Finally a rough itinerary
May 29th, 2006, 02:30 PM
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Finally a rough itinerary
We are 2 couples in late 50's early 60's hoping to do a Tanzania trip in January or February. We would prefer a leisurely pace, if possible without internal flights. We want to see animals but we also want to visit villages and markets etc. After a long while of lurking on this board and the occasional post I have come up with a really preliminary itinerary. So now I need your input. Any thoughts or suggestions would really be appreciated. We are pretty seasoned travellers but like our comfort more than when we were young and backpacking the world. Cost and value for money are factors. The following lists only the accommodations. We are thinking 2 days at each but are open to ideas. So here goes : Arusha Coffee Lodge; Tarangire Treetops; Ngorongoro Serena or Sopa; Ndutu Lodge; Serengeti Serena; Gibb's Farm or Plantation Lodge; Arusha.
I think we may like to get a good tented camp in there somewhere as a substitute for one of the lodges.
I'm sure we need help with this so your comments would be appreciated.
I think we may like to get a good tented camp in there somewhere as a substitute for one of the lodges.
I'm sure we need help with this so your comments would be appreciated.
May 29th, 2006, 05:02 PM
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galiano:
A perfectly good itinerary that is appropriate for that time of year--but as you have pointed out a good tented camp would be a nice addition. I had a great experience with Nomad's seasonal camp at Ndutu as did Rocco. Plenty of creature comforts IMO.
A perfectly good itinerary that is appropriate for that time of year--but as you have pointed out a good tented camp would be a nice addition. I had a great experience with Nomad's seasonal camp at Ndutu as did Rocco. Plenty of creature comforts IMO.
May 29th, 2006, 06:16 PM
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Good trip in the making. I'd do 3 nights in the Serengeti whether lodge, tented camp, mobile camp or a combination. In Jan/Feb you may want something more south than Serena for the majority of your time in the Serengeti.
Februrary would be a little better than January, I think, though I've never gone at that time of year.
Februrary would be a little better than January, I think, though I've never gone at that time of year.
May 29th, 2006, 09:04 PM
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Good work Galiano - getting the pieces in order.
Will share the driving distances ATR provided me for location-to-location below. Do not know exact distance you've requested, but this detail may help you. Arusha Coffee Lodge may be closer to Tarangire than Kigononi, but don't know.
Arusha Kigongoni to Oliver's Camp Tarangire = ~ 4 hours which include game drive as entering Tarangire
Oliver's Camp to Mto wa Mbu, near Manyara - (we wanted to stop off for drive through Manyara NP) = ~ 4 hours including "game drive" as exiting Tarangire.
Manyara to Gibbs Farm (Karatu) = 30 minutes
Gibbs Farm to Ngorongoro Sopa = 2.5 hours. This drive might be 30-45 shorter if you stay at Serena instead.
Ngorongoro Crater to Oldupai (after safari in crater) = 1 hour
Oldupai to Ndutu Lodge = 1-2 hours
Ndutu Lodge to Seronera area = 2.5 hours
Mbuzi Mawe is ~ 1 hour drive from Seronera area of Serengeti.
We are traveling from Dec 26 through January 4th in Northern Circuit.
As to camps - treetops looks like it has a great view, but is further away from game in Tarangire (others can correct me here). Swala sounds very romantic and a great camp to view animals from your deck. We selected Oliver's due to authenticity and availability. Little more rustic, like a Nomad camp perhaps with wooden toilet box. All amenities inside the tent - not a shared external outhouse/toilets.
Gibb's Farm is described as having great food and sounded like a homestyle atmosphere. Many of the luxury tour groups stop there for lunches enroute to other parks. We also were more into value and experience. Plantation Lodge is newer.
If you choose January - consider Mbuzi Mawe (tented camp), but if you do choose February suggest you do focus on Ndutu with a stay in Central Serengeti (serena?).
Are you planning on overland / driving safari with no flights? You might find it more enjoyable to take shorter drives going east to west and fly from Serengeti back to Arusha - Kilimanjaro airport.
Manyara
Will share the driving distances ATR provided me for location-to-location below. Do not know exact distance you've requested, but this detail may help you. Arusha Coffee Lodge may be closer to Tarangire than Kigononi, but don't know.
Arusha Kigongoni to Oliver's Camp Tarangire = ~ 4 hours which include game drive as entering Tarangire
Oliver's Camp to Mto wa Mbu, near Manyara - (we wanted to stop off for drive through Manyara NP) = ~ 4 hours including "game drive" as exiting Tarangire.
Manyara to Gibbs Farm (Karatu) = 30 minutes
Gibbs Farm to Ngorongoro Sopa = 2.5 hours. This drive might be 30-45 shorter if you stay at Serena instead.
Ngorongoro Crater to Oldupai (after safari in crater) = 1 hour
Oldupai to Ndutu Lodge = 1-2 hours
Ndutu Lodge to Seronera area = 2.5 hours
Mbuzi Mawe is ~ 1 hour drive from Seronera area of Serengeti.
We are traveling from Dec 26 through January 4th in Northern Circuit.
As to camps - treetops looks like it has a great view, but is further away from game in Tarangire (others can correct me here). Swala sounds very romantic and a great camp to view animals from your deck. We selected Oliver's due to authenticity and availability. Little more rustic, like a Nomad camp perhaps with wooden toilet box. All amenities inside the tent - not a shared external outhouse/toilets.
Gibb's Farm is described as having great food and sounded like a homestyle atmosphere. Many of the luxury tour groups stop there for lunches enroute to other parks. We also were more into value and experience. Plantation Lodge is newer.
If you choose January - consider Mbuzi Mawe (tented camp), but if you do choose February suggest you do focus on Ndutu with a stay in Central Serengeti (serena?).
Are you planning on overland / driving safari with no flights? You might find it more enjoyable to take shorter drives going east to west and fly from Serengeti back to Arusha - Kilimanjaro airport.
Manyara
May 30th, 2006, 01:23 AM
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Dear Galiano,
I also think you have a good itinerary here. Here is my two cents:
A tented camp would be great. I'd add it to Ndutu area.
Late Jan/February is a good time for zebra and wildebeest foaling.
From Seronera to Gibb's is a long drive but do-able at 5 hours or so, give or take what stops you make along the way. The main road will be bumpy until the Ngornogoro Highlands. Then it is paved. This is a huge improvement from earlier years when the main road was gravel after the Mbuyuni crossraods on the Arusha-Tarangire road.
You say you are interested in villages and markets. You don't mention here what culture stops you intend incorporating.
You won't see any villages and markets if you fly. I'm not a big fan of flights (I know I'll get a few responses to that!) I've done a fair bit of flying in and out, and over time it occurred to me that I was island-hopping from wildlife zone to wildlife zone. These parks will not survive as islands. They need to be seen, really seen, in the context of what surrounds them. Traveling the longer distances by road removes wildlife as the top priorty; however, those pot-holed excuses for roads are the means by which Tanzanian farmers take their produce to market and women their ill children to medical clinics, and from which half of all Tanzanians live a day's walk away. You are doing a lot for wildife conservation by understanding that these are what impacts it most.
Maybe that is too serious.
Reggie is the self-taught culinary wonder in Gibb's Farm kitchen. I never miss his lunch. He makes a comfort food from my childhood--chocolate brownie pudding. Food is also great the Plantation Lodge, which I find a little quieter than Gibb's.
Mama Tembo
I also think you have a good itinerary here. Here is my two cents:
A tented camp would be great. I'd add it to Ndutu area.
Late Jan/February is a good time for zebra and wildebeest foaling.
From Seronera to Gibb's is a long drive but do-able at 5 hours or so, give or take what stops you make along the way. The main road will be bumpy until the Ngornogoro Highlands. Then it is paved. This is a huge improvement from earlier years when the main road was gravel after the Mbuyuni crossraods on the Arusha-Tarangire road.
You say you are interested in villages and markets. You don't mention here what culture stops you intend incorporating.
You won't see any villages and markets if you fly. I'm not a big fan of flights (I know I'll get a few responses to that!) I've done a fair bit of flying in and out, and over time it occurred to me that I was island-hopping from wildlife zone to wildlife zone. These parks will not survive as islands. They need to be seen, really seen, in the context of what surrounds them. Traveling the longer distances by road removes wildlife as the top priorty; however, those pot-holed excuses for roads are the means by which Tanzanian farmers take their produce to market and women their ill children to medical clinics, and from which half of all Tanzanians live a day's walk away. You are doing a lot for wildife conservation by understanding that these are what impacts it most.
Maybe that is too serious.
Reggie is the self-taught culinary wonder in Gibb's Farm kitchen. I never miss his lunch. He makes a comfort food from my childhood--chocolate brownie pudding. Food is also great the Plantation Lodge, which I find a little quieter than Gibb's.
Mama Tembo
May 30th, 2006, 08:49 AM
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Bat : Thanks for the help. We'll look at Nomad's Camp as an option.
Atravelyn : I think you are right about 3 nights in the Serengeti. We will try to cut one night somewhere else.
Lovetodiscover : Thanks for the driving times. This is the type of information that makes planning easier for sure. Now I can re think our stops a bit better. We are really trying to avoid flying .
Mamatembo : We haven't any planned cultural or village stops along the way because I have no idea how or where. We certainly want to stop at the Odavai and would like to see markets and villages. Have you any suggestions as to highlights. We aren't coming to Tanzania just for animals and would like to get a sense of how the people live etc. I totally agree with you about being on the road vs. being in the air. I would rather put up with a long dusty drive and being able to see the country and people up close than do a short hop in a plane and not see anything.
So thanks everyone so far. We are months away from our trip but the more planning we do the better it's likely to be. Any input will be appreciated.
Atravelyn : I think you are right about 3 nights in the Serengeti. We will try to cut one night somewhere else.
Lovetodiscover : Thanks for the driving times. This is the type of information that makes planning easier for sure. Now I can re think our stops a bit better. We are really trying to avoid flying .
Mamatembo : We haven't any planned cultural or village stops along the way because I have no idea how or where. We certainly want to stop at the Odavai and would like to see markets and villages. Have you any suggestions as to highlights. We aren't coming to Tanzania just for animals and would like to get a sense of how the people live etc. I totally agree with you about being on the road vs. being in the air. I would rather put up with a long dusty drive and being able to see the country and people up close than do a short hop in a plane and not see anything.
So thanks everyone so far. We are months away from our trip but the more planning we do the better it's likely to be. Any input will be appreciated.
May 30th, 2006, 09:00 AM
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Galiano,
You are so wise to plan early because it always seems to take longer than one would expect to finalize the plans. Plus you get more bang for your travel buck by enjoying the excitement of the planning stages without feeling rushed.
For the cultural aspect, if you let your agent know up front that this is important, then visits can be scheduled. Also if you let the guide know, then impromptu opportunities can be taken advantage of.
You are so wise to plan early because it always seems to take longer than one would expect to finalize the plans. Plus you get more bang for your travel buck by enjoying the excitement of the planning stages without feeling rushed.
For the cultural aspect, if you let your agent know up front that this is important, then visits can be scheduled. Also if you let the guide know, then impromptu opportunities can be taken advantage of.
May 30th, 2006, 09:32 AM
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Regarding fly vs drive, I believe lovetodiscover's recommendation was to drive one direction and fly back (not to be confused with all fly vs all drive). This works well on a northern Tanzania circuit safari as most all drive itineraries seem to take the same route in and out. There are other routes you can take (i.e. via Lake Natron area back to Arusha) so that you're not driving back the same way you came which I think would make for a more interesting all drive itinerary but maybe not as focused on game viewing.
May 30th, 2006, 02:51 PM
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Atravelyn - I couldn't agree with you more about the fun of planning a trip. With the net now offering amazing forums like this one and tools like the Kiliwarrior use of Google Earth, planning a trip really is great fun. We're just back from Paris and I must have spent months on the web getting ideas. I have a long way to go with our Tanzania safari but so far it's been really interesting trying to plan an itinerary.
Patty - We still hope not to fly at all but we need to find out how arduous a trip it will be if we drive back from the Central Serengeti to Arusha with one stop over likely at Gibb's Farm.
Patty - We still hope not to fly at all but we need to find out how arduous a trip it will be if we drive back from the Central Serengeti to Arusha with one stop over likely at Gibb's Farm.
May 30th, 2006, 09:03 PM
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Dear Galiano,
I will reply with suggestions for cultural stops, but I am away from my own computer for a few days and have only a few minutes.
Let me ask you this: Do you mind a half-day guided walk?
You might want to check out the cultural tourism program that is set up in various TZ villages by the Dutch ngo SNV. Go to website www.earthfoot.org/guides/tctco.htm and then to villages menu. I can attest that not all the village programs are alike, but some like Mtu wa Mbu's (the town you will pass through at Lake Manyara) and Longido (several hours drive north of Arusha in the direction of Kenya on a good road) are well put together. Longido and its surrounding area are better choices I think for visiting the Maasai than stopping at "cultural bomas" on the road between the Ngorongoro Conservation Area and the Serengeti. There is also Monduli for the Maasai, and the Barabaig people in the Katesh area. Some of the villages will require that you add a day at the end of your safari. The website will give you some ideas. (Let me know if the link doesn't work.) If you do like the sounds of a walk then I can suggest a few in the Ngorongoro Highlands which brings you into contact with the Maasai who are further off the tourist track. (I'll post them here when I return.) Mtu might not be a bad choice. There is more there than the handicraft market, which is what many schedules allow time for. It is a melting pot of farming cultures, including the settled Maasai. You might even get to visit a laibon, a Maasai medicine man.
Your moniker: It isn't for Galiano Island by any chance?
MT
I will reply with suggestions for cultural stops, but I am away from my own computer for a few days and have only a few minutes.
Let me ask you this: Do you mind a half-day guided walk?
You might want to check out the cultural tourism program that is set up in various TZ villages by the Dutch ngo SNV. Go to website www.earthfoot.org/guides/tctco.htm and then to villages menu. I can attest that not all the village programs are alike, but some like Mtu wa Mbu's (the town you will pass through at Lake Manyara) and Longido (several hours drive north of Arusha in the direction of Kenya on a good road) are well put together. Longido and its surrounding area are better choices I think for visiting the Maasai than stopping at "cultural bomas" on the road between the Ngorongoro Conservation Area and the Serengeti. There is also Monduli for the Maasai, and the Barabaig people in the Katesh area. Some of the villages will require that you add a day at the end of your safari. The website will give you some ideas. (Let me know if the link doesn't work.) If you do like the sounds of a walk then I can suggest a few in the Ngorongoro Highlands which brings you into contact with the Maasai who are further off the tourist track. (I'll post them here when I return.) Mtu might not be a bad choice. There is more there than the handicraft market, which is what many schedules allow time for. It is a melting pot of farming cultures, including the settled Maasai. You might even get to visit a laibon, a Maasai medicine man.
Your moniker: It isn't for Galiano Island by any chance?
MT
May 31st, 2006, 06:48 AM
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galiano:
For a Feb trip I'd seriously consider 3 nights Ndutu, 2 Serengeti [I am not sure about Jan]. My reason is that Ndutu is less crowded and has off-road driving--off-road driving makes a big difference. Ndutu is also the "expected" Feb place to be for the calving. Both Rocco and I added time to Ndutu (I in Feb and he in March) and we were both glad that we did--and for me, the full migration was not even there--but as I said, fewer vehicles and off-road made it great (plus Nomad). [you might check our trip reports if you have not already.)
For a Feb trip I'd seriously consider 3 nights Ndutu, 2 Serengeti [I am not sure about Jan]. My reason is that Ndutu is less crowded and has off-road driving--off-road driving makes a big difference. Ndutu is also the "expected" Feb place to be for the calving. Both Rocco and I added time to Ndutu (I in Feb and he in March) and we were both glad that we did--and for me, the full migration was not even there--but as I said, fewer vehicles and off-road made it great (plus Nomad). [you might check our trip reports if you have not already.)
May 31st, 2006, 08:17 AM
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Mama Tembo :
First - yes it is Galiano Island. I lived there for many years until recently. Thanks for the help on cultural experiences. I'll have a good look at the website you've suggested. On our travels we have always loved local markets so I'm hoping to find out where and when they occur in Tanzania. If you know of any bigger ones I'd love to hear about them.
Bat - Thanks for the input. I suppose this itinerary will be flexible until I learn more about what might be ideal and I'll certainly consider an extra day in Ndutu. The suggestions on this board are fantastic. Planning is half the fun !
First - yes it is Galiano Island. I lived there for many years until recently. Thanks for the help on cultural experiences. I'll have a good look at the website you've suggested. On our travels we have always loved local markets so I'm hoping to find out where and when they occur in Tanzania. If you know of any bigger ones I'd love to hear about them.
Bat - Thanks for the input. I suppose this itinerary will be flexible until I learn more about what might be ideal and I'll certainly consider an extra day in Ndutu. The suggestions on this board are fantastic. Planning is half the fun !
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