BOTSWANA - Here we go again! Where to stay, etc.
 

After getting so much information from such great people regarding my last inquiry, I am now rethinking my trip. As I mentioned a few days ago, my husband and I and another couple are planning a trip to Southern Africa in mid-October, 2010. I am taking the suggestion that we skip Cape Town seriously. I have left an email with my friend to see what she and her husband think. We have traveled enough that I think the suggestion that we skip Cape Town might be a good one. After all, we are primarily going to see the beautiful animals in their natural habitat.

I'm almost ready to give this all up but I'm forging ahead with plans and new ideas.

This brings me to my question regarding Botswana...I'm thinking 3 nights in the Okavango Delta and 3 nights in Linyanti? If that would work then which camps would you recommend. I guess we would do a Classic Camp for we want to go to the Lion Sands Ivory Lodge, as well.

Do any of the camps in Botswana have any combo deals?

I will appreciate any and all replies.

Fran

Mid Oct 2010 is too far for any "deals".
If the credit crunch shouts its impact far into 2010 then most probably there will be deals coming out as well. But not before the camps and lodges get into the early months of the year and see whether people are still reluctant to commit long in advance.

But you can do an early research on camps which are appealling to you - in any case.

For the Delta experience: I e.g. like Baines camp very much. Intimate (only 5 chalets) right WITHIN the Delta; chalets are built on top of the a lagoon) Excellent accommodation, great lounge and restaurant, very personal, very good game drives (incl. the costly Elephant walks at the sister camp Stanleys)
www.sanctuarylodges.com

Then I would consider Savute area for the Savannah part.

Happy Planning.

SV

Do a search for info on the ele walks. Most people are thrilled with them.

In the Linyanti area there is Savute Lodge, managed by Desert and Delta. There is also Savuti Camp by Wilderness.

When I ran into an exterminator who went to almost every camp in the delta, I asked his favorite camps. The answer was Duba Plains and Savuti Camp.

Duma Tau, the only place I have stayed of those mentioned, is in Linyanti and also very nice.

You have a great trip taking shape.

I recently returned from Botswana, we were there in May/June (i have a trip report, with photos if you wanted a look.)

We stayed in Wilderness camps. I found of the camps we stayed in, that Chitabe and Savuti had the best game. Both are 5 paw camps. The guides at both camps were very good, food very good, (and very plentiful). 3 nights was ideal for us, though we did stay at 2 camps for 2 nights, I felt 3 was better.

amy

baines camp and chitabe camp are close to each other. baines is owned by A&K's subsidiary sanctuary lodge. chitabe is owned by wilderness safaris.

in the linyanti, my favorite camps are duma tau and savuti as well. i have been to both. i have also been in the savute. savute (with an e) is anywhere on the savute channel inside the chobe. savuti (with an i) is the same ecosystem but west of the chobe on the private linyanti land. savtui camp (wilderness) and savute safari lodge (D&D) are less than 20 miles apart.

i suggest chitabe for three nights and duma tau OR savuti for three nights. keep in mind than neither one of these camps have water activities so if you want to fish, boat, or mokorro, you can't do that in these camps. if you want water activites then i would add one of the following camps for two nights and take away one night at chitabe: little vumbura, kwetsani, tubu tree, jacana, or xigera.

i seriously doubt wilderness safaris is going to discount next year's high season. in fact, they are going to review their 2010 rates by august 31, 2009. my guess is that they will raise their rates and take away the discounts in place right now (stay7pay6). this will not effect people under deposit by that date. bookings are very strong for next year especially the months after the world cup. i really have no idea but this is what i suspect.

craig beal

Going to Southern Africa and missing Cape Town, one of the world's most beautiful cities, would not be my suggestion. But it depends on how much time you have and how you want to spend it.
I'd also recommend, as would most on this board, 3 nights at each camp. We went to 5 camps in Bots 2 years ago: Chitabe, Kwando Lagoon, Little Vumbura, Kwetsani and Jack's Camp (in the Kalahari). This offered an amazing array of landscapes and unbelievable diversity of wildlife. (We went in November, VERY hot. So's Oct.) Kwando was the most basic (it may be upgraded by now) but had the most genuine staff and African ambiance. Kwetsani won't have any water surrounding it that time of year, but you can do some water activites like canoeing not far away (I prefer local Botswanans to the South Africans who were running Kwetsani at that time), and the wildlife was the least interesting/diverse, but the tree-top rooms are great. Little Vumbura is a fabulous, and very upscale, camp that you take a boat to; accommodations are swank and gorgeous, but they cater to a bit snootier crowd IMO. Chitabe was our least favorite, though we saw wild dogs.
One suggestion: Why not skip South Africa (and Ivory Lodge) altogether and head straight to Bots and do 3 camps Classic Camps there? If you stick with Wilderness or Delta camps it'll be much easier planning and transportation, and maybe cheaper. What agent are you using?

Craig is surely correct that after the World Cup the safari camps will be booked, and at top rates.

World Cup in SA is June 11 - July 11. I can see SA safari camps, and Botswana, being busy then and two weeks or so on either side of those dates. But for it to extend into October? Are fans/tourists going to go to World Cup and then staying around for another 2-3 months? Lucky people those.

regards - tom

Why so discouraged? Southern Africa is amazing. It's worth the trouble.

Kings Pool in Linyati is beautiful, Duba Plains is famous for its lions and Vumbura was over the top nice. All had amazing game sightings. Classic Camps are perfect (Duba being one). For my taste I would not go to 6 paw camps again, but that's just me. All of the camps in Bots are high quality - they pay a lot of money for those leases, so I can't imagine that any of them would be disappointing. There is a special going on at Wilderness this year, but next year I'm hoping everything will be booked full for the World Cup. But it's in June/July so you are going well after the crowds leave. You are so close to Victoria Falls while in the Delta - don't miss it.

October is starting to get really hot and the rain might start early. (But we were just in Bots and it rained in June - that never happens!!)

We just came back from our second safari, and please stay in any one place for at least three days. Two makes it too rushed and four was great.

In normal years, October can be extremely hot (it's called the suicide month) so although gameviewing can be rewarding as a lot of herbivores are in poor condition before the first rains, conditions can be a bit unpleasant.
Given the unpredactibility of the weather patterns in recent times, there is a possibility of early rainfall by which the plains game disperse into the woodlands.

In the WS portofolio, Chitabe and Savuti usually have good gameviewing. Duba plains which doesn't have the variety of plains game (like other places) I would only recommend if you are keen to see lions hunting buffalo. Take into mind, that most of the kills are made during the day and following them during the middle of the day will be unpleasant if it's a hot day.

These days NG32, the area in which Baines and Stanley's is located doesn't have the best reputation and it's the only place where I have seen animals with snares. Also Sanctuary lodges tends to focus more than the other operators on the experience in the camp itself.

Today the camps typically focussing on water activities are in my opinion totally overpriced as you don't need to be in a private concession and pay top rates for seeing mainly birdlife.

The best gameviewing from a boat is on a cruise on the Chobe river where besides the birdlife, you'll have good chances to see elephants/hippos and crocodiles and consider all other mammals as a bonus. Keep in mind that it's a quite popular thing to do so it can be crowded but I find it still one of the most rewarding things to do for people who go for their first time to Botswana.

I find it extremely annoying that agents keep pushing their clients to book far way in advance especially in economical conditionas as today.

- Camps aren't full by today but maybe blockbooked by TA's.
-

I accidentially submitted my post so here's the rest:

- Better deals can be reached later on if agents see they can't fill up the assigned number of bednights.
- Also if it has been an extremely wet year and not all of the pans dried out, you have the chance of paying top rates for ordinary gameviewing. By booking now you don't know what the impact of the rainy season/floods will be.

I would highly doubt if WS and others are going pushing up their prices and creating even a wider gap between their product and the ones of their competitors (in and outside the country). Nowadays some operators are asking the highest rates in November. Well I can only see greediness for that. At the moment, pricing in peak season for most of the camps is not in line with the quality (gameviewing/...) you can expect.

I won't see any affects on the Botswana safari industry in October 2010 from the World Cup being held in June/July. Given the dubious relationship between TA/WS I would take their advice with a big sack of salt as their agents are highly rewarded by pushing clients towards their product (even sometimes by exaggerating a lot or giving sometimes misleading information).

I would have to agree with Johan on most of his points.

Do not feel pressured into booking camps a year in advance. If you look at the availability for this October, there is still space available at a number of the camps highly recommnded by other fodorites.

Here is a link to the availability at Duma Tau for this October, more than three tents available on a number of nights.

http://africatravelresource.com/T1/a...intro&Nudge=-1

Do not believe the agents hard sell. Camps still have visitors this year as many had booked prior to the collapse of Lehman Borthers. I can not see next year improving.

In terms of the time of year, October over the last two years has had indifferent weather. I would recommend late September, as you minimize the chance of having your game viewing impacted on by early rains and alot of wildlife disappearing into the woodlands.

Whilst the Linyanti is being talked about, there are actually three distinct areas, Kwando, Selinda and the Linyanti Concession, all similar, but different.

Having been to Selinda, Zib (now Zarafa), Savuti, Kings Pool and the Kwando Camps, I feel that I have enjoyed the better game viewing at in the Kwando Concession - the accommodations though are not on a similar level to WS.

The problem with the area is the recent increase in water flows, changing the dynamics of the area.

The level of the water and channel flowing through Mopane woodlands has had the effect of shorting the peak season. For example, elephant herds can stay in the mopane woodlands along the spillway and have water sources close at hand.

Previously, the herds would have to move into the open flood plains to get to the permanent water sources. Ofcourse, you can still drive along the channel edges and have good viewing, though it is a different experience to that of a couple of years ago.

With the Channel likely to reach the Marsh, it will be interesting to see if the migrating herds move back to the Linyanti region following this wet season.

I would look into subsituting the Linyanti for Savuti Marsh. Booking later will allow to ensure the water has reached the region. It was the place where the Jouberts first started filming when the channel last flowed.

FOr such a short trip, look at Andbeyonds mobile camp, a bargain at $600 for peak season.

http://www.andbeyondafrica.com/luxur...d_savute/rates

You can't offroad like in the private areas and they are a little busier, though this camp is small and appears to offer an intimate atmosphere compared to other option in the area.

I people could become surprised at the massive transformations that will occur to Game viewing in the Savute region of Chobe National Park.

*I should add, Savute under canvas in not a mobile safari as such. More a seasonal style camps you find when following the migration in East Africa.

To add to both Johan and Russell (who have been to Bots many many times, and not your average 3 night camp visits at that- they know what they are talking about) ......... in terms of photography, there is a good chance of fires late in the dry season making the skies hazy - more so these days, due to the obvious growth of the grass from the rainfall patterns and possibility of heavy burning.

Having said that, I am due for a dry season visit end of September into October to both the Delta and Linyanti. I know I'm in great hands with my guide friend and tracker extraordinaire (LK and Lebala)...... that, if the animals are around - they are gonna find them!

Both the above posts talk about changing patterns - I did notice that last year, when I spent two weeks in the Kwando concession - the Elephant and buffalo herds were more dispersed. Yet, I had a great trip as the guiding makes a huge difference - not to forget the memorable cheetah/dog/leopard viewing. Lions were also dispersed with the dispersion of the buffalo herds. Who's complaining ........ ;)

I can't see how or why WS or any other operator would make a price increase for 2010 - Kwando have already announced their 2010 rates earlier this year keeping them the same. Although, the food and wine does not compare to WS, their emphasis on the bush and maintaining a relaxed/ homely atmosphere is good enough reason for me to keep returning.

As in the other posts, I seriously don't think the 2010 world cup has anything to do with Botswana or Zambia for that matter. Most football fans would be adding on a short safari - mostly to the Greater Kruger (with the many options depending on budget levels). They would probably add on Cape Town and perhaps, Vic Falls.........

I personally can't talk of D&D or Sanctuary as I haven't been. Infact, no desire to try them...... I can talk about Selinda, WS and Kwando obviously where I have been to!

Regards - Hari

skimmer (johan) and lbj2 (russel? employee of kwando?) -

you guys were doing so well in the beginning on this thread. you were actually providing travel advice and naming camps, etc. but, as usualy, you couldn't resist attacking me for being a travel agent and got off topic. i encourage you not to focus on me. let's focus on the traveler needing advice. fran is not a client of mine and i have no idea who she is. she is simply someone who has been getting lots of advice from me over the past two weeks thanking me every step of the way. i would not be surprised if she contacted me at some point as i think she trusts my advice, but that will be her decision.

wilderness safaris released rates for 2010 several months ago. they did raise prices by adding back the duba surcharge. when the current round of specials expire on august 31, prices will effectively go up about 15% as the stay7pay6 deals will go away. of course, i am not sure if they will simply keep that scheme in place.

the world cup is forcing people to change their travel plans until later parts of the dry season. you can see this effect on camp space during the july 15-august 31, 2010 period. booking now or waiting is up to the customer. any agent with clout will be able to apply future discounts to their clients under deposit should prices drop in the future. this is called price protection and is quite common in the cruise industry.

the availability chart that lbj2 pasted into this thread is not the real availability of the camps in botswana. africa travel resource is a travel agency in the UK. they have an informative web site but the camp availability is only as updates as the last time the human being responsible made the changes. no camp operator in botswana has live web inventoy of camp availability, including wilderness safaris. it is not possible for a static website to have live inventor.

wilderness safaris has semi-live inventory. any agent with a password can log-in and display the camp availaibility as of the close of business the night before. i often do a screen capture and email this to clients so they can decide for themselves what is available and what decision they want to make regarding booking.

fran - good luck!

craig beal

Wow! I am overwhelmed by the response by all of you. THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH. I take everything under advisement and am thrilled with the information provided. I will surely make an informed decision.

Going back to the first scenario I had...I know I've received air info before but i there a way to get from Maun to Lion Sands without having to overnight in JNB?

More to come on all of this, I'm sure.

Also, is there a way to directly email any of you?

Thanks.

Fran

Is there a way I can get individual email addresses?

Fran,

Your question has generated some good and detailed info.

One thing you need to consider when you state you want one delta camp is if you want to spend time in the actual waters of the delta on a mokoro or similar or just be in the region.

If you <b>don't</b> want to be poled through the delta or experience it in a small boat, then Chitabe has some of the best wildlife sightings of the various delta camps. There is not enough water in the region for boating or mekoring.

If experiencing the waters of the Okavango Delta up close and personal by floating on them in some kind of vessel is what you want, then some of the "water" camps mentioned would be better. If doing solely a water camp with very little land activity, I think 2 nights would be fine, and I'm someone who usually likes to stay 3 nights or longer.

I didn't see Little Vumbura (or the more expensive Vumbura Plains) mentioned. Maybe I missed it. This is a delta camp with water and land activities. When I was there, the only water activity I chose to do was the 10-minute boat ride to get to the Little Vumbura Camp. Otherwise I did all land. Vumbura is near Duba Plains, where the lions are famous for daytime hunts. This daytime hunting characteristic was also practiced by the Kubu pride at Vumbura and I saw two hunts, one successful, during the day. Other guests saw cheetah and leopard while I was there or just before I got there, but I did not. It is one of the few places to find sable. I saw one. The water habitat, complete with herds of red lechwe splashing as they run, is an attractive feature of the delta, and one you may want to include.

Good luck on your plans.

To make your decision more complicated, there's Mapula Lodge with land and water activities. That place would be high on my list for any future Botswana travel, especially late in the season, when you are going.

If WS is going to increase again by 15 % (without enhencing service or other add-ons) then it's even more high time to consider to shift towards other decent camps.

This is ripping off and as long as people pay these unreasoned increases they won't stop!

I am in the mood to ask for a boycott.

SV

Craig,

Would it not be a matter where people are booking later in the dry season, as the water levels(floods) (given today's pricing) makes it a tad bit more worthwhile visiting later in the dry season? Unless, you are selling the fishing/mekero/boat/spot the pied King Fisher (our roads are mostly flooded) experience?

It may not have have anything to do with the World Cup. Those dates you have mentioned - end July into August is typical travel time for people in Europe. A lot of (manufacturing) companies for example., do close for 2-3 weeks this time of the year on holidays. This allows for people to travel.

Craig,

At which point did I attack you? I simply mentioned do not always believe the agent hard sell. I have faced similar tactics only to arrive at an empty camp - it is much about sharing travel experience as naming camps.

An employee of Kwando? I think you may have got your wires crossed there, I am afraid. A repeat guest to Kwando and WS, yes.

I did actually spend time working in Botswana in 2005, though it was with Desert and Delta.

Would be interesting to see how I can work for Kwando when I currently live in Seoul, and prior to that, Dubai.

Fortunately, I have been able in the last couple of years to have the opportunity to indulge in a lot of photography across Southern Africa.

It is easier to discuss areas in general, as it is hard on a forum to determine what expectations the guest has? I try not to advise on camps unless I have been there in the last couple of months. Even then, a lot of the game viewing is changing as these evironments are dynamic.

As for availability and booking early.

I spent 3/4 months on Safari in 2007, through the peak season(Botswana,Zim and Zambia). I did not book in advance and organised everything once I arrived in Africa. I had no problem finding space at the higher end camps through a number of countries, inludes WS. (at highly competitive rates too. At least a 50-60% saving)

The same applied when I went for 3 weeks in May 2008.

I appreciate that a number of people cannot book using this late booking method. Though it demonstrates that even through the high season, there is availability at WS, Kwando Camps, AndBeyond and Sanctuary.

My point was based on my experience, over 120 safari days in the last two years. I have found that agents' claims of no availability without booking a year in advance, as you have dicussed, is not reflected on the ground. Though I don't want to debate this in the Fran's thread.

I was using this point to illustrate the point that it is ok to wait longer to book and determine your game viewing based on how the rainy for 09/10 turns out and current reports.

I am sure you can appreciate the effect that early rains and late rains have on the environment. That is one reason why I would advise going in September.

It also took until Feb/March of this year for WS's offers to come on to the market following a fall in demand.

As for the availability chart at ATR, it is updated every business day to my knowledge. Whilst it may not be live availability, it gives the consumer the opportunity to see what the demand is. Compared to previous years - far lower in 2009.

ATR is a travel agency and has a person dedicated to updating this service. Having never used them, I could not comment on their TA skills however.

http://africatravelresource.com/T9/1...0rue/staff.asp

Fran,

You need to sit down and ask yourself a couple of questions before deciding on which camp.

1) What are you expectations in terms of accommodation, food etc.

2) What are your interests -Birds, General game, the cats, elephants?

Each area will provide a slightly different safari experience based on these preferences.

3) Obviously, budget is always in the question.

4) What seasonal impact could occur in the area you am visiting? Quite an important consideration if you are going in October

5) What are the current dynamics in the area?

- The heavy rainfall over Botswana and large floods could keep animals deep in the mopane as seasonal pans do not dry out.

- heavy rainfall aslo creates a lot of fuel for dry season fires. This can affect photography.

This could getting a little technical some may argue, though the point I am trying to make is set out your own criteria and select and itinerary around that, do not feel the need to neccessarily go somewhere by agents or people on forums.

As long as you set out to see nothing but impala, you should arrive back at camp more than happy.

Fran,

I can only agree with what Russell and Hari mentioned in their posts. As the final decision will be yours we can only give you some advice in one way or the other. And I don't ask you to believe me ... I leave that to your own judgment.

As WS is marketed quite heavily in the States, you'll read a lot more about them here than of any other operator. Also it is by far the dominant player in the Botswana safari industry.

As I am quite familiar with a lot of the operators in Botswana, I read a lot of stuff posted by people with a commercial interest, which is actually misleading.

What Russell mentioned about camps being not fully occupied is very true. I experienced it during all seasons (with all operators) over a long timespan and I also heard it from people on the ground (working in the camps). Given the economical conditions, a lot of operators are facing a downfall in occupancy and 2010 will be more of the same ...

Although I highly doubt if WS will raise their prices for 2010 one can never know but a price increase will definitely have a negative impact on their bookings.

As I don't want to hijack this thread I invite Craig to open a new one in which he can elaborate why he thinks our info (TA's relationship with WS/choice of camps/green season vs dry season) is misleading. I am sure it will be of most interest to people who are planning to visit Botswana.

Johan

fran - there is no way to get from the okavango delta to the sabi sands without using some form of a private charter or missing most of your game drives that day. there is a 1000am flight from maun to johannesburg that you can then connect to nelspruit or hoedspruit then road transfer to the sabi sands. you will have to miss 2 hours of the morning drive and some of the afternoon drive in south africa if you do this and the day will be very rushed and long.

contacting people - many people on fodors have their contact details in their profile. all you need to do is click on their screen name (lbj2, skimmer, safari_craig, etc) and read their profile details.

russel (lbj2) - thanks for clarifying and i misread your post. i see what you are saying and agree with you on some points. do keep in mind that fran has been seeking advice on several travel forums for two weeks. i feel she is going to go to africa in october 2010 no matter what. i think it is to her benefit to book and make deposit as soon as she is ready. that way, she is sure she will get the camps she wants. little vumbura has five tents... anyway - it really is of no concern to me as she is not my client and i am not responsible for her getting what she wants. personal note: i have visited dubai and i have also been to korea three times. i used to be responsible for staffing all US naval officers in korea when i had a desk job in the navy. i later returned on a submarine when i was on sea duty as a navy officer. i liked the charcoal-on-the-table restaurants.

johan - i laid out my opinions on green season/dry season in the other forum last week. i am not sure where i said you were misleading. i am an agent for wilderness safaris. i also am an agent for D&D, kwando, sanctuary, & orient express. by this, i mean i have a contracts with them and can make direct bookings if i want. that is the extent of my relationship... i would love to return our banter to a gentlemanly exchange of opinions.

craig beal

Hi everyone. Thanks for your input. Believe me, as you all can see, I'm not exactly rushing into anything. The way it seems to be shaping up with our "group" is:
Cape Town - yes, we're going - 3 nights
Take late afternoon flight on the 4th day in CT to JNB and overnight at airport.
The next morning, fly to Chief's Camp (stay 3 nights)
Fromt here we'd like to do the Ivory Lodge in Lion Sands for 3 nights.
Here's the logistics problem. It looks like we'd stay in CT 3 nights and on the 4th day take the late afternoon flight to JNB and stay over at the airport. Then we'd set out the next morning for Chief's Camp.
We'd like to end at the Ivory Lodge but that seems to mean that we would have to go back to JNB, stay over yet again, and leave the next morning for Lion Sands. I seem to like this order because it's saving the best for last but if it doesn't sound logistically good, I guess we could do that first and then go to Chief's.
Looking forward to hearing from you guys! Fran

Oops...I accidentally sent the above but didn't edit it. It doesn't read well but you get the gist.

Well, maybe this has been suggested before (was somewhere on some thread :-) ), skip Chief's camp and spend 6 nights at Ivory Lodge. Works for me, I like several nights in a camp.

regards - tom

Craig,

I don't hold anything against you as a person as we haven't met. So it would be a bit strange if it was the other way around.

During recent posts here and by reading on other forums, I noticed we have completely different ideas about a lot of aspects (when it comes to safaris in Botswana). It's almost black and white ... so because of our opposite views I used the term "misleading". Of course, it's not that you are completely right and I am completely wrong. (or vice versa) But it's certainly not half/half.

Maybe as an agent it's not easy to say what you really think without hurting your own business interests ... one of the reasons I think to carefully act as a TA when posting on travel boards like this.

But you also have to understand that for people who are familiar with what's happening behind the scenes,it's annoying to read the marketing talk (and advice) used here and on other places as it isn't always in line with reality.

So once more I invite you to discuss these issues with me on a separate thread (f.e. permanent camps and their pricing /why you need to book far away in advance/green season and the delta). And let's hope that such a thread can be fruitful for people planning a safari to Botswana.

Johan

fran - i think botswana will be an equally good ending. but, it is easy (and common) to leave lion sands at normal check-out time using any combination of normal transfer methods to JNB (car, tranfer, transfer + commercial, or charter) and make it to jnb in time for all the flights home that night/afternoon.

thanks johan. i appreciate your last responses. we can probably exchange our opinions withing the framework of other peoples threads and still stick to the subject. if you do start a discussion, i will gladly participate in a non-hostile manner.

craig beal

Cary999, I was assuming that, as others have suggested, the World Cup overload would mean regular visitors would be forced to push back trips to Sept./Oct. But what do I know? Travel is still way down, but things change, and as the stock market rises so, presumably, do bookings.
Francifree, if you read many trip reports here you'll see a common complaint from returning safarigoers: They tried to do too much, spending too much time in transit. Flitting about, they were exhausted all the time. Not the way I like to spend my holidays. It's tiring enough being up at dawn each day.

If you are considering waiting on making reservations for next year, I suggest you build up a relationship with a Botswana TA. There are some changes in discussion which may effect rates to foreign owned companies. Its rumor, but my contacts in Maun say quite possible.

that would be an intersting development!

LAL- I see your point now. Is May-June-July peak time in SA, Bots? In other words, IF May-June-July is off season for camps (winter) then maybe the camps can easily handle the extra World Cup visitors? You know, I'm going to email my TA who specializes in SA and ask him about all of this.

regards - tom

To follow up on what Luangwablondes says,

I can highly recommend two very good agents in Maun -

1.) Safari Destinations - google them - if you write an email, do so to Karin Bullock - she knows Botswana, Zambia etc etc., as she has lived and worked there her entire life!

2.) The Booking Company - a very good agent there - Ernest.

Either one will make great choices as an agent - and people who know what they are doing!

I have also had a good experience dealing with The Booking Company (I have been dealing with Steffi Presske) -- prompt responses, answers to the questions that I've asked, information that has allowed me to make informed choices.

By the way, has anyone heard of Maxim Tours, Ltd. and if so, any feedback?

Also, while we are thinking of going to the Ivory Lodge in Lion Sands, I find it interesting that no one in the thread mentioned any of the Singita properties. I'm wondering, "why."

fran - i have been to singita boulders and ebony. i did not mention it because of price. two weeks ago on trip advisor your budget was $6,000 per person for land. singita is about $1,600 per person per night and i think you want to be in africa more than four days!

craig beal

I'll have to look back to see what I said. As of now, we'd like to do the entire trip (with air to/from US) for about 17,000 or 18,000. That's with inter/intra Africa air, all hotels, meals not included, rental car in Cape Town, etc. The way I rationalize it is that we didn't take a trip last year nor will we take another big one til 2012. I had mentioned the Ivory Lodge but if there's a Singita experience in SA that is comparable, I'd be interested. Actually, doing the Ivory Lodge adds an extra 3000 to our trip (and so would a Singita) so I'm thinking that we may not be able to do it. However, if you'd like to help support my mom, then the sky's the limit!!!!

Oops...I meant 17000 or 18000 WITHOUT air to/from US.

per person, per couple, or all four of you?

craig