Lion Sands River Lodge
 

We are booked to stay at Lion Sands River Lodge in Kreuger.
Have never been to South Africa.
Is this a good decision, or should we change?
Thanks
Bev

The sabi sand seldom disappoints... if the river doesn't rise and destroy the lodge before you get there I am sure you will have a super time.

How much rain have they been having in the SSGR this year?

You will have a wonderful time at River Lodge. As for the river flooding, I would not worry about that. Odds are everything will be just fine. I am going again in May and I have no worries.

Here are shots that I took at Lion Sands on my last trip.

http://www.pbase.com/mytmoss/lion_sands_2007

Mike

Bev

It should be great, though you don't say when you are going.

Hari

I heard a lot of rain had fallen in December, poor Kaye! But I don't think we're talking 2000 levels.

lion sands river is very nice.
personally i would prefer the sabi sabi bush lodge

http://www.sabisabi.com/lodges/bushl...1ACA0AC4D2A0B6

the rates are more or less equal.

the bush lodges is extremely stylish with huge bathrooms, large lounge and bedroom.

i have stayed at the bush lodge as well as earth. earth is posh but bush is wonderful and good value for money.

lion sands ivory is wonderfull. stayed there.

but this is a personal thing. just what you prefer.

widlofe sightings are excellent at both.
game drives and safari routine as well.

sorry if i did bring something up which you didn't want to face ;-)

div

Thanks for the responses.
We will be there in late January.

Erly

I'll be at Mala Mala in late January, I which is both great game viewing and no rain!

Matt

It is lovely. I took a peek at River Lodge when I stayed at Ivory. We had fantastic gameviewing, but this was in late September, 2007.

I was there last week and it was wonderful!! Nothing flooded, lots of wildlife, wonderful food, great guides, great staff. Guide concentrated on the small interesting stuff (birds, snakes, plants), as well as the big 5, and the respect and attention to the environment was noteworthy. Beautiful terrain, lush and green, which makes the animals harder to find of course, but the trackers are great. I want to go back!

Trip report please.

We are now in Capetown at the Cape Grace Hotel, and the City and Hotel are wonderful,far beyond our expectation.
I cannot express how nice everyone was at Lion Sands River Lodge.
We saw the big five...and much more.
The food was excellent, and we were pampered in every way..
However we did have one problem, but didn't let it spoil our trip.
We had heard that many people in this violent world request that the Rangers go for the "kill".
and are requested to follow the predators.
We contacted the Lodge, and told them that we would come there only if they guaranteed that this would not happen to us, and they gave us their word.
The first day we encountered six wild dogs with a fresh kill, and watched them tear the Impala apart and devour it completely in about ten minutes.
Kurt our Ranger, and the head Ranger there asked if I was O.K. as he knew of my request.
I was as we encountered it, rather than seeking it.
To make a long story short, the next day he did follow the dogs to find a kill.
A herd of Wildebeast outsmarted them, and the dogs eventually left, so Kurt asked "Who wants to follow the dogs".
When I said no, he turned to me and said "majority rules".
While we watched the dogs he also described in great detail how lions take down an elephant and eat it while it is alive over a two day period .
The next morning I was told at Breakfast that he will follow the predators to their natural outcome, so we might want to hire a private Ranger.
We did and paid a lot of money.
If you believe in Karma, the last night everyone was looking for a leopard as we had not seen one.
We found the leopard just finishing off the kill, and Kurt and his group were the furthest away and didn't reach us until dark when the mighty beast had dragged his kill into the darkness.
I would not return there.

erly - You never watch the National Geographic channel nor Animal Planet nor Discovery when they have African nature programs, do you. So why did you go on safari? Give me a break.

regards - tom

erly,

I'm sorry but you're a bit pathetic. Why did you go on safari if you know that there's always a chance of seeing a kill or something being eaten??

Kurt was 100% right when he said "majority rules". Hopefully I'll never have to share a game drive vehicle with you!!

Regards,

KL

rough crowd.....
isn't the client king anymore?
Avoiding kills is easy enough, sorry that they could not have indulged your request, but I guess that is what sets the guest orientated operators apart from the rest.

This issue is not a Lion Sands issue, it would be the same for all lodges where the vehicles have multiple guests. To think that LS is unique to letting "majority rules" is naive.

If you want to make sure that you do not go to an actual kill, pay for a private vehicle (which is expensive) and you can do what you want. Based on my experience, the vast majority of the visitors want to experience everything including the kills.

I would be very annoyed if I had someone in my vehicle that did not want to see that. Fortunately in my more than 50 games, its been a non issue.

Mike

Wait a minute - you went looking for Leopards and you did track one down. Now you're upset that he/she was feeding? How does one tailor-make sightings?

In defense of erly, I think other posters are being overly harsh by missing erly's point. I point out the following, quoting from erly's original post:

First:
"We had heard that many people in this violent world request that the Rangers go for the "kill".
and are requested to follow the predators.
We contacted the Lodge, and told them that we would come there only if they guaranteed that this would not happen to us, and they gave us their word."

So, the lodge evidently assured erly that he/she would not have to go out SEEKING a kill.

Second:
"The first day we encountered six wild dogs with a fresh kill, and watched them tear the Impala apart and devour it completely in about ten minutes.
Kurt our Ranger, and the head Ranger there asked if I was O.K. as he knew of my request.
I was as we encountered it, rather than seeking it."

So, the kill, having been encountered and not actually SOUGHT, was OK with erly.

Third:
"To make a long story short, the next day he did follow the dogs to find a kill.
A herd of Wildebeast outsmarted them, and the dogs eventually left, so Kurt asked "Who wants to follow the dogs".
When I said no, he turned to me and said "majority rules".
While we watched the dogs he also described in great detail how lions take down an elephant and eat it while it is alive over a two day period."

So, the guide used 'majority rules' to seek out a kill, despite the fact erly had been promised that he/she would not be subject to that kind of behaviour (seeking a kill) from the guide.

Finally:
"The next morning I was told at Breakfast that he will follow the predators to their natural outcome, so we might want to hire a private Ranger.
We did and paid a lot of money."

So, erly was told that if he/she did not wish to seek out a kill, they should hire a private guide/car. And they did.

I believe erly's point is not in criticizing kills if encountered "naturally" in the course of a drive, it is in heading out with the specific goal to seek out a kill. And that the lodge told them that that would not happen to them. When it did happen to them, they were upset. What the lodge SHOULD have told them is that there are no guarantees on what will happen or be seen on a day-to-day basis, that the desires of vehicle-mates need to be taken into consideration and, if they want to set their own agenda, that can only be guaranteed by hiring a private vehicle & guide. So, the lodge failed to communicate properly.

The difference between "just happening upon" a kill and "seeking out a kill" may be lost to many, but it evidently had been an expressed concern by erly that the lodge failed to deal with.

Agree - the lodge should not have guaranteed Erly anything, especially when they were in a shared vehicle. They should have told them upfront to book their own private vehicle. sounds like some communication issues...... still Lion Sands is a fabulous destination and I did visit there a long time ago (2003) and did enjoy it there.

All the sightings mentioned above appears to be just coming across the action ..... the wild dogs and the leopard, for example.

Erly, and everyone else going on safari should be prepared for anything in the wild. Be it, a kill or just an afternoon observing impala and kudu and some random birdlife...... For specific tailor-made safaris, a private vehicle sounds like the only logical option.

ricmck
I want to thank you and the others who actually read my post.
A private vehicle is over $1000. per day, and that would need to be factored into the cost of the trip.
The lodge should not have given their word, and reneged on their obligation.
It is a warning for like minded people.
To Tom and KL, that was exactly my point, as I didn't want to be on Safari with you.

$1000 for a private vehicle... IMO, extortion. Two safaris a day, about 3 hours a safari, six hours drive time @ 15 miles an hour, that is around 90 miles in a day, max! Vehicle probably gets 9 miles to a gallon, at the worst. 10 gallons of gas in a day, argue $4 a gallon for fuel, wear and tear... thats a cost of $40 a day... where does the additional $960 go?
Ranger and tracker... well that $1000 is double their salary combined... you were had, shame on them!

How can they justify that price?

Costs more than gas to operate and maintain a vehicle. For the punishment a game drive vehicle may take, $3 per mile would not surprise me. And that's just for starters.

However, I know one camp, Kings Camp, that charges (if I remember) only $260 per day extra for the private vehicle. Now that is reasonable.

regards - tom

We had a private vehicle at Lion Sands last year and did not pay $1,000 a day!

A private vehicle at LS does not cost $1000 per day but it is expensive. I have done it there and may do again.

When you say you contacted the lodge and they made promises, no chance there was a misunderstanding? I do find it hard to believe they can make a promise that would be hard to deliver. The lodges, including Lion Sands, do not need to make false promises to fill their rooms.

There are way too many variables to make that promise including an imposition on other guests and their wishes. I think if you asked any lodge that question, the answer should be the same assuming no private vehicle, no promise could be made.

Mike

I checked to see what the rate of a private vehicle is at LS, its R4375. I wanted to know for myself as I am interested since I am going there in May. At the current exchange rate, that about $400 a day, FAR from the $1000 that was posted earlier.

Given that someone said a vehicle in Kruger was charged $260, I think $400 is reasonable for a private reserve. I probably will not do it every day, but I think its worth it for a few days for my photography.

As for seeing a kill, there may have been a misunderstand at what seeing a kill means. Personally to me, it means the actual hunt and then the capture and killing of the prey. To the original poster, it may mean that even seeing a dead animal being eaten means a kill. So far in my 5 trips, I have not seen a kill in the sense of the word where I use it. That may be part of the confusion.

Mike

Mike I suggest you get that price in writing in advance.
A for me, I was going to drop the issue, but I will have my Travel Agent
contact the lodge for a refund.

Unfortunately this thread has become like broken telephone, so for the last time I will say, coming upon a kill is O.K.
Specifically looking for a kill is not

Erly I have gotten it in writing. So if you feel you were charged $1000 for just the vehicle, I agree, you should contact them for a refund. My dealings with the lodge have all been perfect so far.

If you find out that you were not charged $1000 per day for a private vehicle, you should also post that here too.

Mike

Hi Mike,
I don't usually keep unnecessary papers, but I was just checking my next flight, and to my surprise I found their quote, typed on their Stationary.
We are Canadian, and asked how much it was in our dollar
The quote:
per half day
540 Canadian Dollars
429 US Dollars + vat
I thought that all of the staff were wonderful, and their service was even beyond our expectation... but something is very strange.
I will of course follow through..

"per half day"
More or less per game drive. Or like you said first, $1,000 per day?

regards - tom

Tom, its not per 1/2 day. I have done it before and I plan to do it again. That quote is for a full day.

Mike

Hi Erly, I was rude in previous post to not thank you for posting the rates you were quoted. I think you should follow through in case an error was made. The people at LS are as nice as you say and if there was a mistake done, they will correct it. You probably can contact them directly if you paid the fees to them, or go through your agent if you paid for the private land rover via the agency. I hope it all works out for you.

Mike

Mike - I was quoting erly who says they are reading directly off of the camp price quote sheet given to them. I don't know which number is correct. But IF the camp quoted $429 per half day (plus tax), then $1,000 per full day is correct. At least per my math, but hey, I only know what I'm told and I believe every word :-) But now I'm confused - again :-) Sooooo, good luck erly!!!!!

regards - tom

Oops, I missed the small print of her post, but I am will check late night when they are in their office.

Mike

I received a reply from Lion Sands about the rates of private vehicle and I have posted them below.

ACTIVITIES RATE SHEET 2009


Description
Rates

Private Land Rover – Guest Exclusivity, Photography or Bird Watching (Minimum 2 nights booked)

R4 345.00 per day

It clearly states PER DAY and not per drive.

Erly please do continue to check on this. You need to have it taken care of to your financial satisfaction if you were charged double that.

Mike

I received a nasty response from Lion Sands telling me that people nowadays want the thrill of the kill, and that I should not go on Safari if I don't want to go for the kill, as this is the new reality because of the recent Television shows.
No explanation whatever about their promise.
They totally ignored my question regarding their intent to double bill me.
I am not finished yet..

Thanks for your follow-up. Keep after them. The least they can do after lying to you is get their charging correct.

regards - tom

One other thing, wasn't it your agent -not Lion Sands- that said you wouldn't have to see a kill? Maybe most of your complaint is with your agent? Well, never mind, I'm staying totally out of it.

regards - tom

I am curious about one detail: Who is the person that sent you the nasty response? I am asking because I had a bit of a dispute with the manager on checking out--regarding a bill for wine that should have been included. Just wondering if the same manager is handling your inquiry.

I have been following this discussion for sometime and was avoiding adding a comment as I feel being the Owner of Lion Sands and therefore potentially biased towards our Lodge these forums need to remain exclusive to travellers only. Firstly thank you to those who have defended our reputation. This is so greatly appreciated and means a great deal to me and all of us at Lion Sands.Thankyou! Regretable "erly's" stay did involve seeing what she has decribed above and due to other guests being on the land rover it was a sitaution where a compromise had to be made. It was not our intention to effect "erly's" stay but we had to give consideration to the other guests demands i.e. client always remains king. This has been discussed in the forum so I shall not continue on this subject. I would however like to remark, and is the reason for myself entering this forum, that there have now been false acqusations made about overcharging "erly". We have submitted all details through to "erly's" agent with full proof that we offered "erly" a full day private land rover for a 50% discount to accomodate "erly" request. The full day land rover usage was charged to "erly" at R2172.00 (excl. 14% vat) as this is 50% of the normal full day rate.This is approximately USD 217.20, assuming a 10:1 exchange rate. I again confirm that a full and detailed report has been sent to "erly's" agent and we have never sent "erly" a nasty response. We apologise that this will have effected their stay with us and ask that if "erly" wishes to continue with this debate that it is done on a stictly factual basis. If there are any other issues/comments/suggestions from any guest please feel free to send it to me directly on [email protected]. Thanks for your time in sending it through.

I would also like to add for the benefit of regular safari goers in that vehicles, land rovers, have the single biggest impact on a conservation area and is one of the reasons why we charge such a premium for a private land rover as by discouraging private land rover usage we actually reduce the number of vehicles on safari which benefits the Reserve which is our goal and basis of everything we do at Lion Sands. We are always the visitors in this pristine safari area.