more and more SA lodges exclude LAUNDRY now.........what you think?
 

Sometimes I get the impression lodges/camps have lost gravity and don't acknowledge any economic environment their clients/guest live in.

The increase of the ZAR against the $ and € by almost 35% compared to early 2009 doesn't make them reluctant to even exclude the laundry.
E.g. Lion Sands River lodge and Sabi Sabi Bush lodge I just found out. I am sure this will become "fashion" and more lodges will exclude laundry.

What you think? Do you consider this stinginess?

I personally think the greed is just going through the roof and lodge owners can't curb showing it.

Are you feeling to return to SA for the X time or do you search for other destinations?

((@))

I would really like to return to southern Africa, but the exchange rate is making me rethink this. Glad I was able to take advantage of the earlier, more favourable rates. Trying to understand if the $1:ZAR 6-7 range is more realistic or 'normal' than $1:10, which is what it was when I began to increase my travel to SA last year.

I'm now looking for regions with a more favorable exchange rate (or 'bang for the buck') but have not come up with any yet.

SV,

Sounds like these places in SA are moving more and more in the direction of that hotelish sort of experience.

At the rates they charge they should include laundry. As Femi says the exchange rates are making S Africa less of a good deal now.

Here's a 5 year chart of Rand vs $$$ -
http://tinyurl.com/23ye45p
7:1 is the average I'd say, as it is today. Within the last 5 years varies from 6:1 to 11:1.

If SA not so good deal now, what/where is better? I need to know because I'm trying to plan a safari for 2011.

regards - tom

THX a lot for your replies!


tom
Generally speaking: The exchange rate has experiences ups and downs from 6/7 ZAR to the $ up to 10/11ish ZAR/$.

Besides the exchange rate fluctuation it's the rate increase which within 5 years has roughly doubled!

And despite that all now charging for laundry is just appalling!

To me the whole safari business seems to be kind of "cashing in as long as it lasts".

YES HariS - at some stage in the early 2000s lodges started adding spas, plunge pools and that sort of thing in order to enhance their services leading to a more boutique hotelish feel.

Lynneb
So think I.

Zimbabwe is a real deal still.

Zambia is going the same route as BOT but might get a set back as soon ZIM is fully back on the safari circuit.

I really don't know where to safari in the near future......

Or just keep out of peak season and visit in green season - as we were hoping for 2011 but have to postpone due to some trips to Australia in family affairs which require our presence. :-(

((@))

It's talking from both sides...
"don't pack alot of clothing, as comp laundry is available"
vs
"pack your entire wardrobe or pay thru the nose for laundry to be done"

Or is this what we get for being "eco-friendly?" Sign of the times!

As with most things, unless people complain loudly... they'll keep on doing what they do... upping the ante on your already $1000/person nt room rate! Ugh!

Isn't that what you would do if you owned a safari camp? Wouldn't you raise the rate until customers started backing away, until you started to lose a lot of business? I would.

regards - tom

As far as I know, laundry has never been included at River Lodge, only Ivory so there is no change there.

Mike

Having your laundry done is a big attraction, and almost a necessity since you have to keep your duffle bag light on the puddle jumpers. It would make a difference in which camps I chose, possibly. Plus I assume this eliminates jobs in already desparate areas. I would frown on that if it's increasing the profits at the expense of the local population. Plus it's just dumb politically.

I want to be comfortable, but I want a safari experience. If I want to go to a hotel there's lots of competition in other parts of the world. They should be offering a unique experience that cannot be duplicated elsewhere.

About half the camps I've been to include laundry and half do not. What's the big deal? You can't afford another $40 with your $6,000 safari???

regards - tom

Tom that 5 year chart was helpful and confirmed my suspicion. Seems like the good times are over as far as the value of the USD in SA, and now reality bites.

I generally do not choose trips on the basis of whether or not laundry is included, but if it is (even for a nominal fee) it does make things easier. If I felt gouged I probably would be less willing to return to the same facility. Chances are the laundry wouldn't be the only opportunity taken to squeeze more profit out of the customer in places that gouge.

As for value, I'm planning to give Sri Lanka a try. However now that the war is over and there has been a surge in tourism, I expect prices to rise accordingly. I also think the wildlife viewing there will have to be taken on its own merit and not compared to an African safari.

The exchange rate is closer to where it "normally" is. As an emerging market, S Africa's economy is growing at a faster rate than ours. This is a good thing for SA! I'm not dissuaded by the currency, but it is adding some cost to our planned trip. No worries...

I do my own laundry in the sink or tub on safari. I've only stayed in a few places that do laundry for "free" and they don't do "smalls" most of the time anyway. The clothes dry pretty quickly - I bring Tide packets and a piece of clothes line and hang it in the shower and use the hangars. If you can hang them in the sun outside it's better, but we've had monkeys and/or baboons steal our clothes. Since I don't use the service, I add the money saved to our over-tipping fund.

I have never felt "gouged" in SA. We are just paying what the public will bear. But I won't be going to any high end lodges again any time soon now that I know I don't have to.

Well, ZAR:USD is 7:1 now and it has been very close to that for over half of those 5 years. I can accept it being 7:1. The blip to 11:1 was quirky and short lived. But I did get in a safari at 8.5:1 :).

Value is obviously very much a personal thing. Sri Lanka, you may see leopard and elephant there but no lion. How much is it worth to you to see lion? Another $300 per day??? And then you still won't see tigers!!! Only thing I'm fairly sure of is that life flies by. (and taxes) Like someone once told me here - "your clock is ticking" :)

regards - tom

I have to convert from GBP so it's got worse for us.

It's not so much about being able to afford the laundry it's about the total approach to pricing.

I'd still travel to somewhere if they charged but I'd feel a little as though I was being ripped off in some way. Same way as I do if I stay in a 5* for business and they charge for drinking water.

The small things that are included in the price just give me a better feel somehow and enhance the service.

As these lodges are charging more because they've tarted up the soft furnishings and included a spa, I think they should continue to include the little extras that go with that.

Charging for small items smacks of low cost carriers.

tom
"About half the camps I've been to include laundry and half do not. What's the big deal? You can't afford another $40 with your $6,000 safari???"

< Sorry - obviously I coudln't get the point across. It's not about being able to afford or not. It's about gouging!

"Isn't that what you would do if you owned a safari camp? Wouldn't you raise the rate until customers started backing away, until you started to lose a lot of business? I would."

< Carefully evaluating what's acceptable is the clue here. Marketing wise gouging is a NO GO as it's hard to get people back if they once start turning their back towards a destination. It's a huge marketing effort to re-establish a brand once it's damaged.
But why I am telling you that ;-)

((@))

"Charging for small items smacks of low cost carriers."

Good analogy!!! ;)

"How much is it worth to you to see lion?"

I'd happily pay a lot more (and am) for the chance to sit amidst a herd of elephants and simply watch them. Hence the appeal of Sri Lanka.

We paid for laundry at Sabi Sabi in 2008 so I don't think this is a "new" policy there. Tom's right. The cost of the laundry is surely less than 0.1% of your total safari budget. Is it more expensive than you might be able to find someone to do it at a b&b on another stop on your trip? yes. Is it that much more than you'd expect to pay at home to have someone do it? Not so much.

Why shouldn't I pay for services rendered? If I got a massage, I'd expect to pay for it or ordered a premium bottle of wine, I wouldn't expect to just get it for free. I'm not sure how $40 (and I don't even think we paid that much) for a week's worth of laundry is exactly "gouging." It's not like there wasn't something of value given in return.

"...sit amidst a herd of elephants and simply watch them...."
You've never done this in South Africa, even Kruger??? The "breeding herd", maybe 50 eles, is feeding and moving and so they are all around you and slowly meandering along. In a private camp you can stay with the herd, in Kruger you have to let them move to/away you on the road. And in Kruger you can see this for $150 per person day!!!

Also, FWIW the eles in Sri Lanka (when I was in grade school its name was Ceylon) are Asian elephants. Asian elephants are smaller than African eles being only about the size of an average dairy cow. At least that's what I remember from elementary school.

regards - tom

Having to pay for laundry just isn't a big deal to me, because this has been the norm for many of the camps I have visited over the past 10 years. $10 every few days is less than my bar bill. :-)

It just isn't worth getting all worked up over. All businesses have inflation, and there are decisions that companies have to make as a result. Discontinue services, make services pay-per-use, increase prices across the board, etc etc etc.

In your own business have you seen your own products or services go up in price over time? Have your customers understood? Have they complained? If they have complained, what happened? Discontinue price increases? Remove services or water down the product?

I am a business owner, and I understand how these things work. Try not to get emotional about the small things and enjoy your safari.

ab - WAY less than the barbill!! :)

I can assure you, if you get up close with an Asian Elephant you are going to be a midget in comparison ....... they are pretty big. Sri Lankan elephants are meant to be particularly fiesty, just as they are here in some parts of Southern India. I think a great trip and albeit very different, one travels to discover new places.

That said, I ought to go to Sri lanka very being that it's only a 40 minute flight from here.

Some camps don't charge for your laundry but do for bar drinks. Others charge for laundry but not for bar. Others charge for both. Others don't charge for either. Yikes, they are trying to drive me crazy(ier) !!!

regards - tom

Hari I know I tend to take locations in my own backyard for granted. Thought having &Beyond start up operations in South America would change this, but alas it never came to fruition.

Had to laugh at the dairy cow comparison Tom! Been to Kruger a few times now, and the biggest difference that I'm hoping for in Sri Lanka is a decrease in the number of vehicles/people at a sighting and an increase in the amount of time I'm able to spend with the ellies. Hwange and Chobe also have huge herds, but I still found the traffic distracting (not so much in Hwange).

I'm really not interested in chasing after the Big 5 on safari, but rather in being able to stop and enjoy anything of interest that we may happen to find. I'm also becoming more aware of the diversity of birdlife and would like to spend more time observing them rather than zooming from one predator sighting to the next.

Femi - What is a game drive like in Sri Lanka? Are you permitted to drive yourself in reserves? Or do you have a camp provided guide and vehicle? Maybe an ele is your game drive "vehicle"???

About visiting "foreign" places. There is an old saying that goes -
Live in a place all your life and you have nothing to say about it. Visit a place for a day and you talk about it the rest of your life.

regards - tom

This will be my first visit, but I will be visiting Yala national park (among others). Nights will be spent in tents with cots - sort of mobile safari camping. Safaris include vehicle and ranger. I'm not interested in elephant backed safaris, although I'm sure arrangements could be made. More info here: http://www.leopardsafaris.com/home.html

I would only be unhappy if I couldn't get ANY laundry done on a 2-3 week trip. Who cares if they do it, but charge a few bucks? The cost is insignificant relative to the cost of going to Africa.

I just spent three weeks in Bots and Zim and didn't have to pay for laundry or drinks at any of the camps or lodges. It's certainly more convenient that way, but some people would rather not foot the bill for others (especially for drinks.) The main issue for me is to know what the policy is in advance and the approximate costs, so that I can plan accordingly.

Apparently excluding laundry has no impact on these lodges. What can I say, many customers are idiots. There are tourists who will pay $1500 pppn for getting two 3-hour game drives in a car with other 5-10 people, and fooling around the pool the rest of the day. Unbelievable, but it happens all the time. I see that lodges in Africa are steadily moving towards less services and higher prices. And it makes sense, since there are idiots who will pay anything.

All posters, who don't care being charged for laundry because it's "peanuts" are right.
It isn't much - compared to the trip costs.

But hey - the staff is on site, the lodge does its laundry anyway and the laundry means "peanuts" particularly at high camps/lodges in that regard as well.

I would not expect Elephant Plains to do the laundry FOC: Nor Arathusa or any other 3 - 4 * camp. But SS bush or LS river - we are speaking about 700+US$ pppn - should show generosity particularly as it IS PEANUTS!

Let me stress: It isn't THE MONEY - it's the GREED shown.

((@))

Indeed... And do we expect from such people to do anything for "the local community" as they often advertise ? Heck, we very well know the staff are underpaid. I'm perfectly sure that many owners or managers will raid the tip box (I've had it confirmed a couple of times).

Next thing you know, they'll instruct the drivers to choose especially dusty roads so that the lodge laundry will bring them more money :D

"Let me stress: It isn't THE MONEY - it's the GREED shown."

That is your opinion. Your opinion only, how do you know what their motive is? Where are your facts to prove it?

regards - tom

tom

Sorry, if you need PROOF about the motif - I can't help you!

Obviously it isn't ONLY MY OPINION.

I am puzzled by your defense.

I also don't think they need an apple polisher.

I am sure if they are lurking they smirk when they read your defense. :o)

If you think they deserve it - drink more, book SUV, feed the laundry box and throw your money down their throat.

Happy spending - and pls don't complain about rate increase when it suits you ;-)

((@))

We're about to go on our first safari and I'm not sure of the laundry policies at the camps where we'll be staying. Some of the clothes I'm packing can be washed in the sink & will dry overnight so I won't be sending a lot to the laundry in any case.
But - I was really surprised when planning this trip that laundry was included anywhere. It seems so out of the norm - I've never heard of that elsewhere whether 5* hotel or all-inclusive resort - -we've always had to pay for laundry.

So I guess since I'm not used to it being included as you folks who've being doing safaris for years and years I won't miss that.

There's also something else: When you stay in upmarket lodges you send the message that you don't care much about money - all you care is to have a good time. And you expect the owners of the camp/lodge to be in the same spirit. A couple may have payed $15,000 for a 5-day stay. This is all inclusive not because the clients can't pay the extra to have their laundry done, but because it will appear IDIOTIC to charge them more money for it. Heck, it would sound perfectly ok to raise your rates by $100/day and include laundry! But to ask EXTRA money for it when your client already pays $1500 per night, is simply MORONIC. It's like asking them to pay for extra gas if the game drive was longer than expected, or pay for the extra potatoes they asked for in their dinner. Aren't the owners ASHAMED to ask for that much money ?

All inclusive means ALL INCLUSIVE. Unless of course it's something really expensive, like a vintage Dom Perignon.

When I am generous and I spend money as if they grew on trees, I DEMAND that my host is NOT a skinflint.

(the above should read "to ask for that EXTRA money")

Maybe the camps are taking lessons from the airlines?
And some camps charge you for bottled water and cokes. Yet do laundry for free!!

regards - tom

Tom, if I was cheap I wouldn't be going to southern Africa. And your logic is faulty. Rich people look for value too.

But services included is something I consider. It wouldn't make sense to pay an alcohol-included price if a person doesn't drink, so he'd lean toward camps where booze is extra and the board is lower. I drink, so drinks included is cost effective.) On safari I'm choosing location, wildlife viewing and guiding first. But if it's an even choice in those areas, I might lean towards one where laundry is included. We take long safaris--4 to 6 weeks--so we have to wash clothes a lot, and not having to think about the extra charges (or doing it myself) is a plus.

I don't think it's greed. It's a business plan. Not necessarily a smart one, in my opinion. Nickel and diming for little extras has bred much ill will among airline customers, but they do have to find aways of making a profit. Unfortunately, we have to fly to get places. And if we want to see wild animals in remote places, we have to go to Africa.

Our last safari we went to camps that drinks and laundry were excluded. We knew beforehand, so no problem. The drinks were so cheap - it's not worth paying for all inclusive for us. Less than $100 for 7 nights - and we had at least two drinks each every day, plus bottled water. They even left filtered, iced water in carafes in our tents (free!). Laundry can be done ourselves or pay the small fee. Now that I know that good safari experiences can be affordable and comfortable, I won't be going to the $500 + pp/pn camps. I'd rather go more often and skip the free laundry.