

Hi Kim. We're returning to India for our third trip, in Mar 2006. We've found many good hotels in the US40-60 range. If you want clean, central hotels with air cond, cable, restaurant etc. you can find them under US100 everywhere. Just depends if you know where to look. I've just been offered a 10% discount in Kolkata simply by asking for it. It's a 3 star place in the central business district for 1400 rupees inc tax. US35. It's air cond, has cable, a fine restaurant and it's a bargain. If I'd wanted to stay at the Fairlawn and pay for the run-down "Raj atmosphere", I could have!

Our travel budget is around US100 per day for the two of us. Sometimes blows out to $US200 if we stay at a Palace hotel. Trains AC Chair class are around US20 per person to travel 600 kms. If you want to spend a fortune, you can, however the magic family run hotels all over India give great value. I can give you some names if you wish.

Also buy a Footprint guidebook. They give great insights into India! Have a great time planning your trip. BTW we stay at the Westin in Bangkok & the Pan Pacific & Raffles Plaza in Singapore but always find great value hotels in India sometimes by simply asking on websites like www.indiamike.com which is a marvellous trip resource!

Yes,I love Indiamike! It's a great resource. I'd also be glad to give you the names of hotels I have used,if you give us your itinerary.

Kim, did the $6000 include air fare for 3?

Kim,
We visited India last year and had a three weeks visiting Rajasthan followed by a week with friends in Delhi.

In our experience India is a great destination with some very nice heritage properties that offer an interesting cultural experience and wonderful accomodation at great rates.

As you probably know it will be very hot in August and at Christmas you'll need to book in advance to get into some of the nicest places.

If you search you'll find my trip report with details and web links on all of the places we visited.

The following will give you a rough idea of costs...

We hired a car and driver and paid about $40 per day. We were very happy with an Ambassador which is a wondefully anachronistic Indian car, very comfortable for two in the back and well designed in terms of suspension. Personally I felt it was an advantage not to have a faster vehicle! It would certainly be more to rent a foriegn vehicle or an SUV.

I don't remember the price of meals but I think that's because they were very cheap. One of the advantages of some of the heritage propoerties was some fabulous homestyle meals which were VERY reasonable.

The places we stayed in varied between an eco resort at $25 per night, Heritage hotels from $30-100 and Devigarh at $350 plus per night. For the most we spent around $75 per night on accomodation.

I think some of the tensions in the posts above arise from the fact that there seems to be a presumption that people only stay in one type of property and this is a reflection of what they can or cannot afford.

Just to give you an idea we stay in a very wide variety of properties...I like luxury too and we've just returned from a week in Ladera in St Lucia. I've stayed in lots of the luxury end chains (Banyan, 4 Seasons, Ritz etc) and gone on vaious safaris but in India we really enjoyed the local properties which offered a wonderful personal exerience.

Devigarh was interesting, a modern (design hotel type place) restoration of a fort outside Udaipur and though it was by far the most expensive it wasn't the one we most remember. In fact the porperty we really loved was one of the cheapest. It was great because we met the family and they took us out on a trip around a local village.

I highly recommend one of the travel agents we used. I have his web address handy because he just sent us a Christmas card! It was so nice to get mail from India! Ramesh is extreemly pleasant, reliable and very knowledgable I really recommend his service.
www.rajasthantravelbycab.com


Hope this helps!

Wow...all of these replies are really helpful. Thank you all so much.

Craig...the $6000 figure does not include airfare...we flew free, 3 tickets "bought" with miles. The $6000 does include flights within Thailand though, as well as trains in Japan...$500.00! 19 nights away from home total, about $300.00 per day. The very top of our budget...the absolute max. Lots of "extras" though...private cooking class, private bicycle tour to Ko Kred near Bangkok, John Gray sea canoe trip, elephant camp for 3 days, almost daily spa treatments for me, and nice hotels. The Conrad was actually the cheapest, at $145.00/night nett including an extra bed and breakfast (paid bfast separately for Teaghan's bfast, we got 2 free bfasts for Hilton Honors status).

I haven't read through all the responses (in a rush, as I'm leaving for Thailand/Cambodia in the AM), but for two people last year, just before Christmas, we spent about $6000 total -including airfare and shopping without really worrying about a budget.

Bought our airfare early ~$1000 each. Splurged on certain hotels in certain areas - I highly recommend splurging on the Amarvilas in Agra. $320 a night through AmEx travel services (TOTALLY worth it). In Jaipur, stayed at a beautiful palace that was the side home for royalty back in the day - ~$70 a night. In Delhi, roughed it at $30 a night since it was just a transition. Had a driver through Rajasthan - cost

sorry - got cut off. $90 for 3 days driving -Delhi, Agra, Jaipur. Then flew to Bombay. Stayed at Gordon House (boutiquey hotel) for 90/night. Then Goa for a few days at $70/night - Laguna Anjuna. Had to go to a wedding in Goa, which cost ~150/night. Then our last 2 nights (which we had planned on being at the wedding venue, but didn't love it), moved to Taj Exotica for a little more than $200/night.

Again, was very happy to splurge on the Amarvilas, and the last nights in India.

Btw, this included our domestic flights, meals, nights out etc... Though we were completely treated with food, drinks, parties during the few days of the wedding.

Also, Christmas time I think would be much better, though a little more expensive. In the North, it's perfect weather and not smoldering. Warm and sunny during the day - but not too too hot so you get killed while sightseeing/shopping. And nights were cool and crisp.

Even thinking about our trip to India brings warm feelings...

kim...the prices i have been quoted for 14 days including 3 days in kathmandu and visiting agra, delhi, and jaipur only, range from $1299 to 2099. per person for hotels, transportation (private suv size car), driver and his expenses, entrance fees, local guides in some sites, airport meet and greets and transfers....only food is extra and airfares (to delhi and to kathmandu).....and oh yes shopping...

this is totally private touring with the car and driver at our disposal at all times...

the hotels are second level: intercontinental in delhi, sheratons in agra and jaipur and hyatt in kathmandu....i choose the hotels....i may add the imperial as i am receiving lots of pressure from friends to do this...

All very helpful! The specifics are great and appreciated. This trip we've got a good amount of planning time, so I want to be sure I explore all of the options before deciding, as well as be sure I have enough budgeted to cover my choices, as I seem to be hopelessly drawn to the more expensive things, be it hotels or dining room tables :)

Patricia, magnificant report - brings back clear memories of our trip. Looking forward to hearing about Jodhpur and the rest.

Whoops - posted in the wrong place.

KML -- can you tell us the name of your hotel in Jaipur?

Hi Bob, "this is totally private touring with the car and driver at our disposal at all times..."

I think you'll find this translates to 8am to 6pm as most drivers (and passengers) don't want to drive in the dark! And it's sometimes hard to get the drivers & passengers up & at 'em before 9am, in our experience.

Have fun!

We had a car and driver "at our disposal at all times" through Compass, one of the companies Bob is looking at. That meant just what it says - the driver was available for dinner, before and after, sometimes as late as 10 PM. If we got off to an early start, i.e. 8 AM, he was available for that too. We were flexible though in that we gave him time off at one point when we didn't really need him to go visit with his family.

Good for you Craig.

I would not expect anyone to drive me around at 10 pm. Unless it was an emergency. Must be because I'm so cheap!
Have a nice evening.

lyndie---i had thought of getting an australian driver, so dark is the same as light....they are usually 'under the weather' so i thought they would "fly" through the traffic and that we would travel mostly at nite when the animals are asleep and the trucks could see us coming...

good idea??

Yeh Bob - but watch out with the Aussie driver at night - he will be dodging the roos all the night long!!!!

Bob, did you have razor blades for dinner! You're as sharp as sharp tonight.

I'd come over & drive you myself but I'm already booked up! Bahrain Grand Prix! Go to bed. Old people need their sleep!

One thing the drivers hate to do is take you to the south Delhi or the airport after 7:30pm. Twice we had midnight flights, they wanted us to leave Delhi at 7:30pm.

WE found out it is because trucks are allowed into the city starting at 9pm and no one wants to have to share the road with them.

We actually left later, and could see exactly when the trucks started arriving. There was a huge bottleneck (luckily on the opposite side of the road from us) as they had all lined up along the side of the road till they could start in!

lcuy-I guess most people could understand a driver wanting to have "down time" especially in the evening.

We had a most charmingly hopeless driver who was very inexperienced in driving passengers around. He was a nice guy and he avoided all but one truck which ran us off the side of the road and into the dirt, so naturally I wanted him to get as much sleep as he needed so we did not die on our first trip to India. And he got lost so often I thought sleep might assist him in finding our destinations! Poor tired Bhanwar!

I think it's all about common sense. I'm just so full of it!

If the guy has driven you around all day, then how can he be expected to be alert and on call at night? I know how I feel after two or three hours on the excellent Aussie freeways, let alone six hours on the Delhi/jaipur highway!

OMG!

Arent' we lucky to be alive to tell the tales???

I think I had better explain the realities of having a driver on call so that Fodors readers don't jump to the wrong conclusions. Of 11 nights on the ground in India, we ate outside of our hotel just 3 times - twice in Delhi and once in Jaipur. We were fortunate in that we stayed in hotels with excellent restaurants and made use of them. You can debate all day long on whether that was experiencing the "real India" or not but we were happy doing what we did. Also, 2 of the nights were at Sher Bagh (Ranthambore Park) where all meals are included and on another night we had had a snack we had brought with us for the train ride from Sawai Modhpur to Delhi so we didn't eat dinner. None of the 3 nights that we ate out followed one of those long harrowing drives (Agra - Jaipur, etc.). Quite honestly, those long drives took their toll on us as much as on our very competent driver. Anyway you have to appreciate the total concentration it takes to drive in India and the importance of letting the driver take a break every 2 or 3 hours.

All that being said, the driver's job is what it is. Going out to a restaurant at night usually does not entail a long drive and there is obviously a long break for him between dropping off and picking up. It was kind of a revelation for us that while we stayed at Sher Bagh our driver slept in his car rather than paying to stay over night somewhere else. I don't know where he stayed on our other stops.

Just thought of one more thing -
If you need your driver to take you to dinner, you arrange it ahead of time. He is not literally "on call" at all hours of the day and night.

We just got back from India. On the recommendation of Craig and others, we arranged a car/driver through Compass as well. In theory, the driver would have been happy to take us out in the evenings, but we never asked him to -- given the intense concentration required on the long drives during the day, we thought he deserved down-time and relaxation in the evenings. This served us well too -- he was a superb driver and always completely well-rested and alert for the drives.

We typically let the driver go off no later than 4:30 or 5:00 pm. If you want to go out in the evening, the hotel can arrange a taxi or tuk-tuk at a nominal expense (but, as Craig said, after long days of exploring we ate in the hotel far more often than we would have imagined we would).

In terms of pricing, it seems that India has gotten much more expensive (at least at the upper end) in the last year. A friend in the travel business confirms this. For the 12 days that we used car/driver and 8 days of guides, we were charged about $1100. Since guides are only $20/day (total of $160), the bulk of the charge was for the car/driver. As we learned, however, price depends on the distances -- it is not a flat per/day charge. Tipping, of course, is additional but an important expense.

In our 5 visits to India, from 1978 thru last yr. we have, despite the exchange always paid around $12.00 per day for a cab. Bear in mind its my in-laws doing the deal and for us but I think you could something closer to that figure than $60.00.
As for hotels as we have relatives there we seldom use them. However to give you an idea we stayed one night at the Taj View, a 3* or 4* hotel, and paid about $80.00. The nightly rate at the Mansingh Palace(again 3-4*) in Ajmer, or course a less traveled spot, was around $100.00.
Dinner at the Sheraton in Agra came to about $12.00 pp as I recall. Lunch at the Trident Hilton in Delhi was a bit less, depending on what you get. Breakfast at the Taj View was quite reasonable as I recall. Normally sticker shock and India don't go together though I think generally speaking it is becoming more expensive. The exchange rate now it a bit better than last yr. when we were there.

Craig, reputable companies don't condone the practice of drivers sleeping in cars. Did you tell Compass about the driver sleeping in the car?

I'd be very worried about companies who allow or tolerate the practice.

We always ensured our driver had a bed for the night, going so far as to ask him to show us where he was sleeping.

I'd been forwarned about the practice of car-sleeping and I've been told of the hazards.

Bhanwar (our driver) was given money along the way so he had food, a mobile sim card & a bed! We bought him biscuits and tea and he often left the car in the car park of our hotel.

We were assured by the hirer of the car that all our chosen accommodation either provided our driver with a bed or the driver knew somewhere closeby & comfortable to stay. That's part of the US40-US60 per day charge.

I think it's a real safety issue for consumers to ensure their drivers are alert & sober when they are driving us. Not nodding off because they slept in the car! Frightens the hell out of me!

I'm a Super Fast train fan. Give me a Rajdhani or Shatabdi any day. The roads are dangerous!

Oh, and someone posted re the issue of tipping. One does not need to go overboard on this. I read on www.indiamike.com that the recommended amount is US5 per day. This rec is by an Indian businesswoman in Jaipur. I choose to believe that's only for people who tip as part of their culture. Because it's not part of the Indian culture.

Actually, Lyndie I don't care where the driver sleeps. It is not my concern. Perhaps feeding his family is more important than a comfortable nights sleep to him. Our driver was alert, competent, never got lost, did have any near misses and did not get us into any situations where we were run off the road as yours did. The drivers are subcontractors that work for a firm that provides these services to travel agencies. It is not my responsibility to feed him or see to it that he has proper lodging. As long as he shows up when we ask him to and gets us from place to place safely, I am satisfied. Because he accomplished all of this and more, we tipped him generously at the end of the trip. Train rides can save time but come at the expense of not being able to observe and enjoy the scenic small towns and rural life between destinations.

I did not expect you to care, Craig.

I'll let you have the last word, Lyndie.

OK! Thanks, Craig.

I think the only way to assure safety on Indian roads is to stay off. :S-. Also Lyndie, as you well know of course, what passes for normal in other places goes out the window in India. You can't have the same expectations there or you'll be frustrated beyond help. :-) JM2C.

This is all very interesting to me...

I'm left wondering what real difference it makes where your driver sleeps. I've had horrible sleep both at home in my own comfy bed as well as while travelling, and on occasion I've had very restful sleep on airplanes. Go figure.

I wonder if the driver is given an allowance to spend on accommodation? If so, who cares if he chooses to keep the money to use for his family and sleeps in the car? It's his choice, not mine. If he gets complimentary accommodation, then he'd likely use it.

I wonder if security might be another issue...perhaps sleeping in the car is a kind of security to prevent break ins and vandalism? This is just a thought...not having been to India yet, and just beginning to research, I have no idea if this sort of thing is even a concern.

In the end, if you hire someone as a driver, and he drives, that seems like that is all you should be concerned with. If you choose to provide a paid room for your driver and he is willing to accept it, then fine, but if he chooses to sleep in the car, for whatever reason, then I wouldn't fret over it.