"use it or lose it" say the airlines...
 

By the end of next week ALL the majors will have a "use it or lose it" policy in effect. USAIR initiated their policy last week..today AA matched. THe rest of the majors will soon follow. Get ready to rock and roll.....

I assume you're referring to how non-refundable fares must be used only on the flight for which it was booked. If so, I see it as a good thing. I they can reduce the number of no-shows, then they would be less inclined to overbook.

US isn't use it or lose it. You must cancel your reservation before your flight. The significant chamges are:<BR><BR>1. You can't fly standby on the same day on an earlier flight, and most important,<BR><BR>2. Whem you call the airline to cancel your reservation, you must make another reservation immediately and pay the $100. The problem is, you've must cahcelled your reservation, you may not know your new schedule. So you can pay a series of $100 penalties until you exhaust the value of your original ticket.<BR><BR>AA has adopted the same rules, but you can fly standby on the day of your original flight for $100. Big deal.<BR><BR>I think all the airlines will adopt this restrictive new rule. The airlines think that they can get business travelers who make the most changes to buy unrestricted, expensive tickets. We'll see.

Vic,<BR><BR>You really should use spell check.

I haven't heard anything down the pike about us implementing that, but I wouldn't be surprised if we did. To be quite honest, I think it would be great. You have no idea how many calls we get on a daily basis (heck, I don't even know how many) of people wanting to change or cancel their flights. Some folks, it would seem do it more often than I change my shorts. I can see it being ok in some cases, but there are a lot of people out there who are trying to scam all the way through their trip. You know who you are. This may cut down on some of the bull and leave us free to service customers who actually need it.

How do you do a spell check?

CoRes..you are so right. I know many of my co-workers will change their flights, and not pay at the airport, as they say. I bet 90 percent DON"T get caught..10 percent do. It could be a way to cut down on that type of fraud.

COresBoy:<BR>I feel your pain! Work would be so much easier if it were not for these damned, stupid customers!<BR>Which proves to me again that the big US airlines (I mean their top management) have 3 enemies: The customer, the travel agents and their own staff.<BR>You, being staff, need to wake up and smell the coffee! One day you will get it too, that you are on the enemy list.

Andreas,<BR><BR>I just gotta love these people who do not work for my company or in the industry even who tell me how things work. We are not the enemies of management. Our management has an open door policy, unlike a lot of other airlines or businesses. If I want to talk to Gordon (he prefers we call him by his first name) I can go to his office to see him about it. It's the same all the way down the line. Maybe your company does not place any value on their employees, but mine does. Very frequently, they take input from us and implement it. There is constant communication between us and the management via LED signs, company bulletins, quarterly magazine, Gordon's personal voice mail, CEO excahnges (where they go around the system and meet with the employees) to name just a few. I had a family emergency in July where I needed time off work to resolve the issue. I was able to talk to my manager and got the time off with no problems. Didn't have to make it up either. Oh, and if we were the enemies of management, I would guess that Gordon would not be calling the employees who won the Eddie Bauer Ford Explorers for perfect attendance. I would guess that you do not feel that you have the same feeling that your company actually values you and recognizes that they would not be anywhere without you and your co-workers. For that, I feel sorry for you. BTW, we are all Gordon's co-workers. Just ask him. I'll dial for you if you want.<BR><BR>"I feel your pain! Work would be so much easier if it were not for these damned, stupid customers!" I never said that all of the customers are stupid. You seem to have assumed that is what I meant. As I said there are the customers who are only interested in scamming the airlines. I give good customer service to all of my customers. Even to those who really don't deserve it and I will d*mn anyone who says otherwise. Despite what you have heard, the customer is not always right.<BR>You seem to be a sad, frustrated person. No disrespect intended. I know that it seems fun to bash the airlines every chance you get, but it won't get you anywhere and it won't change the policies to complain on a message board. I know to those who think the new rules are a huge injustice, but hey, we are trying to run a business and desperate times call for us not to give away the store so much. There are things that we do that we don't like having to do. <BR>Good luck to you and I hope that you find some glimmer of joy in your life and in your job. And please don't post a comment like that again unless you actually know what you are talking about.<BR>Cheers!

Andreas does work in the industry, as do I. Trust me COresboy I was a Res Agent for 21 years. The attitude toward the customer and travel agents has gone downhill. We feel your pain with airline management. They do not understand the customer is the only reason they are in business.

I'll tell you one thing. If they ever pulled this garbage on me, I would seek restitution via the Truth in Lending law which says if a company fails to provide service you paid for, then on your claim the credit card company must charge the expense back to the merchant.<BR><BR>This is the direction we should all go against these imbeciles.

Pretty much as expected, this is THE hot topic right now. And why not - it potentially hits all of us in the pocket book, and is particularly repugnant to the segment of travlers who can best be described as habitual scammers. There's an old adage that says "hit dog hollers" - i.e., the one whom the shoe best fits will scream the loudest. Look for most of the moaning to emerge from the scammer segment.<BR>And while you're moaning, please don't paint with too broad a brush. I avoid American and Delta like the plague because of the consistently bad service / attitude I got over many years and miles. I will take a less convenient itinerary in order to fly Continental, because I know I can rely on efficient, responsive service.

COresBoy:<BR><BR>Thanks for your long and nice reply.<BR><BR>But-sad to say this- you are so indoctrinated by Gordon and his bull that you are not even aware of it.<BR><BR>Today you walk into his office, but you will be surprised about security at CO when you try that after you have gotten the pink slip, because they had to let you go, because they have to save the company... blahblahblah...<BR><BR>Your beloved Gordon just loves to blame everybody else outside the company for your losses, like the damned customers, who don't want to pay full fares, and - even more outrageously- these damned other airlines, who are so stupid as not to understand that all airlines must raise fares in order to make more money. That you will lose a lot of customer that way, and that the whole thing does not add up, that must be someone elses' fault also.<BR><BR>Dear Gordon has said a few weeks ago that some airlines' executives have and IQ of 40.<BR><BR>I have news for you: All major airlines' executives together (including Gordon) have an IQ of 40.<BR><BR>Just for contrast: Southwest has just lowered their full fares, and expect that will result in an additional profit of 20m/year. They know how the market works, and they make profits. Your company doesn't and Gordon whines like a colicky baby.<BR><BR>What I really resent, though, is the lies that your and other airlines dish out to the customers, and seem to get away with.<BR><BR>One example: Fine, make airline tickets nonrefunadble/nonchangeable, use-it-or-lose-it, like theater tickets, but then make them transferable and let the owner of the ticket sell that ticket to another customer.<BR><BR>You and Gordon will probably say, that that is against the law and FAA rules. Let me inform you: THAT IS A LIE.<BR><BR>The FAA wants to know who is on the plane, and you must check ID, but there is absolutely no rule that a ticket cannot be reissued in someone elses name.<BR><BR>Another thing: My seat that I bought, use-it-or-lose-it, number 11A for the Opera is GOING TO BE EMPTY, if I don't show up.<BR><BR>If you want to play the game use-it-or-lose-it then you better fly that seat empty, because I have paid for it in full, and you don't let me re-sell it to someone else. <BR><BR>To both keep my money, and you, the airline, sell the same seat to someone else, should be outlawed as being criminal.<BR><BR>The only reason why your and other airline companies have not been persecuted criminally for selling the same product to several people (unthinkable in any and all other businesses), is because your companies have contributed so many $$ to politicians, e.g. bought them off.<BR><BR>So: Please spare me your holier-than- thou attitude. Thank you.

Hooboy, Andreas, you do have some issues going on there, don't you? Was your mother frightened by an airline exec while carrying you, or what?<BR>Actually, your discussion about what happens to your seat 11A at the Opera if you don't show is not accurate. The box office sells standing room admissions, and such buyers will stand in the rear of the auditorium until enough time has passsed to assume you are a a no show, then plotz in good old 11A. Should you indeed show up late, and have a valued ticket, the other guy just goes back to standing. Fairly universal practice, actually.

FlyBoy and CoresBoy,<BR>I don't go to the opera that often, so I have not seen the the deal with the standby's. All I have seen is empty seats which I KNOW people had purchased tickets for.<BR><BR>Also, I do know that people have left at the intermission, after half the performance they had purchased, and I am not aware that any of these people have been penalized for this.<BR><BR>You know, like CO tells it's customers: You purchased 2 flights, but used only one, so now you owe us $300 more! Or- we'll take your frequent flyer miles away. Or-we send your travel agent a bill!<BR><BR>This is what our dear CoresBoy thinks are customer friendly policies. Good luck to you.<BR><BR>PS. I told the opera manager here in town, that he also could go after these "scammers" as you call them, who change, don't show up, leave early etc.<BR>Baaaad people! Then his business will be as "successful" as CO's and the major airlines'.

I find it very interesting that my tax money just went to bail the airlines, Continental included ResBoy, out after 9-11 and they can afford to give away Eddie Bauer Ford Explorers for perfect attendance!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1<BR><BR>I guess not giving away plastic forks with inflight meals really did make the difference!!!!!!!!<BR><BR>God bless America...

Your tax money didn't go to BAIL anybody out and you know that, the airlines know that and congress knows that, but it sounds good when you like to bash the airlines. <BR>The deal with the Ford Explorers were set before Sept. 11th and the deal is being ammended post Sept. 11th.

I wonder what would happen if CORes or some of the other airline apologists went into a restaurant and decided to change their order when the waitress told them it would be a $25 change fee, PLUS the price if the replacement item?<BR><BR>If she made him wait three hours for the meal, only to tell him that due to "mechanical problems" he was going to get deep-fried shrimp instead of trout-almondine. Tomorrow.<BR>

Fred,<BR>Let's say that you owned this restaraunt and a whole bunch of customers everyday were changing their orders constantly? Would you just let them do it?<BR>If I ordered the fried shrimp for say $6.99 and then decided after I placed the order that I wanted steak & lobster (which costs $10.99) instead. Would you let me have that for the $6.99?<BR>Or let's say that I had th shrimp yesterday on a special which ended yesterday for $3.99. Would you still give it to me for that price?<BR>Would you let me change my order as many times in a visit as I wished?

If US tax payer money wan't used (and the media sure keeps saying it was) to bail out an industry that was failing before September 11 (oh, sorry that was beside the point wasn't it?) then what tax money was congress refering to?<BR><BR>And FYI, I don't hate the airlines I just hate the way most of them do business. Between customer service, problem solving, and the fact that it seems like there is one big airline, 2 excellent airlines stand out in my mind - Alaska and Virgin. At least they can think for themselves instead of playing follow the leader like Continental.

What planet do you live on CORes Boy? Of course MY tax dollars were used to bail out the airlines. All of our tax dollars were used - Where do you think the government gets its money to operate?

Of course the media keeps saying so. They are one of the biggest bashers of the airlines and were the largest purveyors of misinformation after Sept. 11th. The media kept/keeps using the term Bail Out even though it wasn't a bail out. The airlines said that it wasn't and congess said that it wasn't.<BR>I live on planet earth where people shouldn't take the media as gospel, but of course most do.<BR>What about the billions the airlines have paid in taxes? It would seem that we are to believe that the airlines don't pay the government anything and that the money came right out of your pocket. That's what the media and the few opponents to the "bail out" would have you to believe. Never mind that there were billions of dollars available for just such an occasion.<BR>

COresBoy:<BR>You really do sound exactly like Gordon,<BR>good work! Everything is everybody else's fault. And facts, like the tax payers' bailout money to all US airlines, which is not a media invention, just ask you Congress person, are simply ignored or denied.<BR><BR>Oh- and did you just mention that the airlines paid billions in tax dollars?<BR>Ha Ha Ha... it's the travelers that have paid these billions of dollars, added to the ticket price, not the airlines! Sure the airlines collected the money on behalf of the government, just like any other business does, but the actual money was paid by the consumer!!!<BR><BR>

What about the millions airlines paid as political contributions to candidates of both parties so they will vote for any bill that aid's the airlines.What about the mulit-million dollar sports stadiums that influence local politicians? Whether it is right or wrong it is true the Politicians are being paid to be on the side of the airlines.<BR><BR>And yes, that bail out was tax $$. Don't know how else the government would have anything to give out.

Well, I live on a planet earth where people shouldn't take their company's propaganda as gospel. <BR><BR>The media aside, fact is most of the airlines were running in the red before the tragedy of September 11. It is a fact that the government gave money to the airlines after Sep 11 to help sustain the industry until they got back on their feet. "Bail out" is a phrase that, like it or not, fits. Fact is that our tax money pays for the government. Fact is I just bought an airline ticket that has over $100 worth of taxes added to the fare. I'm sorry, who is paying your taxes too?<BR><BR>I own a profitable hotel. Before Sep 11 I was making a profit. After Sep 11 I am struggeling to stay open due to return of the lack of leisure travelers and the devistated economy. Should I be given government money to help me in my time of need? Even though, unlike the airlines, I proved I could carry myself and make a profit? Of course not because I don't pay millions of dollars a year to goverent political parties. Yes, I know, I'm sure you have the standard (insert major airline's name here) reply, a variation of "without the airlines this country would fall apart." But I think many of us realize that when one unprofitable airline folds, another will step in their place to give it a go. And for the record I don't feel that I need any government loans or "bail out" money. I was just making a point.<BR><BR>You should be down on your knees thanking the media for promoting all the spins the airlines like to chant. Next to the government, the media is your best friend. <BR><BR>When it comes to the airlines the American ideals of Capitalism and big business give the words new meaning.

....these new policies will drive away customers to consumer friendly airlines. Most small-businessmen fly on those reduced fares in order to cut costs, however due to extenuating circumstances some have their plans cancelled at the last minute. To penalize them is immoral at best! What the airlines need to do is look within. Their frequent flier programs are economic drains by virtue they give away seats below costs. My flight yesterday on AA from Orlando had about 25% of it's first class passengers holding paid seats, yet 75% of first class was from upgrade seats. This version of Voodoo economics is what has broke the airlines, not the consumer or the travel agent....

OK, let me understand this:<BR><BR>Let's say that I make an honest effort to get to the airport in time to make my flight, but there's a bad accident on the freeway to the airport, and it's shut down for a couple of hours. When I finally get to the airport after my flight has left, instead of simply being put on the next empty seat, they're going to charge me $100+ to get that empty seat?<BR><BR> . . . is this correct?<BR><BR>If so, then it's incredibly cheesy at least, and astonishingly contemptious of the customer at worse. Why can't reason, fairness, common sense, and yes, customer service prevail? I think it would be totally acceptable to make me wait until the next empty seat becomes available, no matter how long it takes. But to sock it to the customer (whom the airlines claim is first) to make up for years of mismanagement and financial incompetence is most definitely not the answer.<BR><BR>And sorry, CoresBoy, but the government did use tax dollars to "help" the airlines after September 11. And while you are absolutely correct that the airlines do pay taxes, so do many other companies that were severely affected by the tragedy, and they did not get one red cent in bailout money. Perhaps you should check YOUR facts . . .<BR><BR>How about assessing the airlines $100+ for every passenger who is delayed (under 2 hours), even if a flight is one minute late? Or, how about making the airlines pay a $5000 penalty plus FULL replacement cost for every lost bag? How about making non-refundable tickets transferable? <BR><BR>After all, if we're going to start implementing a system of draconian penalties, then it seems to me that it should work BOTH ways . . .<BR>

I feel very badly for airline gate agents having to deal with the many angry passengers that they are going to encounter. I have heard that the 'flat tire' rule will allow for standbys, but what happens when all late passengers use it and cannot prove it? This is all going to be bad for some passengers and all airline gate agents. CEO's, res agents and travel agents will be unaffected for the most part. Except for adding new conditions when explaining fare rules which I doubt many people actually listen to.

Of course, the way to respond to these actions is to switch airlines. If U, AMR, and CO lose a large number of customers, what do you think there response will be? If the remaining airlines see a large increase in passengers, do you think they will follow the lead? If you continue to fly these airlines, you have no reason to complain. It's really that simple!

I forgot to mention that if you switch airlines, you would also make COResBoy a very happy person. Just think, no more having to deal with passengers!

DS,<BR>Let me check my facts. How many of those businesses were shut down by the government for a week? How many industries went before congress to plea their case for financial aid?<BR>

CO your point is mute. How many business can go for one week with no sales and still survive? Many, with the exception of the airlines. It's called managing your business. To be literal, the airlines weren't grounded for an entire week.

Hardly the same thing Sally.

How is it not the same thing? Shouldn't the airlines, or any business, be able to go for three days without sales and not declare bankruptcy?

Why couldn't the Airlines figure out what they need to stay in business and make a fair profit and then base their fares on a milage basis. Seems simple to a simple mind like mine.<BR>Then the price wars could begin(.02 per mile vs. .03) if you booked 2 years in advance!

COresBoy:<BR><BR>You seem to keep harping on the fact that the airlines were temporarily shut down after September 11. Yes, the government prevented them for flying for a few days. The government also sealed the borders, thus disrupting trucking companies, rail companies, and other companies like the auto manufacturers, who rely on foreign (Canadian) plants for parts (just-in-time delivery). So much for your argument that the airlines were the only ones affected by what happened . . .<BR><BR>And even though the government did not shut them down, there were hundreds, and perhaps thousands of other businesses who were just as adversely impacted by what happened. Yet NONE of them got ONE RED CENT from the U.S. taxpayer.<BR><BR>And just because the airline industry spends hundreds of thousands of dollars every year greasing the political wheels (instead of on customer service) does not mean that they automatically deserve government $$.<BR><BR>This might actually surprise you, but I really didn't have a problem with the bailout when it happened. But when the airlines turn around and pass incredibly petty and nasty rules and penalties like this, as a "thank you" for our tax dollars going to save their mismanaging behinds, then I now regret my support for that bailout, and I can only hope that nothing like it will EVER happen again . . .

Add Northwest to the list of carriers. I'm sure Delta and UA will follow soon - who else is left?<BR><BR>DS,<BR>On CO you can show up 2 hours late and fly standby (I guess this is their way of accomodating traffic delays). But AA and US Air don't appear to make any exceptions.

Delta has followed. UA is the only hold out. I am sure they will join by tomorrow.<BR><BR>Who is left? Air Tran (if you cancel 1 hour prior, you have up to a year to use credit)<BR>Southwest<BR>JetBlue<BR>America West (hopefully they will not join the pack.<BR>Most of the small upstart OW Fare airlines have not joined the PACK.

Bravo DS! You said it perfectly.<BR><BR>Alaska is also holding out as is National. Any others? I am making a list so I can put my money where my mouth is.

Thank you, DS! I agree 100 percent.<BR>COresBoy - please re-read that post and try to REALLY understand. Because there will be a lot of anger hitting you guys from the general public, and you might as well brace yourself for it.