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Photographic Safaris
I have been researching the possibility of taking a safari accompanied by a professional photographer.There are quite a lot to choose from with some very big names involved.
Has anybody ever been on one, if so what did you gain from it, and did you think that the additional cost was worthwhile. |
<b>Has anybody ever been on one</b>
We went on a guided photo-safari trip to Tanzania in 2006 (15 people, 5 jeeps), then subsequently did three more trips on our own to Tz and one to Kenya without a tour. You can see pics from these trips at this link ... http://www.hiltonphotography.net/africa/ ... the January 2006 trip was guided, the rest not. I feel we got our best photos on the self-guided Jan 07 and Feb 08 trips to Tanzania, but we were using the same safari company, same lodges and same highly skilled driver as we used on the earlier guided trip, so basically profiting from the earlier 'investment' if you will. <b>if so what did you gain from it</b> You are basically paying for the trip leader's knowledge of where to go, when to go and what to do when you're there. Whether this is worth an extra 50% - 100% over do-it-yourself is a good question. <b>did you think that the additional cost was worthwhile</b> Yes, for my wife and I for the first trip. Then you should be OK on your own for repeats. BTW we looked at four companies (Andy Biggs, Art Morris & Todd Gustafson, Joe & Mary Ann McDonald, Joe Van Os, led by John Shaw etc) and would offer a couple of tips in evaluating which company to use. Look at the photos of the trip leaders, this is the best you could do after many trips. Ask for at least five client references and contact them and ask to see THEIR photos, which are more in line with what you'll probably get if you have similar photo gear. Some guys are more into birds or predators, others into people and scenics ... try to get a good match between your interests and what the trip leader is after. Ask how many game drives you'll do at dawn and sunset. Some of the tours are able to jam in game drives (what you're REALLY over there for) early and late even on travel days, others are more leisurely and waste some prime early morning hours on moving days. Just as one example the tour we took had 26 game drives in 14 days while another tour we didn't take had 19 game drives in 12 days due to travel. I wouldn't go on a photo tour with more than 3 photogs in the jeep. Two is better, four is definitely too many if most people are bringing long lenses (which is typical on a serious photo tour). Most people have a great time and come back with nice photos, even on the do-it-yourself trips or the non-photo tours with six people elbowing each other in the jeeps. Bill |
there are some dates for elephant plains camp (sabi sands south africa) in sep.
only 6 people. if that's intersting - just post. i'll dig for the details then. div |
in respond to your questions whether we have experienced a prof photographic safari: no we haven't.
jonathan scott e.g. or d.balfour will not only lead the safari but also share their secrets of the perfect angle, light, cut, perspective etc. in the evening or afternoon they discuss with the "apprentice" their points of view when it comes to wildlife photography etc. so it's rather a workshop experience then just an accompanied safari. div |
There is obviously no single correct answer to this very good question.
I suggest you ask yourself the following: 1. Can you really afford the extra costs which are substantial, or would you rather spend the money on better equipment, a longer safari and perhaps better accommodations more suited to capture special wildlife moments? 2. Are you sociable enough to deal with a small group of people in a crowded vehicle - all vying for the best shots and position? In my experience having two people with super long lenses get bothersome. With 4 or more? Forget it. 3. Will you be in a convoy of vehicles (3 or more)? The expert cannot be everywhere at once. 4. Is the trip about learning to shoot in nature, or about getting the best wildlife shots? There is a huge difference - if you spend 3 nights in a lodge on a group safari vs. a 7-night private mobile safari you may get good compositions but the mobile photographer will probably get the money shots. 5. Would it be better for you to invest your money in a top-notch naturalist safari guide, outfit and itinerary, instead of a top photographer on a standard group safari? 6. Is your spouse as serious about photography as you? Will your spouse be happy on a group safari with competitive photographers? I think it is a very personal decision. An good alternative is to enroll in a nature photography trip or school in your own country and to follow up with a private safari with a top guiding outfitter - specifing your emphasis is photography. |
i looked around a few years ago at some of the safaris that were offered by some of the better known photographers out there, and here are a few thoughts based on my limited research.
* there wasn't much of a cost difference between a private safari with the same exact camps or lodges and what these photographers were charging. Well, a few safaris were about a grand more per person, one was only about 300 more and another was about 1500 more. * some photographers seem to put teaching at the top of the priority list, and some others don't really teach at all. i think it all depends on what you are after. for me, i wanted some instruction with some flexibility on schedule. * the photo safaris all seemed to have an above average comfort level, so they were not inexpensive safaris to begin with. only 1 photographer ran a style of safari with lodging that i was interested in personally, and the others seemed to skimp. i prefer mobile camping over lodges, as this seemed to be a way of controlling costs, getting closer to wildlife and having a more private experience in a group setting. in the end i ended up going on safari by myself with my wife, but i wonder what a dedicated photographic safari would have been like. i came home with some nice photographs, that is for sure, but who knows what would have been different. i had a problem with my camera in the middle of the safari, and i noticed that many of my photographs weren't sharp. it wasn't a problem with the camera per se, but rather a problem that i didn't know my equipment well enough. thankfully our guide seemed to have an idea of what the problem was, and it turned out to be that i was shooting at too slow shutter speeds. amateur mistake, i guess. i used roy safaris for our safari, and feel like i got what i paid for. decent service, decent lodging and a decent guide. i went to tanzania, and there weren't safaris geared towards photographers when i could travel (our daughter was graduating from college when some of the safaris were offered). i cannot wait to got back in a few years. |
I have not been on a professionally led photographic safari, but I'd like too, I'm sure it would be fun and I'd learn. I would expect the professional to teach good lighting, what it is and how to find it and every day to comment on my photos.
Although I haven't looked at photographic safaris in some time, I remember them being much more expensive than the same safari on my own. It may be difficult to compare costs, you have to look closely at how many nights/days are in camp not just how long the whole trip is. I feel that a photographic safari would benefit most a photographer that is more than a beginner in photography. Someone who at least already understands well the technical basics of photography, such as: relationship between f stop and shutter and ISO, lens focal length, DOF, color temperature, elements of composition. And also knows some of the craft of image editing and manipulation (think Photoshop). Of course previous experience shooting wildlife, of any kind, is almost required. Having said all that, if you just want to do it, fine go ahead. You will learn something, improve and can always go back for more :-) regards - tom |
If you think you need photographic advice do a workshop at home.
Go on safari by yourself (or with a friend/spouse) and enjoy the safari experience for itself. You'll have plenty of chances to take images. Geoff. |
First get to know your camera and what it can do. Practice, practice, practice .......
Composition and things are something that is more artistic and is induvidual ..... it's all in the eye of the photographer. I want my pictures to tell me what I see - not how someone else wants me to see in them. Expensive group trips - probably not ideal for photography, anyways. I'd rather invest the money in a private vehicle. Lots of operators have more than suitable guides who know photography intimately. They will position the vehicle appropriately according to the light. (know where to drive and how to track the animals, and it is they who drive the professional photographer leading the trip, anyways ........). Let's not belittle the local guide or staff and think we need a foreigner to step in and do everything just right (Yes, they could go on and on and on "Hyena has the strongest jaws" etc etc.,) ...... I've been on safari with one or two camp guides who have participated in many photo contests and have given me pointers through constant interaction. Prediction of animal behavior is also important and they come in handy once again. If the group trips, are conducted in off-beat areas or at places that are not so well known(where the group leader has spent a great deal of time and knows the area intimately well) - then perhaps so. Yet, it would be more from a destination specific safari........ There are some disadvantages of group trips in general - you might have a desire to focus on a specific subject. How do you focus on this, when eveyone's desires have to be respected just as equally? You always have the chance to be in a group with someone extremely abnoxious. What can you do? Probably not too much ...... |
Typo - "Not what someone else wants me to see in them"
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My experience with local guides is that by far most know very little about photography. YMMV :-). There, was one however, Maurice at Leopard Hills who is an excellent photographer and guide. I'd be happy to have him for all of my game drives.
regards - tom ps - I want my photographs to communicate the same feeling/emotion I felt when seeing the subject. |
If you are interested in taking the best wildlife shots, it's definitely not the best way to go.
As I would do it: before you book your trip make sure you understand how to handle your camera gear and practice (even it is in a zoo). Look at books of wildlife photographers carefully and study the photographs in detail. Also some useful tips can be easily read on websites/books. The most important thing is the guide - (passion about his job/knowing animal behaviour/understanding photography). In most places you can easily find local guides who fit for this job. A private vehicle is also preferred because of the flexibility you need (time you want to go out/how long do you want to stay with a sighting). Here a guide can be very helpful especially if it's your first safari and you don't know if it's worthwhile to stay at a sighting or not. As I am spending lots of time in Botswana I have a look at some of the itineraries for those photographic safaris in Botswana and I am not always convinced that the places they choose are best. In my opinion commercial reasons often play a role in choosing the outfitter/location they are working with. As an unexperienced safari traveller, you just don't know. I think some of these photographers really are there to do what they advertised, others are just there to make money and make the best shots themselves. I got this information from what I've seen while on safari myself and what guides told me. |
I ditto Johan and Hari, every word!
If you can not afford a private vehicle for yourself, I would attempt to book a group safari with members of a local camera club or similar. Each person has their own photographic style that they develop based on the basic rules! My rule of thumb, spend as much time in the bush as possible in one visit! |
I have actually been on a Photographic Safari with Andy Rouse to the Masai Mara, and enjoyed it thoroughly. It was not overly expensive and I picked up some useful tips. The main benefit was the fact that we were in a very small group with specially adapted vehicles and good guides. We had three vehicles for 7 people. On this trip we saw other photographic groups led by other professional photographers. Each group was large one unbelievably so over 30 people, with relatively overcrowded vehicles.
Both of the photographers running these groups are mentioned above. IMHO you need to be very careful in choosing who you choose to go with, look at their work, find out if they have published books not just with nice photos but necessary techical information and advice on processing etc., and make sure the group is small enough so that you can get personal attention. In the alternative then I would follow Skimmers advice get out there and try it, but get a private vehicle and good guides. |
crosby
here you get an idea of what, when and how much.... http://www.robinpopesafaris.net/spec...nterest.php#pw div |
sniktawk, wow. 30 people!?!? that is way too big. i never uncovered that in my research, but i am glad i didn't fall into the trap. 30 people is way too many. i agree about looking for a photographer with nice photographs and some teaching skills to back it up. there are many talented photographers out there with personalities that are off-putting. a certain guy in the usa with the name of a large northern mammal comes to mind. his groups are also on the really large side, which isn't conducive to learning much.
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Thank you everybody for your replies, given the vast membership of this forum I am rather surprised that there appears to be so little personal experience of this type of safari.
I have looked into some of the suggestions and found most if not all to not were in my opinion found wanting. In fact the only photographer mentioned in the message from Bill H was himself! Having investegated Andy Rouse it appears that he is not currently doing safaris in Africa. Any further ideas? |
i am curious what you found to be wanting? i looked into these types of safaris a few years ago, and i thought a few had great work, great reputations and good web sites. some web sites were and are lacking, that's for sure. and some have informative web sites, as well as content that taught me a few things.
i might return to africa next year, likely kenya, and am going to start gathering information again to see if a photographer leading a safari will work for me. i might choose a different destination if the safari is compelling enough. |
"to be so little personal experience of this type of safari." So, give me the extra $5,000 or more to do a pro led photo safari and I'll be happy to do it :-). AND do a trip report (inside joke).
Maybe what you say is because this forum is a travel forum and not a photographic one? One of my favorite sites for safari photography is one based in South Africa - http://www.outdoorphoto.co.za/cms/ (In fact, I mentioned it in another thread now running here). Skip this home page if you want and go to their workshop page - http://www.outdoorphoto.co.za/cms/view/workshop Twenty workshops and safaris listed for Aug, Sep and Oct (most are workshops). One other possible answer to your question. Travelers with this kind of money to spend, over $1,000 per day per person on every trip they take are not -regular- visitors and participants here on this site (sorry Fodors). They are too busy choosing the color schemes for their new Learjet. regards - tom |
i just did some searches on some common digital photography web forums, and some of the names that Bill H mentioned had some hits on their names. i guess that is the answer. more photographers go on these trips, rather than people who are approaching it from a different angle of just african travel.
what i can find is the biggest differentiators for these trips are: * very few people in a vehicle. usually 3, but a few will put 4. * teaching while out on game drives, plus some do slide shows at night. * optimization of schedule for more photo opportunities and fewer fillers. ...more research to come.... |
I have been asked what I found wanting, this is a brief summary of what I found on the net
Joe Van Os Next trip to Masai Mara, limited to 54 people!!! 10 days $8,000 Only 3 per vehicle Some quite disparaging comments on photo net Andy Biggs Very expensive ,Tanzania 9 days $9,000, no details of numbers or vehicle limits No independent corroboration on net. Todd Gustafson Nothing available till 2009 Tanzania 9 days $9,000 visiting lots of disparate places for a short time Joe McDonald Website not up to date, no prices or numbers, again two days each at many places . Art Morris One of the best photographers in the world but mostly concentrates on birding and seems to operate with Todd Gustafon. Most of these seem to operate mainly in Kenya and Tanzania, and seem to try to do a tour rather than stay in each place for more days. Costs seem to average around $1,000 per day when compared to lodges and private vehicles elsewhere it is not overly more expensive, if you get some benefit from it. I will as suggested try elsewhere, but look forward to any information that Jgardner can come up with, thank you for looking. |
When I look at cost per day, I count only the days you are on safari, not total days on the trip. Costs usually well over $1,000 per day of safari.
And that's another problem I have with these photo safaris, they are not long enough. Typically 10 days which includes 2-3 days of travel/flight time. So then you get about 8 days on safari. For me to spend $2k on airfare and many hours getting there (from USA) I want to have at least 14 days on safari. regards - tom |
Carry 999,
We agree on something again! The trips organised by most of these photographers are very short and jump about a lot. At least when we went with Andy Rouse we were in the Mara for 10 days at one place, in one private camp for a very small group. It was also considerably less than cost of these others, and to be quite honest featured a photographer who is within the top echelon of his field. As a further question has anybody had any experience with top African Photographers i.e. those that live there? Africa Geographic runs some interesting trips, that might be worth looking at. |
I've done a couple of trips to Botswana with Chas (Charles) Glatzer www.shootthelight.com. Three people per vehicle so you get the row to yourself. There were 6 people total including Chas, two vehicles and he spent alternate days in each vehicle so he was with you for half the trip. I definitely learned how to photograph wildlife. He teaches composition, lighting, exposure and he's a very generous teacher. If you are interested, read the testimonials on his website. What you read there is what I have experienced on his workshops. Some of my images from that trip are here http://www.pbase.com/cjw/botswana_africa_2005
I'm going on a workshop with him in September (Spirit Bears in B.C.). Lodging will be on a 71' boat and Chas leased the whole boat for 7 or 8 people so that his workshop will be the best it can be. A managable group that he can give the best he has to give. Which is a lot. |
Cindy,
Was your trip reasonably priced in 2005? What was the most important thing in terms of photographing wildlife you learned on that trip? |
ok. here is some of my research and opinions:
joe van os = wow. 54 people!! i didn't realize the groups were that large. that is silly big. next! joe mcdonald = absolutely horrendous web site. i am talking circa 1994, maybe worse. the colors are gross, and his own images on the site aren't any good. i have seen his prints in person, and they are quite good. but his web presentation is about as bad as it gets. and hoot hollow sounds like a children's book. they seem to have a great reputation, and that is worth its weight in gold. they do trips all around the globe, so his kenya trips aren't plentiful enough to be able to choose a date that fits my work schedule. andy biggs = i have read some of his posts on this site, and he seems like a really nice guy. and i love his images. he is likely the more creative of the bunch. more is said about him on other photo forums than of any other photographer that leads trips to africa. his prices aren't that different than anybody else's, but they are on the shorter end. i sent him an email and he indicated the shorter trips are to make the safaris fit the short vacation schedules of those with limited time off. he also offers extensions to make the trips longer for those that want more time. i suspect all of these guys do the same thing. his groups range from 11 people to 14 people, depending on the country and style of trip. tanzania is 14, but moving back to 11 next year. he was the easiest to reach, as all of the other guys have assistants that reply to emails. todd gufstason = not enough information online. just summary dates and costs. heck, i don't want to have to send an email to find out what his trips are all about. kind of frustrating. his images are just ok. my images from tanzania a few years ago were decent, and i expect that my leader would be able to blow me out of the water. art morris = polarizing guy, it seems. some love him and some don't. he isn't an african specialist, so his trips aren't very often. he goes with todd gufstason, which tells me todd is his underling? who knows. art has a huge following, and i like his images. i am not a birder, so i am not sure what i am going to get. i don't want to be interested in big mammals when the rest of the group is interested in some tiny brown bird. i love it all, but i am more interested in mammal interaction. it's something i didn't get enough of on my last safari. andy rouse = i didn't know he ran safaris. another generalist. i like his images, primarily from a composition standpoint, but his processing is a little too heavy handed for me. it's like he is messing with the shadows and highlights tool in photoshop too much. i hear he is a nice guy, which stands for something. i also found a few other photographers to throw into the mix, based on looking at the web sites above. andy biggs has 2 other guys that run safaris with him. bruce dorn and chris gamel. bruce dorn is a canon explorer of light, which is a feather in the cap. and i don't know anything about chris. he is a wildlife biologist by trade, which i like the idea of. todd gufstason has two guys other than art morris helping him out, too. martin plant is one of them, and he appears to be a wedding photographer in the UK. david vore is the other guy. i couldn't even find much about him, as he doesn't appear to have a web site. in the end, most of the pricing was similar, so there is a cost to going on these trips that is over and above a standard safari. you also seem to get more, primarily in the areas of fewer people in the vehicle. i did call one safari agent in florida and got a price quote for an itinerary that mimicked one of the safaris from one of the above photographers. there was about a $400 difference. i claimed that there were 3 photographers that wanted a private safari, and the locations we were interested in staying were identical. so the markup makes sense, and isn't what i expected to see. i am totally willing to pay an additional $400 for the added leadership and instruction. the question is would i have stayed in the same lodges or camps, done the same number of days, etc? probably. so now i am looking to do a trip in 2009 or 2010. i will look around to see when i can travel, and then choose a safari that best fits my travel windows. and boy do these safaris book up quickly. dang! i don't want to anticipate which photographer i will choose, but i think i have narrowed down the list a little bit. bill h, are you going to run photo safaris in the future?!? |
sundowner, thanks for adding chas to the mix. i just did a quick search and saw some very very nice images on his web site. another generalist, which isn't bad, but it sounds like he does a fair amount of teaching. that is a *great* thing, and something that i am interested in. why did you choose him over the others? did he have any africa experience? i don't see many africa images on his web site, unfortunately.
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ok. i just got an email with a list of more than 10 references for me to openly contact. only 1 photographer has proactively given this information, and others haven't been able to get it to me or have sandbagged. interesting.
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Bill_H said:
You are basically paying for the trip leader's knowledge of where to go, when to go and what to do when you're there. Whether this is worth an extra 50% - 100% over do-it-yourself is a good question Well I don't think so. Why should I pay extra to go to places which I could choose by myself. If you are a keen photographer, which I suspect you are if you are prepared to pay that much money - you know that the first hour after sunrise and the last hour before sunset often give the best results. So if you come across an interesting scene at that time, be patient. (So don't pay for that either) Knowledgeable guides at hand can tell themselves when a scene could work for a great picture or not. (So I don't need a professional photographer for that) It is marketed like you are gonna have tremendous better photos if you are joining them ... well I don't think so unless you are a person who don't know much about photography at first. But then it wouldn't make sense to go on a trip like that ... better follow a course at home. |
i agree and disagree. the problem is that on my safari my guide was nice and knowledgeable, but in the end he didn't have a clue where to put the vehicle without my having to instruct. he also took me to locations that i knew would be much better in different light. for example, we went to some hippo pool in the late afternoon and all the only place where we could shoot from was a place where we had to shoot into the sun. i asked him about this, and he told me we could come back in the morning when the light was over our shoulders, and there would be fewer people in the morning as well. huh? why didn't we do this in the first place? things like that kind of drive me nutso. i want instruction, because my photo skills are ok but limited by the lack of experiences. i mean, i know photography, but i don't know photography all that well in Africa. and i suspect i won't have all that many more trips to africa in my lifetime, so i want to make sure that i have the best opportunities to get my best shots. so i guess a balance of instruction in the vehicle, some sort of looking over my shoulder back at the lodge or camp while on my laptop, some slideshows perhaps to the group, and then some sort of followup when we get back home.
i am beginning to believe that the safari business really is about the tailoring of safaris to meet your specific needs. my last safari was a great experience, but it only met part of my needs. just like a walking safari wouldn't meet a photographer's needs. i wish i could hire a photographer for like 2 days before my safari really begins. that way i could control my cost and perhaps be on better footing going forward. it seems that many people on fodor's go to africa regularly. i don't, unfortunately. after planning my next safari, i probably won't be on the forum much or at all. it makes sense that if you have been to africa many times you probably have the photography thing nailed by now, but for those with limited time and experience it is a different situation. i found a few other photographers that run trips, although much less frequently. i can post if people find it valuable. |
J Gardner,
Thanks very much for your continued efforts. You appear to have found much the same as me, except that most of the stuff about Andy Biggs is written by himself, I can find no books by him or even prizewinning photos. Andy Rouse is clearly not just an African Wildlife photographer but he has written several books containing African Wildlife Pictures and featured in many leading Wildlife Photography competitions. Judging by his blog he must have been in Africa taking photos over the past few years, and obviously Sniktawk accompanied him on one of these trips. I like his photos a lot, but as I said it appears that there are no safaris available to the general public at the moment. I looked at the Africa Geographic Safaris and found them to be well priced, they also in some cases feature Mark Tennant! |
andy b. appears to be the new guy on the block, as he started running trips back in 2003. i did notice that his images were used by banana republic in their summer 2008 catalog, as well as all of their store walls. perhaps he just doesn't pursue the publishing route? no idea. but book publishing isn't one of my requirements in a photographer. looking at his schedule, i doubt he has much time to write anyway.
i also found a few more names: martin harvey, robert knight, james hager, nigel dennis, and daryl balfour. i suspect if i keep on writing all of these names are going to show up in google searches. ha ha. great marketing for all of the names on the list. maybe it is time to stop. |
Well everyone, here I go again :-( .
jgardner - IMHO, your good posts would be so much easier and pleasant to read if you would capitalize letters as used in common business English. regards - tom |
jgardner
you must be very spefial as cary999 asked you in a very polite way to comly with HIS/HER rules. or he/she has eaten lots of chalk ;-) once up on a time he/she offered me literally two choices: comply or leave :-) guess what i chose ;-) i am able to read and understand your posts the way they are written! div |
Yes, jgardner, you are in good company.
regards - tom |
Oh my. I don't want to be grouped in with Divine!
Time to be less lazy, I guess. Compliance is my middle name. |
jgardner - you must be a married man :-)
And happily married I would add :-) regards - tom |
hey, wait! I just noticed you drop your capitalization at the beginning of sentences, too! Other than that, I though my written English is quite good.
Yes, I am happily married. Hopefully she thinks so, too. I wonder what our teenage kids think, though. :-/ |
Hey wait a minute guys, I'm new here and thought Divine, Pippa and Sinktawk were all the same person. Whats the scoop??
Ted |
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