Greystoke Mahale Quote... Ouch!!
 

Wow, I just the quote from my TA for a three night trip to Greystoke and it is $7,680 for the two of us. I knew that this was going to be expensive, but that seems like a lot!

For those who have been, is it worth it? Also, it looks like chimp permits may be introduced soon, which may mean only one trek during our 3 days. Would that dissuade you?

I would only stay one night if I could only trek once -- what do they expect you to do for the other two days? Seems like a lot of money to spend on a lakeshore beach -- you could do the same in Malawi on a much nicer lake, with a wider variety of fish.

Are you using an TA who specializes in Africa? If not, get a quote from someone who specializes. If yes, why not get a quote from another tour operator for comparison.

From where are you flying to/from Mahale? Dar, Arusha, from northern Serengeti via Arusha?

At almost $1,300/person/nt is not all your room/board... flights are in there somewhere.

And, when is traveled planned? Month, year?

I stayed two nights in Mahale a few years back. It wasn't cheap then either and a third night we spent in Kigoma. I must say that it is one of the most magical places in Africa that I've been. There were no limits in terms of permits then but we had one day of chimp trekking because of our schedule but ended up spending several hours following them through the forest. For a while they hunted for red colobus monkeys but weren't successful (sort of a half-hearted attempt) other times grooming and then the hooting would set off...No question it's high end though...I mean you fly in and land on this short strip between the lakeshore and the mountains...get on an Arab dhow and go a couple hours south where the jungle comes down from the mountains to the shore...really is Tarzan's Africa. It is an exclusive place. It is very out of the way...far from the more accessible Gombe Stream. I believe Bill Gates was there as well (not that that should impress, but hey, it can't be shabby if that guy shows up)...if you totaled the guests per year since the camp has been open, you'd be going to a place only a couple thousand people have ever seen. Japanese researchers have been there for a couple decades though. Roland Purcell is just the type of adventurer that would set up an exclusive camp in the middle of nowhere...flys a plane as well (we were able to hitch onto a plane out of Arusha that was to pickup a group staying at Mahale (that made it cheaper) then we flew commercial AirTanzania out of Kigoma to cut costs....that was a bit harry but we were determined. Roland flew us to Kigoma on the small plane. I haven't been to Malawi yet (leaving in a week and a half) but the lakeshore is crystal clear. It is a very romantic spot as well...to be truthful...it's not anymore expensive in Botswana at Mombo and some of the other high end camps...true?

Thanks for all of the replies thus far. Our travel agent does specialize in Africa and we had great success with them this year in Southern Africa. I am interested in getting another quote...I just feel a little disloyal checking out another agent (and I'm not sure who to even call!) Any suggestions?

The quote does include air, which makes up the majority of the cost. The quote is for June 2008 and is for shared charters departing from the Northern Serengeti and returning to Arusha.

And to be honest, I'm pretty sure that we paid this much for Jao and King's Pool in Botswana...so maybe I'm just overreacting seeing it broken apart from the rest of the trip.

I think part of the problem is that I am feeling overwhelmed with the decision making and planning process. The planning so far has been much trickier than our last trip!

Personally, I think it is worth it if you can afford it. (Jao and Kings Pool-type prices) It was really unlike anyplace else I've been in Africa. I would try to get two chimp treks in there but you'll want to get out on the lake as well and experience that too. The surruondings are surreal...

You can see the 2008 rack rates for the lodge, park fees and flights here. And pictures:

http://www.go-safari.com/Mahale/Greystoke.htm

The Serengeti pickup is about $250 pp extra.

If you add it all up - well over $7000 for two!

Worth it? Yes, IMO.

uscmolly: I am taking a group to Greystoke in February and it is about $3,000 pp for 3 night trip so your quote is a bit higher but in a rough ball park. The air is a killer at over $900 per person despite it being the regular twice a week circuit flight through western Tanzania. Our flight is to and from Arusha so that may be a good part of the price difference, also with the size of the group I believe our booking has less mark up on it.

climbhigh beat me to it. The premium for the Serengeti pick up is a big part of the price difference so your quote should be reasonable.

I am going to Mahale this Sept/Oct., but staying at Nkungwe. However, I believe Greystoke costs approx. $700/pp/night, give or take a few bucks, which includes park fees and the transfer boat ride, but the only thing I know is '07 prices, '08 will surely be higher. The flight from KIA or Arusha to Mahale is about $625 one way/pp. You might be paying a bit more for that Northern airstrip departure.Those are rough but pretty close numbers. So your '08 numbers are about $800-$900 more, most of which could be the normal price increase plus transfers in Arusha, etc.? As far as if it is worth it, I can't tell you until October!!

Well at the very least, I know the price is relatively accurate. Just so hard to "quantify" an unknown, intangible experience (if you even can!). When we took our first safari trip this year, I thought I had lost my mind spending that much on a vacation. BUT, after coming back...it was worth every penny. Ah, decisions, decisions!

oops, looks like the hard numbers are already out. Just so many helpful people around!!

I'm always looking for ways to defeat these outrageous transfer prices. Is it possible to fly scheduled flight to Kigoma, and then take ferry to Mahale. It would be longer, but a lot more fun. Or can you take boat from Burundi? You can see chimps at Kibale in Uganda for a lot less than Mahale.

Originally, we were contemplating going via Kigoma, as we have friends who live there we'd like to visit. But I had read the boat trip to Mahale is 10 hours! Seems like a lot of precious time to waste.

Does anyone know more about this option? I think the air to Kigoma from DAR is very reasonable.

They used to (early days of the camp) fudge a bit and shave a little time off how long of a trip down the lakeshore from Kigoma (to get initial clients to come)...I can't recall the exact number of hours but by speed boat it is rough and long...As I mentioned Roland using his small plane flew us up to Kigoma from the small air strip nearest Mahale and that saved some $$...AirTanzania was a bit scary I must say. They had oversold one of the flights (we landed in Dadoma? and one other place on the way back to Dar...) and one of the times it took an eternity to lift off from the ground...I imagined we were about out of runway but no one seemed concerned lol...

Just saw your last post---I would see if Roland/Greystoke cound pick up and drop off from Kigoma...might be a good bit cheaper. He did that on one of our legs and it saved us $$. That was five years ago or so, so he may not do that anymore, I don't know. My TA was the one that arranged it...I was telling her to get us to Mahale but do it as cost effective as possible.

Sorry for the multiple posts...the boat trip IS too long...I believe 10+ hours by speed boat which would be a rough ride...the dhow ride from the Mahale airstrip (nearest airstrip) took an hour and a half or two and was quite leisurely...we took a small motor boat back to the airstrip which was faster but sloshier with water splashing in...As you can tell by the map...L. Tanganyika is a very loooong lake...I would not recommend boating from Kigoma...the short hop by air would be fine if they'll agree to it which is what we did.

I think DAR-Kigoma roundtrip is around $450pp and northern Serengeti to DAR one way would run approx $400pp plus you'd still need roundtrip transfers between Kigoma and the camp and any possible overnights if you can't connect same day. Someone please correct me if those figures are off.

We were there 2 years ago.We swallowed hard and paid.It was one of the highlights of our traveling life-highly recommended. I hope this helps.

Flycatcher Safaris offers a 8-day Katavi/Mahale package for US$ 3300 pp. Accommodation is in their own mobile camps - not luxury but comfortable. Rate includes flights to/from Arusha and all park fees.

Sounds a little bit different, doesn't it?

www.flycat.com/en/safari.html

I actually wanted to use flycatcher in some parks, but after getting a response to my initial query, I never heard from them again even though I repeatedly tried to contact them. Not sure the status of that group, so be careful.

Don't know anything about Flycatcher, but I can second what everyone says about Roland Purcell's camps -- Greystoke in Mahale and Chada in Katavi.

I have been to both and there are not enough superlatives to describe them. I presume you have to go in the right season, but if you do, they are truly two wonderful experiences.

The chimps in Mahale, combined with Greystoke camp, add up to a magical, dreamlike place. Then Chada camp in Katavi, one of the classic safari camps, is just as fantastic. Everyone must experience fly-camping once in their life!!!! If you are going to Chada, sign up in advance for one night of fly-camping and experience what it is like falling asleep under the stars as you hear all sorts of animals all around you.

Katavi and Mahale are often combined in itineraries, since they are so close to each other, and this somewhat lessens the sting of the cost of getting to just one or the other.

uscmolly, you did not mention if you were going to Katavi as well. If you can, I would definitely recommend it. Even if you are not, you will thoroughly enjoy and never forget your time at Greystoke. If you can afford it, in my opinion it is worth it .

All of that said, I would hate to hear that you get less than one chimp trek per full day. The reason for going to Mahale is the chimps. We went for four nights days and were lucky to get four treks. Depending on your arrival and departure times, you may only get one trek for each full day you are there. (Try if you can to arrive in the morning and leave in the afternoon, increasing your chance of getting another trek on your first or last day.) My impression of the place would drop a lot if you got less treks than one per every full day you are there, and it would definitely dissuade me from staying more than two nights if I could only get one trek to see the chimps.

We are doing the alternative and cheaper Katavi Mahale in September this uses Katuma in Katavi and Nkungwe in Mahale for 4 nights in Katavi and 3 in Mahale the per person cost is $5086.
On this basis I would presume that 3 nights at Nkungwe would be a lot cheaper, even given the excessive cost of the flights. My travel agent is
africanencounter.com
Please note as far as I am aware all flights leave Arusha, go to Katave and then on to Mahale.
If your prepared to wait until late September you can see my trip report.

Sniktawk

Unless I am missing something you are paying more than rack rates?

Rack rates are here: http://www.go-safari.com/Mahale/Nkungwe.htm and here:
http://www.go-safari.com/Katavi/KatumaCamp.htm

A bit late now but next time try a local outfitter in Tanzania just to compare prices!

Thanks Nyama!

You are a dream saver
i was just about to conclude that i would NEVER be able to do it during this incarnation

aby

aby, the beach is the same, the crystal-clear water is the same, the bright colours of the fishes are the same, the green mountains are the same, and of course the chimps are the same - what do you need more being in paradise? Flycatcher's is nearest to nature of all three camps. With luck you even get the unexpected - during my stay we had a leopard in camp, each night. The trekking is more local guide oriented (compared to Greystoke) what I prefer. And the relationships to the local researchers are excellent - we had several visits by chimps researcher Mike Huffman (co-author of the Mahale coffee table book) and very interesting talks...

ucsmolly, if you're looking for a reason not to stay at Greystoke, there was once someone on this board who posted a report that she/they didn't much care for it. It was cynstalker:

http://fodors.com/forums/threadselec...p;tid=34831311

The cost is outrageous but the big red flag for me was only 1 chimp visit. Only 1 visit would disuade me because you might not see the chimps on one try.

You are not disloyal by contacting another agent. Your agent certainly works with more clients than you. It is not a monogamous relationship. The more you know the more you may come to appreciate your current agent. Or not.
But I know just how you feel.
<b>Predator</b>,
How many chimp visits are you doing?

Thanks to everyone for their thoughtful replies and insight. I looked into combining Mahale and Katavi, so the 'sting' of the flights might be lessened, but I'm not sure that combo works with the constraints of our travel dates. Definitely looking into Nkungwe and Katuma as alternate options. Chimpanzee safaris also has a Gombe/Mahale package, which would allow us to visit our friends in Kigoma.

The increase in beds in Mahale is disturbing the historic way of doing things.

Anyone who has visited there recently has to agree that some kind of order needs to established - informally (the present system) or formally (under review).

During our visit, I became aware that the different camps were sending clients and trackers into the forest in the early morning. We &quot;ran&quot; into each other and the researchers from Japan at different times while everybody was looking for chimps! When we saw a chimp, the 60 minute countdown began.

At one time the chimps basically followed us around (they like the paths as much as we do!) so we saw them a few times over a few hours.

When a new group of tourists showed up they got their 60 minutes and we had to leave only to see more chimps a bit futher down the road.

One small group of tourists were certainly noisy and clearly did not keep their distance from the chimps. The quality of guiding (and potential lack of consistency did bother me).

And then we saw two chimps next to the neighboring camp on our way home to Greystoke!

Chimps scare me more than any other large animal. They can be very dangerous and brutal. Yet in Mahale, I saw people strolling around along the beaches and in the forest to/from the bandas with no guard/ranger in sight! Obviously the Mahale chimps are well-behaved, but...

With 3 camps and the bandas now in full operation, I am all for some sort of order. And safety for both chimp and human.

We are all waiting for a resolution. There are talks of 1 visit by 6 people only per day and so on. Clearly this is not good given the potential number of people in the camps at busy times.

All we can do is wait and see.

Sorry I forgot that my package included two nights in Hatari, waiting for flight connection to Mahale and 1 night in Arusha on return as flight to Joburg is early morning.So presumimg the flight to be around $995 it looks like 3 nights each would be $4,400 at Nkungwe an extra $3,000 for Greystoke seems a lot extra to pay for greater luxury!

Lynn: as of right now I believe we will get one trek per day for a total of 3 during my stay. At present the limit is a group of 6 for each Greystoke trek which means 1/2 the camp goes in the a.m. and 1/2 goes in the p.m. Of course if the park service does introduce a new chimp permit rule that limits that I guess it could change. Hopefully that won't happen before February! It's going to be tough for Greystoke at their prices if they have to explain to those who have already booked that there is a new limit, even though it will be beyond their control.

Let's keep things real folks!

Do not compare 2008 prices with 2007! There is a big difference!

Sniktawk, just compare your quote with this:

In September 2007, the street rate from local companies for a 4-day Chada Katavi + 3-day Greystoke + 2 night Hatari Lodge + 1 night Arusha Hotel + flying doctors package?

About $5200 per person, including transfers and flights!

I still think you are paying premium.

Typo alert!

Let's make that 4 NIGHTS katavi + 3 NIGHTS mahale (not days)

Leely is correct - we did not enjoy our stay at Mahale. <b>HOWEVER</b>, and this is important: The main reason we did not like Mahale was due to (mis?)management, which has changed since we were there in February 2006. I would hope that the problems we encountered have been rectified, and that it is now the luxury property it advertises. The company that we used in February 2006 still uses them, and we were reimbursed for our stay - all of which tells me that they have addressed the problems. Also - the things that bothered us may have been of no consequence to other travelers.

The following link is to some pictures taken while we were there.
http://tinyurl.com/ypxx7p

Seeing the chimps was <b>truly</b> wonderful, but if I had known how the trip was going to go while there, I would have skipped it. There are other places that we enjoyed so much more - Rusinga Island comes to mind, but of course - no chimps there.

<font color="green">Cyn</font>

I just got the following news from Arusha:

TANAPA has approved a general management plan that regulates chimps viewing in Mahale. In this plan there is to be a limit of 18 permits per day, 6 permits going to each of the camps (Greystoke, Flycatchers and Chimpanzee Safaris) as well as an increase in fees. Permits will be transferable. Currently a consultant company is evaluating how chimps viewing should take place and how to implement a booking system. This contract work will be done mid of this month so it is possible that the new system will be implemented very shortly.

That doesn't sound at all good. 6 permits a day for each camp?

Greystoke itself has 6-8 cottages (I can't remember how many), which means 12-16 persons in camp at a time. That means you might have to stay 2-3 days to even get one chimp trek. It's too far there and too expensive to make that worthwhile.

I guess it will end with 2 nights for each chimp trek - one day chimps, the other day beach and dive activities. Maybe also more cultural tourism at the villages around.

Let's not forget what's really important here; the chimps. For them, this is good news.

Regarding the proposed limitations on viewing in Mahale, I have received the following from my agant via Chimp Safaris
&quot;That is just a proposal by Frankfurt to TANAPA and has not been approved as yet. We plan to continue as per this year GMP until the next one is approved. The only restriction is the 1 hour veiwing per day per group. We will brief you should there be any changes.&quot;

We are going next month, in the meantime I would suggest that anyone making a booking asks about this!
I will let everybody know if there are any restrictions in my report.