Well, the facts are: there IS both a "gentleman's club" (talk about an oxymoron!)and a bookstore there, just across 75th Street near the Christmas shop and Bruno's Italian Restaurant. The bookstore is called "Shhh Don't Tell Momma" and I've never even seen a single car parked there. But it still ain't Treasure Island, eltrain. It's St. Pete Beach you need to direct your disgust at. And them's the facts.

(And I don't care how polite and friendly Joe Redner is, he's still a slimeball in my book! If you think he's not involved in prostitution and all the goodies that go with that line of work, think again. Your gym dollars line this guys pocket OO!)

Joan, I'm afraid this is very self-serving, but I really didn't care what his other businesses were when it came to selecting the club. He put together a terrific health club--at the time I joined probably one of the two best in this area--and I was looking for the most bang for the buck. (heehee...perhaps a poor choice of words here.) Now there's an upstart that may be worth looking into, but really, what else he's involved with is probably the last thing on my mind in choosing a place to workout. First and foremost it's the level of workout, and now as well, the number of friends I've got in the club. There's are some fairly reputable folks there who must have felt similarly: the chair of the philosphy dept at USF, 3/4 of the physicians from Florida Orthopeic and their wives, channel 8 anchorwoman and weatherman, the person who bears the name of one of our 3 bridges (not Courtney Campbell :D) and his wife. Not mayor Pam though. Again, each to their own.

I do think a couple of dancers just might warm up there in the evening, and really that just keeps things interesting. They do have their own take on step classes. :) You should see the aerobics room...poles everywhere. (lol, just kidding) No, it's a good club and those are hard to come by.

OO, puke. Does this really impress you? No artists? No writers? No filmmakers? You're lifting weights with a bunch of academics, a slew of nurses, some topless dancers, Gayle Gayardo of email fame, and a couple of Gandy's? Next you'll tell me that for fun you go to the University Club for lunch and to Malio's for dinner.

I go to the Y. There I get to work out with that notable celebrity....me.

You must really be having a bad week TG. Or are you all riled up and lashing out just because someone said very mildly negative about your town?

If the shop(s) are truly so invisible, then who cares? And if they aren't so discrete, and eltrain wanted to point them out, again why do you care?

Adult bookstores/girly lounges are in every city. Some folks love em, some hate em, most of us ignore em. No one suggested closing down or picketing them.

Not worth insulting other fodorites just cause they aren't in your camp.

Midly negative?? Her description is way over the top as she's totally trashed this area.
Here's someone on the beautiful beaches of the West coast of Florida and her description of it is "dirty, cheap and ugly". Only to further imply that it's full of smut and porn. Closing my eyes with her description (if I had no concept as to what this area was like), I'm left with a vision of this area that is simply not true. Bottom line.
Fine, she didn't have a good experience. No problem, please post that information, but don't generalize that the entire area is not worth a second glance. I mean, come on, you gotta be so totally negative? Can't find anything good? There is no need to trash an area as dirty, cheap and ugly (Ugly?? how could the beach be ugly?) and leave other people reading this with
an impression of the Gulf beaches that isn't true (insert disclaimer "and I'm entitled to my opinion just like everyone else").
I'm convinced that what has happened here is that someone wasn't pleased with their room and then just couldn't open their eyes to the positives that were in front of them. But I think it then becomes irresponsible to post a description using such harsh words and leave people with a false impression of an area.
Maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't do it in a description I gave. Months before my first son was born, I treated my husband to a weekend at the Don Cesar for his birthday. It was soon after the tanker spill out in the Gulf. I splurged on a Gulf front room (back then it was a lot of money for me). Our weekend; rained almost the entire time, everytime we stepped out in the sand we got tar on our feet, and we kept having to duck away from this bellboy who worked there and had gone to highschool with my husband (he kept trying to do us favors that backfired. He tried to upgrade our room to a suite ~ we moved and it turned out to be a suite right above the front door on the street side, so we moved again. And then it was uncomfortable having to tip this high school chum, as you can imagine.) Long story short, it was an expensive disappointment. But we made the best out of it. The room was beautiful, the view breathtaking (no I never tire of that view), while the oil spill was a tragedy, it was a bit historic...see, I'm still talking about it now, we went out to some new restaurants, up in the trashy, ugly area a few miles to the north, and had a couple of really good meals, we enjoyed exploring Pass-e-grill, and we watched the storms roll in as they can be gorgeous.
We talk about that weekend to our children every time we pass the Don.
Imagine that in an area so dirty, ugly and trashy.

TG...How unbelievably rude! That was so totally uncalled for--where on earth did that come from, and why? I've read and re-read your post to see if there is any way I can give it a positive spin before I lash out myself, see if perhaps I hadn't somehow misinterpretted you, but search as I might, I couldn't come up a positive interpretation. That "Puke" in the beginning was a tone setter, for certain.

Sharpen up your reading comprehension skills, dear. My <i>point</i> was, that the club, although owned by Redner, was chosen by me, as well as others who are far from Joe's camp, by people who are <u>mainstream</u> professionals, for one reason only--it is an excellent facility with a terrific range of classes. I had no idea who the other members were before I joined. It had virtually nothing to do with being impressed with anyone (but...for clarification, it's the doctors at FL Orthopedic not nurses, lol, and as far as I know, Gandy isn't alive...you have the wrong bridge. X( )

&quot;Bless your heart&quot;--what on earth would motivate you to say something like that anyway??

OO, gosh, I feel sheepish. I thought you were bragging. But instead you were making the point that Redner's club was not sleasy but instead had a classy, or at least unsleasy, clientele.

Maybe puke was a strong word. But I was joshing with you -- and joking about myself because it would not be particularly impressive to have me in your club. From all I've seen of it, it seems to be a very normal sort of place, though Redner owns it, and that's the big rub. I try to not be judgmental about this but I really do think that Joe Redner has the best interests of nobody but himself in mind. If he really wanted to help women he would help educate these women to a position to move beyond the situation that he's created for them. Joe Redner is not someone I'd ever want to know nor would I ever want my daughter (though I don't have one) to date. But he has his rights and he successfully fights for them.

This stuff that we post can be misinterpreted, easily, as we all know. HH seems to feel, and rightfully so, that she is being attacked. I'm not sure why she's being attacked because she's got some very legitimate points and she's trying to un-do some of the damage that eltrain created. Perhaps, OO, you don't cotton to the idea that Mom &amp; Pops and non-upscale places are very trendy now. This surely flies in the face of all that you represent from the facts about yourself that you've been so bold to confide (mistake). Rest assured there are many who feel exactly as you do -- and those are the ones who HH affronts with a Florida pride and spirit that I find comforting. If you don't, that doesn't bother me. Like you say, there's room for differing opinions.

I did not say &quot;bless your hearts&quot;, for the record. And also for the record, I also think this post has run its course.

The &quot;Y&quot;?
with all the lovely, health clubs that I am noticing in Florida (and with memories of the Y in other cities) why would anyone go to a Y here ?
Just a mild question and I am still sick so try not to attack me too :)

A donor in Tampa gave a lot of money to the Y's so the ones here are unbelievable and have all the latest equipment, great staff, in really beautiful buildings, in all the neighborhoods even downtown. I don't know what you have in Jax but I think even OO will agree with me on the Ys in Tampa.

I hear you are sick, Scarlett. And I hope I didn't make you puke.

Didn't make me puke, but that did give me a bit of a shock.. one thing's for sure, you won't be finding me in a gym these days..wheezing and coughing.
I have no idea what Jax has, as far as a Y, but coming from the NE and Ca..Y's were not my first of where to go to exercise.
The more I hear about Tampa, the more I want to visit~

funny how not being able to breath creates havoc with my typing~

that should be &quot; Y's were not my first choice...&quot;

I'm not touching the main subject of this thread discussion, girls, but, Scarlett, here in Raleigh, the nearest &quot;Y&quot; is so beautiful and NEW, with amazing facilities, that a person would ask why you would go anywhere else, private or not!!!

bonnie- another reason why we made a good decision, moving South :)

... TG, it may be a good time to head over to Caddys and some poppers. It's still at sea level, not at a rarefied level. I'm certain Ys continue to be held in some esteem there. The cloest Curves is up at 107th.

... of some interest, of course, is the convenience factor. One can see that Mermaids is closely situated to the gentleman's club and the bookstore ... and only a hop, skip and jump from Kash 'n Karry, ABC and an EMS response unit over at Bay of Pines(Pasedena). There's a Catholic Church up the street for confession. Of course, there's that damned traffic on the causeway.

... I mean, you're hot to catch the first act at Mermaids, and wouldn't you know it ... somebody in a sailboat just has to get out, and the bridge goes up. Jam time!

TG,
______________________________________
&quot;Perhaps, OO, you don't cotton to the idea that Mom &amp; Pops and non-upscale places are very trendy now. This surely flies in the face of all that you represent from the facts about yourself that you've been so bold to confide (mistake). _______________________________________

I'm sorry, I can't agree with you that they are very trendy. The camp that loves the Hilton Heads, LBKs and the Naples will most likely always prefer those and remain in that camp, and the camp that prefers Mom and Pop will most likely always stay there as well. JMHO

Would you mind interpretting your last sentence above, especially as to how it relates to the first?? Your meaning is eluding me. What I <i>have</i> never cottoned to, is in-your-face aggressiveness, not a trait that I find pleasant in others. If I am anything, I am honest, and try to be fair and unbiased in making recommendations. And...I make a concerted effort to be considerate as well, especially of others feeling on this board when posting to them. It's a good way to live, I've found. Try it, you might like it, so sayeth Mikey. And that's about as rude as I'll get.....

Blacktie reminds me of how nice it is to live near the water, and have a sailboat..sigh..

Funny idea, the EMS guys are close by when some old geezer gets his heart rate going too fast LOL

Blacktie, :) Sorry 'bout that.

Yes, the beach does seem to bring out one's passions. This is a good and a bad thing. We lost a good tenant recently when the passions overwhelmed a not so good heart.

But -- as my DH says -- he died in paradise doing something he loved to do.

blacktie, those bridges are a bummer. they do serve a purpose -- to remind you that you need to take things slower, that life has its own pace, and that the beach is in charge. And as you know, THAT is easy to give in to.

Scarlett, Tampa is not for everyone. I have to admit that there is a lack of real cultural appreciation here. There is little patronage of the arts. But it is gutsy and artsy in its mix and clash of cultures. And the Ys are really great. I don't think there is a Y that is as convenient to OO.

I was in St Pete's last year and I mostly remember it being run-down and somewhat tacky. I don't remember any strip clubs, certaintly not enough to make it noticeable, yet would not want to go back.

Most Americans still have a Puritan streak when it comes to sex. &quot;Protecting the children&quot; is usually just an excuse to try to rationalize it.

... I am thankful there's no aggressivity in the exchange, ladies all.

... now, who said that area is trashy? Get those eyes examined! Tacky, well sure, but that merely helps me blend in.

... life at the beach! Ah, now what could be finer! Can you imagine being in an office, and near the end of the day, remembering, hell, I'm going home out at the beach! Night approaches, and there's the surf and that white strip.

... life is good, home is in sight, and then, another damned sailboat, jam, lol. Gulf Port excepted, naturally. :&gt;