Egypt OAT experiences?
 

We're leaving on March 30 for the OAT trip, and I've read every relevant thread. Back in 2005 there was a little discussion of free time, with some folks saying there was none and others saying they found time to explore Cairo and Aswan on their own. Our Thailand trip with OAT was jam-packed, which was fine, but I know a bit more about Egypt and I want time for a walking tour of medieval Cairo on our own, and for the Tombs of the Nobles at Luxor. Our itinerary looks workable for that, with a free afternoon in Luxor and free time in Cairo at the end, but how closely will it resemble our actual days? We're on the 3-day cruise version, Luxor to Aswan.

Thanks in advance for any recent experiences you can share.

My main recommendation would be that you should communicate with your OAT trip leader. Even though OAT is a packaged tour, they will bend over backwards to try to accomodate special requests. If you have particular things you want to do on your own, you may need to choose what activity to skip. If you tell your tour leader what you want to do, he'll be able to help you figure out how to make it work -- perhaps by foregoing a scheduled activity and joining up with the group again for dinner.

Yes--you should have time on your own in Luxor and Cairo. Skip the optional Cairo tour and make your own plans. Your guide should be able to help you make any arrangements you want.
Our cruise was Luxor to Aswan--very enjoyable!

We just returned from this trip yesterday! Got stuck at JFK... In spite of US storm issues, we had a wonderful vacation.

There's not much free time in Luxor, and you'd have to be motivated to visit the tombs of the nobles, but you can do it. The OAT leaders seem nervous when you go off on your own, but if you're well prepared they relax, a little.

Bring a cell phone(quad GSM phone) and buy a traveler SIM chip at a phone store. Costs 50LE, the recharge card another 50LE. Will cover your whole trip and you can sms back home which is fun. Then you'll be able to call the trip leader if you get into any trouble, and they'll be happier if they can reach you.

The flight to Luxor is 0600 and you leave at 0400 for the airport, then visit Karnak and Luxor temples, have a felucca ride, then dinner. We were exhausted but exhilarated by the end of the day.

The next morning you leave before sunrise by motorboat and have breakfast and watch the sun come up. It's very peaceful. You'll visit a farm family's house. I wished I had brought a little gift-- they are very poor people. Maybe something edible--be sure it can't melt since they pile the luggage ON TOP of the buses.

Next you visit the Valley of Kings/Queens and that takes several hours. Then to lunch. You end up having about 3 hours on your own, which is hardly enough time to do much, and I guarantee you'll be tired. The tombs of the nobles are not close to town, you'll need to hire a taxi to take you out there. We considered it, but we were feeling "tombed out" by the end of the day.

We sat out at the hotel pool which was lovely, relaxing, and refreshing, and watched the hoopo birds on the lawn.

The Luxor by night carriage ride was the low point of the trip. We didn't get a good view of the lit temples, some of the horses were so thin and the men kept whipping them to make them gallop even after we asked them to stop. My daughter got really upset. They ride the caleches right through the souk, totally disruptive and dangerous to the other shoppers and vendors there. Made me feel like an overpampered traveler, and really uncomfortable. We did get a good view of the squalid back streets and a gory butcher shop. Totally missable. I can't believe OAT promotes that sort of behavior.

If you want to do the noble's tombs I'd recommend a short rest, then hire a taxi to take you to the tombs. Eat dinner out, skip the Luxor by night excursion, maybe check out the souk after dinner (bargain HARD offer 25-30% everything's overpriced here), then select a well fed horse for a caleche ride around the Luxor temple and back to the hotel. You'll need some time to pack in the evening, especially if you go ballooning the next morning.

They collect the luggage about 0830 leave for the Luxor museum, then have a discovery at the Luxor food market. You won't be in the souk or have time for extra shopping. Then you board the boat.

The Hathor is a LOVELY boat and you'll have a wonderful time. Was the best food and accomodation of the trip. Be sure you have some cash to buy something they toss up in Esna. It's hilarious fun and the small blankets are pretty.

You won't have any free time the first day in Cairo. I was unhappy with that day. We spent 2 rushed hours in the Egyptian museum then went for a very late lunch. It was 1500 by then, not enough time to go see anything else, and the Mena House closed the pool shortly after we got back there, so there was nothing to do. What a wasted day. We spent 90 min in a useless orientation meeting discussing the exact same stuff that's in your trip booklet. Wished we'd skipped it, taken a taxi/metro to the museum on our own and spent the whole morning there, then visited the Coptic sites.

You will have free time in Cairo at the end. You can't check into the hotel until 2pm, so the leader will arrange something for the group to do. She got us a cab to Mar Girgis, and we visited the Coptic museum, several churches, the Citadel and Mohammed Ali mosque, then went to Bab Zwayla, walked to the Khan Khalili bazaar, then went back to the hotel. We missed the home hosted dinner, but we had a great day.

There's no free time the next day with the pyramids.

The last day there's a lecture on Islam at 0800, then the optional tour of Islamic Cairo, lunch, then you are free in the afternoon. They don't visit the Coptic museum. We went to Alexandria for the day on the train and back, which was fun, although the weather was awful which prevented us from walking around town.

The catacombs are interesting, especially if you haven't seen the ones in Rome, the Roman theater and villa are missable if you've seen any others, the library is beautiful, and the National museum is very nice but has the same stuff we'd seen in all the others. Not sure I'd recommend that excursion. Would be nicer later in the year when the weather in Alexandria improves and you can walk along the Corniche and harbor.

In retrospect I think I would have gone BACK to the Egyptian museum the afternoon we arrived back in Cairo, gone to the home dinner, then done the Coptic museum/churches, and Islamic Cairo areas on my own the last day.

It's really easy to take taxis; just read the guide books and write down about what it should cost. I probably overpaid most of the time, but we're talking about 1-2$, not enough for me to quibble about. We enjoyed the Metro. We rode in the first car reserved for women and never had any issues. It's cheap, fast, and safer than the taxis. Get off at the Giza station for the pyramid hotels and take a taxi to the hotel. Just close your eyes and pretend you're on an amusement park ride...will be better for your blood pressure, I assure you, lol. Be careful crossing any street. They do NOT stop for pedestrians.

You might consider taking only carry on luggage on the way over. If we'd had to check luggage, we would have missed our LAXtoJFK flight due to 1,000+ people in line at LAX thanks to storm cancellations. Lots of luggage was delayed and one poor guy in the group never got his suitcase the whole trip. If you're traveling with somebody, cross pack a few clothes. No luggage got lost on the domestic Egypt flights, it was all in the international connections.

There were a couple disappointments and irritations of course, but our trip with OAT to Jordan and Egypt was wonderful and I would highly recommend it to anybody.

I traveled to Egypt with OAT in 2002. Yes, the guides were quite reluctant to let people go off on their own, as they are responsible for their safety. Since the early '90s, the US embassy in Egypt has required armed escorts for American groups in Egypt. They are usually low key and you may not even realize that they are there. Some of our travelers had issues with the fact that OAT had combined 3 groups into one trip, given their advertising of "no more than 16 travelers." The local guides decided to separate our groups' departures from the hotels, etc. by 5 minutes. That meant that the guards that had previously traveled by auto near our buses now had to be onboard with us.

That said, I never felt threatened while in Egypt, even so soon after 9/11 (this was March 2002.) The locals we met were friendly and welcoming, and even wanted their photos taken with us. There is some free time available, but I found that I usually needed to use it to rest. It will be hot by the end of March. It was already over 100 degrees in places in early March.

My wife and I traveled to Egypt with OAT last November. The weather was glorious and the trip, one of the best we've taken. I suppose that no trip is totally perfect and one can always find fault with something. But our November trip was as good as it gets, for us anyway.

Thank you all for the helpful info and advice. I'm ready!

We went with OAT in 2004 and it is our favorite trip so far and we've been overseas about 7 times. Our guide was marvelous and the food was all great but the food on the Hathor was exceptional! The vendors throwing their goods on the boat was wonderful! And I noticed what is one's person's treasure is another one's trash as we absolutely loved the ride in the carriages thru the Luxor marketplace on the way to the temple in the evening! It was exciting, exhilarating, and all the people walking the streets were very friendly. The Cairo Egyptian Museum was outstanding. Hope you have a marvelous time as we did!

Mowmow,

Thanks for your report. I appreciate the detail. No tour is perfect, so it's good to know beforehand what other people enjoyed and what they didn't.

I will be going with OAT but my schedule looks different. Did you do the three-day Nile cruise? I'm doing the four-day cruise so that may be the reason. we'll be flying in mid-afternoon to Aswan.

Did you go to Abu Simbel? If so, was it worthwhile?

Thanks.

Abu Simbel was included in our trip, but even as an option, I would definitely go. It was spectacular! We waited until the last moment to return to the bus, and were rewarded with photos of the monument without any tourists in view.

Hi, sorry it took so long for me to get back here...life's been busy.

Yes, we took the 3 night cruise --Jordan was a pre-trip. I chose that purposely because I took my 13 year old daughter and I thought the culture shock from US to Jordan would be a little less than straight to Egypt.

It worked out really well. She had a great time, was well behaved, and made great friends with the other group members. She's even talked to several of them on the phone since we've been home. They seemed to really enjoy her being along for the fun.

Do not go all the way to Egypt and miss Abu Simbel. It's an effort to get there, but worth it. Just stand in awe of the fact they were able to move it.

Of course no group tour will please everybody at every moment. Neither will a private family trip. Last spring we did a 4 generation vacation to the Grand Canyon. Try keeping everyone happy when the ages range from 12-90.

Bring your sense of humor and a little patience with you and you'll have a wonderful time. The OAT leaders really work hard to help you have a good experience in their country.

Thanks mowmow. What a nice trip for a 13-year-old. I will be missing Jordan and am very disappointed. OAT canceled because of "lack of interest," which really surprised me considering all the positive comments on that extension.

How many people were in your Jordan group?

That seems really weird. There were 29 in our two groups that shared the boat. One couple must have cancelled or rescheduled.

22 went on the pre-trip, and all but 11 stayed for Alexandria post-trip. Half of the pre-trippers missed the first day or two in Jordan because of flight cancellations the day we left (those tornados in the Midwest).

We did have a group of six who were traveling together and did the pre-trip but even without them it would have been enough for a group.

My only serious criticism of OAT is their customer service. They don't seem to know what they are talking about half of the time, and often can't answer basic questions.

They almost cancelled my pretrip to Turkey, and I went ballistic since that pretrip was the reason I chose the OAT tour over other operators. The pretrip ended up going with only 7 people; we then found out that one other main group couple had wanted to do the pretrip and was told there was no space!

Not sure how flexible you are on dates, but can they change you to a date when the Jordan extension is going? I'd be really disappointed too. Amman is a typical ugly cement building city, but Jerash is great, the Dead Sea was fun, and Petra incredible.

Although, if you miss it, I guess you'll just have to go back again...and maybe visit Jerusalem, too :))

<<My only serious criticism of OAT is their customer service. They don't seem to know what they are talking about half of the time, and often can't answer basic questions.>>

Mowmow, thanks for the info. I agree with your statement above. I think it's strange that the Jordan post-trip (4-day cruise) would be canceled for "lack of interest." It seems that there would be enough people interested when they combine the two groups.

I'm going to try again and hope to speak to someone knowledgeable.

Thanks.

<<Next you visit the Valley of Kings/Queens and that takes several hours. Then to lunch.>>

Do you enter the tombs? If yes, how difficult is it? stairs, air quality, etc.

The group leader purchased a ticket good for 3 tomb visits. She gave us a quick run down on which tombs were open, and briefly described each one's highlights and pointed which direction they were in. I'd done some research ahead of time so I had an idea of which ones I wanted to see.

They are all somewhat different. Some have a steep ramp down, some short, some stairs, some carved, some painted, some finished, others not.

Try out thebanmappingproject.com for an extensive look at what you'll see. There are plenty of other sites as well if you just search "valley of kings tombs".

Everyone took off in various directions and we all managed to see our tombs and be back at the appointed time and place.

There's no shade, I made use of my umbrella to provide some. Bring water, it's hot even in the morning. You can't take pictures inside the tombs. One German tourist who did got seriously shouted at for quite a while (deserved it). If you want to see King Tut's tomb you have to buy the extra ticket yourself at a separate window.

I thought I'd want to see more, but they are similar, and you'll see a couple more at the Valley of the Queens. You'll be "tombed out" after seeing 5 in one day.

Try to study up a little before you go, they'll be more interesting that way. The guides are not allowed to lecture in the tombs in order to keep people moving along, but it means you have no idea what you are looking at. Each tomb has a "worker" who will point out some things for some baksheesh though. Some were annoying, some very helpful. I tipped them accordingly.

One tomb we went into was crowded, hot, and humid; I realized we were behind a big tour group that was loitering. We made sure not to follow them into the next tomb.

A little folding hand held fan would have been nice to have. In one tomb in VOQ an enterprising "worker" was handing out pieces of cardboard then demanding baksheesh, lol.

Have fun!

<<In one tomb in VOQ an enterprising "worker" was handing out pieces of cardboard then demanding baksheesh, lol.>>

That is enterprising -- and funny.

Thanks for all the great info. I have been watching videos, any TV programs (saw one last week that showed a young Egyptian woman shopping in an enormous mall in Cairo) that come along and reading, but there are soooo many tombs. Thanks for the web site, I'll check that out. Agree on being "tombed out" after seeing five.

Great tip on the umbrella, I'll be sure to put that on my packing list.

One more question. You wrote that there are two OAT groups. I know each has its own leader, but do they travel together by bus to the sights? Or are they together only on the ship?

Thanks again.

When we took this trip there were 2 groups. Our trip included the Jordan pre-trip and the 2 groups we formed in Jordan were not the 2 groups we were in for the Egypt portion of the trip.
Each group had their own bus and remained as 2 separate groups during sightseeing trips. We did eat together and would arrive and depart for sightseeing at the same time.

We also had two groups in Jordan and two in Egypt. The "airport greeter" in Cairo was a lame individual and tried to change our groups, but we ignored him and stayed in the groups we had formed in Jordan. There was a group of friends traveling together. The leaders sorted it all out to everybody's satisfaction.

Each group had its own leader and traveled in their own bus, but we saw each other at meals and were together on the boat. Our group usually left a few minutes ahead of the other group for everything.

I have to credit a Chinese tour guide I saw in Pergamum for the umbrella idea. I was wilting in the sun and she had this lovely parasol and was translating in its shade. I got some funny looks in Egypt with my umbrella until they realized that I was much cooler than they were!

The huge mall is called STARS and the group went there when we returned to Cairo since we couldn't check into the hotel yet. Your itinerary may differ. We took off and did the Coptic and Islamic sites instead. The other group members liked the mall, and did some shopping.

I was in an Alexandria OAT Pre-trip group of 10 which arrived March 7, 2007. Four days later we were joined by 4 others in Cairo to form "our group" during this trip which included a 4-night Aswan to Luxor Nile Cruise. Sadly I did not go on the Post-trip to Jordan -- not for lack of interest, but basically for lack of time and money.

Only 4 from our group of 14 went on to Jordan and while they initially expressed misgivings about joining the unknown "other" group, I'm sure they were not sorry they went. Our group just happened to be an especially fun group of people.
I enjoyed the Nile cruise immensely and was glad it was 4 nights and not 3. Going the opposite direction from Luxor to Aswan requires a 30-mile minbus trip from Luxor to Esna rather than cruising, so I was happy for the extra night on the boat. Plus I enjoyed the experience of going through the Esna Locks, which I think you miss if you're boarding the cruise in Esna. But again, I only know from my own experience.

I signed up for the Spiritual Cairo, Sound and Light at the Giza Pyramids, Luxor by Night, and Abu Simbel. I omitted the H.A. Balloon Ride in Luxor because I'd already had a pleasant experience in northern California - besides, one had to get at up 3:30 AM! for that option. (In retrospect, that morning was very hazy and the view couldn't have been THAT great in a basket with 24 people. Plus one of the baskets that AM - not OAT's - tipped over upon landing and several travellers were injured - a couple breaking legs...)

I especially liked the Spiritual Cairo and Abu Simbel options. The Giza Sound and Light was repetitive, considering a Sound and Light IS included at the Philae Temple in Luxor. I also didn't care for the Luxor by Night carriage ride - picture a lively, but extremely narrow crowded street of the local market, that has adults and children alike making way so that a caravan of tourist carriages can make its way through with locals and tourists gawking at each other... Then the caravan clip-clopped its way through dark neighborhoods where young children chased the carriages so dangerously close, I thought they would be trampled. Just not one of my favorite memories, and definitely not romantic...

A comment about food. I usually discourage my family from visiting any U.S. fastfood places when travelling abroad - essentially, what's the point of going overseas? But on this trip I laugh, because after 2 wks I got so tired of typical Egyptian food (not that it wasn't good... and the cruise cuisine is wonderful...) that I made a comment in Luxor about "a Big Mac would sure taste good right now" and before I knew it, a bunch of us seniors were traipsing over to McD's at 10 PM...

But, more to the point of your question (though you will be on your trip when this reply is posted) I found there was definitely free time that I could have used to explore more, but that I used to relax -- in my room or by the pool. This OAT trip to Egypt is crammed with SO MUCH that I often felt I couldn't do any more. And too, the time, weather, food and cultural adjustments take a toll -- even if you ARE physically fit. Our "free time" on the last day in Cairo (Heliopolis) was hampered by extreme winds and hazy dark skies -- everyone seemed too mentally beat after our wonderful experience to battle the streets of Cairo again. Also, from photos I've taken, the Tombs of the Nobels (which are in Aswan, not Luxor) require a LONG diagonal climb up a staircase in the sand leading from the ferry landing. Maybe next time...

Oh yes, one more thing, my cabinmate brought an International Blackberry -- it worked fine until Aswan - midway through the trip - where the screen came up all Arabic! - it had downloaded from the local network instead of the international one -- not correctable until she returned home...

All in all, one of the best trips I've ever taken. I regret being so foolishly anxious about traveling in this part of the world. I always felt safe...

Thanks kp and mowmow for your responses. I feel like I am better prepared now.

blithespirit,
The OP may be in Egypt now, but I'm still gathering information and have enjoyed reading your post.

I will be doing the four night cruise. The longer stay in one place for me, the better.

I am also doing the pre-extension to Alexandria and think that it will be a nice way to start the trip. I get tired just reading the daily itinerary of the Egypt trip. I know I'll have to pace myself.

Yours is the second negative comment about the Luxor carriage ride and I think I'll skip that. I would think we could walk around the town and then have an early night. I didn't have much interest in the balloon ride either and reading "broken legs" makes it No interest.

I am going to Abu Simbel but am not sure about the Coptic Cairo tour. Did you have much time in the Khan after the tour? When I was with an OAT tour in Morocco (fabulous) it was like a race walk through the markets until we got to the carpet store. I'm hoping to be able to look for items that I'm interested in the Khan and not be rushed through.

I am bitterly disappointed that the Jordan extension on my trip has been canceled. I called OAT again this week to see if there had been a change but it is definitly off for "lack of interest." It's really hard to believe that from two groups there wouldn't be enough interest in Jordan. There is an opening in November but it is a pre trip extension and a three-night cruise. I also don't want to have my travel companion change her plans because of me; she has no interest in Jordan.

Did you have free time to shop in Alexandria? I'd like to buy a couple of cotton shirts and thought that might be the best opportunity.

Thanks for all the great info.

Don't go to Alex expecting to shop. The shopping is much better in Cairo.

Also, I am not sure what kind of "cotton shirt" you want to buy, but don't get too excited about finding all that great famous Egyptian cotton here. You will find more of it at JC Penneys. As with almost any agricultural product anywhere in the world, the best is exported. This is especially true of the cotton as Egypt has poor dyes and printing processes. The best will be exported to be turned into textiles and some of it makes it's way back, but not usually the best. The Egyptian people generally prefer synthetics as they dry wrinkle free without the use of a dryer, which most can't afford or don't use.
There are a few rip-off cotton t-shirt (mostly) joints out near the pyramids that tout having Egyptian Cotton and sell t-shirts and a few other items, but don't make getting those cotton sheets or shirts a priority, as you can probably find better ones and cheaper ones at JC Penney on sale. I am actually going to bring back cotton fabric this summer to be made into the shirts I like from the states. I expect to find nicer cottons there, if I can find a fabric store.

If you really really really have to have cotton sheets from Egypt, the fabric can be bought off the bolt in queen size widths in the Wikala ebala market behind the World Trade Center, but I suggest you hire a guide to help you get in there and find them. And, do understand that you will need to take the fabric home and sew them into sheets or hire a tailor here to sew them for you...and they probably won't have a fitted bottom sheet.
Or there are some high end shops (one at the First Residence - Four Seasons - Mall) that have nice sheets already made up, but they are expensive.

Finally, there are some shirts here you will find that are made of cotton. They are an over the head type style with long or short sleeves, and generally with some decoration on the front, either machine stitched or hand stitched. They are comfortable and affordable and available at a bajillion shops at the Khan el Khalili in many sizes and colors.

Thanks for that response. Isn't it weird that Egypt is renowned for cotton but people are wearing synthetics. I thought if I could buy a couple of nice cotton shirts (not t-shirts) I could pack less and have something to bring home. Well, it doesn't sound promising.

What fabric are the gjellabas (sp?) made of?

I asked about shopping in Alexandria because I will be with a group and think we'll have more free time in Alex than in Cairo; we will be visiting the Manshiya markets -- any interesting shopping opportunities there?

I won't be looking for sheeting fabric, it would be pretty heavy and I can buy good sheets here at TJ Maxx.

Thanks again.

There's a store called On Safari (fka Safari) which has some nice cotton shirts. There are a number of then around -- if you're staying at the Marriott Gizera (as opposed to the JW Marriott) there's one there. Also there's a woman's clothing store called MM which is on 26th of July Street not far from the Marriott. I bought a couple of nice cotton shirts there. (Actually, I bought one of them in 3 different color combinations -- it's hard to find western clothing here that is good quality.)

Gallebayas are cotton, but check the label; some might have poly in them (one that I purchased did have some of the "twin-sisters" - poly & ester). These come in all lengths, so open them to be sure they're not too long or short for your height. They're also available in short length, around hip-level. And, of course, children's sizes.

Before first going to Egypt a friend who lived in Cairo for years, recommended not buying cotton in colors as the dye wasn't fast and could bleed. Well, they must have improved on the quality, as I didn't have any problem with black or navy.

Like anywhere you travel, often what a country is known for isn't readily available in good quality for locals (to buy in-country) and vice versa (it's not exported). Friend's in Turkey known for towel cloth, shop for their linens (bed & bath) in the US where there are more choices, better quality and prices.

More tips, thanks to you both.

An addition to the comments on towels and sheets. There are some stores which do sell nice Egyptian cotton towels with wonderful embroidery on them.

These are not in the tourist areas like the Khan, but can be found in the more expensive parts of town like Zamalek or at some of the more expensive hotels including those Debbie mentioned. City Stars (not Stars) has a couple that I really like. I can't remember if the prices there are expensive compared to US prices or just expensive compared to general Cairo prices.

I just went back & read the entire post again. Reading some of the comments on OAT about limited time and skipping an evening event or half day tour tour (which, after all, you've already paid for) and going out on your own makes me wonder if OAT was a good fit for these people. If you add up the extra expnenses s that you ended up paying for by deviating from the planned trip & taking a taxi to Valley of the NObles, for example, and considering the money that you've spent for the parts of the trip that you have not done, you might have some extra money to be able to afford a longer trip or a more expensive trip that has the things you want to do.


And I must add that some of the things that Debbie, Sandi and I are suggesting may be better for someone who has more free time than the OAT trip will allow.

I was under the impression that LaVisiteure wanted to visit additional places (i.e. Tombs of the Nobles or Medieval Cairo) in his/her FREE time, not skip something from the paid itinerary. The Coptic Cairo, Evening in Luxor, Giza S&L and Balloon Rides are options not included in the regular itinerary. I agree with Sunshine007 that if one is going to skip a lot of the prepaid group activities, you might not be a candidate for that OAT tour.

Re: Coptic Cairo tour -- While some throughly enjoy the haggling experience, I unfortunately am easily intimidated, and found Khan Khalili extremely stressful and not pleasant at all. We were on our own after lunch for 1.25 hours to shop. I wanted merely to "window shop" and look at all the fascinating stuff, and maybe purchase a souvenir or two, but this is impossible because if you show even the slightest bit of interest, the sellers are all over you like flies... Plus, our OAT guide was so afraid we would get lost she told us to stay on one street only -- advice I ignored without consequence. So, if the things you're looking for aren't in that section, good luck... And never, never accept a "gift" unless you intend to pay for it. Nothing is ever given as a gift.

I chuckle as I remember the man in one of the tombs in the Valley of the Kings - he was seemingly kind, handing out small pieces of cardboard to be used as a fan in the stifling hot room and darn if I didn't fall for that one! Of course, he expected 20 cent baksheesh (a tip)... Not a big deal, but I smiled at my own naivete.

I should add that as ann_nyc mentioned, your guide has the option of tailoring the schedule to fit the whole group's desires. To avoid the crowds of the morning at the Egyptian museum, our OAT guide opted to take us there at 1 PM where we spent almost 3 hours (with 1 hr on our own) before leaving for the Cairo airport (flight to Aswan.)

There are definitely better opportunities to shop rather than Alex. In fact we didn't shop in Alex at all - being the first stop, no one wanted to shlep stuff all over Egypt. For those interested, you can order a colorful custom t-shirt with the specified name in hieroglyphics for about $15 in the hotel gift shops (Mena and N. Cataract)

One final experience... almost every toilet in Egypt comes equipped with a bidet function - either built-in or as a separate hose. In the Alexandria National Museum, I couldn't find the knob to flush, so I kicked this knob in the back near the floor with my foot... it was the bidet knob... instantly a tremendous gush of water gave me a full-frontal shower from neck to knee! When I screamed, my friend came rushing to help, pushing aside the stall door and SHE got a full-frontal shower... But the clincher was, the bathroom lady had her hand out to collect her 20 cents -- before turning off the water -- as we walked away dripping wet. Anyway, such was my memorable Egypt OAT experience...

blithespirit- I don't get the feeling you are really complaining about the backsheesh issues you described in your post, but I just want to make some comments about them -

First, I applaud the guy that was handing out fans and asking for a tip. How clever is that? I hope those that took them, did tip him nicely. I don't know how old the guy was, but you indicated he wasn't a boy, and I think if the guy needed money, which obviously he did, he came up with a clever plan to make some. Reuseable fans, and more than that, he was probably recycling to make the fan material. What more would you want? This guy has little, to no, income from any other job, yet he finds a need, and provides a service/good that tourists can pay him for. Why would you expect him to do that for free? Hey, if my tourism gig doesn't work, I may be out at the pyramids handing out fans next. It's a brilliant idea.

Next the bathroom gals/guys may not do much, but I will stand behind them all the way (99% of the time) just because they got off their ass and came to the bathroom, if for nothing else. It's not like they have a lot of choices here for ways to make money, or like Egypt gives away a check every month for those that can apply and waddle out to the mail box during Doctor Phil/Days of Our Lives/Jepardy commercials. There are places in this world where we have to pay something like 25 cents to even get into the toilet before using it, so giving someone 17 cents (1 Egyptian Pound) for the priviledge, and helping her/him feed his/her family should be something we are a little happy to do.

Hope I didn't lecture too much. Just feel the need to remind people that the meaning of the word "backsheesh" is "spread the wealth", and that is all it is. I hate to say it, but mostly it's only the big tour company owners that are here asking for more money that already have a lot of money. The poor bathroom people are most likely not rich.

Debbie - not a lecture at all!!! I've wanted to say something similar for a LONG time, but just never found an eloquent way of doing it. You did a great job of expressing exactly how I feel!

+1 on the baksheesh. I think its great to help people who are helping themselves and 1 Egyptian pound will not break the bank for anyone. If you approach it with a smile and don't think they are trying to take advantage, you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Each time I visit Egypt I am impressed with Egyptian ingenuity and have met the most interesting people just by being friendly, polite and open to conversation. At Dashur, the attendant loaned me a flashlight. When I came up I handed it back to him with 2 pounds (he didn't have to ask) and was rewarded with a wonderful smile. I sat and talked to him for a bit while waiting for my traveling companion to come up. It was a wonderful encounter.

Regarding negotiating in the market, just have fun with it! The vendors expect you to negotiate. If you just want to look, just look. If you shake your head, smile, say "la shokran" (no thank you) and just keep looking, they get it. It is just a different culture. If you can get over the difference and have fun with it, you'll have a great time!

Casual Cairo.

I didn't think Blithespirit was complaining either. And you weren't lecturing, it was a good post. I laughed when I first read about the man handing out cardboard for fans. I agree with you completely about his creativity and I'd be happy to pay him. Ditto for the women spending their time in bathrooms handing out toilet paper.

<<Reading some of the comments on OAT about limited time and skipping an evening event or half day tour (which, after all, you've already paid for) and going out on your own makes me wonder if OAT was a good fit for these people.>>

Sunshine, I don't intend to skip the events I've paid for. One of the features that I like about OAT is their offerings of "optional tours." Sound & Light at Giza, Luxor by night, Coptic Cairo and the morning balloon ride are all optional and have extra fees, so anyone who is not interested would have that time free to do as they wish.

I have done "all inclusive" group tours and noticed that almost everyone skips something sometime, if not just to get away the "group" to do their own thing at least once, than to rest from a full itinerary, so I prefer OAT's options.

While we're discussing this issue...

First off, there is massive unemployment here. Those who have little or no education and no skills have few options if any options. As said above, they are showing ingenuity and a willingness to work.

You would be shocked at how little people have. It may be 17 cents for you, but for the locals it can be oranges or tangerines -- in short a better diet.

I love these people. They provide me with a much needed service with a smile. Would you like to stand in a smelly bathroom and hand out kleenex to people, who are often grumpy or rude?

What if they weren't there and you forgot your toilet tissue? Frankly there were times when I would have paid $100 US for some toilet tissue.

I even give money to the elderly gentlemen and women who ask for money -- even if they haven't performed a service. The smile and blessing that they give me are worth far more to me than the couple pounds I give them.

Since this is a county where the vast majority of the people are Moslem, you can be assured that the money will not be wasted on intoxication via drinking or drugs, unlike, say, the people who stand in downtown Seattle looking for some money.

Here's a little anecdote. I was about 4 blocks away from home when my sandal broke. As I was hobbling back to my home, a few people stopped their journeys and pantomimed how to get to the closest shoe repair man. The young woman who works at the laungry insisted that she lend me her shoes for the return journey. Can you imagine Americans doing either of those things?

Sunshine -

You used "Seattle" in your last post. Are you from Seattle? I am. Where are you here in Cairo? I'm in Heliopolis.

CasualCairodetours

Debbie, see email from Carpoh007.

Carolyn

Hello all,
I just had a couple of comments...
If you do the 3 night cruise from Luxor towards Aswan, you don't take a bus to Esna. We boarded the Hathor in Luxor, had lunch, then started cruising. The bus is used if the Esna lock is closed. The closure dates are available on the web site and in the brochure. You'd take the bus on that stretch no matter which direction you were going.

The 4 night cruise isn't any longer, but you spend an extra night on the boat instead of a hotel in town. It would be my choice. The boat was much nicer than any of the hotels.

If you're really craving American fast-food, McD's DELIVERS in Egypt! You'll have to go to the hotel gate or front desk to pick it up. My daughter made me take a pic on my cell phone and sms it to her friends. Sounds like a business opportunity that could take off here... If you buy a "meal" in Luxor, they are giving out pastel glass Coca Cola glasses. They were a hot "trade commodity" on the street. Trade one for a horse& buggy ride back to the hotel :)

There are tombs of the nobles in both Luxor and Aswan. The tombs in Aswan are on the hill with a high ramp/stairway going up to them. The ones in Luxor are out by the VOK. I think the Luxor complex is bigger. We went to the pool instead, turned out to be a really nice afternoon. It was vacation after all.

Sorry, but I disagree about the bathroom situation. I grew up in Europe, have traveled to every continent and I'm very accustomed to paying an attendant to use the bathroom. Usually, however, the attendant keeps the bathrooms clean, and hands you some TP and a towel for your hands. Many of the attendants in Egypt did nothing but sit there with their hand out (the other often holding their cell phone to their ear). The bathrooms were some of the filthiest I have ever seen and smelled like outhouses on a 110degree day. No TP offered or available if we asked. I gave them the baksheesh without complaint, but I'll have to admit I resented the entire situation. I would have paid a lot more to pee in a place that didn't nauseate me. The attendants who had figured this out were suitably rewarded.

We never went anywhere without our tissue or TP pack, hand cleaner, and a towelette wipe. My daughter thought a clothespin for our nose would have been a good addition to our "potty kit."

Be sure when you hand out baksheesh not to give out quarters. They are worthless in Egypt. We exchanged about 10$ worth of quarters for bills for various people. You'll only spend about 20-30$ on baksheesh your whole trip, so it's not a big deal.

Sorry for the misinformation regarding the bus ride from Luxor to Esna. I'm aware the locks are closed the first two weeks of June and December. It's just that as we were disembarking the Hathor in Luxor the morning of March 21, 2007 we jokingly told a crewman we were going to sneak back for lunch that day and he said they were leaving soon for Esna to pick up the next OAT group. When I asked how the next group was getting to Esna, he said by bus... maybe he was joking with me, too.

mowmow......EVERYONE delivers in Egypt! Groceries/markets, pharmacies, restaurants, fast food. We frequently ordered McDs, Hardees, KFC, Quiznos, Chilis, as well as chinese, thai, indian, etc! Sometimes I would make tacos for dinner and have Chili's deliver tortilla chips and salsa!

Gee .....I MISS that!

I've had one latte delivered. And there's a rumor that one Cairene actually had one cigarette delivered!

Okay Sunshine - mabye the delivery thing is only in Maadi....but geez I LOVED it!!!!! Would give anything to have the sort of service here in Baku!!!