2.5 days to spare in No. Thailand...HELP!
 

We are traveling to Thailand end of March-beginning of April. We will be in Phuket (at timeshare) from March 24-30. We need to be back in Singapore to catch our flight back to LAX on April 5th in the early evening.

Interests:
Since we will be doing the "beach resort" thing in Phuket, we are thinking that a trip to Northern Thailand would be right up our ally to mix things up.
§ We would love to do a very interactive elephant experience (we have done Siam Safari in Phuket and Ko Lak already--but the rest of the group has not)
§ See and possibly interact “real” hillside tribes
§ Volunteer for a service project (time limited though)
§ See country-side possibly by bike tour (we did the ABC bike tour in BKK and liked the uniqueness of it)
Group Info:
§ 7 adults and two children (ages 4 and 6)
§ Enjoy adventure, but like luxury as well.
§ The kids are pretty easy going, but have not traveled internationally ever.
§ My husband and I have been to Thailand two other times before this trip and LOVE it.


We love BKK, but will have to cut time short there. We are going to dedicate two full days there. So that leaves us with 2.5 days in No.Thailand. What could be done in that span of time?

Thank You!!

Tracy

tracy---quite honestly i would stay in bkk for the two days....do some things for the kids....visit the zoo....go to the floating market....have tong take you to see the monkeys...

by the time you move to another place you will eat the whole time up with travel....

stay at the marriott resort so the kids can enjoy the pool and just make some side trips....imo...

So you have March 31 - April 4? Already booked in BKK or not...can you change it?

Sounds to me like the Anantara Golden Triangle would meet every need and offer something for everyone.

* Very interactive elephant experience? Absolutely, from just meeting them and feeding them, to rides, to a whole 3 day or longer mahout program.

* Real hilltribes...yes, many in the area.

* Volunteer project? The Anantara offers tree planting. I'm sure you could also arrange to offer something else...English to mahouts and family, hill tribe school visit. Or, in Chiang Mai, a visit to the School for Life - or you could go to the one in Khao Lak when you are in Phuket. www.joyshouse.net

* See countryside by bike tour...easy enough to arrange. http://www.chiangmai-chiangrai.com/b...ang_rai_1.html
http://www.chiangmai-chiangrai.com/b...ang_rai_2.html

* 7 adults, 2 kids - no problem. Pool for everyone, spa for the grown ups, cooking classes if you like.

* Anantara is a little luxury in a country setting.

If you think you'd be interested in finding out what you might be able to do in the area, then rather than trying to deal with the Anantara's reservations staff whose English is OK but not great and whose specialty is reservations, not planning...anyway, contact John Roberts. He is the elephant guy there, and knows the area well and helped us a lot in making our decision to go there in August. jroberts at minornet dot com or directly from the "attractions" section of the website www.anantara.com

I wouldn't go up there for 2 days, but I would for 4 or 5. We will fly up there from Phuket...4 hours with a connection in Bangkok on Thai Air, departing Phuket at 7:55 AM and arriving in Chiang Rai before noon, then it's an hour to the Anantara.

Both of your comments make complete sense...which makes my decision even harder! :)) What if we left Phuket the morning of the 30th so we got to Chiang Rai the late afternoon/evening. Then:

March 30: leave Phuket and fly direct to Chiang Rai
March 31 Anantara
April 1: Anantara
April 2: Anantara (fly back to BKK in the evening)
April 3: BKK
April 4: BKK
April 5: fly to SIN in the late morning.

I am anxious to do...or get a taste of Chiang Mai/Rai since we have done BKK twice before. However, there are certain things that i would die to miss in BKK (i.e. The Peninsula and Face Bar dinner/massages)

Am I crazy to try and do that schedule...? I guess I am pushing to get to both places so that the people in our group who have never been to Thailand will get a well rounded experince (beautiful beaches, exciting city, and authentic Thai culture and countryside). I want them to love it just like I do...:)

What do you think?

KimJapan--you mentioned the Joy's House in Khao Luk. I looked for a link to it and couldn't find it. Maybe we could do the service part there.

This is way off the wall...but could we get more bang from our limited time if we flew from BKK to Cambodia and did Ankor Wat instead of trying to gt to Chiang Mai/Rai this trip? Is that a place to take young kids?

I think Cambodia would be a difficult thing with young kids. It's hot and there is a lot walking and climbing and at that age the temples will not mean much to them.
When I read your initial post, I immediately thought of Anantara, because my daughter and her girlfriend (they were age 12 at the time) had an absolute ball in the mahout program there. But I am not sure that kids as young as 4 and 6 would be able to do it. Maybe with one of the staff on the elephant with them. This elephant riding is "bareback," sitting directly on the elephant's head and kicking behind his ears to direct him. I don't know if they have some kind of safety harness to keep a small kid from falling off. Of course they could still go into the elephant enclosure and feed them, watch them bathe, etc. Anantara also has a beautiful pool and a Mandara spa.

OK...

You can't fly non-stop from Phuket to Chiang Rai. You have to transfer in Bangkok. We are doing it on Thai Air as their schedule is best AND we don't end up having to buy a new ticket BKK - CEI if we misconnect using one of the discount airlines.

Joy's House is not in Khao Lak, but there is School for Life there...same organization. http://www.beluga-schoolforlife.de/ is the main website of the place, though only in German. The video on http://www.school-for-life.de/ shows the Khao Lak project even though it is the Chiang Mai page. Joy's House is the place where it all started. Here's the link for Joy's House too in Chiang Mai www.joyshouse.net

You could do the schedule you have outlined for the Anantara and BKK quite easily. By departing Phuket at 7:55 you will be at the Anantara for lunch if you use Thai Air. They offer an airpass that's $159 + tax for 3 legs, which you would have...HKT - BKK - CEI - BKK. It would give you a break on the cost. The kids are 1/2 price but same tax. Go figure.

We're taking our 9 year old to Siem Reap for 6 nights in August. In all honesty, I don't think there is much there to interest younger kids...the temples are amazing, as will be the hotel pool...but I think they'd enjoy the elephants at the Anantara much more...and a boat ride on the Mekong, walking around the village a bit maybe. We're lucky to be doing Siem Reap and the Anantara...and although our daughter is really involved in the planning and selection process of our trips, Angkor Watt is interesting to her as is visiting a village and going to the lake there, she says it is the part of the trip she is looking forward to least. The Anantara is her #1 thing.

Cambodia is worth considering. One day at Angkor Complex might not be too much for the kids. I feel like others that the sooner you get to see this place the better. Every year it becomes more touristy.
Then another day visiting The Mighty Tonle Sap Lake. Floating houses, shops, schools and even crocodlie farms.
Yes, Cambodia could be a very good option.

Where will you be staying in Phuket...I'm just curious. I know that the Marriott has a timeshare, and my daughter has expressed interest in their KidzSole program (circus training for kids)...so if you were by chance going there maybe you could report back on their kids stuff?

Kim-We will be at the Marriott. We purchased our timeshare back in 2005. This will be our first time taking kid #1. She saw our picutres from the Marriott on our last two trips, saw the slide in the pool and said, "Mom, this is my favorite place. I want to go there." She and her cousin (6 years) will do the kids activities there. I didn't know there was a circus training program....that sounds really fun! I will for sure report back on that. We are so excited to show our our favorite place.

Kim-

I did a bit more research on Anantara and guides in the area.
Questions for you:
1. Reviews said that the pool at the hotel is cold? Is that true? Not that it makes a huge difference b/c we won't spend much, if any, time doing that. But would like to know for info for our group.

2. You mentioned to talk to the Elephant guy. The reviews mentioned that the concierge does not speak a whole lot of English. What can John Roberts help us with specifically?

3. did you use a guide for trips from the hotel?

4. How do you get from the airport in Chiang Rai to the hotel? We will have a large group, do you think we can get a discount?

5. How big are the standard rooms? Could you put two adults and one child in and not feel to scrunched?

Also...the Thai discover Asia pass---does the layover in BKK in route to Chiang Rai count as one of my three legs?

THANK YOU!!!

Hi Travelmom,

Spent 4 days in December at the Anantara with our two boys, 13 and 16. It lives up to the hype - the perfect combo of luxury, adventure and culture. Have been procrastinating about our trip report, which would have been useful to you- Sorry. In the meantime, some answers to your questions:

1) Yes, the pool was freezing (and the jacuzzi was not warm either.) Might be better in March.

2) For setting up elephant activities, the mahout John Roberts is more knowledgeable and more accessible by email than the concierge. But we had even better luck communicating directly with the General Manager of the hotel, Mark Heather, [email protected] (He has only been there a few months and goes out of his way to get to know the guests.) We set up all of our activities through Mark - elephants, cooking school and touring Burmese villages with a guide. Mark will also forward specific elephant queries to John Roberts.

3. Used Doi as our guide and her husband as a driver. Doi is a "find" - the Tong of the Golden Triangle. She's smart, funny and completely gets the nuances of showing travelers around.

4. We booked the Anantara van to meet us in CR, take us to the night market there and then on to the GT area. Tried to bargain, no discounts available. But your group of 7 will be probably pay the same price as we paid for 4.

5. The standard rooms are not huge but should be fine for two adults and a smaller child. (We stayed in a suite - gorgeous and twice the size of the standard rooms, plenty of room for 2 adults and 2 large kids.) If you book through Small Luxury Hotels of the World www.slh.com you can get an upgrade if available. Ask for a room on an upper floor in the same building as the spa - these are closer to the lobby and also much sunnier than the rooms I saw on the Laos side of the pool.

4 - Didn't use the Thai Discover pass because we were coming from Siem Reap. Instead flew BKK-CR on 1-2-Go, a discount airline, because we wanted to get there in time to spend a few hours at the night market. Tickets are 1750B ($50) one way to all destinations. Flight was delayed 45 minutes, but otherwise fine. Flew Thai back to BKK, on time, but twice the price.

Hi travelmom13,
My boyfriend and i just came back from thailand and had the most rewarding experience of our lives when we went to chiang mai. Please consider this option that Im about to tell you because it really is life changing and educational and fun for adults and children and quite different from all the tours u will encounter.
There is an elephant santuary 1 hr away from the city of chiang mai. This place is for a rehabilitation for abused elephants from trekking and logging. It might sound a little graphic but it really is not. You get to be in close proximity by feeding and bathing them and hearing each one of thier stories. It is run by an aussie so english is not a problem. I dont wanna blow the surprise for you so here is the website elephantnaturepark.org or elephantnaturefoundation.org.
I hope u consider this option. If u have any other questions please ask. They pick u up from your hotel and drop you off in a nice air conditoned van and provide a delicious westernized thai lunch during your stay. If you're worried about the comfort and luxury extent of this place, i want to assure you that its okay considering my boyfriend is on the high mainetance side and only stays in luxurious hotels w 24 hr room service. I would tell u more but the website is pretty self explanatory. I learned about this place through a National Geographic program i watched on the place at thai airways on the way there from NY.
Goodluck

Crosscheck gave you some excellent answers. We haven't actually been yet!

I would bet any pool would be freezing in the winter months. When we were in Thailand in December/January 2 seperate times, we found the pools at the Peninsula, Conrad BKK, Yaang Come Village in Chiang Mai...to be freezing...the Conrad's was the worst to me. I would hope as the weather gets warmer the pools get warmer.

I've communicated with John Roberts a lot...he straightened out my reservation when the reservations staff couldn't understand or help me...I e-mailed him and the managaer, Mark Heather. He replied, Mark Heather never did reply. When we are closer to our stay (which is in August) I will arrange a couple of things for us to do in addition to the 3 day mahout training.

Posted too soon.

The airpass...each flight is one leg, so Phuket to Bangkok to Chiang Rai is two legs, and the return to BKK is the third.

If you are looking for a place to stay in chiang mai, I recommend The Chedi, it is near the river and walking distance to the night bazzare market and a tuk tuk ride away from the wats of the city. The hotel is beautiful, compairable to the boutique hotels in NYC where we are from with the same standard for service. Im not sure what your budget is but this place is worth every penny.

Lety me chime in and endorse the Anantara at the Golden Triangle. It's a lovely resort, and there is lots to do. We were there in November, and the pool was not cold. Indeed, the nights weren't even chilly.

I'm not a fan of Chaing Mai - huge city, lots of particulates in the air, no public transportation, etc. If you want something other than a large city, opt for the Anantara at the Golden Triangle.

The Elephant Nature Park is another option. It is a very different type of place in that it is a refuge for abused/injured elephants. It does not offer rides or mahout training, but you can stay the night there and bathe and care for the elephants.

While I think it is a great place for what it is, I have also heard many people coming away from the place with the attitude that it is the ONLY place to go and EVERY other place you might consider abuses the elephants.

This is simply not the case. Places like the Thai Elephant Conservation Center in Lampang also have a refuge area in addition to their working elephants, who are happy and healthy working giving tourists rides or doing the mahout training program. The Anantara Golden Triangle and the Four Seasons Tented Camp work closely with the TECC and also do rescue operations. There are a number of other places, too, which offer refuge.

Not all places that offer rides are bad...in fact, many are good, but yes, some are not. Fortunately for tourists, it is dead easy to see that an elephant and mahout are unhappy and/or unhealthy, so you can choose not to spend money in those places or even to take some action by bringiing the poor condition of the elephants/mahouts to the attention of the TECC or similar organization. There is a network of groups that do everything they can to help out the sad cases, even going so far as to buying the elephant.

It is unrealistic to think that Thai elephants can all live in a refuge type place and not work. Since logging became illegal, many elephants formerly used for logging became unemployed, which means their mahout also became unemployed. Lucky ones end up someplace like the TECC, Anantara, Four Seasons Tented Camp. Somewhat lucky ones end up giving rides from smaller camps with not so ideal conditions. Unlucky ones end up begging on the city streets, continuously on the move, as if they are caught, they get arrested. Other unlucky ones end up doing illegal logging.

In any case, it has to be kept in mind that the elephants and mahouts and mahout families need to have some way to feed themselves. A refuge for each an every one of them is unrealistic. Where would the land come from? The money to support the mahouts? Housing? These elephants cannot be simply let loose in the wild...they are domesticated, and would die in the wild, or if they have tusks, would be quickly killed by poachers (the TECC has to keep tusked elephants in the village due to this risk, as I'm sure other places do as well).

The BEST place to go for your elephant experience is the one that suits you best. There is nothing wrong with riding elephants IF they are cared for well...and believe me, you will be able to tell. The ENP is certainly a good place to support, but is not the only one.

A good reference with lots of further references linked inside is John Roberts' website for the Anantara. www.helpingelephants.org

Thanks, KimJapan for what feels like a well-balanced explanation of the elephant situation. It's something I'm struggling with for our upcoming trip, and this perspective helps.

<font color="green">Cyn</font>

Kim- My husband and I read your post about your daughter's experience with the elephants and getting sick. Did that happen in CM or at Anantara? I feel like your daughter with my love of animals and REALLY enjoy close interactions...but would it work my daughter (4)? Will she be able to ride the elephants? Maybe wih me on with her?

Also, someone mentioned on one of these posts, believe it was Bob...about renting a car. Is it cost effective to rent with a large group or just get a taxi at the CR airport?

Thanks,
Tracy

We were at the TECC in Lampang last year, and we are not even certain that Teaghan got sick from the swimming/bathing place there...but we suspect so because I was not at all sick and did not go near the water, and my husband was slightly sick and was in the water, and T was hospital sick and was most definitely head under in the water. We ate the same foods.

I don't think just being around elephants, or any animals, is especially risky enough in terms of what sickness you might catch...but that is my own perception of that risk...yours might be different. There is always a risk involved in being around animals...but I grew up riding horses so that risk to me is quite normal (but note the riding horses doesn't mean you can ride elephants, as I learned very quickly!)

We picked the Anantara this time around quite accidentally. Teaghan had been asking to go back to elephant camp, and I said yes before I checked the price. Being sick didn't turn her off...she even said she'd get sick again and not complain if she could go back. It turned out to have doubled in price from last year, so it would cost us 16,000 baht for the two of us for 2 nights. The Anantara offers a 4 night package with 3 days of mahout training for $980.00, double the price of elephant camp, but double the number of nights, and the Anantara comes with a pool, spa, air conditioning, beds with real mattresses, and a new area for us to explore. So, we booked 5 nights there.

The information I got from them says that in the case of young children, the mahout will ride the elephant with the child. They also told me that Teaghan and I could share an elephant and we would pay for only one person rather than two...but Teaghan wanted no part of that deal, so we have booked two. John also told me that the experience is quite easily modified to individual preferences...T wanted to be sure that they knew she already knew a bit and wasn't scared and wanted to learn more stuff, and he assured me the experience for her could be as intensive as she wanted it to be, and for me, much more mellow.

Teaghan first rode an elephant when she was 3...not alone, but right on up there, with no fear.

Write to John Roberts and ask him about how your 4 year old would be accommodated. Then you'll have a sure answer.

The Anantara's transfer prices are very expensive I think, but I haven't gotten around to searching out options. I might just be lazy and use their car.

Great info!! I will email John and see what he thinks. We may have to modify a little (I want the full day and my husband and daughter will probably want 1/2 day).

So...if we fly in and get to Anantara the evening of March 30th..our itinerary would be:
March 31- Elephants and enjoy hotel
April 1- Tour (hillside tribes, river, opium hall)

My husband really wants to fly out the evening of April 1st so we can get to BKK and be ready for a full day April 2.
What do I need to see in Golden Triangle besides tribes/villages, river tour, opium hall?

Nevermind...convinced him to leave April from CR to BKK. :)

Sorry it's late...I convinced him to leave April 2 in the afternoon, instead of April 1st.

That will be much better...you won't be rushed so you can enjoy your time there and relax.

one of the best things we did was to visit the princess grandmother's former estate, doi tung, which is about a 30-40 minute ride from the anantara....could easily spend 1/2 day there...gardens/house/coffee production/shops/beautiful remote setting

Travelmom13,
You might not need to do the full-on mahout training with your older child - The elephant trek plus the bathing experience in the afternoon might be enough. The little one can ride with you in the basket. You can also hang out with the babies, watch the elephants' bathtime in the river and help collect them from the jungle in the morning, all for free.

My son slipped off his elephant (while bathing her) and fell into the Ruak River. Mahouts caught him before his head went under. After reading KimJapan's report we were concerned...but no infections, no nasty rashes. It's been a month and so far he's fine.

As far as other must-do activities, I highly recommend the cooking school. It includes a market visit to Chiang Saen, coffee with the locals, merit-making, a tour of the organic herb garden at the Anantara. (The GM told me they have since added a breakfast picnic in a park near a ruin in Chiang Saen.) Your kids can go along for the market visit and then hang out with a babysitter while you cook. Another great thing to do with the kids is donate and plant a tree near the elephant camp.

KimJapan,
Your three-day price is EXCELLENT compared to what we paid during xmas week. So you can splurge on the Anantara pick-up, which is twice what a taxi will charge you. We chose their transportation because we wanted to arrange the Chiang Rai night market stop and have someone watch our luggage while we shopped. The market was really manageable and fun and a great intro to hilltribe culture.

That's a good idea, to do something in Chiang Rai before heading out to the Anantara. We are arriving at noon, so we'll have time to go somewhere first.

Kim/Crosscheck-

I emailed John and received a response about 20 minutes after emailing. I also received information from Mark Heather and the people at the spa. Talk about service!

I asked John about the &quot;river cleanliness&quot; issue and his response was:

&quot;I hadn't heard that, we've certainly had no trouble here, there's nothing upstream much upstream on our little river - a couple of small towns and the Burma!&quot;

Also, I looked into the room upgrade through slh.com and realized that you have to sign up for the Club program on their website and then book through the club website to receive the possible upgrade.

Do either of you know how much the breakfast is at Anantara? If I book the room upgrade rate through slh.com, I can't get the cheap breakfast add on (like the $199 breezes rate).

Glad to hear that the river isn't full of Burmese sewage. Sorry, I don't know the breakfast rate - ours was included, but our rate (on a suite) was really high because it was xmas week.

I think I recall that they told me that there are only 4 suites in the hotel, so I really wouldn't count on getting an upgrade by booking with SLH...odds don't look good if there are really only 4 suites.

I thought they had told me the price of breakfast, but I checked and it just says kids under 12 are 50% discount...it's probably something around $15.00/person.

You have 3 nights? Maybe check their packages on their website. Suite Essence might suit you, or the 3 Countries Discovery....

travelmom13...did you write 3 seperate e-mails to the Anantara to get 3 responses, or did you send off only to John Roberts? Could you also share the information you got about tours/prices/activities/etc (except for elephant stuff, as I think I've got all of that)?

I found the price of breakfast on their website booking page. $16.00/person, 1/2 price for kids under 12.

Kim-

I sent off one email detailing the information I was looking for and then sent it all at once to John Roberts and Mark Heather. Then John answered me and cc'd the spa people as well. After that Mark emailed me as well. I actually responded to Mark's email with a specific room request. I cc'd the reservation people as well on that.

I can send you the info they sent me directly your email as well. They came as attachments...hard to post.

Only four suites huh...yikes. I booked the standard room at $184 in hopes that we'd get an upgrade. Maybe they will give us comp breakfast instead if upgrades aren't available??

Also--have you booked your elephant portion yet? John says that this fills up extremely fast. I would assume you have since your daughter is so into it. From the picutres I saw on the website...it looks like a BLAST!

Thank you! My e-mail is teaghanmackenzie at mac dot com. I'd appreciate it you could forward the attachments to me...but if they are .zip files I can't open them...

I booked the Mahout Discovery Package, which includes the 3 day mahout training. Though I assume that they have booked us automatically for the mahout training days, I was planning on double checking that around June to be sure everything was set....I had a terrible time making the reservation to begin with, as it seems to be quite a problem to book one adult and one child &quot;as an adult&quot; in order to include the elephant program...I had a terrible communication breakdown with the reservations staff due to miscommunication on both of our parts and due to a pricing error on their website.

Maybe ask the Anantara how many suites they have...I just remember reading it somewhere, and thinking how hard it would be to get the upgrade...and ask them if they would provide breakfast as an alternative to the upgrade or in addition to the upgrade. Otherwise, it's cheaper to book the Breezes rate where you'd get one breakfast free for each room.

Kim-

Just sent the menus and tour information. I thought i had the spa stuff, but I don't. I think I viewed it on the website.

Also, not sure if you noticed...but John gave insight on room locations:

&quot;rooms 101 - 220 are up the hill and so have better views but a harder walk, the lower numbers overlook the pool (which some folks request). Rooms 221 up are on the flatter side and my favourite as they overlook the rice paddies even though they don't have the fully extensive view. The spa's on that side too.&quot;

Just FYI

Also...checked on number of suites...

There are 90 rooms total and of the 90, there are 13 suites. The five suite thing you saw Kim was 5 suites in the Mandara Spa.

Still not a lot of &quot;upgrade-ability &quot;...but maybe. Maybe I will check with them a few days before and if they are all sold out on suites, then I can work the free breakfast angle. :)

kim, make sure you are neither up near the top of the hill or at the very bottom of the lower levels...

i would ask for a room just above the pool on the upper side from the lobby...

We started out in one of the faraway buildings near the top of the hill. Then, because our original room was freezing, we moved to the spa building, which we loved. The new suite was much brighter with sweeping Mehkong and Burma views, near the lobby but away from the noise of the pool. I think it was 331.

Will try to do our trip report in the next few days with more info. Meanwhile let me know if you have specific questions.