Aine

This may be a silly question, but could somebody please map out what an acceptable order for dinner for two would be at any regular restaurant in Italy ? - I have been to Italy a few times, but the guilt factor always takes over, and in order not to offend - or get those "funny looks" I always hear people talking about, we end up ordering all the courses, maybe splitting the dessert, which for us is way too much food. My concern for us is not about overspending, it is about overeating.

The guidebooks always say when Italians go out for dinner, they really do the whole deal, but of course they would not eat this way every night.

As it is a vacation we want the ambiance of a restaurant/trattoria over a pizza place or wine bar, we could not handle all the courses every night. The pasta course with wine and maybe dessert and coffee would be more than enough most nights. Also, is it permissible to split between two? I saw somewhere that you can ask for just a tiny serving of pasta, and then order the main meat course, but I never had the guts to do that? Has anyone here?

What would be an ideal order for you, with another person, on a night that you just wanted a nice dinner with wine but did not want to over do it?

GeoffHamer

Do what Italians do and order what you want. People normally have a first course which may be a cold dish, pasta or soup, then a main course, then a dessert if you're still hungry. There is no reason why anyone should order food that they do not want: ordering something then leaving it on the plate is more likely to offend than skipping a course.

Aine

Thanks Geoff! Problem is we NEVER leave it on the plate! The guidebooks always give me the impression that you should order everything. Thank goodness that is not strictly true, so is it any problem to skip the main course and just have everything else do you think?

flanneruk

I can think of no country in the world that's less fussy about this kind of nonsense.

The philosophy's simple. You order what you want. No-one gets offended, In my experience, no-one gives you any funny looks. If you think you're getting any, either you're imagining it, or you're in a restaurant every decent Iralian would be ashamed of.

If you know people who're getting funny looks, change your friends. If you're feeling guilty, go to confession. Guilt is not an appropriate emotion in menu selection.

Guidebooks who claim Italians "always" do anything (except what they feel like at the time, or what they feel will please someone else) are talking claptrap.

And anything, except serving bad food
or dressing in bad taste, is permissible (though try to avoid having coffee with the pudding course). You, after all, are the customer.

The rule of antipasto, primo, secondo, contorno, salato, formaggi, dolce is something reserved for extravagant celebrations. When Italians eat out normally (which they do frequently) they eat - well, normally.

Singletail

Those guidebooks that we all collectively spend millions on are just that: GUIDES. Sometimes they, and some folks here, get a little hung up on what is supposedly the thing to do.

I heartily second the idea that you can do what the Italians REALLY do, and that is order what they want and no more and no less. And any really decent (and I am NOT talking about price levels) restaurant, much less the server, wouldn't think of not complying with your mealtime wishes. Enjoy your trip and ALL your meals!

mamc

I agree. As in any restaurant, in any country, order what you want. Unless there is a prix fixe menu, you can decide how much you want and order only that. If you order pasta and that is all you want, there seldom will be a second thought by the waiter. I have never had a problem in Italy.

ellenem

I've been traveling in Italy for 20 years, and in all that time we ordered as we pleased. Sometimes we all ordered every course. With a good friend in less formal surroundings, we've ordered one meat and just put the plate between us, sharing neatly. Or we've ordered one pasta, one meat, and traded plates half way. Sometimes when ordering I've told the waiter that we would have only one primi pasta to share, then each have a secondi, and the pasta arrived portioned onto two plates. We've had five people digging into one delicious dessert of crema di marscapone at the same time.

Really, this is a non-issue. Don't feel pressured.

elaine

You know, imo there's a big difference between what is customary, and what is offensive or illegal.

In Italy it is customary to have cappuccino as a breakfast drink only, but I've never had a problem ordering it in the afternoon or evening. If someone in the kitchen is grumbling about "another one of those milky-coffee Americans again!", I really don't care.

I think it is customary to have a small portion of pasta included in an Italian meal (my Italian-American friends always dine that way at home as well) but I've never had a problem ordering pasta as my main course in Italy, or alternately, skipping it entirely.

The only food practice I can think of that might be frowned on or refused, is asking for a doggy bag. I've even seen people order Cokes with meals in upper-crust restaurants, and I've not seen that refused or discouraged either, not that I think it's a good way to appreciate the nuances of fine food.

suec1

You might want to check out the website www.santasusanna.org - it has an interesting article about eating italian style and also some resturant suggestions. I enjoyed reading it before my first trip to Italy. But actually several trips later I just order depending how hungry I am and I almost always share and split with my traveling companion. I've really only had one rude waiter but a couple of times I think my being an english speaker have made a waiter nervous in smaller resturants. Enjoy!

SalB

I'm no expert because we've only been to Rome once, this March. The first night we went to a pretty touristy restaurant because it was nearby and we were jet lagged. Two women (tourists) sitting beside us were having a menu grand fling ordering all the courses and truly enjoying them. When they got their antipasto, it was huge. They ate what they could and then started passing it around to the nearby tables, including us. The waiters thought it was great fun and joined in the party. And that's what it turned into . . . a fantastic party. We had people of all ages from about four countries, including the head waiter and one of our waiters who were tasting and talking (and half understanding) and enjoying all the food. It was a great introduction to Italy and we certainly didn't worry about what we were ordering the rest of the trip.

They just seemed to want everyone to enjoy themselves . . . and we certainly did!

I might add, we ate much less at the rest of our meals. We're the antipasto and pasta types without even thinking about desert. Neither of us eats meat often although we did have the occasional seafood. The only oddity I found was they often brought my coffee before I was truly finished with my meal. That's never happened in France but I figured I wasn't in France so just went with the flow. Coffee was great.

Enjoy and don't worry.

nytraveler

If all you want is a main dish and veggies - or a pasta and salad - that's absolutely fine. Nobody will care - you're there to enjoy yourselves - so don't angst.

And I've seen numerous people order coffee with desert - instead of after - and the waiters manage to cope with it - they already know you're Americans anyway so this won;t be a gigantic shock.

(I once had a - apparently new - waiter ask us about this - since he had served several american parties that day and we were the only ones who didn;t order coffee/dessert at the same time. He just didn;t understand why - thought they were in a big rush and needed to get done sooner - vs the Italian habit of making dinner last all night.)

Aine

Thanks guys - flanneruk you made me laugh out loud at myself - considering I haven't been "guilty" enough about anything else to go to confession for the past 25 years!

I am not American - I am European - but I did not know until recently about the naughty afternoon Cappuccino rule. To be honest, I have never come across a rude Italian, they have always been lovely and more than gracious, even to the one time (years ago when I was even greener than I am now) in my non-Italian speaking fustration, I wanted a regular cup of coffee - not espresso - (I guess American style coffee but I did not know how to explain it) so I asked the waiter for Caffelatte - No Latte! He just repeated it with a long "OOOOOOOKAAAAAAY" smiled sweetly at me (idiot that I was) and went off to do his best. My husband still teases me about it to this day.

I think I will put away the guidebooks, the over analysing of every little tip and go and enjoy that GORGEOUS country! Thanks.

Huitres

You can order what you like, however, the general rule of thumb is to get at least 2 dishes: a 1st course and the main meal. I have shared my meals with my friend (you ask for an extra plate) and often get a large pasta dish first, then a meat/chicken/fish dish as my main course. There is usually ample enough food to split between 2 people if you want to eat lighter. Dolci (dessert) and even coffee are not obligatory. It was nice to see in Rome that there are more and more of those cafes that have a "self-service" feel to them - you walk up to the counter and order pizza, lasagna, pasta, etc and then go sit down on a table and eat. You are not served nor do you have to tip. Check out the Campo Dei Fiori area in Rome, there are quite a few places like this there.

siena_us

While it is true that cappuccino is normally just for breakfast I klnow plenty of Italians here (in Italy) that drink caps in the afternoon if it is overcast or chilly. Not a problem so don't worry about it. Drink what you like, eat what you like, dress how you like (being respectful of religious places though) and enjoy yourselves!

Kay2

My limited experience on trip to Northern Italy was mixed. At one place in SML after a long day of walking, all I wanted was a place to rest and a beverage, but my husband was hungry. So, we went into a neighborhood place (maybe 3 of 15 tables occupied) and I ordered a salad and wine, my husband salad, a pizza, and wine. The waitress asked if we wanted a second plate to share some pizza, but I said no. When the cook finished the pizza, she still gathered an extra plates behind the open counter and the cook got really mad at her. Another customer told us it was customary for each to order main course and I should have ordered something besides just salad. I wasn't sure if the offense was not ordering a main course (small bill) or the thought we might be sharing. The waitress wanted the business and seemed embarrassed. I really couldn't have eaten another course that night. Next time we wanted to eat light we found one of the cafeteria type Huitres mentions in both Siena and Florence--just point to what you want or order at the counter then take to your table. More informal and flexible.