Jubilada,

I simply meant that there are different expectations for a 17 year old and a 70 year old, someone who appears healthy and someone who appears to have some physicial limitations. Of course there are issues you can't see at a glance (balance issues especially) however for the most part you can tell if someone is yanking on the seat because they actually need the help getting up or because they just really didn't think about it. If someone needs the help they usually give you a look of "hi, excuse me" vs the look from the clueless of "oh hey, there's a person there, whatdayaknow?! Dang it, why is your hair caught in my ring?"

This is also a bit of a pet peeve for me because people doing it tend to yank on my hair. I have very long hair, but it's usually pulled back, but somehow the person behind me manages to not just yank the top half of my seat back but getting a handful of hair in there too and pulling like crazy. That hurts!

I really wasn't assuming that people were doing it simply to irritate me, I generally assume that they're just being clueless. Based on what I see day after day, no, I really don't assume that people are always doing the best that they can. Granted, I often work on a large college campus.

Seat back in front? Well it is usually an inch from my nose --moments after the plane takes off and stays there except for moments during meal service and then as soon as possible back in front of my nose. Firstly can we think about whether or not we really really need the seat to go all the way back for the entire flight? I was recently on an Air Transat plane where, when you reclined the seat, it was your own space you were making smaller -- the seat shifted mostly foward as opposed to only the back going backwards. That seems more fair -- using up your own space.

For me -- I can't get out of the seat without using the seat back in front of me because I can't bend forward far enough to get me upright, the way I do from a chair at home - and because that seat back is an inch from my nose!

Another perspective,
Tansay

I suspect the people who say they can do it are, shall we say, vertically challenged. People have to lean forward to stand up, and I think with the seat in front of you reclined, your leaning space is gone. My impression is that with the seat in front of you fully reclined, there is not even space to stand fully erect, but I could be wrong; I'll have to measure that the next time I'm in such a seat.

At a recent trade show a manufacturer was offering a seat that was something like a saddle with a back, which I think did not recline at all. The selling point was that the pitch was 20 inches, rather than the customary 31 or 32 inches. Airline executives were reported to be salivating at the display.

I also have to grab the seat in front of me. It's not only closer but alleviates the possibility of missing the arm rest and instead putting my hand on my companion's crotch! It's dark and hard to see. The A380 (my last flight ex LAX to SYD) has entertainment controls in the arm rest, which is in many cases left open and touching it would make something happen, be it a film start, light switch go on, call attendant, etc. I can never sleep on planes, even if travelling in business class.

Grabbing the seat in front makes it easier for one to get up - if the person in the aisle chair won't get up. That said, if the aisle person has got up and into the aisle to let me past, then the arm rest is a good option.

It depends if the seat in front of me is in a full reclining position. If it's up straight or even half way, you can stand up without touching it. But when it's in full recline practically in your lap, you really don't have much choice (although I guarantee you I've never grabbed anyone's hair-do in doing so, I'm as careful as possible not to jiggle and pull, just rest my hand on the top).

Iowa_Redhead: My pet peeve is being judges by appearances. I like life better when I assume people are doing the best they can. I know it isn't always true, but it is a way I prefer to think.

I meant judged, not judges. I need to preview more effectively.

I'm looking forward to our flight in Nov. to Israel. I picked our seats, and hope they don't change. We have two of four seats across in middle section, one aisle seat and the one next to it, so husband and I will only have to climb over each other, and no one will need to climb over us. Yea!