Condé Nast - Elephants
 

The March 2006 issue of Condé Nast Traveler has a brief, but excellent article on elie's in Southern Africa and the prospect for culling them in the near future.

Many of you will find it very interesting.

James

James
Could you enlighten us a little more to this article as most of us on this forum do not live in the USA and have no access to the Conde Naste mag. Do you have an online link so that we may all read the article online or do you have an ulterior motive. I wonder.

Try www.cntraveler.com

Conde Nast publishes an international edition, not only in the US.

Unless there may be some gay ellees, I can't see any ulterior motive!

Sandi - Getting a little spunky, are we? ;-)

In the UK Conde Nast publish a different edition of the magazine (spelt Traveller for a start!)

I'll keep an eye out for an international edition.

Gizzy
It is pretty common for regulars here to share information on any magazines, newspaper articles or TV programmes that we think might interest our fellow Africaphiles... since I definitely haven't noticed James pushing Conde Nast before, I'd assume he's simply being helpful rather than hiding some secret ulterior motive! :D

Update on culling in SA -

GOVERNMENT is to stay any move to begin culling elephants in South Africa’s Kruger National Park. Reuters reports that the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism, which last year set up a panel of experts to advise on how best to deal with high elephant numbers, has taken the experts’ recommendation that culling as an option be halted for the time being.

Rudi van Aarde, ecologist at the University of Pretoria, is quoted as saying that it is unclear how long the government’s postponement will hold, and that at least another three months of research needs to be done into the impact and necessity of culling.

Deat’s decision comes after months of outcry by animal welfare groups that cited culling as a cruel way to manage elephant numbers. Other scientists have, however, advocated the practice, saying it would serve as an effective means to lower high numbers and conserve biodiversity. Other options being considered are translocation, contraception and creating more space. Culling has received the most attention though as there are concerns that it would put tourists off visiting the country’s big parks.

The latest elephant population figures show that the KNP is about 300% overstocked. The last time South Africa practiced culling was in 1995.

BTW, as some of you have met and been on safari with Chris Bakkes (WS guide in Namibia), you may be interested to know that he is featured a bit in the article.

JW

Sandi -

Touché :-))

Jim and Sharon -

Couldn't resist.

(one of these days I'll have the time to figure out the smileys!)

I haven't read the article but I've read bits and pieces about this culling that they are considering. How many are they talking about culling? I think I have read the number somewhere but can't remember. Wouldn't it have to be a significant number to make a difference? What methods have they used to cull? I've only heard/read about shooting them with bullets. Have they ever culled by shooting them with lethal doses of drugs?

sandi - the smileys are here
http://www.fodors.com/forums/smileys/

You can copy and paste the characters that generate the smiley

sundowner((#))

Sundowner.
The process is as humane, if one can say that, as it possibley gets. Scholine is the drug of choice or used to be. Once the animal is down it is normally then shot. to try and shoot the ele's from the air leaves too much room for error.

And yes it is a significant number that would be removed. In the past entire families have been taken out, that way attempting to reduce the stress on "unaccompanied" minors.

This is not fairy tale stuff and decisions to cull are only taken after exhaustive consideration.

Much has been said and there is plenty of info available through the web on this issue.

According to the article, they are considering a cull of up to 5000 in KNP.

Potential loss of tourism dollars is a major consideration for RSA. Tourism is the country's top earner of foreign currency ($8 billion last year).

Gizzy, re: "most of us on this forum do not live in the USA"

I didn't know that, but I'm curious. What are the numbers by country?

Thanks, Jack

Amboseli Trust for Elephants/Amboseli Elephant Research statement regarding the culling of elephants: http://www.elephantvoices.org/index....tement1-06.pdf

Nyamera,
Thank you for that article.
I hope you all won't hate me for saying this and no one in government ever talks about it even though it's a well known fact, but I just wish the world leaders could get a grip on the human "overpopulation" and maybe, just maybe, things could begin to balance back out without having to cull other beings on this earth. In a "perfect world" I suppose. :-(

Yes, we should cull some Fodorites – starting with the most unsustainable ones. Who has the most frequent flyer miles?

I think I need some smileys …

:-D :-D 8-X

divewop, I've had that same thought myself--haven't phrased it as gently, though. I'm probably a horrible person.

And Nyamera, now you're thinking! >:)

Divewop - Amen. :-)

Interesting items pop up here at the end of the day.

Can one really expect governments to do much about human population when many countries are threatened that they will denied necessary funds if birth control is provided (discussed) to the people.

Look how long it took for the pharma companies to provide AIDS meds to third-world countries.

We live in a world of blackmailers!
Shame on all their houses!

Wow, this thread has gone from the culling of elephants to the culling of Fodorites! I've chosen not to procreate, does that help? ;)

That depends, Patty. How many FF miles do you have?

(By the way, I don't have children and consider myself totally expendable now that my dog has passed away, so ya'll can cull me--but only AFTER I get back from my next trip, okay?)

Who gets the frequent flier miles when the top holding fodorite mile-holder is axed? :?

Hey, maybe we can have a Fodor's frequent flier miles lottery? :D

Whew...say that five times in a row fast. ;-)

No procreation here, either!
Or Rocco and Alexsandra and Julian and who knows who else.

Jack, believe you'll have to be culled!
... and grandchildren, no less.

The end of the day is dangerous. I'm outta here, maybe!

Leely,
My balance is pretty low after the last two trips. I think we need to check Rocco's or Michael's. We could raffle off the miles and donate the funds to elephant conservation.

Sorry to hear about your dog.

Sandi's right, the end of the day is dangerous. East Coast time--I start to get dangerous when the afternoon yawns before me out West.

By the way, I'd like to go on record as taking back my offer to be culled. And I'll be forwarding a copy of this thread to my lawyer and the executor of my will. ;)

Sorry for propelling your helpful thread so off-topic, Jim.

Leely,

If I am not mistaken, you are in the Los Angeles area. I know of this crazy guy who has 11 dogs...he probably would not mind adopting one of them out, once you have returned from your next major trip...best of all, I believe he would offer free petsitting for your future trips, especially if you wanted TWO of the dogs! ;)

Patty,

Are you kidding...after flying Business Class from LAX - Amsterdam, I will be slumming it in Economy class from Amsterdam - Kiliminjaro.

"Will Work For Frequent Flier Miles!" :(

Rocco,

I'm in SF not LA but will definitely be picking up my next pooch from a rescue org. With 11 dogs you may be able to classify as one, too, you know.

Thanks for thinking of me. I think.

Also, isn't it strange that suddenly everyone says they don't have any FF miles?

Me:
No kids
No frequent flyer miles
No kidding
No culling (me)

XOXO
((@))

Me=
Newly single
No kids
Four cats
Some stray neighborhood cats
Some FF miles
New business owner
No money!

Me:
No sleep
No frequent flier miles
No time to travel to non-Africa destinations
No idea how I got here! ;)

Leely,

Yes, I thought of you with the best intentions for each you and my pooches. I have two brothers, each about 18 months, who are unfortunately literally at each others necks. My house already is divided into separate cellblocks to prevent Scooter (a Corgi) and Gunther (a Shepherd/Chow mix) from killing each other. Not enough cellblocks to further divide them. On their own they are each sweet dogs, Dudley looking like a Gorilla and Batman looking like...well, I'll let you figure that one out.

In any event...sorry about your recent loss of your companion. I have been with dogs for over seven years now and have not lost one yet. Instead of the jumbos in Kruger, perhaps there needs to be a cull of some of my dogs! ;)

Thanks for the kind words, Patty and Rocco.

Roccco, when I first got my dog (in 1992!) she was a bit wild. A pit from the pound. I saw a "dog whisperer"--expensive but incredibly worth it. The first thing he did was have me watch a documentary on wolves so that I could better understand the behavior of pack animals.

I know you have your fingers in a lot pies, but that was one of the best investments I ever made. It made owning her sooo very easy. She was happier and I sure was too!

Good luck with the menagerie.

me:
no kids
1 psychologically challenged dog
2 cats
the most useless collection of frequent flier miles in history
no culling, but i'd gladly relocate to Zambia to ease the overpopulation of Hawaii :)
Dennis

me:
1 kid (grown thank god)
no grandkids
2 dogs (1 pound puppy and 1 purebred)
very few FF miles after booking Zambia
1,000 more places to see before I die!

Leely - we've had 2 akitas, 1 lab, 1 golden retriever, and 1 cockapoo (who lived to be 18 and then fell in our pool and drowned). Also multiple cats over the years. Loved and cherished them all, each one as much or more than the one before (guess it's just human nature to love the one you're with...). My motto is "never let more than a month pass without a pet, or two or three." Preferably dogs :) Hope you find your new canine soul mate soon. Sharon T.

I have
no kids
8 cats (1 blind)
3 dogs
Frequent flier miles sufficient for Dubai to Bahrain or Bangkok to Kuala Lumpur
10% travel but only via Frankfurt and only if you marry my wife who would not be pleased with you over my culling

No kids = No school fees, no clothes allowance, no latest trendy toy costs, no taxi service, no nappy bills...

Not very many FF miles

No pets
No debts
No regrets

No culling here either, please!

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Kavey,

You have taken things to a new level with the rhyming! Sorry, I cannot compete with that.

I do like that, however, no pets, no debts, no regrets...although I don't think I could do without the debts (as my Corgi is sitting here loving me, probably sensing that I am leaving with suitcases and clothes everywhere).