Binoculars - Night V's Day - Advice Sought
 

We have a pair of binocs each - that seemed perfectly adequate for the last trip. they were not expensive! As we are now truly smitten with Southern Africa and anybody who has seen us post over the past month or so would know we are KEEN to get the very best out of our 2008 Mega-Safari.

So questions are
1.What kind of binocs are best Night or Day?
2.Would it be worthwhile to have (at least one pair) of night binocs
3.Can these also be used during the day? (We are worried about weight here.)
4. Any reccomendations fr a reasonably priced pair of night binocs?

Night binocs......i dont know the answer, others can give their opinion.

Yes, carry a good pair of binocs for the day-time....if you are two people you rather carry one per person....

From memory, you are going to the top camps....so, even though your guides will have a good pair in the car...i recommend you carry your own...

After my first safari, binoculars were one of my first sacrifices in the interests of travelling light. Camera equipment is more important to me. But if you can fit them into your baggage limits and there are two of you, why not take one of each? I think you'll get far more use out of day binoculars, but if you want to cover all bases, and are happy to share (which I generally do not favour), why not adopt a compromise? Or take two day-time and one night-vision pair so you have to share only at night?

Sorry, I can't speak with any authority about makes and prices. My only binoculars are extremely good glass Nikon, and my interest in taking them to Africa expired after my first safari.

John

useful for birding.....

If you have never tried image stabilized binoculars, take yours to a shop that has them and compare. I'll be suprised if you don't want a pair. Ibut probably sold 50 pairs for Canon (wish I was a salesman) by loaning ours to people on game drives with us. For the average person the difference is striking.

The vast majority of the binocular use I get is for birding. We definitely need two pairs because we are both interested in the birds. If you're not looking at birds then I'm not sure how much you would need your own pair, most mammals get pretty close to vehicles.

our canon image stabilization binocs were awesome!

I have a pair of Zeiss binocs (10x42) that I got before my first trip in 2001. It was the best purchase I made. Even though expensive the advantage to a binoc with a large diameter (10x42 vs 10x30 for example) is that it allows more light in and this is especially useful very early around sunrise and later in the day and even at dusk and evening. I think their optics are spectacular. While I am a big Canon guy I have never liked the image stabilized binocs. but I know many do. I do think it is important to try a number of pairs, Zeiss, Nikon, canon, pentax,Olympus,
Steiner, Schneider are all well known names that have different options at different price points. The better ones are a bit heavy so if there is an issue with steady hands the image stabilized ones may be a good idea (10x30 or 12x36 ...i think the 15x45 is overkill).
For my late teen early 20's kids I got 10x30 Nikon
Diafun binocs that are certainly acceptable and while sturdy, are much lighter than the Zeiss ones I use.
Regards,
Eric

I absolutely love my Pentax waterproof binoculars! They've been with me on every safari, and even in the worst weather conditions, I never have to worry.

http://www.pentaximaging.com/product.../dcf_wp_ii.jsp

Hello,

I have a pair of Leica 10x42s and I agree with Eric on the advantages of the larger objective -- I was able to see a lot more at dawn and dusk than my companions with 10x25s.

I do think that binoculars are one area where you pretty much get what you pay for -- the higher-end ones have phenomenal optics and are built to last, whereas less expensive ones may not. A good mid-range pair like the Nikon or Pentax seems to serve most people well.

One thing to consider re the night vision vs day binoculars question is that most nighttime game-viewing is done with a spotlight. I'm definitely not an expert in this area, but my understanding is that this will render night-vision binoculars pretty much useless as they read the infrared portion of the spectrum -- you'd be able to see anything outside the spotlight, but nothing that was actually being spotlit.

It might be fun to sit around camp and look out into the dark and see what's looking back, though...

Cheers,
Julian

I like the waterproof feature of my binocs as well.

Thanks all for your advice - leaning towards just using the binocs we have!

Julian said
"One thing to consider re the night vision vs day binoculars question is that most nighttime game-viewing is done with a spotlight."

Hadn't thought of that...makes sense.

and "It might be fun to sit around camp and look out into the dark and see what's looking back, though..."

OR maybe not!!!!

Julian,

There are two kinds of "night vision" devices. Some rely on detecting infrared radiation (IR) and in that case the spotlight would not help or hurt. The animals themselves would emit more IR because they are warmer than the background. These are usually quite expensive and are used for search and rescue, etc. The other devices use visible light (or in some cases near-IR which is very similar to red light but just outside the visible range). These just amplify the available light and are often called starlight scopes (or binos) and will benefit from the use of a spotlight. The ones that operate in the near IR will include a small built-in IR light for illumination. These are the ones normally sold to consumers.

George

Hi George,

Thanks for the info - as I said, I'm definitely not an expert on the subject and it's good to learn a bit more about it.

Personally, with the spotlight and my Leicas (also completely waterproof) I've never felt the need for night vision binoculars on safari -- they just seemed like one more thing to lug around.

Cheers,
Julian

I'm in full agreement with Stakirk and Tuckeg. The Canon image stabilized binos are fantastic. I have never lent them to anyone who didn't want to replace their current binos for the Canons after a try. I'm sort of a bino collector in that I have Nikon, Zeiss, Leica, Fujinon and Minolta binoculars. I bought them all before the Canon image stabilized were available. I used to use them for sailing and for birding. Now however, I use the Canon image stabilized for everything. As one of the earlier posters suggested, go to a store (some Ritz camera shops sell them) and try a pair. Ther is really no way to appreciate the difference without trying them for yourself. As far a night vision for safari, I wouldn't think of it. The slightest bit of light will blind you and unless everyone, including the driver and tracker are wearing them and all lights are turned off, they will be useless. Also, the image seen through night vision optics is less than ideal. I use them for night sailing and they can be useful for making landfall after dark but I would never bother taking them along on safari. The image stabilized Canon 10 X 30 are small, water resistant and can be had for just over $300 from well known online photo sellers like Adorama.

By the way, you cannot use night vision optics during the day.
Chuck

Thanks for the extra info safarichuck - Will definately go to a photo optical store and try a pair of Canon IS binocs - they sound great.

You might have encouraged me to make the jump to image stabilization.

I feel I must have at least 10 x 40. Plus they must be waterproof. That feature is not so much for Africa, but other wetter spots.

In searching around the web I saw these, which are apparently new.

Canon 10x42L IS WP Image Stabilizers - Waterproof - New Model!
sku: 0155B002

The bad news is they are around $1200.

Hi atravelynn,
The model you refer to is really more for boating (sailing) and extreme conditions. Forgive me if I'm telling you something you already know, but the second number in the equation 10 X 40 refers to the exit pupil of the binocular lens and is a direct measure of the light gathering ability of the optic. The first number (10) refers to the magnification. Usually there is plenty of light on safari (except for night drives) so that an exit pupil over 30 is really unecessary. Not only unecessary but undesireable as well because it makes the binoculars larger and much heavier. Heavy binoculars are difficult to keep steady for more than a few moments and looking through them for an extended period of minutes really causes a lot of eye fatigue. My wife is used to handleing heavy marine binoulars (7 X 50) but they are just used for a few moments to verify navigation marks at sea. On safari these cause us both to shake and we can hold them steady for only a minute or two. The small 10X image stabilized binos can be held for many minutes without any eye fatigue and a perfectly stable image. Last year on the Serengeti, my wife watched a Cheetah stalk prey for nearly 10 minutes and let me know just before it launched so that I could capture it with a big telephoto camera lens. I couldn't keep my eye on the camera viewfinder that long (it was about 105 degrees). Canon also makes a slightly smaller 8X image stabilized binocular but I don't recommend them because they use a less effective stabilization method than the 10 X 30 pair I first recommended. In fact that system is pretty much the same as the one in the $1200 pair you mentioned in your post. Hope this helps at bit.
Chuck

In 10x40 binoculars, the second number, 40 is the diameter of the objective lens in mm. The exit pupil (in mm) of the binoculars is the second number divided by the first in this 4mm.

For more info:

http://focuscamera.com/sc/infopage.a...ame=binoculars

One number that's rarely mentioned when talking about bins, but can be quite important (especially for spectacle wearers) in the eye-relief. This describes how far back from the eyepiece your eye can be and still see the whole image. Glasses wearers obviously cannot get their eyes as close to the eyepiece as non-wearers. So they need a longer eye relief.

It's the only thing I dislike about my 10x30 IS Canons, and why I take a pair of 8x42 non-stabilised bins on Safari.

Atravelynn & Thembi,
I just oticed that the 10 X 30 Canon IS binos are on sale for $329 at Adorama and the 8 X 25's are $225. Sometimes Canon runs a $50 rebate deal in the spring so you might want to keep an eye open for that deal. Also I note your interest in "waterproof". Only the marine binoculars are truely waterproof and you will pay a fancy premium for these, However the 10X30's are rubber coated and water resistant. A light spray or driz wont harm them. Not so for the 8X25's.

More good info. Thanks!

Fbirder, wouldn't poeple wearing sunglasses experience that same problem you descrice as those who wear glasses to correct vision?

Don't most binocs have an eye cup that rolls up or down to account for this? I adjust my eye cup on my current binocs for sunglasses or naked eye.

Yes, most, but not all, good quality binoculars use fold down eyecups to get around the eye relief problem. However if you plan to wear glasses of any kind when using the binos, you need to check this before purchasing.

Good quality bins have eycups that twist up/down which make them a lot easier to adjust, especially if you find you need them halfway up.

I find some bins difficult to use even with the eyecups all the way down. My current ones (Swift 8.5x44) need them raised by around 2mm.

I guess sunglasses would cause the same problems.

been to southafrica three times if you go to the right private game lodge they put you up so close to the animals binocs are a waist youll never youse them

Blackwell, but you could still need a pair of binoculars for those skittish birds. I know what you mean about getting close though. When I used lenses, sometimes I had to put the 100-300 away if I wanted to get the animal's whole body in the shot.

On Image Stabilization:
I talked to a guy who has run a sporting goods store for decades and it carries a large selection of binocs. It is THE binocular store for a wide area. He has a reputation for being honest and above board. It is where I bought my current binocs, among other things. I would agree that his lofty reputation is deserved.

I asked him about image stabilization binocs and if he thought I should get some. I reminded him that I had bought my current binoculars from him about 5 years ago. He sells a variety of image stabilization and traditional binoculars. His response was something like...

There is no need to replace your current 10 x 40 binoculars. The image stabilization feature turns a $100 pair of binoculars into a several hundred dollar pair. You are much better just buying higher quality traditional binoculars. You don't need image stabilization until you get to at least a 15 magnification on a big heavy pair. Image Stabilization is not worth it on anything that is 7 or 8 times 25 or 30.

I have no vested interested in any make or brand of binoculars, whether image stabilized or not. This was just one man’s opinion, but he’s a knowledgeable guy, so I thought I’d share his strong opinion on the subject.

Rather than relying on someone's opinion, next time you are going to the bino shop, take yours and ask to compare them to a similar pair of image stabilized (IS) binos. If you don't see an improvement, then you don't need them. I can tell you that I use optical instruments professionally, and even with 10x I find a better image with image stabilized. I recently attended a presentation on binos given by one of the largest distributors in South Africa to a group of rangers. He didn't carry IS but I brought a pair. When it was time to view through his high end and mid-range binos guess which binos these very experienced observers were most interested in? He wasn't a happy camper.

I agree with Tuckeg entirely. I also use sophisticated optics professionaly. I use them daily in the medical profession and I train others (medical interns and residents) in their use. I never look through any optical instrument without thinking and consciously evaluating resolution and estimating fatigue. I have had identical experience with veteran guides enthusiastic response to IS binos. I expect your sporting goods salesman means well but to rely on his opinon as "expert" is foolish. Image stabilization is perhpas the single best way to increase resolution in any optical instrument that is not permanently fixed without adding a hudge amount of weight and cost. One simple test is to look at a street sign at distance and try to hold it steady enough to read the numbers for 60 seconds. Now, try that same exercise with a pair of image stabilized binoculars. I would be amazed if you didn't see an enormous difference. The eyestrain over the course of a safari day would give me a headache. If your hands are particularly steady (this ability decreases with age) and you are of sufficient strength to hold a reasonable sized pair of binoculars (women are more likely to have a problem) then any moderately price pair of 8-10X binoculars will work. I would hope this thread interested people looking to buy a new or initial pair of binos to at least go to a store and try this fantastic technology. In many ways this discussion reminds me of the first days of image stabilized photographic lenses and we allknow how that turned out? By the way, I use Zeiss and Leitz optics routinely and I'm a great fan of their high quality however, I would choose any image stabilization (Canon, Fuginon, or Nikon) over their binoculars any day.
Chuck

Sorry "Fujinon"

I'm surprised this far into the discussion the importance of the objective lens (the number after the X) hasn't really been discussed beyond the fact that it lets in more light.

So many people want small and compact that there seems to have been a big movement to small diameter objective lenses, 10 x 30 or 10 x 25 for example. But not only are you losing light but also depth of field and most importantly to me field of vision.

As with anything it is all about how you want to use them but if you want to truly see all the details on birds or smaller animals including seeing the field marks to identify them the standard recommendation is that the objective lens is at least a multiple of 5 of the magnification. Thus, 7x35, 8x40, 10x50 would be recommended. A slightly larger diameter allows for more light and detail -- I use an 8x42 for this reason for general use. My absolute favorite are my owl optics 8x56 which allows for amazing detail but they are too heavy for general travel use but are a beast in low light.

Just as important is the larger field of vision. This lets you find the object much quicker because you do not have to put the binocs in the exact correct spot like you do with a small diameter objective lens. This is critical for not missing behavior and wasting time trying to find your object. Try following a flying bird or even a cheetah in a hunt at top speed and the larger field of vision could determine if you see the event or totally miss it -- to me that is more important than any other binoc consideration.

That's a nice overall summary by PredatorBiologist. I think the one thing that keeps being overlooked in this thread is that general game viewing and birding (whether in Africa or elsewhere) may each require different binoculars. It also helps me explain to my wife why I need so many different pairs.
Chuck

The thing is that different people need different things from their binos. If you are using them for astronomy, you want as much light as possible so large objective lenses and relatively high magnification. Friends of mine from Germany just took a pair with 150mm (6") objective lenses to Namibia. If your a birder and will be walking a lot you want something light but with a reasonably large field of view with great detail. Those folks generally know what they want and may not want IS binos (although my 10x30 Canons give a great view of the moon. As an aside I just had a flashback to Dave Rattray raving about that when he used them last December. Still can't believe it). So my recommendations are for the average person who does have a specialized use and just wants good views on game drives.

Most or all manufacturers will state the angle of view (4,5,6 degrees or something similar) and the field of view (300 feet at 1000 yards for example). These are useful numbers to determine what Tuckeg was suggesting as a useful measure of suitability for a particular time of viewing. Once people buy binoculars they seem to keep them no matter what. It's far better to try out different makes and powers at the store than to aquire a pair you are unhappy with. I would suggest not buying them by name only. All of the major makers produce decent quality glass, its the overall design and your intended use that must fit.

I love my Zeiss 10x42 binocs but I just saw Canon makes a 10x42 L image stabilized binoc. Now that is one great combination...ah the binocular money pit :))
Regards,
Eric

Eric,
Yes and they are waterproof and fogproof. I have sailing friends that think these are the best thing yet. Not only are they completely waterproof but they weigh only about 36 oz. Lets see.....I think that works out to about $35/oz.
Chuck

Eric,

I used a pair of those a French couple had with them. Very nice. Gave a noticeably better view of the Moon when compared to my 10x30s.

George

Chuck, maybe they will come down in price. Wasn't silver once about $35/oz around 1980? :))
Eric

Eric, yes I think it was, now it's about the price of an ounce of single malt scotch. So instead of ordering single malt, just order 35 Serengeti beers instead. With the money saved, buy the binos.
Chuck

I think the image stabilization will certainly come in handy after 35 beers :))
Actually, I think I will more than image stabilization!
Eric