SA Tours and Game Lodges
 

Hi guys;

I have been away for awhile but now would like to ask your help with planning my next winter trip.

One of the destinations is Southern Africa and we are most interested in game lodges/safaris.
This will be our 3rd trip there and now that we are retired do not have as much money to spend. Previously we spoiled ourselves with visits to Singita, Sabi Sabi, and similar luxe lodges in Botswana and Zambia.
The challenge now is to find a quality experience at a more modest cost !
Perhaps a tour that combines cities/towns and country side with some game viewing.
Also would like to see Namibia.
Any advice is welcome!

For game lodges/safaris, Kruger National Park. You have not been there? You can self drive Kruger for $120-$150 per day per person which includes a rental car, gas, camp bungalow, Kruger fees, meals at camp restaurants, everything. We love Kruger, have been to Kruger three times before going on to private ($$$$) safari camps.

regards - tom

I too recommend Kruger, but based on our most recent trips there, I'd advise that you not get the cheapest accommodations. Especially at the older camps, they're likely to be small, dark, and inconvenient. The cottages will likely be much nicer than the bungalows. It's a bit hard to figure out just what is meant by the terms "bungalow", "rondavel", "cottage", etc., but the Sanparks website has photos of all the accommodations, so you'll know what you're getting.

Driving yourself in Kruger is easy and delightful. You can also go on game drives with the rangers in addition to doing your own.

Mala Mala it ain't, but we've always been thrilled when staying in Kruger.

Celia

Have you considered Zimbabwe? Great value, and camps are safe.

There are some more rustic camps in Sabi Sands and Timbavati than you are used to. I did a very nice, relatively affordable trip last year to Mashatu (in SE Botswana), Pafuri in northern Kruger and Arathusa in Sabi Sands. We loved it. Other options are Elephant Plains, Djuma, Gomo Gomo We will try going to Kruger soon.

Russia might not be a good choice for most travelers who want to visit Europe. With its questionable peace and order situation particularly in the regions of Chechnya, the Communist rule impression still resides to most, and frigid climate throughout the country especially during the winter, Russia should be uninviting for most. But that was before. Now, although there are still shadows of the past Soviet, Russia is a place worth to be visited.
Tourism

We have a small lodge at the gate into the Timbavati and do safaris in the various reserves and the Blyde River Canyon by open safari vehicle, bikes, microlight, and even by boat. Our rate is very good at R3300 for 2 nights all included. +27833825098 - we have been running safaris for 20 years and understand traveller's needs.

Hey Christo,

I had exactly the same problem. Well, I mean, I'm not retired, but I too was looking for less expensive lodges (ic less luxury but similar wildlife experience).

So I spent a LOT of time on the web, and found a LOT of info and finally made my decision(s). We're leaving in 5 weeks.

To help others I summarized my whole experience in a thred hre on Fodors. You can find it at:

http://www.fodors.com/community/afri...und-kruger.cfm

Note; this is ONLY for Kruger area, not the rest of South-Africa, nor the Tuli block.

Hope it helps!

Ciao,

J.

TomCats
Why doesn't your profile state any lodge/camp email/webpage as you are not shay to promote your place?

As South Africa is ROGUE regarding big cat breeding and all that is involved it it would be nice to have your info for verification whether it meets travelers ethics.

((@))

pixelpower - thanks so much for "reposting" that link. I lost my bookmarks and I couldn't find it again. It's a great list.

Christo - we would love to welcome you back to Singita. If you haven't stayed at Singita Pamushana in the Malilangwe Reserve in Zimbabwe that would be a great safari experience to consider. The location is breathtaking and you have 140,000 acres of reserve all to yourself. An all inclusive stay is priced at $800 per day per person. We also have a great special running at Singita Kruger National Park, four nights for the price of three.

Hoping to see you again.
Janalyn Froese/Singita Game Reserves

Just for the record; my list contains mostly lodges that are priced less than half of the Singita price mentioned above. Iow around 300$ pppn. That is still 500€ per night for a couple, so not cheap eiher, and was an absolute limit for me.

To each his own, but I could never afford 800$ pppn. And even if I could I doubt I would. I remember a big discussion here when the top place in the Okavango Delta (*), Mombo, started asking above 1000$ pppn. Now it seems a lot of other lodges are asking almost the same. So how much is Mombo now then?

Ciao,

J.

(* OK, that is a discussion in itself)

J - for the record, I do want to go to Mombo. But chances are it will not happen. It's currently $1800 pppn plus trans. Yikes!

I have to tell you that your list and that thread got me to consider all kinds of places when we go back to S Africa. There are many private reserves that we can visit. I know we might not get the experiences we've had in the past, but we might! So, we'll only see leopards one day out of four - but we'll see rhinos and suni. I've not seen wild dogs at the high end lodges. My husband is a golfer so we are going to a golf resort that has a game reserve. (no, not Sun City, and yes sv, I am looking into their conservation practices). This trip I'm currently planning is so varied, and because it's so much less expensive, we can stay much longer. I just wanted to thank you for opening my eyes to all the other possibilities. WS and &Beyond are not the only choices. They're great, but out of my price range.

Christo, you mentioned wanting to keep costs more moderate. I posted this elsewhere before, but here is a list again of some of the more affordable safari lodges inside the greater Kruger National Park (all priced below $350 per night):
Elephant Plains
Arathusa
Nkorho Bush Lodge
Gomo Gomo
Kambaku
Simbavati
Mohlabetsi
Pondoro
Africa on Foot
nThambo
Shindzela
Umkumbe
Umlani
There's 13 affordable lodges to choose from, and there are others too. Nothing wrong with Singita and other more expensive lodges, but for those on a budget the greater Kruger National Park has a lot to offer.
Hope this helps!
Onne from Wild Wings Safaris

Thanks Onne. What area/reserves/parks do you consider to be "greater Kruger National Park"? And then what is simply "Kruger" and/or "Kruger National Park"? I'm generally confused by what to call Kruger and what to not :)

regards - tom

Christo have you considered Mala Mala? Wedged between Kruger and Sabi Sands, it's not outrageously priced and since it's so comfortable and the rooms are so massive, it may be worth tucking into your trip of less expensive camps. The game drives were quite fabulous, all that private land to explore, and the camp itself was nice enough to stay a week. It's ideal for families, retirees and anyone really. A vacation and safari in one. Another great tented camp in Kenya is Kichwa Tembo. Not too expensive and anyone will tell you it's rated highly and highly regarded. Best of luck.

Tom, I have noticed the definitions of "greater Kruger" differs a bit from one person to the next. First of all, the terms "greater Kruger" and "greater Kruger National Park" are the same. For me, the definition of this is really simple: any reserve or property which is not separated by fences from the rest of the Kruger National Park, is part of the greater Kruger National Park. In fact, stricly speaking one should speak of the "Great Limpopo Transfrontier Park" which now extends into Zimbabwe and Mozambique as well.
But for our purposes, I refer to all those reserves that are open to Kruger (no fences inbetween) as being part of the greater Kruger. This includes the Sabi Sand, Timbavati, Klaserie, Balule, Manyeleti, Umbabat, Mjejane and a few other smaller concessions and reserves that share an unfenced boundary with Kruger. There is free movement of animals between and through all these reserves and the rest of the Kruger National Park.
My definition excludes other game reserves in the same area, but fenced in on their own, for example Kapama, Thornybush, Guernsey, Tshukudu, Marloth Park, Kwamadwala, Edeni, Makalali, Selati and many others. These are in the greater Kruger area, but not part of greater Kruger. Nothing wrong with these reserves, they have similar bush and similar animals, but by nature they are very different to the greater Kruger National Park, because they are smaller and fenced on their own. There has to be much more management of animal populations, and for a reserve of say 10,000 ha they can only have so many lions, so many elephants, etc. When I am on safari, I don't like seeing fence lines. Some smaller reserves like Kapama will make a point of avoiding going near the fence lines during game drives, so you don't "feel" like you're in a small game reserve. Other small reserves to me feel too much like a glorified zoo, a bit too artificial. That's just my personal feeling. I like the vastness and wildness of greater Kruger. The total area of the Great Limpopo Transfrontier Park once fully implemented will be almost 4 million hectares.
Lastly, when speaking about the Kruger National Park itself (not greater Kruger), I am referring only to the national park, the part that is open to the public.
Sorry for the long reply, hope this all makes sense!

Lionlove, interesting to see you add Mala Mala with the less expensive camps. In 2010 a standard room at Mala Mala main camp costs $575 and in 2011 $625. Yes, not as expensive as Singita, but certainly not among the cheapest.

Onne from Wild Wings Safaris

Onne - thanks. That's how I think of it, too. I hope that is how most professionals refer to it as well. For first timers to the area, this would give them some idea that not all "Kruger" camps are created equal. I didn't know thornybush was still fenced.

If they can get the Transfrontier park accomplished it will be the most amazing park on the planet.

christbir - good girl ;-)

((@))

Many thanks Onne, your explanation of the Kruger fence (absence of it) makes sense. Several times I've had guides at Timbavati and Sabi Sand camps mention lion prides, leopards, elephant herds, etc. they think had crossed over, disappeared, back into Kruger.

So the Great Limpopo Transfrontier Park will at 4 million hectares will be -twice- as large as Kruger (2 million). And I see by looking at a map that Limpopo will share Kruger's northern border. WOW, that's impressive!!!

regards - tom

Thank you all so much.
There is a lot of great info here to follow up on and I already have looked up some lodges mentioned above.
Cara999 and Celia your advice on car rental and self drive has spurned some interest with us although we have some concerns with car theft and robbery - are these unfounded. Did you pick up the cars in Joberg?

I am aware of a number of lodges in the Madikwe Reserve, an area where we have not been.
Does anyone have any recommendations for this area ?

I will say that we have been very fortunate to have stayed at Sabi Sabi, Singita, Mombo, Jao, Duma Tao which were all fantastic but are now just to expensive for us !

Christo

Christo - re car hire/rental, we have three times picked up the car from Avis at JNB airport. And all three times driven to Kruger and after Kruger left the car with an Avis office in Hoedspruit. From Hoedspruit we go into the Timbavati, Kings Camp. Actually, an Avis agent drives in with us to camp and and takes the car back. We have never had an incident/problem doing this. The reason we choose Avis (over other SA companys) is because Avis is based in the USA and and should there be a problem of any kind we would like to deal with a "local" company for us.

The part that gives me the most difficulty is getting the right model of car. Many of today's econo-boxes set very low, small windows, very raked windscreen with large side pillars. For seeing game in Kruger you want a car just the opposite of all of this :) . You interested in more details, just ask.

As for Madikwe Reserve, I was there in May of 2007 for 5 nights at the Madikwe Hills Lodge. The Lodge itself was fantastic -but- game viewing was ok, just ok. So I'm not that enthused about Madikwe Reserve. However, other folks here have been.

regards - tom

Tom,

Do you know about M. T. Beds? If you can book close to your arrival date, you can get deals up to 1/2 off. They are very pleasant to talk to. If they don't have the very lodge you are looking at, they can suggest another of the same quality. (mtbeds.co.za)

Also, we visit SA for about 5 weeks twice a year and usually stay at Tomjachu Game and Nature Reserve just south of Nelspruit. It is significantly cheaper than safari lodges, has a 4 star grading, and can be done self-catering. No cats or elephants, but other animals and tons of birds. We just call MT Beds, leave for a couple of days to visit Kruger, Sabi Sands, or Phinda and then come back "home." They can also stow luggage if you want to leave and return later. 100% safe and reliable. (tomjachu.com)

Candace

Hi Candace, thanks, I have heard of M.T.Beds. Have you used them? If so, for what safari camps? Tomjachu looks nice (went to their web site) but I think I’d really miss big cats and eles.

Back to M.T.Beds, I have not heard from anyone that has used them. My main difficulty is deciding the trade offs involved doing it, in theory it sounds good. But there are a lot of unknowns without more real life details. I fly from USA California so flights cost $1,500-$2,000. (You in USA?). So I do not want to squander that cost (and the rigors of two days flying each way). My usual cost of safari camps, well last Sep 2009 I spent 8 nights at Kings Camp Timbavati and 5 nights at Kirkmans Kamp Sabi Sand and my cost was $4,300 (per person). Sure I’d like to save half of that, and then I’d likely spend it on another 10 days in safari camps (if half off) :) . But another associated significant cost could be transferring between camps. Charter flights (General Airways) is typically $350 (for 1 or 2 persons) for a short hop between reserves. So hopping between reserves could eat up savings quickly. Unless of course I stayed in the same reserve and the camps transferred me by vehicle. And probably could enjoy spending 20 nights in Sabi Sand camps :)

Anyway, am I overly concerned, has over analysis led to paralysis?
If you, or anyone, can give me some first hand experience using M.T. Beds, I sure would appreciate it. And of course since the real subject here are $$$, also their “before and after” prices using MT Beds.

regards - tom
ps - last Sep before Kings Camp and Kirkmans we spent 7 days in Kruger so total time in Africa was 20 days.

I did search here for MTBeds and for last three years found these three threads with MTBeds as topic subject-

http://www.fodors.com/community/afri...-mtbedscom.cfm

http://www.fodors.com/community/afri...-mtbedscom.cfm

http://www.fodors.com/community/afri...marchapril.cfm

But none of above had specific camp and $$$ examples.

Also, in searching within all subjects for replies I found this good example, which would be about 50% discount. Great deal, I would certainly go back to Kirkmans-
From Krugerlover on Jan 13,08
I used mtbeds to get accommadation at Kirkman's Kamp in December. Payed R1440-00 pppn and got 3 nights.

BTW, MTBeds web site lists 24 camp discounts for Sabi Sand, Timbavati and adjacent reserves-
http://www.mtbeds.co.za/hotels/sabi-...-reserves/0/25
Some at 50% off, some less, many say for “SA residents only”.
Using one camp as a test, Lion Sands River Lodge, for any combo of dates I put in for August MTBeds says there is availability. Really, not one day in August is the camp not full? I doubt that, so this would require additional emails or telephone calls.


Regards - tom

tom - we were going to try the mtbed thing last year. Book the flights 30-60 days out and then 30-14 days ahead try to get last minute availability. We chickened out three months before we went and booked a well-planned trip. If you are flexible and willing to give it a go, it sounds like it could save a bundle.

We are currently looking at a 17-20 day trip. I think we'll be able to do it for under $3000 pp plus air and car. Going to try Shindzela, Entabeni (husband is a golfer), Kruger, Tembe, Hilltop in Hluhluwe and Thanda. None are self catering, and I added in NP fees and game drives. Most include all meals. We also have a few one nighter hotels for transfer time. All are big five.

I know it doesn't answer your question, but you could really save a lot and still stay in high end camps with mtbeds. The number of camps surprised me, too. Oh to be a SA res - really great deals, and no airfare!

Question - how did you get the Avis rep to join you, and how did you get to next camp/airport? Renting an SUV is quite pricey for three weeks. Any suggestions?

christabit, you could always emigrate to south africa ;)
I know a few people who live here for 6 months of the year, and abroad the rest of the time

Thanks christabir. Twenty days for $300 is great rate, works out to $150 per day. As for MTBeds, I guess I look at it as are the $$ saving versus the unknowns worth it coming over from the USA? Also, I've heard that once you are "in country" you can get the SA resident deals.

Cars.
We have had Avis "collect" the car actually at two locations, Hoedspruit as I mentioned and also at Kruger Skukuza. Both locations have Avis offices. The fellow at Hoedspruit said he makes the trip into Timbavati about 3 times a week, so nothing new to them. (Hoedspruit has an airport, HDS) There is a charge for it, I think it was $20 and I also tip the agent. Ok, so, now we have turned in the car and are at Kings Camp. After Kings Camp they have a shuttle back to Hoedspruit airport (costs about $40 pp). Or, if your next camp is in Timbavati they will use a camp vehicle and drive you there. Or, if your next camp is in Sabi Sand you hope on a General Airways charter flight at the Kings Camp airstrip.

Car choice, yeh SUV size would be nice. Sep 2009 we had a Honda Jazz. It was not great, was low, had big raked windscreen with huge pillars but it did have an auto transmission. In 2007 we had a Subaru Forester which was good, sort of a mini SUV or wagon. But still its back passenger window did not go all the way down (typical today) which irritated my sister setting back there. A nice thing about Avis at JNB is that it is a huge operation and they have many many cars to choose from. But as you know Avis in SA is still a -lot- more expensive than Avis USA.

regards - tom

Ton, there could always be an exception to the rule, in the end it could be simply "supply and demand" and negotiable. But "South African Residents only" usually means "Permanent Residency", which has a legal meaning and has to be verified by means of a S.A. Identity Document.

Although I have seen that requirement (the id doc) listed in the past, I happened to see it very recently on the SANparks website, as in "South African Citizens and Residents (with ID)".

Oops, I obviously meant "Tom".

Christo, I think most of the car theft is of BMW's and other high-end luxury cars. There are gangs that make their living stealing these and taking them to Zim where they're exported. We do always keep our rental car locked, and we've never had problems. On our last two trips we've rented SUV's or trucks, and driven them in the game parks, small towns, and rural areas, and had no problems with theft or robbery.

We've always picked up our rental in Jo'burg, and dropped it off there or elsewhere, depending on the trip. In 2008 when we went to Kgalagadi Transfrontier Park, we rented a small car in Jo'burg, drove it to Upington where we traded it for a 4x4 which we used in the park, and then in Upington turned that in for another small car to use on the rest of the trip where we didn't need the height for game viewing.

If you like driving, South Africa's a great country to do it in. The scenery is wonderful and the roads are generally good.

Celia

tom - thanks for the car recs and info. Can you drive a sedan into Timbavati? I prefer a manual while on vacation (not for every day) so that's ok for us. I think it's going to add about $1000 pp, so our "cheap" safari will not be. Plus, add food at about half of the above and golf (for him) and horseback riding (for me) and it's still nuts.

ww - that's the plan!
Celia - great idea to exchange the car as needed. That could be doable at Richard's Bay for us.

MTBeds -
Why they would limit it to SA residents defies my logic. Maybe it is a requirement of the camp? Still, why? What does MTBeds bring to the process anyway? Bet they just call the camps and check on availability for you. Book it and take a commission. I can understand needing their help if I know nothing about camps. But since I do :), why could I not just call the camps for the same rate deal? Either 2 weeks ahead or after I'm there at the airport.

About ID/fee for SANParks, yes the cost is more if not SA citizen. At Kruger you buy the Park fee at your first camp and every camp after checks that you have it. That SANParks has varying fees is logical to me, that a private business safari camp does, is not logical for me.

Driving to Timbavati - There is a "main" asphalt road that runs along inside the north edge of the Timbavati. Off of it are smooth gravel roads into the camps. So, sure, no problem driving any kind of car. The camps (and staff) have cars and vans they use to shuttle guest to/from Hoedspruit. Yep, car and other costs do add up like you say. I used to think that cruising was expensive at $200 pppn, but not any more :) .

regards - tom

Tom, my assumption has always been that it is a requirement of the camp (or whatever), not MTBeds. I don't have any personal experience of that, but over the years I have seen many "direct" (not third party) print adverts that have that pricing difference. I think those adverts have even included Sun International, although that wasn't recently.

I'm not an advocate of the policy, I'm just the messenger. But as a S.A. citizen born and "bred" I'm also not going to join any crusade. ;-)

BTW, MTBeds is owned by Comair, the BA and Kulula operator. It was launched in 2000 and acquired by Comair in 2008.

Thanks ASA, I'm not upset with you nor the camps. It's their business to price and sell how they wish. It's just I don't follow their logic, but then again at least half of the whole world is not logical to me :).

I'm really becoming more and more tempted to add a few days time to my next trip so I can fly into JNB and spend a full day shopping for bargain safari camps. Camps with room beginning the next day!!! No problem for me to "waste" a couple of days as long as doesn't cost a lot. But like I said above, big savings could be negated if several expensive camp transfer are required. FWIW, this has also been suggested to try at Maun for Botswana camps.

regards - tom

Just thought, if anyone is hesitant to talk about this here in public, suggest/discuss ideas, agent names in SA to work with, etc. my email is on my profile here.

regards - tom

Change regions and look at Kwazulu Natal, we have some lovely luxurious lodges that will take you on game drives in to our Big Five National Park Hluhluwe/Mfolozi and there is so much else to do in this area, St Lucia Wetlands for boat cruises to see hippo and crocs in the wild, birding, Emdoneni Cheetah and wild cat sanctuary, and it is on the beautiful coastline of Kwazulu natal
www.kzn.org.za

Lodges to consider Thula Thula http://www.thulathula.com/
http://www.makakatana.co.za/gallery.htm, http://www.zulunyala.com/ and lots of other options

www.kimssouthafrica.blogspot.com