State Dept Warning India
Dec 5th, 2008, 07:43 AM
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State Dept Warning India
Well, we are still traveling to Northern India Dec 13 and hope our guide has a large rifle and sniffer dog with him. The State Dept. just issued a 2 day warning for Delhi airport, which we are flying into. I registered with the State Dept which I have never done before.
Having lived in South Africa, taking my life in my hands each time I left my armed house, I am somewhat used to danger. And I have been really looking forward to this trip. My agent keeps telling me all will be well and keeps sending pictures of happy Indians in Delhi.
.Any further thoughts or advice. Am I crazy??
Kim
Having lived in South Africa, taking my life in my hands each time I left my armed house, I am somewhat used to danger. And I have been really looking forward to this trip. My agent keeps telling me all will be well and keeps sending pictures of happy Indians in Delhi.
.Any further thoughts or advice. Am I crazy??
Kim
Dec 5th, 2008, 07:57 AM
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Kim: You are brave to travel to India at the present time. You are not alone. I am also headed to Delhi this weekend. Praying and hoping everything will be peaceful during my travel and my stay. It is nervewreacking just to read and hear the news, but life has to go on.
Have consulted folks I know in India and they are all encouraging me to come. I do have a very personal important matter to work on and thus must travel right now, since it cannot be postponed.
Thus, trying to be braver than usual.
Hoping some international travelers who may be at the Indian airports presently may write some encouraging words to us.
in the meantime, have a safe journey.
Have consulted folks I know in India and they are all encouraging me to come. I do have a very personal important matter to work on and thus must travel right now, since it cannot be postponed.
Thus, trying to be braver than usual.
Hoping some international travelers who may be at the Indian airports presently may write some encouraging words to us.
in the meantime, have a safe journey.
Dec 5th, 2008, 08:28 AM
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But for me, this is supposed to be a joyous vacation, the trip of a lifetime, so to speak. If this were business, I think I could justify it. But I hate to lose all the money I have put into this, but yet don't want to lose something more important, i. e. my life or my daughter's life.
Sometimes I think I am too brave for my own good, but must have good karma or something, as only one seriously dangerous thing has happened to me, and that was being carried out by a crowd of angry Zulu workers at my hospital in South Africa. And I lived to tell the tale.
Sometimes I think I am too brave for my own good, but must have good karma or something, as only one seriously dangerous thing has happened to me, and that was being carried out by a crowd of angry Zulu workers at my hospital in South Africa. And I lived to tell the tale.
Dec 5th, 2008, 06:07 PM
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We leave next week for Mumbai, Kolkata, Delhi and Nepal. Any information that you could share would be appreciated. We are not experienced travelers, so things seem intimidating. I hope you all have wonderful trips.
Dec 5th, 2008, 10:59 PM
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Let me speak to the specific before commenting on the general. I have just read the travel warning posted for today by the US State Department. With regard to the airports, the statement in the third paragraph that one must show a photo ID to enter Indian airports have been in place for years, so I don’t know why this has been included in the travel warning as if it were a new requirement. I have been traveling to India for the last 15 years and don’t remember a time when I was not required to show a passport, and also a ticket, to gain entry to the airport. People who are not actually taking flights are simply not allowed into the airport. (Of course a terrorist can buy a ticket, but at least it keeps some people out.) The people monitoring access are members of the armed forces and have guns, they are not just security guards hired by the hour. The 2-hour prior arrival time is also quite standard, so again I don’t know why this is mentioned as if it were a newly-instituted rule. All bags are screened prior to even getting to the check-in counters, and again this has been the procedure for years, so I don’t know why this is being mentioned. It is possible that there may now be checks of cars before they reach the departure/arrival areas, this may cause some delays. As far as personal screening, in addition to going through a metal detector, the procedure which I have undergone in India for at least the last 15 years has been that security personal use a wand and also generally will frisk a passenger; it appears that this may now occur at several checkpoints before boarding. (There is a separate area for women, Indians are more sensitive to this than you would be, rest assured.) Each piece of hand baggage is tagged and stamped after it has gone through the x-ray screening, and the tags are checked before one is allowed to board. (This is not mentioned on the travel warning, interestingly, but has been in place for years.) Many years ago travelers were required to remove all batteries from cameras and other electrical equipment which was going to be carried on board, and were put in the hold during a flight, this may be re-instituted during this “warning” period. (It is possible to make explosive devices from batteries.) Again, this is not mentioned in the warning.
In general, I did not find the warning particularly useful as it really did not give any new information.
The warning for Delhi airport expires today. It may of course be renewed, but the above security measures, other than the checking of cars, have been in place for over a decade, and I would expect that they would continue to be in place for the future.
For some general comments: the US State Department has had warnings in place for many, many places for many, many years. They take a VERY CONSERVATIVE approach. They have to, of course. I do not believe, however, that the US State Department posted <i>any</i> warnings about an expected attack by sea on hotels in Mumbai, which they allegedly knew about and which intelligence they allegedly shared with Indian security officials about 3 weeks before the attacks actually occurred, so one has to wonder how helpful their published warnings actually are to the average traveler.
Please take a moment to read the US State Department briefs for countries you have been to or know well, and see how they stack up to conditions as you know them to be on the ground; this may or may not give you comfort. Here is what the US State Dept has to say about travel in the United Kingdom: “Americans are reminded to remain vigilant with regard to their personal security and to exercise caution.” That is <i>almost verbatim</i> to what is on the Indian page, albeit the Indian page has many more specific examples of recent events which have taken place there.”
Here are some for what most people would consider relatively “safe” countries in Europe:
Germany: “Germany regularly experiences demonstrations on a variety of political and economic themes. Prior police approval is required for public demonstrations, and police oversight is routinely provided for participants and passersby. Nonetheless, these demonstrations can attract counter-demonstrators and have the potential to turn violent. In addition, hooligans, most often young intoxicated “skinheads” have been known to harass or even attack people whom they believe to be foreigners or members of rival groups. On occasion, Americans have reported that they were assaulted for racial reasons or because they appeared “foreign.” All Americans are cautioned to avoid the area around protests and demonstrations and to check local media for updates on the situation.”
Italy: “Demonstrations may have an anti-American character. Even demonstrations intended to be peaceful have the potential to turn into confrontational situations and possibly escalate into violence. U.S. citizens traveling or residing in Italy should take common sense precautions and follow news reports carefully in order to avoid demonstrations and to be aware of heightened security and potential delays when they occur. “
Spain: “Spain’s proximity to North Africa makes it vulnerable to attack from Al Qaeda of the Maghreb terrorists. Americans are reminded to remain vigilant with regard to their personal security and to exercise caution.”
If you read their briefs for some other places (like South Africa and Chile) you probably would never go to those places. And of course it is really going to be hard to stop 2 or 25 gunmen with machine guns, sufficient ammunition and a willingness to die, at least not for the first 30 minutes or so. That can happen anywhere, like college campuses, as has been well demonstrated in the US. And probably no one traveling to work in London in July 2005 or in Madrid in March 2004 was expecting to be killed on the way to the office. So no one really knows where the next attack is coming from, and to expect it to occur where the last attack occurred would not seem to be supported by any evidence. If anything, it probably is statistically <i>less</i> likely to occur in the same place, but I am not a mathematician.
Finally, some personal observations. I have not lived in the US in almost 20 years. I can tell you as a long-time expat that many people who have not lived in the US have the perception the US is a place of rampant crime where everyone has a gun. This perception is largely derived from the media. I know that the reality is quite different. That perception however, was only made worse by September 11, when terrorism was added to the mix, and many people did not want to travel to the US after September 11. Some people still feel that way I can tell you. I think many US citizens would be offended by both notions; mainly because they are not based on what they know to be true. No one can tell you whether or not to go to India, that is really a matter of one’s own comfort level. Knowing what I know about India, I personally would go. But if you are not comfortable, then you should not, money or no money. There is no cowardice involved in not going, it really is a very individual, personal, decision.
In general, I did not find the warning particularly useful as it really did not give any new information.
The warning for Delhi airport expires today. It may of course be renewed, but the above security measures, other than the checking of cars, have been in place for over a decade, and I would expect that they would continue to be in place for the future.
For some general comments: the US State Department has had warnings in place for many, many places for many, many years. They take a VERY CONSERVATIVE approach. They have to, of course. I do not believe, however, that the US State Department posted <i>any</i> warnings about an expected attack by sea on hotels in Mumbai, which they allegedly knew about and which intelligence they allegedly shared with Indian security officials about 3 weeks before the attacks actually occurred, so one has to wonder how helpful their published warnings actually are to the average traveler.
Please take a moment to read the US State Department briefs for countries you have been to or know well, and see how they stack up to conditions as you know them to be on the ground; this may or may not give you comfort. Here is what the US State Dept has to say about travel in the United Kingdom: “Americans are reminded to remain vigilant with regard to their personal security and to exercise caution.” That is <i>almost verbatim</i> to what is on the Indian page, albeit the Indian page has many more specific examples of recent events which have taken place there.”
Here are some for what most people would consider relatively “safe” countries in Europe:
Germany: “Germany regularly experiences demonstrations on a variety of political and economic themes. Prior police approval is required for public demonstrations, and police oversight is routinely provided for participants and passersby. Nonetheless, these demonstrations can attract counter-demonstrators and have the potential to turn violent. In addition, hooligans, most often young intoxicated “skinheads” have been known to harass or even attack people whom they believe to be foreigners or members of rival groups. On occasion, Americans have reported that they were assaulted for racial reasons or because they appeared “foreign.” All Americans are cautioned to avoid the area around protests and demonstrations and to check local media for updates on the situation.”
Italy: “Demonstrations may have an anti-American character. Even demonstrations intended to be peaceful have the potential to turn into confrontational situations and possibly escalate into violence. U.S. citizens traveling or residing in Italy should take common sense precautions and follow news reports carefully in order to avoid demonstrations and to be aware of heightened security and potential delays when they occur. “
Spain: “Spain’s proximity to North Africa makes it vulnerable to attack from Al Qaeda of the Maghreb terrorists. Americans are reminded to remain vigilant with regard to their personal security and to exercise caution.”
If you read their briefs for some other places (like South Africa and Chile) you probably would never go to those places. And of course it is really going to be hard to stop 2 or 25 gunmen with machine guns, sufficient ammunition and a willingness to die, at least not for the first 30 minutes or so. That can happen anywhere, like college campuses, as has been well demonstrated in the US. And probably no one traveling to work in London in July 2005 or in Madrid in March 2004 was expecting to be killed on the way to the office. So no one really knows where the next attack is coming from, and to expect it to occur where the last attack occurred would not seem to be supported by any evidence. If anything, it probably is statistically <i>less</i> likely to occur in the same place, but I am not a mathematician.
Finally, some personal observations. I have not lived in the US in almost 20 years. I can tell you as a long-time expat that many people who have not lived in the US have the perception the US is a place of rampant crime where everyone has a gun. This perception is largely derived from the media. I know that the reality is quite different. That perception however, was only made worse by September 11, when terrorism was added to the mix, and many people did not want to travel to the US after September 11. Some people still feel that way I can tell you. I think many US citizens would be offended by both notions; mainly because they are not based on what they know to be true. No one can tell you whether or not to go to India, that is really a matter of one’s own comfort level. Knowing what I know about India, I personally would go. But if you are not comfortable, then you should not, money or no money. There is no cowardice involved in not going, it really is a very individual, personal, decision.
Dec 6th, 2008, 12:07 AM
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Masterly summation Cicerone. The core issue is are we willing to let the terroists dictate our travel plans? They have a newer and more diabolic plan up their sleeve all the time. Who would have thought of planes flying into buildings or commando-style landing at the Gateway of India? Rest assured there is a deranged bunch out there plotting away another London or Madrid or Bali. So long as terrorists keep getting funding (from well known sources) and there are stagnant countries (again well known) happy to be breeding grounds, we are vulnerable anywhere in the world.
Dec 6th, 2008, 01:48 PM
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Thanks, Cicerone - your information was perfect and appreciated. It pretty much was in line with what we have been thinking. The hard part is dealing with the people who seem to want to put a damper on your adventure.
We're off to India and are very excited about what awaits us there!
We're off to India and are very excited about what awaits us there!
