Help with safari accomodations
 

We will be going to South Africa in June 2006 and would like the best combination of two safari lodges. We want to spend three nights each and then four nights in Cape Town. We think we are narrowed down to Londolozi Bateleur, Dulini, Simbambili and Lions Sands River Lodge. We are not sure if these are the best for the dollar value or location. Any suggestions?

stru,

Also, keep in mind that June is very cold in the Sabi Sand. Those pretty plunge pools that you see at most of the lodges you mentioned will be nothing more than nice decorations on your deck.

Just for your information, although I have never personally visited, I do believe that Phinda (a CCAfrica camp)would be much warmer in June, if the cold weather will be an issue.

Rocco,
Thanks for getting back to me so quickly. We read that it would be cold, but we also understood there would be better game sightings, particularly on the river. We thought about Phinda, but were told that the air transportation from the Kruger area would be $650. Is it worth it to perhaps do one in Sabi Sands (which one- small and private) and then fly to Phinda and then Cape Town? We are so confused. Thanks for any help.

stru_lgr,

If you were to start in the Sabi Sand, stay three nights, fly to Cape Town for four nights and then fly to Phinda for three nights, it would be possible to hit each the Sabi Sand and Phinda for three nights each. However, this would be dependent on you arriving in South Africa in the morning so that you could get a connecting flight to Phinda.

I do think that if you are considering Phinda then you will be best off sticking to Londolozi Bateleur in order to qualify for a CCAfrica discount if booking direct with CCAfrica.

Also, if at all possible, I do think you would be much better off with 4 nights Londolozi, 4 nights Cape Town, 4 nights Phinda, for a total of 12 nights rather than 10 nights.

If you do end up choosing two lodges in the Sabi Sand, then I think Simbambili would be a fine choice for one of your lodges. I just stayed at Simbambili for three nights and thought it was fantastic.

Thanks Rocco, We have read some bad press on Phinda recently so I think it is out. We do like Londolozi Bateleur Camp and are interested in Simbambili also. We read that Dulini is very small and nice. We are unaware of the special with CCAfrica, but are very interested in that. Which two CCAfrica camps would you choose to get that special and how do I get it? Would there be any other specials I should be aware of ....mtbeds etc. If you were to choose between Simbambili and Dulini which would be your choice. I think Londzo is one of our choices so transportation between lodges will be a consideration. Are you aware that CCAfrica's contract with Londolozi is up in December and do you think it will be renewed and will it affect the quality if something goes bad with the contract? Thanks.

Stru_lgr,

We were in Sabi Sands at Londolozi about the second week of June this year, and the weather was wonderful. The early mornings are quite cool, and you would want a coat in the vehicle, but by about 9:00 am when you stop for tea, the temperature had warmed up and you could be in shirt sleeves or light sweater. The afternoons were warm and comfortable, not really plunge pool weather, but we did dangle our feet in. I would go back in June in a minute, so I think it just depends on the year.

We stayed at Londolozi Tree Camp and it's really small and intimate. Suites only at Tree Camp (all with private plunge pools), so no less expensive lodging there. The other 3 camps have both suites and chalets, and the chalets are less expensive. Only Bateleur Camp has private plunge pools at all the suites and all the chalets, so that's a plus to Bateleur, but Bateleur is also the largest camp.

I don't know where you heard the "bad press" about Phinda, as it has received good reveiws here on Fodors, especially Phinda Forest. And of course, there are also the new samller camps at Phinda: Vlei and Rock camps. The good thing about going to Phinda is that you would see a different environment than two camps at Sabi Sands.

CCAfrica had a previous discount of about 15 percent off the total if you satyed 6 nights or more at two of their camps in South Africa (and maybe Botswana and Zim). Then they started running their much better special where you get 4 nights for the price of three (on their website), but suppposed to expire at the end of this year. It would be great if they extend that special into next year, but I'm not sure if anyone knows about that yet. I do not believe that you need to book directly with CCAfrica to get the discounts, any of the good Africa travel agents that people on this website use can give you the discount. There are supposed to be direct air transfers between LZ and Phinda, but $650 per person for one way seems very high, are you sure that is correct, or maybe that meant getting from JNB to LZ and then on to Phinda.

Good luck making your choices and you are in for a great time.

Hi There

Have stayed at Londoz Tree, Dulini, Lion Sands River Lodge (of your choices) and have visited the other Londoz lodges. Best accommodation - definately Dulini, with Londoz tree next. For me Dulini was unbelievable - better than Londoz in my opinion, just thought that Londoz needs a bit of a revamp. Game viewing - all equal - you cannot beat the Sabi Sands. Service and Food - Lion Sands, Dulini, Londoz - was a little disapponted with Londoz service. Although Lion Sands is a wonderful place it is a little big for my taste (too many people) - I would return to Dulini in a heartbeat!!

Thanks for all your help. Now from the posts, I believe we are definitely going to Dulini. Now if you had to chose between Simbambili or Londolozi, what is going to compliment Dulini better. Of course if we can find any breaks in the prices we may stay with the same company. How do we get from Johannesberg to the lodges, to Cape Town and then back to Johannesberg to fly back home. Can we book those flights ourself or should we go with a travel agent? If we get a two lodge break from CCAfrica which two there? This is really helping us....thanks

I would NOT recommend spending 6 nights in the Sabi Sand. You will see pretty much the same game from each lodge. If I were in your position I would rather diversify the parks that I visited to experience a greater spectrum of game.

My suggestion is that you do three nights S/sands, whiichever lodge floats your boat, they all have some uniqunesses that diferentiate them.

Then I would take the 09h30 Fed air flight out and head to the Madikwe for the final three nights. They have a 12h00, or thereabouts, flight to the reserve and spend your last nights there.

The reserves are markedly different and have similar animals, however the Madikwe will offer you the chance of seeing game that you will not see in the S/Sands. Particularly Black Rhino, Wild Dog, Gemsbok, Eland and so on.

lodges abound in the Madikwe and like the Sands have their own identities etc. If budget is not an issue, you might consider Mateya Safari Lodge, just read a magnificent piece on it in Architectural Digest.

I stayed there last year and have to admit that it is the finest property I have stayed at!

If one is combining the Sabi Sand with Madikwe, then ccafrica is still a good option, as they have lodges in each location. Madikwe Safari Lodge & Londolozi. Madikwe would be worth it for the wild dogs alone, although I am sure there will be plenty of Big Five spottings, as well.

Thanks mkhonzo and Rocco
It sure makes sense to do Sabi Sand AND Madikwe. A couple of more questions. If I am flying into and out of Joberg what is the best order to do Sabi, Madikwe and Cape Town. In Sabi would you pick Simbambili or Dulini...I think we decided we would rather have small...but these are it seems in more crowded areas. I looked at Mateya and the have a great June-August savings. Would you stay at Mateya or Madikwe Safari Lodge? I am so glad there are people helping me. We kicked around a travel agent and in fact talked with one, but now I am wondering if I can't do this myself. Do you think I will get as good of prices and be able to handle booking the air? Thanks again.

Hello,

I've stayed at Londoz Bateleur and Londoz Tree, and visited Pioneer and Founders Camps. Londoz Tree is my favourite, with Bateleur a close second. FYI, CCAfrica's contract with Londoz has been renewed, so that need not be an issue for your booking.

I'd be very interested to know what sort of 'bad press' you've heard about Phinda, as I've heard nothing but good reviews.

Cold is all relative -- some of our thin-skinned friends from LA :S- might think 70F is cold, but to us Brits it's quite warm! Nights in the Sabi Sands in June don't usually drop below 50F and daytime temperatures ranged from mid-high 70s.

I must disagree with the statement that you will see the same game at all Sabi Sands lodges. Some lodges have higher resident populations of particular animals, or are known for sightings of particular species -- Londoz is known for leopard sightings, so this may be a factor in your choice if you really want to see these cats. I've stayed there several times and had absolutely brilliant leopard viewing. Guiding plays a key role in the quality of your experience, and in my opinion is far more important than posh accommodation -- the guides at Londoz are superb.

I think it is easily possible to spend a week in the Sabi Sands (especially if you split your time between lodges in different regions of the reserve). You might be interested in choosing a tented camp such as Ngala or Nottens as your second camp for a different experience.

If you do decide to go to another reserve, I would not recommend Madikwe. My last trip (June and July 2005) included four days at Madikwe, and after my experience there I won't be headed back any time soon. I think it's wonderful that derelict farmland is being returned to the wildlife, and I think it will be a great reserve in a couple of years.
However, I was really looking forward to Madikwe this year, and I have to admit that I was rather disappointed by my experience there. Don't get me wrong -- I think Madikwe will be a wonderful reserve in years to come. Phinda is a great example of what can happen when a reserve is created out of former farmland. But IMO, Madikwe just isn't quite there yet.

When you're on a game drive at Madikwe, there are constant reminders that it's not really the bush -- telephone wires overhead, telephone poles on the tracks, and you're constantly running into the fences. The animals (particularly the wild dogs) have learned to use the fences in their hunts, so if you find the dogs it's very likely to be against the fence with buses and lorries rumbling by less than 100 feet away. The reserve is small, and this is what makes the fences so intrusive.

The game was very thin on the ground when I was there, and many of the animals were not very relaxed (particularly the elephants, many of whom are from an area where poaching was a big problem). Seeing anything other than antelope was pretty rare, and there were long stretches of time when we didn’t see anything (not even an impala). The night drives were particularly non-productive – we basically only saw scrub hares, and them very rarely.

If you are concerned about cold weather, then DO NOT go to Madikwe during the African winter -- it went down below freezing on many nights, and we had to bundle up with gloves, scarves, and every available layer of clothing (plus extra blankets and hot water bottles) to do the morning drives. It was so cold that I briefly contemplated not going on the morning drives at all -- and normally nothing can keep me away from a game drive! If you do go, be prepared -- bring serious winter clothing. The staff at the lodge said this was normal weather for Madikwe at that time of year. The summers there are scorching, so many of the lodges are designed to be cool -- probably great in summer, but pretty chilly in winter even with the fireplace in my suite stuffed full of wood.

Despite the frustrating aspects of my stay at Madikwe, I did have some good sightings. Highlights were seeing a pride of pale Kalahari lions, including two huge black-maned males; two young male giraffe sparring; black-backed jackals hunting; a lioness chasing a jackal; an elephant calf nursing; a female cheetah resting by a waterhole (though she was so far that it was a binocs-only viewing, not a photographic one unless you had a 600mm+ zoom lens handy). However, I did have my best sighting of wild dogs thus far on my last game drive here.

Cheers,
Julian

To answer your questions;
Air routing.
Johannesburg is in the center of all three destinations effectively becoming the hub for your trip. So you can tackle that any which way you choose.

I do believe that nationwide ran a flight from Sun City to Cape Town at certain times of the week. If that is still operating you might consider heading to Cape Town after the Madikwe experience. By doing this you should look at doing the Sabi Sands first.

Alternately, you could do Cape Town first, then fly (midday) Cape Town to Kruger Mpumalanga International, flight gets in around 13h00, road transfer to your lodge will be another 2 hours or so, getting you into the lodge just before the evening game drive. Finish up with an early flight to JNB and onward to Madikwe.

BTW: The flight to KMIA is either with SA Air Link or SA Express or SAA, perhaps Kulula.com (SA's equal to South West) And I think Nationwide has frequency: Some of these flights stop in JNB, so check that out first.

As I posted earlier, I have stayed at Mateya and recommend it. It is a small intimate camp of only five HUGE suites. I believe that the CCA property is close to forty beds. So if you don't like crowds, give that a miss.

I honestly do not think you can go wrong with the game viewing in the Sabi Sands. The game abounds and there is no migration. I disagree that certain areas have higher densities of species. This is merely individual companies marketing strategies, that entice you to believe certain things. A pride of lions move great distances and when they pass through the leopards pass out!

The Madikwe is indeed an old farm, however so is the sabi sand, read up on Kirkman and his cronies and you'll understand that they hammered the lion to save the cattle that pretty much destroyed that environment in the arly 1900's. THe Madikwe has remarkable game, which is doing very well. I was most impressed with what I saw and the style in which I saw it from Mateya.

Hi there

My suggestion for what it is worth would be the following: 3 nights Dulini and 3 nights Londoz Tree - you won't get much better than that. Stick to the Sabi Sands. These two lodges are in different sectors of the reserve so you won't be seeing the same terrain and definately won't be seeing the same animals - in my opinion, it is a no brainer - Sabi Sands all the way....

Bushmad,

That sounds like a great combination if it is within the budget. If not, Mala Mala Ratray's is supposed to open soon and would be a very good alternative to Londo Tree. It is my understanding that Ratray's will be just as nice as Londo Tree but will only be $750 per person.

http://www.malamala.com/Rattrays.htm

I must say, I honestly do not like the way that Ratrays looks. Reminds me too much of Chichele Presidential Lodge in South Luangwa, which was great but did not really feel like I was on safari once inside the room.

Also, what is up with the golf carts for people who are too lazy to walk back to their rooms?

Never mind what I said about Ratrays. Dulini, even though it is in a much smaller reserve, looks much nicer. If Londo Tree is too much, then Simbambili would be a great complement to Dulini.

Hello,

I agree with Rocco -- in my opinion, Rattrays looks way too much like a standard African-theme five-star hotel, not a safari camp. I definitely wouldn't choose it over Londoz Tree, which is very posh but still feels like a safari camp.

Cheers,
Julian

Rocco,
If you are still monitoring this I hope you don't mind if I throw you a wild one here. I was reading some of your earlier posts and came across your "Zambia and the Sabi Sand are definitely apples and oranges" post. Now I am confused again. My husband and I had ruled out the rest of Africa because of fear of unrest and safety....Now that you have told us about Zambia I am interested. Is it safe and if so, how reasonable would it be to spend 3 or 4 days at a lodge there (which one?) and then 3 days in Sabi....????? If this is not feasible, then I think you have helped us to decide on Simbambili, Dulini and Cape Town. Thanks for all your help.

Stru_lgr,

I would not recommend only 3 or 4 nights in Zambia, unless it was an add-on to an intended visit of Victoria Falls.

However, I would strongly advise you to consider spending your ENTIRE safari in Zambia, with possibly 4 nights in South Luangwa and 3 or 4 nights in Lower Zambezi. I have been to the Sabi Sand three times and I have been to Zambia three times, and I would choose Zambia without hesitation over the Sabi Sand.

In Zambia you will probably not have the opportunity for close up and prolonged viewing of leopards and you will not see rhinos, but what you will gain by going to Zambia is well worth it.

There is such a diversity of wildlife in Zambia and the overall numbers are stronger than in the Sabi Sand, especially in South Luangwa. What I mean is, while I had a fantastic time at Simbambili last month (Sabi Sand), there are stretches where you see very little. Yes, you will see the Big Five, but you will not see 1/2 as many varieties of birds, you will not see 1/3 as many elephants, you will not see any crocodiles and very few hippos in the Sabi Sand and you will likely pay much more for a luxury lodge in the Sabi Sand than in Zambia.

If I were to suggest a perfect 7 or 8 night itinerary, it would be the following:

Luangwa River Lodge, South Luangwa (4)
Chiawa Camp or Chongwe River Camp, Lower Zambezi (4) or 3 nights if you are pressed for time

www.luangwariverlodge.com
www.chiawa.com
www.chongwe0-river.com

Just have a look at this latest update on Chiawa's website!

http://www.chiawa.com/pages/newsltr.htm

There is just so much more you can do while on safari in Zambia than in the Sabi Sand. 3 - 4 hour bush walks with armed guide, fishing for the razor toothed Tiger Fish, gameviewing boat cruises on the Zambezi River, canoeing, morning and night game drives.

It is my experience, especially in Lower Zambezi, that three activities per day are possible.

While it would be cold in the Lower Zambezi at night, the daytime weather will be very nice. South Luangwa, on the other hand, is far enough north that even nights will be moderate, probably in the high 50's to low 60's farenheit.

I do think you have a little time before you need to book as June is low season for the Sabi Sand and it is just the beginning of high season for Zambia. Therefore, I suggest you wait a couple weeks and research Zambia a bit more to see if you think it would be a good fit. A fellow Fodorite, "matnikstym" (Dennis), just left for a safari that includes each Chongwe River Camp and Luangwa River Lodge.

Personally, I think that Luangwa River Lodge and Chongwe River Camp are in a very exclusive category of lodges. Chongwe River Camp is not overly fancy, but its location is awesome as is the layout of the camp. The same could be said for Chiawa, but Chiawa enjoys an even better position within the national park.

Just to give you an idea of the costs, Luangwa River Lodge is going to be about $385 per person per night sharing for high season 2006, while Chongwe River Camp will likely be around $325 per person per night sharing and Chiawa will probably run about $475 per person per night sharing.

In comparison, unless you are able to somehow get a huge discount off of Dulini or Londo Bateleur, I am guessing that a three night stay would average anywhere from about $650 - %750 per person per night.

In case you have not seen them yet, please feel free to have a look at my photos from my safari completed last month. While you will see many beautiful leopard photos from my time in the Sabi Sand, most of the bird photos, lion photos, crocodile photos, hippo photos and elephant photos were mostly from Zambia. However, that is not to say that there are not leopards in Zambia. As a matter of fact, Zambia has more leopards than any other country and they were easily found in South Luangwa, especially. The only live kill that I witnessed on this last safari was while staying at Luangwa River Lodge and tracking a male leopard as he killed a small puku and quickly dragged it up a tree just before five hyenas were on the scene.

Lastly, you don't know how magical it is to be serenaded to sleep each night by snorting hippos, to have lions roaring nearby and to just hear wildlife sounds that you cannot even identify. These are the sounds of a Zambian safari, especially when you are right on the Zambezi River as you would be at Chiawa or Chongwe in a luxury tent. Those are the sounds that occur in my dreams and no matter how nice it is to see the Big Five in the Sabi Sand, it is no substitute for the experience of a Zambian safari.

To get to Cape Town after Zambia, you would fly from either South Luangwa or Lower Zambezi to Lusaka, onto Joburg and into Cape Town by about 8PM that night.

Zambia is perfectly safe, at least as safe, in my opinion, as South Africa.

For my idea of a heavenly itinerary:

Luangwa River Lodge, South Luangwa (4)
Chiawa or Chongwe, Lower Zambezi (4)
Twelve Apostles, Cape Town (4)

And finally my photos (copy and paste)

http://www.kodakgallery.com/rocco/zambia___south_africa

The above is 500+ unedited photos but is a very comprehensive picture of my safari.

Below, I have about 140 of my favorite photos, many of them edited through Photoshop Elements to maximize the quality.

http://www.kodakgallery.com/rocco/2005_favorites

Correction...the website for Chongwe River Camp is:

www.chongwe-river.com

Although it looks basic, it is anything but basic. This is honestly the only time that I really did not want to leave, despite the fact that I had two other luxury lodges/camps lined up afterward. I could honestly come back and spend an entire week at Chongwe River Camp, and really, I don't think that would be such a bad idea for someone with only a week available.

The website, unfortunately, does not share the magic that I found at Chongwe River Camp. Anyway, just wanted to share the correct website address, but the memories of Chongwe River Camp are all flooding back! :)

Oh my God Rocco....your description of Zambia is incredible and thank you so much for sharing your pictures...couldn't help a sneak peak at your dogs...ahhhhhh...love animals of all kinds. The idea of canoeing (with crocks????) sounds awesome. We have fed the sharks in the South Pacific and hiked the jungles of Costa Rica and kayaked with whales in Vancouver, (even if we are oldies...60ish)so you have really gotour attention now....NOW we are debating dumping Cape Town and doing Zambia and Sabi....your itinerary, but replacing Cape Town with Sambambili or Dulini...what do ya think?

I'll be in JNB for a short business trip in three weeks. Can anyone provide suggestions for a 3-4 day extension? Safari from Jberg? CapeTown?

Help!

Rocco,
After sleeping on it, my husband and I are now wondering if we should go to South Africa at all. It we were going to pick another lodge in Zambia....what do ya think? And do you think we should skip Sabi Sands? Thanks.....

Stru_lgr,

I think a combination of Livingstone, South Luangwa and the Lower Zambezi would be best. Working with your original 10 nights, I would suggest the following:

Royal Livingstone, Victoria Falls (Zambia), 2 nights

http://www.sun-international.com/resorts/thefalls/

Luangwa River Lodge, South Luangwa, 4 nights

www.luangwariverlodge.com

Chiawa Camp OR Chongwe River Camp, 4 nights, depending on your budget. Chiawa will be about $475 pp per night and be inside the park, while Chongwe will be about $325 pp per night and be just outside the park but in an awesome area.

www.chiawa.com
www.chongwe-river.com

Some would suggest finishing with Victoria Falls, but I am suggesting that you start with Victoria Falls so you can get over any jet lag you suffer. It is hard to get over jet lag when you are being awakened at 5:30AM for game drives!

In your limited time, I would not try to force in a third lodge. I think the magnificence of Victoria Falls would be the best option. With two nights there, you will be able to get in a full day of activities, whether it is to go on an elephant back ride, white water rafting, microlighting over the falls or whatever.

Trust me, you would not come home disappointed if you spent all of your time in Zambia. June is not the best time for Cape Town anyway and the amount of money you save by going to Zambia instead of South Africa will be a good start on your savings for your next trip! :)

stru_lgr,

And just one other option in case you wanted to stretch your trip a little. Kafunta in South Luangwa is another option. While they are not nearly as luxurious as Luangwa River Lodge, they do enjoy an excellent location and I think you would love their natural hot spring jacuzzi on a cool June night.

The main reason, however, why I would suggest Kafunta is that they have both a 5 night and a 7 night package that combines their two camps. Kafunta River Lodge is their main camp but then they also have Kafunta Island Bush Camp which I absolutely loved. It is possibly the most remotely located camp in South Luangwa and it is primarily for walking safaris.

The 5 night package is 2 nights at the main lodge, 2 nights at Island Bush Camp and then 1 night at the main lodge. It is about a three hour transfer between camps.

The seven night package is 2 at the main camp, 3 at Island Bush Camp and 2 back at the main camp. This would be my choice providing it did not cost me my time in the Lower Zambezi.

http://www.luangwa.com/bushexperience.htm

It is only $1240 per person for the 5 night package (less than $250 per person per night in HIGH SEASON) and it is $1740 per person for the 7 night package. You would easily spend $1740 per person for just 3 nights in South Africa at the lodges you previously mentioned so it is a great value at Kafunta and in Zambia in general.

Hi Rocco,
Is Victoria Falls like Niagra Falls....yuk...people, people everywhere....It sounds like a plan to recover from jet lag, just concerned about "tourist traps". What can we do there? Will we need a car? Is Kafunta very rustic?....if we do 4 and 4 we do have time...we are teachers, but can we add another five days of getting up at 5 am and seeing animals without being bored or fatigued? Is Chiawa worth the extra cash? Is Luangwa a very busy lodge, you commented it was a busier place I think. Thanks for the advice, again. We are very appreciative of the time you are spending with us. Oh, on one of your threads you were talking about a place called Mombo? Is it a good place?

stru_lgr,

I visited Victoria Falls in March 2002. My wife and I (along with our guide) spent a couple hours in the park on the Zimbabwe side of the falls. During those two hours, I think we came across only two other groupls, each with three people. Not too bad, seeing one of the Seven Natural Wonders Of The World and only coming across six other people, huh?

Kafunta, while not as luxurious as Puku Ridge or Luangwa River Lodge, is still pretty nice. I consider it possibly the best value for high season lodging in South Luangwa.

Luangwa River Lodge was not busy during my stay. We had the lodge to ourselves the first couple nights and then there was another guest that arrived on our final day. It is the most luxurious lodge that I have yet seen in Zambia. Furthermore, the owners, Barry & Tara, a 32 year old couple, he from England, she from South Africa, personally run the lodge. The hosting, food and accomodations are second to none in Zambia. Also, the lead guide, Victor, is excellent.

As far as Mombo goes, it is reputed to be the best safari camp in the world. However, the best does carry a hefty price tag...$1,200 per person per night no matter what time of year you visit. It is definitely on my list of places I want to visit, but up until now it has been out of my budget. Hopefully next time I am in Southern Africa I will be able to stay 3 or 4 nights at Mombo.

Another interesting itinerary that I personally like is one offered by Kafunta that combines Kafunta River Lodge, Kafunta Island Bush Camp and a visit to North Luangwa National Park at a place called Buffalo Camp. North Luangwa is one of the most exclusive safari experiences possible, with only about 30 beds split between three camps in a park that is six times the size of the Sabi Sand Game Reserve in South Africa. In comparison, the Sabi Sand has about twenty five lodges and possibly 500 beds, which is about 17 times the amount of concentration.

Here is the itinerary:

http://www.luangwa.com/nsluangwa.htm

North Luangwa is primarily for walking safaris but there are also limited game drives. Imagine being out there with your armed guard and tracking lions on foot! :)

Plus, I really like the whole overland aspect of this itinerary. Most people that come to Africa on a photosafari never stray more than a few miles from their camp and, as a result, don't end up seeing much of Africa.

One other option that I see for you would be to fly in and out of Lusaka, avoiding South Africa completely. This would work great if you are considering forgoing Cape Town, as you would save a minimum of four hours in each direction by avoiding Joburg. Otherwise, you are flying right past Zambia, only to arrive in Joburg, wait a couple hours for your connecting flight and then turn right around and fly two hours north back to Zambia! :(

If you did go straight to Lusaka, it would be on a British Airways flight from London. You would more than likely need to spend your final night in Lusaka, but I personally enjoyed Lusaka and had a nice night out on the town, you could say, with my wife. We stayed at the Inter-Continental Lusaka, visited their jewelery store, had a luxury SUV transport us from the hotel to the factory of the jewelery store, I bought my wife a beautiful Emerald ring surrounded with diamonds and then our jeweler ended up suggesting a nice place for us to enjoy dinner and personally took us there. Take a look at my photos from Lusaka:

(copy and paste this, and then follow the next six or seven photos)

http://www.kodakgallery.com/PhotoVie...vfolderid=2005

While it is not a beautiful city or one that you would even walk around at night, it is a great way to end your safari and get cleaned up before making the journey home. Doesn't hurt to come away with an Emerald either! Just the money that you save by going to Zambia instead of the Sabi Sand will be enough to get you a very impressive piece of jewelery, for sure! :)

So, if you were to arrive in Lusaka, you would likely be arriving in the morning and then hop right on a connecting flight to either Lower Zambezi (25 minutes away) or South Luangwa (75 minutes away). If you are starting from the USA, you may elect to spend a night or two in London to make the transition easier, otherwise you may suffer from jet lag for the first couple nights in Africa.

Chongwe River Camp or Chiawa??? That is a tough one. I loved Chongwe River Camp and at about $325 per person per night next year it will be one of the best values in Africa. The camp itself is amazing. The only downside is that the game drives seem to mostly take you an hour into the park near Chiawa. While it is a lovely drive, for the first 30 minutes, the land based gameviewing is not as intense as it is around Chiawa. However, for $150 per person per night less, this may be an inconvenience worth enduring. That is up to each individual to decide.

As far as the water based activities go, I see no advantage to being within the park to being outside the park.

Hopefully on MY next visit, I will have enough time to visit each Chongwe AND Chiawa.

Anyway, take a look at my photos and consider my suggested itineraries and let me know what you think. Zambia would be an incredible way to first discover Africa! :)

Rocco
I couldn't get into your photo. Could you please post the site again. Thanks.

stru_lgr,

Try this link, it will be easier:

http://www.kodakgallery.com/rocco/zambia___south_africa

Lusaka starts on photo #342 and ends on about #349.

Once the photo album loads, it is possible to skip the other photos by scrolling down and seeing all the miniature sized photos.

Hi Rocco, I think we are getting close thanks to you. We are going to see about flying into Lusaka. Going to Livingston for a few nights. I guess the Royal Livingston is the best in your opinion? Then Luangwa River Lodge, Chiawa and then we are confused whether to go to Chongwe or Kafunta. If we go to Kafunta would we be okay just staying at the lodge or should we go to the bush camp? Thanks so much for everything. We still are wondering if we are missing out by skipping Simbambili, but you are right it is dumb to go to Joberg, fly to Sim and pay so much more for a commercial situation. If you could address these last few things I think we are ready to book our vacation.....yeaaaaa

stru_lgr,

My final suggestion would be to do this:

Royal Livingstone (2)
Chongwe or Chiawa (4)
Kafunta River Lodge/Kafunta Island Bush Camp package (5)
Luangwa River Lodge (3)

I would recommend doing the five night package at Kafunta, but would modify it so that you spend your first three nights at Kafunta River Lodge, and your final two nights at Kafunta Island Bush Camp. This works in your case because you would be adding Luangwa River Lodge at the end. Otherwise, if you ended with Island Bush Camp, you would be too far away to catch a transfer out of South Luangwa, but in this case you should be to Luangwa River Lodge by about 2PM, which is perfect.

I suggest you e-mail if you have any questions and I would be most happy to help.

By the way, I do think that Kafunta Island Bush Camp is an exceptional experience and I would not miss it. Again, it is possibly in the most isolated part of the park, about three hours south from where the majority of the lodges are located. With a capacity for only six guests, you are sure to have a very exclusive experience. My wife and I were the only guests during our visit, yet we had about six staff members there just to look after us! :)

Stu- Kenya Airways flies to Lusaka from London thru Nairobi. I learned of this on this forum, and was able to get "reasonable" flights on my own thru Expedia and then Kenya Airways directly. Although if you're going to the Falls, this may be moot and others may have better suggestions. Just FWIW!
Sharon

Sorry - I guess that's STRU: I meant to add that I believe the flight on Kenya airways, while not direct, is less expensive than the BA flight. If money isn't an issue, then do your thing! I noticed that you also asked about Vic Falls, and whether it is touristy. If may share my own perspective, I decided ultimately to give Vic Falls a miss for this, my first trip to Africa. I would love to see the falls, but for me, coming to Africa was about being in the bush and seeing wildlife. So I'd urge you to search your own heart, and if you want to see the falls, great. But just because a lot of people go there, doesn't mean it's right for you. Just my 2 pennies worth! Have fun with your planning!
Sharon

Hi Stru,

If you haven't booked yet, you might want to drop an email to Rocco -- he's helped many Fodorites, including me and Cooncat, get great deals on safaris to Zambia.

If you can manage an extra couple of days (like Rocco did with his trip this year), I'd suggest adding a couple of days in the Sabi Sands at the end of your trip -- it's not as remote as Zambia, but the game viewing is spectacular.

Cheers,
Julian

Wow - I didn't realize that this thread had taken a Zambian turn!

I have to second Julian's comments about Sabi Sands. (Amazing gameviewing with a good chance of seeing the Big 5, lacks the remoteness of Zambia).

Rocco - an update on the Kafunta Island Bush Camp. When they rebuilt it this year, they build 5 chalets... technically big enough for 10 people, but they max out the camp at 8 (as the guide can take a maximum of 8 guests).

Stru - I'm not sure where your thoughts are on the itinerary at the moment, but I thought I'd toss in my two cents as well.... I was at Kafunta Game Lodge, Island Bush Camp and Chongwe in August this year and would be happy to answer any questions you might have.

First Rocco,
I can't thank you enough. Now after the last two posts, I am wondering about Vic Falls and Sabi again... Or just more time in Sambia...I can't find any accomodations I like in Livingston that are reasonable and if I have the money to spend maybe Sim or more time in Zam would be the ticket. If I go straight to Zambia would I need to spend a night in Lusaka before I headed to a lodge? I will check how much it would be to go to Sim as a side jaunt, but I really think for the several thousand it would take for the flight and the lodge, my $s might be better spent in Zambia..

Dreaming: Did you think Kafunta and Bush were very rustic accomodation and food wise...I don't need luxury, but Bucket Water???? Also, did you Chongwe as much as Rocco. How many days did you spend at each and how did you fly in and out? Did you spend any nights elsewhere? We are thinking about Rocco's itinerary with or without vic falls....any thoughts?

Cooncat: Thanks so much for your input. Everything is so hopeful. We kinda were thinking the same about Vic Falls, but liked Rocco's idea about catching up on the jet lag before we hit the safaris. Any thoughts on that and perhaps an alternative. I like you flight plans...but I think we will be using frequent flyer points for one of our flights and I am not sure they will do that, but I will try....thanks...If I can save money, I can see more Africa....You guys are all so nice...thanks.

I envy all of you with your frequent flyer miles! I used mine up last year going to the Caribbean, not dreaming of this trip....Stru - I've never been to Africa so you have to take my input in the spirit of someone who just wnet thru the whole planning process. I would love to see the falls, dobn't get me wrong. I'm sure they're stunning and going in May and June as I am, they probably would be going really strong. But as a solo traveler, i didn't want to be stuck in a modern hotel by myself on my last night or two in Africa. I thought hanging out by a fire with other Africa-nuts would be more fun! As for the flights - I am pushing straight through to my first camp. I'll be beat, but I wanted to avoid the hassle of spending one night in Lusaka, when I'll be maybe only and hour or a bit more from my first camp. I'll sleep there, if need be! again, good luck! Lots of more experienced folks on this board than me!! :-D

Stur - I didn't think that Kafunta Game Lodge or Island Bush camp were all that rustic for food - moussaka, chicken curry, three bean salad, etc. As you might expect, the food at Island Bush Camp was slightly more basic.

Kafunta isn't that rustic for accomodation either. I've got some photos of the accomodations - Try this link: http://www.kodakgallery.com/ShareLan...share&Ux=0

Kafunta accomodation photos should be #41 - 44.

Island Bush camp is fairly rustic - photos 87 - 93. There is a photo of the bucket shower as seen from outside. The bucket shower really wasn't a problem at all - just have to conserve so that you don't run out mid-shower. And they bring you heated water in the morning.

My trip was:
Cape Town (3)
JNB Airport Hotel (1)
Kafunta Lodge & Island Bush Camp (3/2) - this was the five night package Rocco mentioned.
Jo'burg (1)

I flew into JNB then on to Cape Town. Back to JNB just for the night. JNB to Lusaka to Mfuwe, then Mfuwe to Lusaka to Lower Zambezi. Then LZ to Lusaka and back to JNB.

I didn't go to Vic Falls on this trip, I've been there several times before and decided to not go this time.... However, I'm one of the people who loves Vic Falls, so I can't really help with that decision.

I did like Chongwe a lot.... maybe not as high on my list as Rocco's. Of course, my favorite lodge so far has been Island Bush Camp, bucket shower and all!

Chongwe is in a beautiful location, nice people, wonderful open air bathrooms and a neighborhood elephant! The two guides I had, John and George, were really good. It was a little chaotic for activities while I was there, but other people's trip reports haven't reflected the same issues I had.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Julian,

Thanks for the kind words.

While I do agree that the Sabi Sands is a lot of fun, for a short visit the costs due tend to mount up quickly as they did for my short 3 night stay in the Sabi Sand last month.

For example, a flight from Joburg to KMIA is about $375pp. Next, the road or light air transfer to whatever game lodge is about $250pp. That is $625pp just to get there.

Next, for the game lodges that Stru_lgr was interested in, the average cost is probably about $675pp per night sharing. For a three night stay at a Dulini or Bateleur, the costs are $2,025pp + $625 for the transfers from Joburg. Plus add in another flight from Lusaka to Joburg for about $375pp and now a person is facing $3,000pp to combine a Zambian safari with a Sabi Sand safari. $6,000 total for a 3 night stay and this is not even for the very top lodges.

Meanwhile, how far will $6,000 go in Zambia for a 2006 high season safari???

Lusaka - Mfuwe = $300pp roundtrip
Lusaka - Lower Zambezi = $200pp r/t
Kafunta 5 night package = $1,240pp
Chongwe 4 night stay = $1,300pp (I am estimating $325 per night although it was only $285 pppns in 2005 high season)

Total 9 night Zambian safari = $3,040pp = $6,080 USD

9 nights in Zambia for the price of 3 nights in the Sabi Sand.

Add in a r/t flight from Lusaka to Livingstone and 2 nights at the Royal Livingstone for about $550pp and there is an entire 11 night luxury Zambian safari and Victoria Falls visit for about $7,180 USD total.

A couple nights at Luangwa River Lodge would just be icing on the cake and would add about $800pp, for a total
of $8,780 for the following itinerary:

Royal Livingstone, Victoria Falls (2)
Kafunta River Lodge (3)
Kafunta Island Bush Camp (2)
Luangwa River Lodge (2)
Chongwe River Camp (4)

What it works out to is a mere $675 per night for a high season safari in some great camps/lodges. The only additional charges would be the international flights.

Although I enjoy the Sabi Sand, given the cost to get there from Joburg, I don't know if I would go again unless I was planning on spending at least six nights there. And as a point of reference it as much or more for six nights in the Sabi Sand as it is for the 13 night Zambian itinerary I mentioned above.