Beware of
Nov 8th, 2004, 01:44 AM
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Beware of
Packagers wax eloquent about the Caribbean esp about the golf there
http://www.caribbeangolf.com/feature...ncerns-455.htm
But buyer beware: sometimes the Caribbean isn't always what it's cracked up to
http://www.caribbeangolf.com/feature...ncerns-455.htm
But buyer beware: sometimes the Caribbean isn't always what it's cracked up to
Nov 8th, 2004, 04:17 AM
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Interesting read! We don't golf, but tend to avoid the 'dangerous' islands mentioned in this article (St. Croix, Jamaica, and others) instinctively. The only one of these islands we know is Aruba, which is billed as being 'fairly safe'.
Nov 8th, 2004, 06:24 AM
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What an offensive article! Hire a bodyguard for golfing in St. Croix? Criminals in Trinidad & Tobago "have a tendency to kidnap people"? "Beware that little English is spoken outside the tourist areas" in the DR? (The official language is Spanish. Of course little English is spoken outside the tourist areas!)
This article sounds to me like it was written by some pretty unenlightened people who want Americans only to golf in the US. It sounds small-minded and xenophobic.
I suppose the writers of this article should never venture into their own nation's capital of Washington, D.C., what with all of the crime there an all.
This article sounds to me like it was written by some pretty unenlightened people who want Americans only to golf in the US. It sounds small-minded and xenophobic.
I suppose the writers of this article should never venture into their own nation's capital of Washington, D.C., what with all of the crime there an all.
Nov 8th, 2004, 10:07 AM
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This has got to be the most ridiculous piece of "journalism" I have ever read in my life!
The author apparently got his education at one of those "schools" they advertise on the cable channels that used to be found on matchbook covers.
"You too can be a writer for an online golfing publication."
Sheesh, talk about alarmist.
If the Caribbean were even remotely as dangerous as this idjit would have us think, there would be mass hysteria in the tourism industry there.
My guess is the author has never even BEEN to the Caribbean. He certainly has NO idea what responsible reporting is all about.
The article would be hilarious if it did not have such a nasty racist undercurrent...
The author apparently got his education at one of those "schools" they advertise on the cable channels that used to be found on matchbook covers.
"You too can be a writer for an online golfing publication."
Sheesh, talk about alarmist.
If the Caribbean were even remotely as dangerous as this idjit would have us think, there would be mass hysteria in the tourism industry there.
My guess is the author has never even BEEN to the Caribbean. He certainly has NO idea what responsible reporting is all about.
The article would be hilarious if it did not have such a nasty racist undercurrent...
Nov 8th, 2004, 01:03 PM
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Without reading this article, I am assumeing they mentioned St. Croix as dangerous because of an incident which happend in the early 70's. I love to golf, and have golfed all over Jamaica including Jamaica and a few other islands including St. Croix. Would hardly describe any situation as dangerous or threatening ... great golf to be had all over the islands.
Nov 9th, 2004, 04:47 AM
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It's quite obvious he has been paid by Atuba and Barbados to write it. Certainly had he researched it, he would see that most of the crimes commited on any of those islands are commited on islander vs. islander. In Trinidad for instance, they kidnap from families that they know have money. They get paid and release them.
Fuuny how he knows if you get caught with drugs in the Turks and Caicos you will be in trouble. Maybe he was! Just kidding, wondering though, why he interjected that comment.
Ronnie
Fuuny how he knows if you get caught with drugs in the Turks and Caicos you will be in trouble. Maybe he was! Just kidding, wondering though, why he interjected that comment.
Ronnie
Nov 11th, 2004, 04:32 PM
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MM sure I'll add my two cents. Pardon my delay, I just noticed this thread.
Everything that article says is the ugly TRUTH. There are known hot spots for crime, and violent crime. Jamaica, Virgin Islands, Puerto Rico most famous for it. The drug trade and dense populations the primary seeds but it doesn't just stop there....there are some places never mentioned and to the shock and surprise of many travelers some places thought to be quiet and safe have serious and rising crime problems. Take Dominica for example, this island actually has the highest murder rate per capita than most places in the entire world. How about Bonaire, a quiet off the beaten trail place thats a divers delight...theft is terrible there, if its not nailed down its stolen...with rental cars its recommended you leave it unlocked and/or windows open to avoid broken windows, etc and check to see if you still have your spare tire...recent crime has now turned violent, a couple was severely beaten recently when they failed to have much cash.
Where are the safe places? Well that's a hard one, there are places safer than others...almost all places theft is always a problem, some places worse than others. Take Montserrat for example, last I had the opportunity to visit was about 6 months before the volcano erupted halting the tourism industry. The jail at that time had just 4 prisoners who were actually allowed to escape at night to be with their girlfriends. Now with the volcano and resulting property losses crime has skyrocketed. Barbados, while not known for violent crime theft is awful there, this was the only place we've gone that we actually had a staff member at a private villa rental steal from us. The article groups Trinidad & Tobago and rightly so, its a twin island nation however the crime issues on Trinidad are night and day from that of its sleepy sister Tobago...however again theft is a problem there, but I'd be shocked to hear if anyone was kidnapped, beaten, raped, or murdered on Mt. Irvine golf course.
Its always prudent to do a little homework on the place you wish to visit no matter how wonderful it sounds and is presented whether its by friends/family who've gone, tourist office promotions or the travel industry.
Be smart, stay safe and most of all have a great trip!
Everything that article says is the ugly TRUTH. There are known hot spots for crime, and violent crime. Jamaica, Virgin Islands, Puerto Rico most famous for it. The drug trade and dense populations the primary seeds but it doesn't just stop there....there are some places never mentioned and to the shock and surprise of many travelers some places thought to be quiet and safe have serious and rising crime problems. Take Dominica for example, this island actually has the highest murder rate per capita than most places in the entire world. How about Bonaire, a quiet off the beaten trail place thats a divers delight...theft is terrible there, if its not nailed down its stolen...with rental cars its recommended you leave it unlocked and/or windows open to avoid broken windows, etc and check to see if you still have your spare tire...recent crime has now turned violent, a couple was severely beaten recently when they failed to have much cash.
Where are the safe places? Well that's a hard one, there are places safer than others...almost all places theft is always a problem, some places worse than others. Take Montserrat for example, last I had the opportunity to visit was about 6 months before the volcano erupted halting the tourism industry. The jail at that time had just 4 prisoners who were actually allowed to escape at night to be with their girlfriends. Now with the volcano and resulting property losses crime has skyrocketed. Barbados, while not known for violent crime theft is awful there, this was the only place we've gone that we actually had a staff member at a private villa rental steal from us. The article groups Trinidad & Tobago and rightly so, its a twin island nation however the crime issues on Trinidad are night and day from that of its sleepy sister Tobago...however again theft is a problem there, but I'd be shocked to hear if anyone was kidnapped, beaten, raped, or murdered on Mt. Irvine golf course.
Its always prudent to do a little homework on the place you wish to visit no matter how wonderful it sounds and is presented whether its by friends/family who've gone, tourist office promotions or the travel industry.
Be smart, stay safe and most of all have a great trip!
Nov 11th, 2004, 05:21 PM
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We spend a week at The Buccaneer on St. Croix every year with our kids and have never had a problem or heard of a problem from any other guests. And we do leave the property to go to Christiansted for dinner, shopping. Are we careful when we leave the property...sure. Just like I'm careful when I'm riding the Boston T. I know I look like a tourist with cash and know to be careful. But this article makes it sound like St. Croix is a haven for all kinds of trouble. No doubt it can be found. It's just not fair to lambaste the entire island.
Nov 11th, 2004, 06:05 PM
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ccrosner,
You are absolutely right. Actually this type of subj has caused great debates on many of threads...Jamaica is in the winners spot for that, but probably followed closely with Virgin Islands and Bahamas.
I think the whole gist of the article originally posted, followed by my candid comments is only to enlighten those travelers who may not necessarily realize the beautiful vacation spot they are headed may also have some hidden surprises. Now you and many others, particularly those like yourself living in large metro areas such as Boston are street smart and probably don't go anywhere and take loss of your day to day smarts...but take a family from Kansas, go somewhere think its safe and end up with all kinds of problems. Me, I'm in the DC area, work in SE....drive by shootings common. On the otherhand, when I travel its not to highly populated areas...I do like some contrast, and don't mind that extra local flight or ferry to get that. Just food for thought. Enjoy your travels, if it be St. Croix then have a great time!
You are absolutely right. Actually this type of subj has caused great debates on many of threads...Jamaica is in the winners spot for that, but probably followed closely with Virgin Islands and Bahamas.
I think the whole gist of the article originally posted, followed by my candid comments is only to enlighten those travelers who may not necessarily realize the beautiful vacation spot they are headed may also have some hidden surprises. Now you and many others, particularly those like yourself living in large metro areas such as Boston are street smart and probably don't go anywhere and take loss of your day to day smarts...but take a family from Kansas, go somewhere think its safe and end up with all kinds of problems. Me, I'm in the DC area, work in SE....drive by shootings common. On the otherhand, when I travel its not to highly populated areas...I do like some contrast, and don't mind that extra local flight or ferry to get that. Just food for thought. Enjoy your travels, if it be St. Croix then have a great time!
Nov 12th, 2004, 03:07 AM
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I hear you Traveler. We city/suburb dwellers do forget that there are those for whom crime is a remote thought. Not so where I live. I just wished that these people who write about places like St. Croix would not do a broad brush stroke of fear.
Nov 12th, 2004, 03:52 AM
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I agree that there are problems in the islands, and I agree that people need to be made aware of their surroundings so that they don't stray into an unsafe area, or make themselves unwittingly attractive to criminals.
What I DON'T agree with is terminology like this:
"the Caribbean is the demonstration, protest and violent riot capital of the world" - Wow. I must have missed this in the world headlines. I was too busy paying attention to reports of rioting in the middle eastern and African countries I guess.
"If you venture off the resort grounds, watch for public taxi drivers, who sometimes turn robbers themselves" - I'd like to know how many times this has happened. I'm sure the 99.9% of taxi drivers who are honest and fair would love to read this...
"Be aware that outside of the tourist areas, little English is spoken." - The same can be said of most countries that DON'T HAVE ENGLISH AS THEIR PRIMARY LANGUAGE!
"Puerto Rico, which has been described as the golf mecca of the Caribbean, is totally out of hand." - I am sure PR would be really surprised to hear this - as was I - NEVER having heard anything like this before.
"You should, too," (avoid St Croix)"unless you absolutely have to play Carambola, a very nice course. Consider hiring a bodyguard." - My goodness. I wonder how many times people have been a victim of crime on the Carambola golf course. "Uh, yes. I would like my caddy AND my bodyguard to meet me at the first hole for my 8:00 am tee time please." Ridiculous.
"St. Thomas, the other island in the chain along with St. John, has Mahogany Run. It's another nice course, but be prepared for rude and sometimes even hostile treatment from many island residents once you leave the course" - My guess is that the author of this piece frequently is the recipient of hostile treatment everywhere he goes.
What a bunch of alarmist drivel. I am certainly not saying there are NOT cases of crime everywhere, but to make it sound like you can't step foot off the resort property without facing kidnap, rape, robbery or death is the HEIGHT of irresponsible reporting, and the writer of this piece has attained a new low.
What I DON'T agree with is terminology like this:
"the Caribbean is the demonstration, protest and violent riot capital of the world" - Wow. I must have missed this in the world headlines. I was too busy paying attention to reports of rioting in the middle eastern and African countries I guess.
"If you venture off the resort grounds, watch for public taxi drivers, who sometimes turn robbers themselves" - I'd like to know how many times this has happened. I'm sure the 99.9% of taxi drivers who are honest and fair would love to read this...
"Be aware that outside of the tourist areas, little English is spoken." - The same can be said of most countries that DON'T HAVE ENGLISH AS THEIR PRIMARY LANGUAGE!
"Puerto Rico, which has been described as the golf mecca of the Caribbean, is totally out of hand." - I am sure PR would be really surprised to hear this - as was I - NEVER having heard anything like this before.
"You should, too," (avoid St Croix)"unless you absolutely have to play Carambola, a very nice course. Consider hiring a bodyguard." - My goodness. I wonder how many times people have been a victim of crime on the Carambola golf course. "Uh, yes. I would like my caddy AND my bodyguard to meet me at the first hole for my 8:00 am tee time please." Ridiculous.
"St. Thomas, the other island in the chain along with St. John, has Mahogany Run. It's another nice course, but be prepared for rude and sometimes even hostile treatment from many island residents once you leave the course" - My guess is that the author of this piece frequently is the recipient of hostile treatment everywhere he goes.
What a bunch of alarmist drivel. I am certainly not saying there are NOT cases of crime everywhere, but to make it sound like you can't step foot off the resort property without facing kidnap, rape, robbery or death is the HEIGHT of irresponsible reporting, and the writer of this piece has attained a new low.
Nov 12th, 2004, 06:07 AM
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Interesting article. I always amazes me how some people seem to take such joy in highlighting the negatives instead of accentuating the positives of these islands.
The writer is speaking from a position of experience, apparently having lived here for many years and was the victim of robberies and near misses. I wonder on what island that was and the circumstances surrounding the robberies and near misses. I have lived all of my life in the islands from Dominica to Barbados, to Antigua to Bermuda and now the British Virgin Islands - some 30 plus years along with my immediate and extended family who are scattered in several of the islands and I have travelled to just about every island in between. I have never had any personal experiences with robbery/violent crime where I have lived or visited. Sure there is crime in the islands and it does seem to be on the increase generally, even here in the once sleepy BVI's. Yet it is no more acute than any other "paradise" anywhere in this world as we all have our share of social ills to cope with in the 21st century. So to say that that Caribbean is the "violent riot capital of the world" is beyond ridiculous. I actually found myself chuckling at the extremes to which this writer will go to make his point. Really, if that was the case, then surely there would be red alerts on the region all over the news warning people to stay away, don't you think? Why are the tourists still flocking to the islands? Here in the BVI, we did not experience a "slow" season as such for this year - and all indications are that we can look forward to a very busy upcoming season.
The reality of the situation is that crime in the islands is still largely domestic. Tourists are still by and large safe here although of course, common sense must still prevail as this is not utopia and I do not think anyone here is claiming that it is.
And at the end of the day, beleive you me, there is still alot of kindness in these caribbean societies that can be counted on. Just this week, a woman wrote into the local papers - she just moved here to live - and lost her way while driving home one evening, found herself on a high hill in the darkness with her truck wedged precariously on the side of a steep hill about to go over the cliff. She managed to put on the emergency break and get out of the truck, she ran to the nearest house, knocked on the door and this man answered, she explained the problem, he followed her back to her truck and risked life and limb but managed to get her truck back on the road and the lady back on her way without more. She was so moved by the kindness of this complete stranger in such circumstances that she had to thank him publicly. This is not an isolated incident. This is life in the islands and it is what I wish could be highlighted more often in publications and on forums such as Fodors.
The writer is speaking from a position of experience, apparently having lived here for many years and was the victim of robberies and near misses. I wonder on what island that was and the circumstances surrounding the robberies and near misses. I have lived all of my life in the islands from Dominica to Barbados, to Antigua to Bermuda and now the British Virgin Islands - some 30 plus years along with my immediate and extended family who are scattered in several of the islands and I have travelled to just about every island in between. I have never had any personal experiences with robbery/violent crime where I have lived or visited. Sure there is crime in the islands and it does seem to be on the increase generally, even here in the once sleepy BVI's. Yet it is no more acute than any other "paradise" anywhere in this world as we all have our share of social ills to cope with in the 21st century. So to say that that Caribbean is the "violent riot capital of the world" is beyond ridiculous. I actually found myself chuckling at the extremes to which this writer will go to make his point. Really, if that was the case, then surely there would be red alerts on the region all over the news warning people to stay away, don't you think? Why are the tourists still flocking to the islands? Here in the BVI, we did not experience a "slow" season as such for this year - and all indications are that we can look forward to a very busy upcoming season.
The reality of the situation is that crime in the islands is still largely domestic. Tourists are still by and large safe here although of course, common sense must still prevail as this is not utopia and I do not think anyone here is claiming that it is.
And at the end of the day, beleive you me, there is still alot of kindness in these caribbean societies that can be counted on. Just this week, a woman wrote into the local papers - she just moved here to live - and lost her way while driving home one evening, found herself on a high hill in the darkness with her truck wedged precariously on the side of a steep hill about to go over the cliff. She managed to put on the emergency break and get out of the truck, she ran to the nearest house, knocked on the door and this man answered, she explained the problem, he followed her back to her truck and risked life and limb but managed to get her truck back on the road and the lady back on her way without more. She was so moved by the kindness of this complete stranger in such circumstances that she had to thank him publicly. This is not an isolated incident. This is life in the islands and it is what I wish could be highlighted more often in publications and on forums such as Fodors.
Nov 12th, 2004, 06:12 AM
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After reading the article I spent some time checking statistics about Puerto Rico (since I've booked a trip there next year). In 2004 there have been an average of five murders every two days in Puerto Rico - the highest violent crime rate in the United States. It was mentioned most of these occur outside of tourist areas. This information will cause me to be a little more aware!
Nov 12th, 2004, 04:23 PM
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The crime you need to be concerned about is crime against tourists and that is still relatively rare in the Caribbean. Right now, I would be more concerned about Miami than PR or Jamaica or St Croix - tourists are being assaulted and robbed outside of their Miami hotels.
Nov 12th, 2004, 04:37 PM
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I don't know about the rest of the islands mentioned in the article, but I can tell you that his comments about Puerto Rico are, sadly, true.
I visit San Juan frequently and have family in other parts of PR and I can tell you that Puerto Ricans are fed up with rising crime. On my last visit in August, the crime rate was front page news as well as the subject of many anguished letters to the editor. A few weeks earlier, the National Guard had been deployed to help combat crime in some areas. Most of the murders are drug-related and to my knowledge there isn't any great increase in crime specifically against tourists. But let's face it, with more drugs on the island visitors need to exercise caution as local drug use tends to result in increases in other crimes as well.
As a tourist its unlikely that you will be aware of this as tourist spots are given extra police attention. But do take the normal precautions that you would at home. And if you are going off the beaten path, most definitely keep your wits and street smarts about you. Carjackings do occur in certain parts of San Juan, and be careful when using ATMS.
Believe me, my intention is not to be an alarmist nor to paint Puerto Rico as an unsafe island. As stated earlier in this thread, people should be informed and realize that these islands are not immune to the problems that we have at home.
I visit San Juan frequently and have family in other parts of PR and I can tell you that Puerto Ricans are fed up with rising crime. On my last visit in August, the crime rate was front page news as well as the subject of many anguished letters to the editor. A few weeks earlier, the National Guard had been deployed to help combat crime in some areas. Most of the murders are drug-related and to my knowledge there isn't any great increase in crime specifically against tourists. But let's face it, with more drugs on the island visitors need to exercise caution as local drug use tends to result in increases in other crimes as well.
As a tourist its unlikely that you will be aware of this as tourist spots are given extra police attention. But do take the normal precautions that you would at home. And if you are going off the beaten path, most definitely keep your wits and street smarts about you. Carjackings do occur in certain parts of San Juan, and be careful when using ATMS.
Believe me, my intention is not to be an alarmist nor to paint Puerto Rico as an unsafe island. As stated earlier in this thread, people should be informed and realize that these islands are not immune to the problems that we have at home.
Nov 13th, 2004, 11:52 AM
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Diana,
I agree the article is a bit too strongly worded, especially to say its the "violent riot captial".
Enya,
No one likes to accentuate the negatives of our favorite travel spots, but one must also not bury their head in the sand.
Cartera45,
Crime against tourists being relatively rare is untrue, tourists are primary targets for theft. But violent crime, which I believe your post is really directed too, that is true it is not generally directed towards tourists, although it does happen. I totally agree many places CONUS are far more dangerous.
I don't want to sound like some alarmist myself, the Caribbean is overall one of the safer places to travel...but folks do need to be aware of potential problems they may not have thought of.
I agree the article is a bit too strongly worded, especially to say its the "violent riot captial".
Enya,
No one likes to accentuate the negatives of our favorite travel spots, but one must also not bury their head in the sand.
Cartera45,
Crime against tourists being relatively rare is untrue, tourists are primary targets for theft. But violent crime, which I believe your post is really directed too, that is true it is not generally directed towards tourists, although it does happen. I totally agree many places CONUS are far more dangerous.
I don't want to sound like some alarmist myself, the Caribbean is overall one of the safer places to travel...but folks do need to be aware of potential problems they may not have thought of.
Nov 13th, 2004, 12:33 PM
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Diana,
Further comment on the St. Croix portion of article. I beleive they were referring to the 8 people who were massacred there about 30 years ago. That was of course an isolated incident, to my knowledge there have not been problems since. In that particular incident, I don't think a bodyguard would have helped anyone.
Further comment on the St. Croix portion of article. I beleive they were referring to the 8 people who were massacred there about 30 years ago. That was of course an isolated incident, to my knowledge there have not been problems since. In that particular incident, I don't think a bodyguard would have helped anyone.
Nov 13th, 2004, 10:42 PM
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Garbage. Trash journalism and unprofessional. I lived on St. Croix for several years and played Carambola (an awesome track!) many times, including several charity golf tournaments with players of the likes of David Winfield, Al Kaline and Brooks Robinson. An absolutely beautiful resort and property. St. Croix continues to be the red-headed step child (no offense please) of the USVI....for absolutely no reason. The crime on STT is worse than STX....and both are better than most major metro areas in the US. The same applies for Jamaica....the author is an uninformed idiot.
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