TSA/customs electronic snooping
 

A couple of papers I read had articles today about TSA/customs (it was unclear whether it is one, the other, or both) demanding that people give them access to data in their electronic devices (cell phones, music players, computers, etc) to the extent that selected people have to turn on the devices, provide passwords, and apparently disencrypt anything they have encrypted. Sometimes the devices are taken to another room without the owner, and sometimes actually seized with the "promise" that they will be subsequently returned.

In my opinion, newspaper articles are often inaccurate, but these articles seem to say the authorities are checking what calls have been made, what emails have been sent, any financial information, and of course, whether any of your music is from unapproved sources. Apparently some companies are so concerned that they have their employees remove all company data from their laptops, and restore it from the internet once the employee has navigated through the government whitewater. I know companies have a lot of legitimate data they consider proprietary and don't want to risk its being disclosed by some government screener.

A few years ago, I wouldn't have believed this could be done, but apparently it is acceptable government activity in the brave new world we have created.

Has anyone here had to deal with this activity? I'm really reluctant to disclose any of my passwords (apparently the screener watches while you enter it) and its a lot of work to create and remember new passwords, but apparently if you don't fully cooperate, they just make you miss your flight. I'm probably doomed because I carry a couple of cartoons that don't show President Bush in the best light, and if Hillary gets elected, I'll probably end up in a concentration camp.

I would like to read the documentation. This sounds pretty phoney.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/
wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/06/
AR2008020604763.html?wpisrc=newsletter

Washington Post, February 7, 2008, if the link (which apparently has a mind of its own) doesn't work. The article title is Clarity Sought on Electronics Searches, if you want to do an internet search.

WOW !!!! Double WOW WOW !!!! That should be required reading for everyone. And who do we thank for this huge invasion of personal liberties and property?

Customs - I don't mind. They are protecting our country and they ALWAYS had the right to search anything they wanted. It's part of the deal if you want to return to/visit our country.

TSA - no need, no real reason, no constitutional right. I hope somebody takes them to court and I only hope that our Supreme Court will get a chance to rule on this issue at some point.

Amazing what people are willing to give away when they allow themselves to be ruled by fear. No wonder so many dictators throughout history have depended on it. Looks like the United States is following the same path.

Customs - in every country, has a right to search everything and anything. That's been the rule for centuries. You are crossing borders and the country in question has the right to know what if anything you are bringing in, is against it's laws. Nothing to do with being "like a sheep because of some kind of war, terrorism, drugs, etc."

Electronic snooping is part of the deal.

How often has Customs gone through your wallet, business papers, or personal letters?

That's not the point. The point is that they have the right and it has been that way for centuries.

<i>CBP officers' border search authority is derived through 19 U.S.C. 1467 and 19 C.F.R. 162.6, which states that all persons, baggage and merchandise arriving in the CBP territory of the United States from places outside thereof are liable to inspection.</i>

http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/admissability/

Information is not the same as baggage and merchandise. There's no legitimate reason to examine your personal correspondence or telephone/address book, and I don't know of any legal authority to do so.

If your identity is stolen because TSA or Customs carelessly examined your personal information, you'll be in even worse shape than if you refuse to let them look.

I believe I did state my feelings about TSA - IMHO, they should not have the right.

If we're still talking about customs, then you're way off. They have the authority to strip search you, to empty your luggage, check your laptop (child pornography, illegal drug contacts, human smuggling, etc..).

Every country that I have been to and I will visit soon has the same laws on the books. Nothing to do with your assertions. Sorry but your understanding of border control/protection is way off the map.

So what you are saying, AA, is that if I return to the US with a file folder which contains a list of my stocks, bank account numbers, and maybe some personal information about my family and an address book, the custom officers have a right to seize that material under the heading that just maybe I had contact with a terrorist. If that is acceptable then why not just randomly stop people and search them. Sure, in time, we would catch one or two bad guys.

Do you travel internastionaly? Customs does pull out people randomly and they do check out everything about the person if they feel like it. It's their job and whithin their right. Until they say &quot;Thank You,&quot; and let you in the country, you are not in the country and you don't have the same rights as you will once you're outside the customs doors.

That's true for any country that I know of.

I am not going to get into who has traveled the most but we have traveled extensive since 72 and have never encountered anything that you have described either going or coming. As an American citizen I am not comfortable in giving up rights under the disguise of enhanced security.

Customs always, from day 1 had the right to randomly pull an arriving passenger(s), citizen(s) or not, and go as far as they want with their inspection. This procedure did not start after 9/11. The laws, allowing customs to search anything, everybody, were on the books for centuries.

I'm amazed at your lack of understanding this simple concept.

<i>It is not the intent of CBP to subject travelers to unwarranted scrutiny. Let me assure you that CBP inspection procedures are designed to facilitate the entry of U.S. citizens and aliens who can readily establish their admissibility. CBP officers must determine the nationality of each applicant for admission and, if determined to be an alien, whether or not the applicant meets the requirements of the Immigration and Nationality Act for admission to the United States. <b>CBP officers may, unfortunately, inconvenience law-abiding citizens in order to detect those involved in illicit activities. We are especially aware of how inconvenient and stressful the inspection process may be to those selected for inspection. In such cases we rely heavily on the patience, understanding, and cooperation of the traveler.</b>

Speaking with travelers and closely examining their documentation are some of the ways we look for mala fide or improperly documented travelers. We rely upon the judgment of our individual CBP officers to use their discretion as to the extent of examination necessary. However, CBP officers are expected to conduct their duties in a professional manner and to treat each traveler with dignity and respect.

<b>CBP Officers use diverse factors to refer individuals for targeted examinations and there are instances when our best judgements prove to be unfounded.</b> Although CBP does use information from various systems and specific techniques for selecting passengers for targeted examinations, a component of our risk management practices is the use of a <b>completely random referral for a percentage of travelers.</b></i>

http://www.customs.gov/xp/cgov/trave..._to_search.xml

What a ******* pile of double speak!!! And please don't insult my intelligence by &quot;suggesting&quot; this is standard operating procedures that have been in place for years. You can spin it anyway you want or put on your blinders and rose color glass --- but it has changed and the change is significant since 9/11.

It's clear to me now that it's you that has blinders on, but whatever...

§162.6 Search of persons, baggage,
and merchandise.
All persons, baggage, and merchan-
dise arriving in the Customs territory
of the United States from places out-
side thereof are liable to inspection
and search by a Customs officer. Port
directors and special agents in charge
are authorized to cause inspection, ex-
amination, and search to be made
under section 467, <b>Tariff Act of 1930</b>,
[T.D. 72–211, 37 FR 16488, Aug. 15, 1972]

&quot;As an American citizen I am not comfortable in giving up rights under the disguise of enhanced security. &quot;

I'm not quite sure which rights you think you have that you are now giving up. US &amp; international law is and always has been clear on this. Upon entering a country you do not have rights until you are granted entry.

You can claim to assert rights all you want but no law professor, no court or precedent in the land will agree with you.

O' contrary an American citizen does not give up his rights when he steps across a border. I do not have &quot;American rights&quot; in another country but that is not the discussion. When I return and am knocking on the door, I have those rights.

No you don't, until immigration and cstoms get done with you. As US citizen you have the right to be admitted to the country but you give up any and all other rights until you satisfy immigration and customs officials that you are indeed a US citizen or legal visitor and you're not bringing anything illegal into the country. Customs does not need a warrant to strip search you, to empty any and all suitcases, to ask about you, your job, your reason for being out of country, etc. etc.

Why is that so hard for you to grasp this simple concept?

You are correct. I was in err to make a blanket statement about rights in general.

The particular right which you seem to be concerned about is protection against unreasonable search and seizure as granted under the 4th amendment to the US Constitution. Long standing case law (in place long, long before 9/11/01) shows that the standard required to conduct a search at US borders is far less stringent than once inside the US.

From the article: <i>Maria Udy, a marketing executive with a global travel management firm in Bethesda, said her company laptop was seized by a federal agent as she was flying from Dulles International Airport to London in December 2006. Udy, a British citizen, said the agent told her he had &quot;a security concern&quot; with her. &quot;I was basically given the option of handing over my laptop or not getting on that flight,&quot; she said.</i> This doesn't sound like a case of a customs agent upon ENTERING our country, it sounds like a TSA agent upon leaving the US from Dulles.

Furthermore, <i>A U.S. Customs and Border Protection spokeswoman, Lynn Hollinger, said officers do not engage in racial profiling &quot;in any way, shape or form.&quot; She said that &quot;it is not CBP's intent to subject travelers to unwarranted scrutiny&quot; and that a laptop may be seized if it contains information possibly tied to terrorism, narcotics smuggling, child pornography or other criminal activity.</i>

The thought police described in the article is part of the post-9/11-&quot;1984&quot;-plastic baggie-B.S. security world we live in today, not the Tariff Act of 1930 era.

Puh-lease!

Shirin Sinnar says it very well in the article: <i>&quot;&quot;the government is going well beyond its traditional role of looking for contraband and really is looking into the content of people's thoughts and ideas and their lawful political activities.&quot;</i>

Oddly enough, TSA has a blog and addresses this question, since apparently they've been getting a lot of calls. http://www.tsa.gov/blog/

&gt;&gt;As the [Washington Post] article correctly states, this is a customs issue and not one TSA is involved in.

TSA does not and will not confiscate laptops or other electronic devices at our checkpoints. Our officers’ are solely focused on the safety of the traveling public and are looking for explosives and other prohibited items. Should one of our officers find something suspicious, we will immediately contact local law enforcement and potentially the local bomb squad. We will not ask for any password, access to any files or take the laptop from you for longer than it takes to determine if it contains a threat.

Should anyone at a TSA checkpoint attempt to confiscate your laptop or gain your passwords or other information, please ask to see a supervisor or screening manager immediately.&lt;&lt;

I haven't read the article posted by clevelandbrown, but I haven't had any type of devices confiscated or otherwise given any more than cursory attention.

I do think that the information AAFF is giving is indeed correct. And correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it in the pre 9-11 days that we had to actually boot up our laptops at the security checkpoint? Not at Customs, but at the entrance to the gate area.

I share the same attitude toward TSA as AAFF by the way.

I go out of the country about 10 times a year. I'm a US citizen, holding a US passport.

Majority of the time, I just hand the customs form to the officer and I'm out of the door, but here are some different experiences returning to our country.

About 02 or 03, coming back from a quick weekend trip to Manchester, UK, connecting in ORD. I did check a bag in MAN because at that time UK had some kind of terror alert and would not allow my carry on. Landed in ORD, walked through Immigration, and as I was waiting for my luggage by the carousel a CPB agent walked up and starting with small talk. Where did I come in from, what was the purpose of my trip, what do I do for living, etc?
I answered honestly. I found a super cheap fare from TPA-MAN for the weekend and decided to attend a ManU match. That was it, I left on Friday, came home on Sunday. I bragged about how lucky I was to score a great ticket at the Old Trafford, sitting right next to the team box and how I had Beckham, Sir Alex and Keane autograph my match program and I still had the ticket stub. She casually asked me to show her the match program and the ticket stub. I did, she thanked me, and wished me a safe flight home to Florida. (I classifiy this experience as a random pick)

Second time, I was coming home from Bangkok through Tokyo flying JAL to Honolulu before finally going home through Chicago.
This was a month long trip so I did have checked luggage plus I bought 2 framed pieces of original art in Bangkok which were boxed for me by the gallery. The flight was on a 747 totally filled with Japanese tourists and me the only caucasian on this particular flight between NRT-HNL. No problems with Immigration but as I was waiting for my luggage, I noticed the customs officers were checking me out as really stood out amongst the 350+ Japanese passengers. Sure enough, I was send to secondary as I was handing in my form. The agent opened every case I had and was very thourough going through my dirty clothes. At the same time she was asking same type of questions as the previous agent in ORD few years earlier. She was satisfied with my answers, she did not find anything illegal but she didn't know what was in the big box. I literally begged her not to open it because I would have been screwed with 2 3x4' framed and glassed art works. She took the box and had it x-rayed. She came back, thank me for being understanding and patient and wished me a safe flight home to Florida. (This one was probably because the agents were suspicious, something didn't seem right)

Third time, last year, coming home from Tokyo through Dallas. No checked luggage. Just a carry on and a laptop bag. Long line to hand in the customs forms in. As I walked up, the agent didn't even ask anything, just looked at the form and told me to go through the side door which turned out to be secondary customs. Waited for an hour in line, finally my turn. The secondary agent was an older, very experienced agent. He ran my passport through, was very impressed at the amount of international travel I did that year after all my itns came up on his computer which included Kabul, Afghanistan. We talked for few minutes, even shared a joke or two. He aplogized to me. Explained that the agent outside made a mistake sending me here that day. Made sure I had all my belongings, and wished me a safe journey to Florida. Never even looked at my stuff. (This was a purely random pick as well).

TSA: We're here, we'll peer, get used to it.

Government should stay out of our lives unless they don't want to, right? Same old squabble: government-defined &quot;national security&quot; vs. personal rights. I'm only surprised when people are surprised.