"Phernska, I found that many of the small local companies either have no means or do not want to communicate directly with clients. If contacted, they will point one toward a booking agent. They may not want to (or again, may not have the means) to contend with International money collections or language may be an uncomfortable barrier." - TC

From my experience, I strongly disagree. I don't know many Africa based tour operators that don't speak English. I contacted about 20 Africa based Tour operators and only 2 referred me to a US based booking agent. They were all very happy to speak with me.

How many small local companies have you dealt with that you can make the statement, "I found that many of the small local companies either have no means or do not want to communicate directly with clients." Exactly which companies did you try to contact that did not have a means or want to communicate with you?

To the OP, the reason I asked is because you are talking about a $3,000 difference. You'd probably get an even bigger difference than that if you started dealing with a TZ based company. Plus then you'd be communicating with who would actually be doing your safari, not just the person who's going to contract it out (most likely).

I know some people are too nervous to deal with African companies directly, but in the days of Fodors and Trip Advisor telling you who the safe companies are, I just don't understand the fear. That's all.

Princess....I may have used incorrect termenology in my post. I contacted the camps directly, not tour operator. None of the camps I had chosen for our S. Tanzanian route were able to take direct bookings or transfers of money. All referred me onward.

Oh well that I would agree with you. I don't think most camps to want to deal directly with clients. However, as the camps almost always charge more than you would pay if you booked through a tour operator, I don't know why you want to book directly and pay more. I got quotes from the camps directly, just to test the theory...and yes, you do actually SAVE money going with a tour company.

However since the OP is planning to use a tour company, the statements about camps not wanting to deal directly doesn't really apply to his/her situation.

Any recommendations for companies that are good to use in TZ or Kenya, DivingPrincessE?

I spent about four months reading threads here and on Trip Advisor from the past two years. I came up with a list of 35 recommended TZ based companies and 43 recommended Kenyan companies (along with a handful of those not recommended).

I'm not really in a position to advise anyone on who they should travel with, they can do the research themselves if they want that answer. I can share my research though.

On the forums(in my research) the most recommended TZ based companies appeared to be:

In alphabetic order

Access 2 Tanzania
Recommended or positive praise by Trip Advisor members: Noexpert, mfuwe, Heinoti, nan0617, RickBrockvill, Aussiegirlbun, TLSinBoston, Kennethboone, AfricanLion,TFTx2, seattle30scouple, planetr
Recommended or positive praise by Fodors members: dpdny, explorerny, traveler07, grumbo, Azim, Madalinahk, Danmeds12

Basecamp
Recommended or positive praise by Trip Advisor members: flower3372, noexpert, mfuwe, SwollenAnkle (B+)-climb
Karl_Gingrich, EPT, nryan33, wildfelinenv, kuka9181, rag714, Jana Oholanz, jriessle, Hak63, safarinewcomer, Joyful Sun,
Janneke_Martin, jreissle
Recommended or positive praise by Fodors members: Fabio

Good Earth-TZ based with U.S. rep
Recommended or positive praise by Trip Advisor members: swaka, needingavacation, atravelynn, bobcaat, 1defulworld, Idnas71, bij819, smittyboo, travelgal124, kay64
Recommended or positive praise by Fodors members: atravelynn, deanandfran, roissy17, vacationbennet, Lorib1, Chriso, kstyle, Carries, Ruby_sage, Otis72, jvigano, Duane, dave_in_md, holger, lbodem, SML1, Indas75

Green Footprint
Recommended or positive praise by Fodors members: Nikao, Jdavies, Mydogkyle, Queenofdanile, Jocelin
raelon

Maasai Wanderings
Recommended or positive praise by Trip Advisor members: nhgreatfultraveler, Jazzyju, Kime75, NjiroCola, mfuwe, stacyc006, onlyjustback

Roy Safari -TZ based but uses US agent-
Recommended or positive praise by Trip Advisor members: noexpert, atravelynn, Karl_gingrich, Carb2g, dssxxxx
jjosey
Recommended or positive praise by Fodors members: atravelynn, cmp6e, JazzyDrew, Schlegal1, Tordenmalm, rsnyder, Calo, huladolphin, dhruvgupta

This list is about a month out of date, so I'm missing a few names who gave recent positive reviews. The up to date spreadsheet is at work. So I know nothing of these companies other than what I've read.

I can say when I got my quotes Access 2 Tanzania was on the high side (which is regularly reported)...however those that use them swear by them. Basecamp seems to get the most positive reviews on Trip Advisor (I actually stopped taking names for their positive reviews a while back) and Good Earth seems to be the Fodors favorite. Basecamp and Good Earth were the ones I got the warm fuzzies from when emailing with them a couple of months ago.

Basecamp also regularly comes in well under everyone else in the price quotes, according to many (and it was the case for me as well). If I had never heard of them, this price difference would probably worry me However, they have so much positive feedback, and stories of Achmed going above and beyond, so I'm not concerned about them being less expensive.

Plus you're putting all your money into Tanzania that way. For me that is worth something. (Well, it may later leave the coutry, or end up with a crooked politician, but at least it starts right :-)). I understand people are concerned about wiring money but sometimes there is a big premium (not 1-2% but maybe 20% even for somewhere with 'reasonable' prices in the UK or US, and maybe 70% in some cases) to pay for "peace of mind". There are also significant differences between the prices of Tanzanian agents, esepcially when they arrange ground transportation (even if only airport to camp and the like). We all pay something for peace of mind (I'd bet Good Earth are relatively more expensive than they were before they became known as 'trustworthy' on the forums).

I may be wrong but my experience has been that places like Chada and Greystoke aren't much cheaper to book through a local operator, so I'm not sure Phernska would have done much better in this particular case, involving just local flights and accommodation.

Sorry to be so late coming to this thread – I would have liked to have seen it, and responded, earlier.

Firstly Phernska – I’m glad that Expert Africa proved about your most competitive quote for your trip back in January; that’s what we aim at! However, I’m really sorry to hear that we then weren’t quite as “responsive” as our UK-based competition, Tanzania Odyssey. We clearly need to try harder!

It’s worth noting that we do have a policy of NEVER hounding our enquirers, or potential guests. We don’t hassle people to come back to us; in fact we rarely even ask them. Maybe that’s just our slightly-reserved British way of doing things? Maybe it’s this approach that didn’t work for you?

So I’m not sure if not being responsive means we didn’t get back to you, or just that we didn’t press you? We don’t do ‘hard-sell’; we aim to give our travellers the info, and then leave them to make a decision.

(And we certainly would never knowingly promise anything that we can’t deliver!)

Whatever the case – I’m sorry that what we did didn’t work better for you!

Secondly – on rates. When we quoted you in Jan 2010 for a trip in 2011, we used Nomad’s normal rates. Clearly Tanzania Odyssey had a similar understanding, and gave you a similar quote. By August this year, Nomad had issued an extension to their ‘specials’ rates – extending the 2010 special rates into 2011.

Thus there were special rates available for 2011 that we didn’t have in January. No surprise there – it’s like a shop having a sale; you expect rates to be lower than they were previously!

So we, too, could have quoted a much lower rate if we’d been asked to quote in August.

Thirdly – to Kavey (27 Aug) – I’m really sorry that back in 2004 you hit a problem with service with us. That was a VERY long time ago, and I’m pleased to say that I think that’s been thoroughly addressed. Now whilst we’re far from perfect, I think we’ve got a lot better and are up there with the best.

Finally – if anyone’s ever got any issues with anything that’s quoted from Expert Africa, or offer by us, or if we’re ever not responsive enough, or whatever – then I’d warmly encourage them to please let me know. I’ll be delighted to get on the case immediately and help if I possibly can; you just need to let me know.


Chris McIntyre -
Author: Bradt guidebooks to Namibia, Botswana, Zambia & Zanzibar
MD: Expert Africa & Wild about Africa
(offices in London & New Zealand)

Hi Chris
Great to hear from you, and absolutely agreed, it was a long time ago. I wouldn't have mentioned the company name except that it came up separately in the thread...
Chances are, I would have come back to you, except for the feeling I was given at the time, when I tried politely to explain why I'd chosen to book elsewhere despite the higher cost, that perhaps I wasn't the customer for you/ you weren't the company for me. I found that frustrating - I was made to feel that a customer who wanted to be actively involved in their choice of camps, and wanted to know details (and, wasn't complacent about mistakes made) was somehow not the kind of customer you wanted - too much effort/ trouble. The blip on service due to 2-3 members of staff who weren't perhaps committed, that just made me book one trip elsewhere. It was that suggestion I wasn't suited to Expert Africa that stopped me from ever contacting you again, which I would have done otherwise.
In any case, Expert Africa always scores very highly in customer surveys run by travel magazines and so on, so I'm sure that a) the vast majority of your customers are extremely happy with their trips and care and b) the problems of 2004 have long been resolved.
I do appreciate you taking the time to respond to my comments here!
Best regards
Kavey

Chris,

Thanks for responding....My comments about my interaction with Expert Africa is just my gut reaction to a very cursory exchange. I am not at all suggesting that anyone was rude, unprofessional, or slow to respond. My decision was based purely on my perception of the response I received. And, that is the problem with email! I hope this makes sense.
I will definitely consider Expert Africa in the future.

Hi Kavey –

Thanks for your email and taking the time to explain. Clearly we got it wrong for you!

Looking back, we went through a very difficult and pressurised 6-9 months, around 2004. Three of my team (of five) left, all for separate personal reasons. The remaining three of us did our best, but there were just not enough hours in the day to cope with the sheer volume of enquiries. It was very disheartening to have lots of travellers wanting trips, and not enough skilled people in the team to help them. Hence we did turned some enquiries away, rather than risk doing a bad job on them. I don’t know if you were one of those?!

Now those problems are long gone, and we’ve a larger and more experienced team, with much more strength in depth.

The irony here isn’t lost on me; it’s particularly sad. Generally the travellers that we work best with are those who want to be actively involved in the decisions about their trip and choice of camps; it’s often those who do a lot of their own research, and want to know the fine details before they go.

That’s why we appeal to them – because we research places in depth, and generally pride ourselves on being very good on those details. We now have an internal rule that team members shouldn’t even talk about places that they haven’t been to without flagging up that they haven’t been there – thus travellers can have confidence that we know what we’re talking about from personal experience.

So please, take this as a belated apology for what was a ‘blip’. I’m only sorry it’s taken me 6 years to be able to give it. I hope that you’ll feel able to drop me a line next time you need travel advice and help in organising a trip. Just remind me of these comms; I won’t forget! :-)


Chris McIntyre -
Author: Bradt guidebooks to Namibia, Botswana, Zambia & Zanzibar
MD: Expert Africa & Wild about Africa
(offices in London & New Zealand)

Hi phernska –

Thanks for yours, and helping me understand a little better.

Email comms are often tricky; it’s so easy to get ‘tone’ wrong. Not all of our team are writers! Hence we find a short phone conversation is worth a dozen emails wherever it’s possible.

Since you enquired with us, we’ve introduced a free-phone number from USA/Canada. So between our London and New Zealand office we’re open almost 24 / 6 … so hopefully that’ll help us to communicate much better in the future.

Do call me directly when you’re thinking of your next safari; I’ll look forward to chatting!


Chris McIntyre -
Author: Bradt guidebooks to Namibia, Botswana, Zambia & Zanzibar
MD: Expert Africa & Wild about Africa
(offices in London & New Zealand)

Chris,
I thank you sincerely for taking the time to come back, again, and not just apologise to give an honest and likely explanation of want went wrong back then.
Someone who does a LOT of their own research and has a strong idea of what they want, down to quite fine detail - that's me you're describing right there, so good to know that's the kind of customers you work well with.
These days, I do look more commonly to book directly in the destination country where possible, but I actually WILL come to you should I be considering a trip where I need someone else to help me pull it together.
Many thanks, again,
Kavey

Hi Kavey –

No worries – a proper apology usually deserves a explanation.

In fact, the disaster of being so over-stretched led us to take a long look at how we’d been working. We ended up with a real step-change in our game: we got more staff; we started to pay at the top of the industry; we moved upstairs into a better working environment … and we decided to re-branded.

Within 2 years we were in a totally different, and much better, space – mentally and physically – and we haven’t looked back since. So although it was very difficult & stressful, we learnt a lot from it.

Re your trips, as I’m sure you know, <b>budget-style trips</b> will probably cost the same for you to book directly, or even a fraction cheaper, than we can sell.
Whereas <b>Higher-end trips</b> we’ll usually be able to sell to you much more cheaply than you could organise for yourself. (And when using camps/lodges that we do a lot of business with, this saving can be very substantial.)

I went through the logic of this in a bit more depth here - http://www.fodors.com/community/afri...-via-agent.cfm.

I’ll look forward to a chat someday! :-)

Meanwhile, happy travelling!


<u>Chris McIntyre</u>
<b>Author:</b> Bradt guidebooks to Namibia, Botswana, Zambia & Zanzibar
<b>MD:</b> Expert Africa & Wild about Africa
(offices in London & New Zealand)

Chris

It's not often that businesses admit that they went through such a dreadfully bad time, but from the sounds of it, aknowledging how bad things were really helped you turn things around.

I don't tend to do budget trips so will definitely keep that in mind. For example, our last trip, the flight was booked using BA airmiles and we did all 10 nights at Serian Camp, which we booked directly at a discount Alex kindly gave me as a repeat customer --- we stayed 5 nights there in 2008 as part of a longer Kenya and Tanzania itinerary and my parents went to Serian in 2009. That trip, we booked with Roy in Tanzania and I think Cheli and Peacock in Kenya.

The next trip is Lebanon and I'm conscious we need to give some other continents more time so not sure when we'll be back in Africa next. Not more than another year or two, I'm sure!

Hi Kavey –

I’m a firm believer in telling it like it is; no beating-around-the bush or soft-soaping. And that’s how it was!

Sometimes plain-speaking gets me into trouble, but generally it has stood me in good stead. That’s how I encourage all the <i>Expert Africa</i> team to work, with suppliers and travellers alike; I think it’s the only way I’m be happy with.

Lebanon’s meant to be great – or at least Beirut. Don’t know about the rest of it. A colleague here is out there at the moment, seeing his daughter who is working there. He speaks very highly of it.

Have a great weekend!


<u>Chris McIntyre</u>
<b>Author:</b> Bradt guidebooks to Namibia, Botswana, Zambia & Zanzibar
<b>MD:</b> Expert Africa & Wild about Africa
(offices in London & New Zealand)

A fellow London food blogger friend is running a tour there in a few days, a foodie tour, obviously. She's from Lebanon originally. We couldn't go as it's too close on the heels of the Mara trip from which we just returned. But she just announced a second trip in April/May next year so we're on it.

Can't wait!

I know it's probably considered very base to consider booking safaris yourself. But at $800 per night savings ($400 each for the husband and me) - I can live with the humiliation :-) . If going to exclusive lodges means you think you need to overpay, then have at it! I very methodically gave 4 agents (3 private agents - all recommended on Fodor's and 1 large firm - found myself) our itinerary, a list of 5 safaris we were considering and left them to their devices. One of the 3 private agents didn't respond to my calls or email. 2 of the agents responded with pricing and information on only 2 of the 5 I had requested. Only the large firm responded with pricing and answers to questions I could plug into my analysis to make a decision. The "apple to apple" prices received from the large firm were anywhere from 25% to 50% less. $4800 extra dollars in my bank account. Oh - less about $35 in phone calls to the lodges to verify a few things and a few calls with the airlines to verify flight info.

I should have also mentioned - we had an incredible time, probably at the top of our "Favorite Trip" list now. Everything went off without a hitch!

Interesting jwed. Most of us here book safaris ourselves. This is not the "Conde Nast" travel forum :)

Are you saying you booked directly with the camps?
Did those camps have published/web rates?
Or did you not know the camp rates until you actually called the camps?
By booking directly with the camps you saved $4800 from the quotes from "large firms"?
What then was -your- final cost?
Can you tell us the names of the camps and for how many nights you booked?
I'm just trying to clarify for me what you did and how. Not at all challenging you. I've never any "saving $4800". Bummer :( . Kindly teach me how, this is a "teachable moment" :)

Every safari camp I have been to (10 total), had/has published rates, for example MalaMala and Leopard Hills. Our first safari we booked all through a travel agent and he charged us exactly those published rates. I have since contacted camps directly and all quote to me the web published rate. Never any surprises. Never any $$$$ savings by booking directly with camp.

regards - tom

I 2nd tom - where did you go (country/ies), how many actual days in-country; where stayed (lodges/camps), transport between areas (road/flights). Some different in price may sometimes happen, but different of $4800 is up there.

Welcome new poster jwed.
Topping this in hopes that you will reply with more details.

regards - tom

Hi Tom and Everyone,
We are trying to make a decision about choosing an agent to help us with our upcoming trip..This thread is very helpful...A couple of questions: Are you saying it's better to book the med/higher end lodges by contacting the lodge directly? We tried that but ended up with an agent.. MalaMala, for example, refers you to a travel agent they have a relationship with...others use Rhino Safaris. We are going to be staying in Cape Town for about a week, so I'm wondering if any of you know a good company to arrange tours etc there that won't be expensive...How wacky is it to rent a car if you have never driven on the left side of the road? Finally, and a bit off the mark, we have the opportunity to change our trip from July (2 weeks) to Mid May to early June (3 weeks) Going to Cape Town and then up to Kruger area...maybe into Botswana if we can afford it....Any thoughts, anyone? Thanks. We are first timers, but we have planned many trips to other places by ourselves...we'd like to do this smartly, and get a fair pricing for mid-range safaris...I'm still gathering info. Thanks, everyone.

Hi Jodo, You might have more luck starting a new thread with your questions.

Like you, I found booking directly with lodges and camps to be impossible. They simply referred me on to their agent in the U.S. Others will disagree, and I am by no means the expert here, but I was very happy on this last trip to So. Tanzania using an agent in the U.K. for my bookings and a bit of inside information. I really knew what we wanted before contact, so did not feel in the least railroaded by him.

Again, a new thread will most likely get you more responses. Good luck and happy travels.

Thanks, TC.....we have also done our homework... and now know better what will work for us...think we've finally narrowed things down....and re-arranged our travel dates. We're going to ask for specific quotes and see how it goes! Thanks for your response...Happy travels back to you!

I too would like a primer on saving $4800. Even half that.

atravelynn - I suspect we're not going to hear back from jwed. jwed I suspect is also another poster here who likes to claim we are being ripped off by travel agents and operators. He makes big claims of savings but never, never, gives any details/information that can be verified. Or, how you also can have such savings, only claims he does it.

regards - tom

mtbeds.com is the website. Give them a try. They came back hundreds less per night on most safaris. I am not exaggerating when I tell you that I contacted agents highly recommended on Fodor's and other sites. I guess you could say we used an agent, because being non-SA residents, we couldn't use the mtbeds website - I would have if I could have. I emailed them the timeframe, Chantal Cairns, one of their agents (I'm assuming a call center type arrangement, like travelocity, etc), emailed me back. We had about 3 brief but succinct telephone conversations, and the results were as stated. We ended up staying at Sabie Sabie Bush Lodge, for a few reasons, casual dinner attire being one. On vacation, the last thing we care to do is dress for dinner every evening. Most of the attendees on the drives came in in the evening, freshened up a bit and headed to the lounge before dinner to share photos and video. It was a lively group, anywhere from 5 to 7 per truck, the one with 7 had a family of 4, about 20 total, from all over the world with a number of SA folks mixed in and we all hated to say good by to each other by the end of the trip. We had a marvelous time.
By the way - I am not another "poster who likes to claim we are being ripped off by travel agents and operators." I am also not a "he." I am a wife and mother, working professional woman, who has booked numerous vacations for my husband, daughter, and self - all over the world. I have arranged for trips to Asia between Shanghai and Beijing; Kyoto, and surrounds, Mexico, Europe - from the Netherlands to Cordoba to Seville and much of the continent in between - trains, planes, and automobiles.... all without an agent. The times I did check with agents for pricing - agent prices ended up being much more expensive. Traveling the way we do, we eat where we want, always trying at least 1 or 2 five stars wherever we go. South Africa was lovely for that, since prices are so reasonable, dining was great! We tour when we want. Or just relax when we want to, perhaps at an outside table sipping wine or beer, or tea along the ocean, or in view of the mountains, or across from a temple, or listening to street performers... We hire tour guides for 1/2 days or full days for out of the way places or where it is most highly recommended. But we are very avid readers, so in addition to scouring travel websites in preparation for a trip, I read everything I can get my hands on. The best tours we had in Japan were self-guided because there are some amazing books written about out-of-the way historic sites there. And again, we have met so many amazing people this way.
Upshot - I love to travel, so I do do homework, and once you get used to the freedom of not following a set schedule, no matter how basic, it's hard to imagine traveling any other way. When it costs more, to boot, it just doesn't make sense for us.
Many people aren't comfortable with traveling this way. I understand that. There are many, many good reasons for hiring an agent. Please know - I am not trying to say one way is best for all.
As such, you should not cast dispersions.

jwed, thanks for responding (even if over a month later). Forgive me but I am suspicious of first time posters making such claims. We have had some "hit-and-run" claims like that. Sorry and sorry I thought you were a "he".

I know of MTBeds, it has been discussed here, but you are the first, first hand report I know of from some one who has actually used them. Good it worked for you and I'll try them next time to South Africa. You said originally you saved $4,800, was this through MTBeds at Sabi Sabi Bush Lodge?

As for "dressing up" for dinner at camps, that is very much the exception. Probably happens for Singita so they can properly discuss the wine list. But at the five camps I've been to in Sabi Sand and Timbavati, guests just freshen up for cocktails and dinner.

FWIW, we also have traveled world wide for 40 years with mostly making our own tours and reservations. Even bought a Volkswagen in Germany and drove it around Europe. Shipped it home. Should have left it there, what a lemon!!

regards - tom

Thanks for the info jwed.

Had I thought before hitting submit, I saved up to $4800 on my last trip to Kenya based on a variety of quotes though not all for the identical product.

Even at Singita, no one "dressed" for dinner. Many (not all) changed from their safari attire to nice casual... for women: slacks/skirt with a sweater and shawl (cool evenings); some of the younger gals wore slip-dresses, but generally it was a mix of everything. Jackets were seen on a few men, because of the chill in the air, while others put on a sweater. Casual, casual, casual!