blithespirit

Last month I posted a trip report about a vacation my family and I took to Italy. I mentioned the six of us had missed our initial Air France flight out of New York's JFK because our flights from the West Coast - along with 40-50 other flights that afternoon - were prevented from landing for 2.5 hours because of severe THUNDERSTORMS. (In fact my flight had to re-fuel in upstate NY and my sons'flight re-fuled in PA.) By the time we got to the AF counter 15 minutes before take-off, Air France said that our 6 RT tickets to Italy were no longer valid. The agent said we could continue on if we purchased new tickets at day-of-departure prices(!) -- which meant an EXTRA $6500 -- besides the $5580 I'd already paid for the tickets! They got us on a flight 1.5 hours later, but what a heart-breaking penalty!

Well, here is the outcome of my request for a refund:
In a written reply to my written inquiry, Air France said that while they sympathized, we were however not due a refund and that the NY agent was kind not to charge us another $200 pp penalty! I feel this policy is incredibly outrageous. Their reason was that though I had scheduled to allow us 3 hours in NY to catch this AF flight, I had "not booked all the flights together." (In other words, I used Expedia.com to book the Air France flights and JetBlue.com and United.com to book the West Coast flights.)

Has anyone had a similar experience? Can anyone offer some leads about what I might do? Would a lawyer take such a case? I'm waiting to hear from ABC's "7 on Your Side" a consumer advocacy segment on TV, but I'm beginning to feel I may just have to take it on the chin.

WillTravel

What do the rules of your tickets say? I suspect you are out of luck. If you had called and rebooked before you left the West Coast, or even if you had called from an airphone while on the plane, you probably could have changed the flights and been charged some penalty, but not nearly as high.

cf5657

You should have demanded to see a supervisor when it happened. It's hard to fix things like this after the fact. Did you try to dispute it with your credit card company? I'd also write to the BBB and Attorney General. It may or may not make Air France do something but at least it makes them respond to you. The next time something like that happens you have to fix it right then and there. I've had this happen several times if you call enough people you'll eventually get one of them that will do what you want as long as your nice but firm. If you scream at them you won't get very far.

orangetravelcat

I'm afraid you're going to have to eat the loss. That's why I never book multiple airlines on different tickets for the same day. No matter how much time you allow to make your connection, you never know what can happen - as in your case. Basically, you are screwed. It would have been nice if AF had allowed you to stand by for the next flight but that might now have been allowed by the rules of your fare. Sounds like you had nonrefundable tickets, which have lots of restrictions and you took a chance on making our connection, and unfortunately, you lost.

WillTravel

The one thing I'm wondering is if United rules might apply. United is really good about allowing same-day standbys. However, that idea is a real longshot. Why not post at TravelBuzz at http://www.flyertalk.com/forum to get feedback from experienced flyers?

suze

If they were booked as separate tickets, (i.e., the segments were in no way tied to each other) I don't believe the airline would have any obligation, would they?

Especially since the delay was weather driven ("acts of god&quot that even further relieves the carrier of responsibility.

LoveItaly

Blithespirit, what a terrible incident. I can only imagine how devasted you were (not to mention your bank account). I live near the Sacrmaneto airport and have thought about flying JetBlue from there to JFK and than taking a flight from there to Italy on another airline. Would sure save money BUT I have been afraid to do that because as you learned if you don't make your flight from JFK in time to board you are out of luck. Airlines are not giving anyone any breaks as they are all in big financial problems.
If you had purchased straight through than they would have accomodated you on the next available flight they could get you on. I have been wondering if I was being overconcerned about the rules, if I would be spending more money than necessary. Been thinking about this for two weeks. After reading your heartbreaking story I will know fly NW/KLM all the way from the west coast to Italy. With my luck I would have the problem you had if I flew to JFK on JetBlue (or any other airline that was not also flying me to Italy. I never have luck with "bargains" although so many people do. I really don't think you are going to get a cent back but for this amount of money I would sure follow through as you are. Good luck.

Robert2533

I'm afraid this incident is the perfect example of why you should always book your complete trip through either one carrier, foreign or domestic, or through a travel agent, a travel professional, who can handle everything for you, including any flight delay problems. And don't forget about picking up a little travel insurance while you're at it, just in case. You saved a couple of hundred dollars in agents fees only to end up playing a whole lot more.

Perhaps people will finally learn to never book multiple connections, especially overseas, through the on-line discount services. They are perfectly fine if you're going from point A to point B where you have no chance of missing a connection, but never when you have one or more connections to make.

As this incident has taught us, you're on your own, and in this case, neither Air France, nor any other airline, would have any responsibility.

Ryan

Businesses ripping people off is one thing, the airline charging you a penalty for missing the flight, something that is likely stated on their contract of carriage or under the fare rules for your ticket is another. I can't see the BBB or the NY AG's office interceding when the airline didn't do anything remotely illegal.

While I'd suggest it would be better for their customer service to at least meet you half-way as a goodwill gesture, they aren't doing anything to you that you didn't agree to when you booked the ticket. Bad business, maybe. Illegal and worthy of a call to the AG, not even close.

The unfortunate reality is that you booked a flight to JFK separate from them. While 3 hours might seem like a long time, anyone who regularly flies on the East Coast during the Summer months can tell you about the havoc caused by thunderstorms.

You might try CondeNast Traveler's Ombudsman. They might be able to get AF to at least make some "goodwill" gesture.

degas

An AF "good will" gesture is to give you an extra bag of peanuts.

Patrick

I guess this somewhat relates. I would normally never do what you did -- book connecting flights from different sources for the very reason you found out. But a few years ago I booked flights from Naples (Florida) to Miami and then on to London Heathrow with American Airlines. On my own I booked a connecting flight from Heathrow to Dublin on AerLingus -- at a really cheap price -- but no refunds. Well, our flight from Naples to Miami was delayed and we missed our flight to London on AA, but they rebooked us on another flight just an hour later to Gatwick. (Also they bumped us from business class to first class). This part was expected and they came through as they should.
But here's the good part. When I complained that we had tickets from Heathrow to Dublin which now we couldn't use and couldn't get a refund for, would you believe they went ahead and booked us at their expense on BA from Gatwick to Dublin. I'm sure there was no reason for them to do that, but that's the difference between an airline that believes in customer service and one that doesn't.

Sue_xx_yy

Blithespirit, I'm so sorry you had this nasty experience. It is one thing to learn something the hard way, but boy did the fates have it in for you to have the lesson occur when SIX tickets were involved.

Alas, I must join the others and say you are probably out of luck. The contractual obligations of all the airlines involved are limited to getting you to whatever destination is on the ticket in question, from whatever origin is stated on said ticket. But the suggestion to try the ombudsman is a good one - the ombudsman might just convince AF to lower the penalty in view of SIX people being involved. It certainly can't hurt to try, and I do wish you luck.

In the last few years we have taken to doing as you did; we book an itinerary involving two separate tickets and two separate airlines (not even partnered.) However, we have never attempted connecting the two legs of the itinerary on the same day, in either direction. This is because our flying experience has included one too many instances of serious delays (way more than 2.5 hours.)

OReilly

blithespirit:

This is awful and you have my sympathies. With a party of six, I understand that your options were limited at the time.

It IS something I am aware of when I book separate tickets; i.e. I know that if I miss the connection, for whatever reason, I will have to pay for a new ticket. The rules were always the same, its just that the airlines are getting more aggressive about imposing the rules. In the past, they accommodated passengers on later flights; now they interpret ?non-flexible tickets? as just that. I can?t really blame them for doing so, because the major carriers are being destroyed by the low-cost carriers and the low-cost carriers are setting the rules for lower-priced tickets. For example, if you miss a Ryanair connection because of a delay on another Ryanair flight, you still have to buy a new ticket!

That having been said, I think that they dealt with you particularly harshly and unfairly. Over the past year I have missed three flights because of traffic congestion on the M25 to Heathrow on cheap tickets (totally MY fault!) and in all cases British Midland, BA and Aer Lingus put me on later flights for a small change fee; God Bless them, because they did not have to do it.

I am shocked that they did not at least compensate you for the return portion of your ticket. I think that you should continue to pursue the case and appeal to their sense of fairness and good business practice to get back at least for half the fare. Keep escalating.

I have worked for two airlines and, for future reference, you have to deal with these issues at the airport, not after. Again, I understand how difficult this would have been with a party of six. I had a similar incident a few years ago with a BA flight to Cairo, which I missed because of a transit problem from Gatwick. The S** of a B**** ticket agent, the RUDEST person I have ever met, told me the flights were booked up for the next two weeks and there was nothing he was willing to do. I refused to leave the desk until he brought me his supervisor IN PERSON. That took 45 minutes! 2 hours later, I left the airport with a free hotel room, coupons for dinner and breakfast, taxi transfers and a confirmed ticket for the next day (I am STILL kicking myself that I did not hold out for a first class seat).

Unfortunately, its far more difficult these days to thread the line between justifiably outraged passenger and perceived ?air rage lunatic? (and the airlines are taking advantage of this) but you ARE entitled to see a supervisor if you can?t get satisfaction from the front-line staff.

I sincerely hope you get something back from the airline and I wish you the very best of luck.

Best regards Ger

nanb

I am so sorry for this outrageously expensive problem you had !!!!!

I do hope you can get some satisfaction from them .

Ger, you rock!

uhoh_busted

Would this have been covered under trip insurance? I think when booking for that big a group (spending that much all at once!) , I certainly would have taken out trip insurance...however I don't know if that would have been covered, so I guess it's a moot point.

wren

I am surprised that since they had not given your seats away, they would charge such an outrageous amount. I, personally, would continue to pursue this. I wouldn't take my first reply as definite. I would just state my case again as calmly as possible, and try to get someone who sypathizes with me...perhaps on the phone.

Sue4

I'm wondering, too, if trip insurance would have covered you. I've been taking it out lately for trips abroad, mainly for the medical benefits if something should happen. I think the policies do mention "missed connections" benefit, but I'm not sure how much that is limited to. Would be interesting to know this.

crefloors

I just don't trust connecting flights. I live in Reno and my flights to Europe and Hawaii go out of SFO. I fly down the day before and stay in San Mateo or in the case of Europe, at my brother's house in Sonoma County. Even with the motel price for my Hawaii flights, the cost is worth it for my peace of mind. On the Europe flights, my brother and I just get the airporter from Santa Rosa on the day of our flight. I find I sleep better the night before, and I'm just so much more relaxed. Up here, unless you get the first flight out in the morning, any flight after that can be delayed. I've waited for crews to be flown in, planes comeing from Portland, Pheonix etc, that are running behind. This is just so much more relaxing to me as I know that plane to Heathrow is NOT going to wait for me. When i flew into SFO from Paris last trip, I booked the last flight going to Reno in the afternoon just incase the plane was late or I got caught up in customs somehow. I had about a three hour wait at SFO, but a couple of lattes, and a magazine makes the time go by pretty fast. I think things have changed as far as flexability and customer service, even from a few years ago and as the airlines seem to keep loosing huge amounts of money, and cut back on all the services and amenities, we are going to find that they are going to be less and less forgiving and will collect the money if they can. I'm sure I'm not the only one old enough to remember how delightful it was to fly, even in coach, before de-regulation. The airlines competed on service, not price so it was wonderful. But, things are different now and I guess some of the "crap" you had to go through is the price we pay for the low fares. I am so sorry you had to go through all that. What a shame. Hope you have better experiences in the future.

RufusTFirefly

Be very careful buying trip insurance--there are many, many exclusions and the policies are very careful in woreding what is covered. Read the coverages and exceptions carefully, and do compare different companys' offerings.

smacknmo

Don't know if this situation would be covered by travel insurance. I just got back from Italy. I had travel insurance and when all the rumors were circulating about Alitalia going on strike i asked my travel agent if it was covered if i had to switch carriers and she said that it was. I may have to pay up front but that the insurance co would re-imburse. Blithespirit, i am very sorry that happened to you. Thank you for sharing, i know i will ask about that in the future. I hope someone steps forward that can change your situation.