Underhill

Interesting article today at The New York Times site:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/23/wo...23cafe.html?em

111op

It is an interesting article.

I'll make some observations not directly related to the article. I do think that the type of the establishment matters.

So maybe that type of cafe isn't doing well, but others are still thriving. For example, I went to Toraya in Paris last week. It's a Japanese pastry shop on r. Florentin, and there used to be a store in NYC too. The place was absolutely packed for lunch. When I tried to take my parents there in June, there was a long wait too. We didn't end up eating there, but I decided to wait and got to sit down last week.

The noodle shops on r. Ste-Anne are also doing very well.

It's the same here in NYC. From looking at some restaurants, you'd not think that there's actually a recession. And whenever I've been in Cafe Grumpy in Chelsea, it's been crowded. Granted, that's not a French cafe, but people are still paying $4 for their coffees.

So maybe there are just too many French cafes and some need to close. It's an economic reality, I suppose.

Coquelicot

I have discussed this with my personal banker and we've decided on a bailout.
First we have to come up with our airfare so we can deliver our aid package in person.

Cries_Van_Notebook

The line was out the door for the Starbuck's on Blvd. St. Germain near St. Peres intersection just the other day. I think most young people want to be able to grab a coffee and a muffin and get going. They don't have time to sit.

Many other places wear also packed, like Flore and Deux Maggots where you can still sit outside and have a ciggie.

Marketing and location are also key. I always sat at a cafe were I would have a good view of people passing by. I love to look at shoes.

Miss Thang au Lait de Gin

Weadles

As a former bakery owner, I do feel sympathetic to the plight of the cafe owners. However, some of the fault lies in the quality and price of the cafe food. Whene we visted Paris last summer, the food we tasted at various cafes was not just disappointing but nearly inedible and expensive.

DalaiLlama

If it had been called Les Deux Maggots as per the previous post, it would have closed down long ago...

judyremis

Very interesting article Underhill. Thanks for posting it. My DH and I were a trifle meloncholy thinking about the cafes.

Rhea58

I read this article too.

THe changing way of French life may contribute more to the cafes demise.

caroline_edinburgh

Everywhere I saw in Paris over the weekend was busy.

ira

From the article,

" on Jan. 1 of this year, after much huffing and puffing, France extended its smoking ban to bars, cafes and restaurants.

Marco Mayeux, 42, the bartender of Le Relais, a Paris cafe in the 18th Arrondissement, said the ban alone had cut his coffee and bar business by 20 percent".

I submit that only a sadist would prevent people from smoking while drinking coffee or alcohol.

Challiman

Ira, I beg to differ. First trip to Paris in 2006, I had a headache and sniffles the whole time, the smoke nearly killed me. DH and I are not smokers and we were often surrounded by smoke. We'd sit outside the cafes on the edges where we'd be less likely to have smoke and still we were bothered.
France October 2008, what a big difference. It was so much better, no headache, no sniffles, no coughing fits in restaurants.
I'm not one who can't tolerate some smoke, but when so many were smoking in so many places, it just made it very uncomfortable.
DS smokes, which drives us nuts, but never in our home or cars.
I sympathize with smokers, but we certainly enjoyed France much more this time around.

tod

Thanks for the post Underhill - Interesting, but the countries including mine - South Africa, went through this smoking ban years ago and recovered quite well. It started off rough for a while and now our cafes and restaurants are packed because inside we eat in peace and outside (even with an awning down to the ground sometimes) people smoke, eat & drink and we are all as happy as can be.
It will get better, especially next year when we are flying over to spend our poor weak little rands to help them along!LOL

hetismij

This is something which applies in the UK and in the Netherlands too.
Café and pub owners are keen to blame the smoking ban (which is widely disregarded here in NL btw) but forget to mention that their prices have gone up faster than inflation, and because of this people are choosing to buy their booze in the supermarket for half the price and drink it at home.
Here in NL prices in cafés and restaurants have gone up by nearly double the rate of inflation. It started with the conversion to the Euro - when they just changed the guilder sign to a euro sign, and has continued ever since.
It has little to do with the smoking ban or the credit crunch and everything to do with their greed.
Good restaurants here are still packed, mediocre ones are empty. It's the same with cafés to some extent.

ekscrunchy

Here is an interesting, vaguely related article, that I remembered from a couple of years ago:


http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/05/09/news/journal.php

Dukey

"I submit that only a sadist would prevent people from smoking while drinking coffee or alcohol."

Some people will do or say ANYTHING to rationalize their nicotine habit, right, Ira..and YES I AM going to stay on your ass about it for as long as possible..if I didn't think sohighly of you on MOST days I wouldn't bother...

beaupeep

"I submit that only a sadist would prevent people from smoking while drinking coffee or alcohol."

And I submit that only a sadist or smoker would inflict/enforce their disgusting habit on others who wish to breathe and enjoy their meals.

hmmm

I don't smoke, though I am content to let the proprietors decide whether they wish to permit smoking on their premises. If an establishment permits smoking, those disgusted should be free to find and enjoy a smoke-free environment at places more suited to their liking.

WillTravel

What has driven the no-smoking regulations in many places is that governments and insurance programs do not want to pay for the damage caused by second-hand smoke, for the waiters and waitresses. Imagine, for example, a pregnant waitress who is forced to work in a smoky environment, which is a health hazard for both her and her fetus.

This was one of my few complaints about Vienna. In Europe, even Italy and Spain have moved to no inside smoking, for the most part, but this is still alive and well in Vienna.

beaupeep

I live in Lausanne Switzerland and there are three, THREE! non-smoking restaurants here. Why should we be limited to three and smokers get to choose from hundreds of restaurants?

hmmm

I am trying to imagine anyone who is not incarcerated who is "being forced to work."