Will the real hypocrites please stand up?
 

Certain individuals on the board have taken to posting sniping criticisms at others. One Fodorite's detailed expression of a substantive opinion today was met with an admonition to "Get a life". Others have had their writing style criticized. The snipers often defend themselves or their ilk by claiming they are entitled to express their opinion, and accusing others of being hypocrites who attempt to silence opposing viewpoints. <BR> <BR>Perhaps we need an understanding here. For purposes of the forum, we should be able to agree that anyone can express their thoughts about the SUBSTANCE of a post and respectfully disagree. On the other hand, personal insults are uncalled for and unwelcome. So if you find yourself about to post, and your post is an attack on a person rather than their ideas, you should try to stop yourself. <BR> <BR>But you all knew that, didn't you?

I must agree. I only come to this board now when I am really really bored because I know there will be someone on here trying to pick a fight. A troll I think they call it. I just replied to the Maui Heidi thread, telling the jerk to "get a life". I don't understand why this forum degenerated so quickly to criticism and sniping so quickly after I discovered it. Hippo has a great idea here. I suppose I am part of the problem instead of the solution. But gosh, if I make a typo by accident, SOMEONE will rip me to shreds for it and call me suncloudy or moron! Its a given on Fodors. Reread Hippo's post. Then read it again.

A message board takes on a life of its own. Trying to organize it is like herding cats....

I think I have a fair amount of travel knowledge to share and I was once willing to do so. However, the contentiousness of this board is just so great that I rarely post anymore. In looking through the postings, I find that many of the old, knowledgeable posters are no longer answering questions. Perhaps they are traveling on their own at this point of the year, but also perhaps they are just sick and tired of this stuff on Fodor's. This is a board on the decline. Maybe when the kids go back to school it will get better? Who knows? Who cares?

<BR>People who can't stand the heat in glass houses shouldn't throw stones at black kettles in the kitchen. Or something like that.

My observation is that any deviation from mainstream or general consensus opinion, no matter how it is expressed, is met with condemnation and indignation from the "mainstream." In most instances they seem to be the ones telling the dissenters to "get a life" or "don't post if you don't like it" or "ignore it." If you disagree with the ruling clique you are labeled "rude." They feel free to hurl names and insults but can't seem to take what they so readily dish out. Every post here about children traveling is a perfect example. Defensive parents are the first to hurl insults when anyone disagrees with them. <BR>It obviously frustrates some people so much that they had to create an entirely separate thread to complain about it, yet again. All participation here is voluntary. You can't control what is posted and you never will. Much of the frustration I see expressed is the result of people feeling powerless to control what others say here, and that's just laughable. You can't control others -- only yourself. You'll be a happier, less frustrated person once you realize and accept that fact. <BR> <BR>If this forum is causing you that much stress perhaps you should find something else to do with your time.

O.K. Jeannette/Hippo, do us all a favor please and shake off your perceived slights on this board and move on with your life. It's not worth agonizing over and all the posts here in the world won't change anything. <BR> <BR>How about just not responding to the things that are making you burst a vessel? You have no obligation to do so and it's the best way to treat posts you don't like -- do not acknowledge them in any way. Haven't you ever had a conversation with some ornery boss at some time who refused to acknowledge what you were saying and proceeded as if you hadn't said anything? Refusing to acknowledge someone gives YOU the power.

As leader of hypocrites throughout the free world may I say that I totally agree with everything said in this thread.....

i see one of the problems here---the poster who says they only come here when they are really, really bored. this is a problem----one more time---get a REAL life. then these things won't be so important to you. <BR>

I'm with Figgy!! <BR> <BR>Seems like many posters make themselves targets, then complain about criticism. (I liken this to those who dress very suggestively, then pretend offense when the opposite sex notices them.) <BR> <BR>

Oh ,Fiddlee Dee!

to michael: I have used this board in the past for travel information when I went to California and most recently the Florida Keys and Miami in June. I had every intent of posting a complete travel report when I got back. But as I used it more and more, I got really rude responses and people contradicting me and calling me names for a typing mistake. So now at this point, I only visit this site when I am really really bored because I know there will be a thread about how rude people are here, and I do have something to say about that!

I have a REAL LIFE, it's CRAP !

What do we have so far? We have "Follow" saying that the real problem is that people who are personally attacked just can't handle a viewpoint that deviates from the mainstream (whatever that is), and those people should leave. We also have "007" saying others are making themselves targets by expressing their opinions. Someone else even responded that people bothered by insults should "Get a life." <BR> <BR>None of these argument, in my humble opinion, justifies a personal attack. I think a freewheeling debate on an issue is great fun. I just don't like personal attacks. I'm really starting to think that perhaps some folks genuinely don't know the difference, and that is kind of sad. I hope some of you will give this some additional thought, because personal attacks do bother the person attacked, and they also diminish the pleasure of the board for bystanders who witness it.

<BR> <BR>Maybe all nasty posters should be confined to the Europe forum for a one-week lesson in manners. The vitriol common to this site is nonexistent there.

Wow Hippo, thanks for the helpful analytical summary of all the posts here. I don't think I could have made sense out of all it without your incisive recap. <BR> <BR>Do you get this worked up over everything in your life that bothers you? This is an INTERNET board, for God's sake. Your sanctimonious lectures and self-important criticisms of everyone else's shortcomings here are exactly the type of thing you are complaining about. Rise above it or move on. Or hey, have a coronary about it, who cares? <BR> <BR>Now let's see if my post will have the glory and honor of being recapped, analyzed and summarized by our resident scholar! hehehehehehe <BR> <BR>Yes, this IS a place for the bored, isn't it?

If you think I'd give my true name to this thread, you're nuts. Just a couple of thoughts. No matter how nasty folks get, perhaps it's best to just ignore them, and never comment. When you comment, it always generate more of the same - heat and no light. Secondly, this site is very valuable, so lets not waste time debating whether it has degenerated. It contains highly useful information - personally it has aided me countless times this past year or so. What would I do without it? So, for those who dislike what's happening, and overlook the good, go someplace else. If folks wish to be nasty, let them. Who cares - they are just jerks who want attention. Ignore and let them learn the price of being destructive - no one wishes to associate with them. And lets get back to the real reason we use this site - to get advice before we travel, and then to help others when we return. Bye for now.

Hippo, as some of these posts demonstrate, some people clearly do not know the difference between an opinion of substance and a personal attack. Nothing can be done. Sorry.

See, that's what fred was talking about. Now You Were Right is debating semantics. Sunstance? Persona Attack? Who cares!!!! Nothing can be done? You give up tooo easily, and that's where you're wrong. Just stop adding to this crappy thread, and get onto something better. No more canctimonious comments. Let it end here, PLEASE. Get a life and move on.

Hey, who deceided that you get the last word?

Mr. Ramsey, please set the record straight once and for all: did you or did you not kill JonBennet? <BR>

&lt;&lt;I must agree. I only come to this board now when I am really really bored because I know there will be someone on here trying to pick a fight. A troll I think they call it. I just replied to the Maui Heidi thread, telling the jerk to "get a life".&gt;&gt; Suncloud <BR> <BR>Does Suncloud not have the insight to see exazctly how hypocritical the above statement is? This is exactly the problem with people like Hippo, Suncloud, et al -- something is perfectly okay when they do it but not when someone else does. Hippo is not Miss Manners and feels he is perfectly polite in calling everyone else hypocrites. Whether something is a personal attack or a substantive one is frequently subjective. Thin-skinned people with poor self-image do not like anyone to disagree with them, even when there is no insult or rude words attached to it and label it an insult. I know as any time I disagree with someone, merely stating my opinion in a factual statement (ie, someone loves Disneyland, I do not and explain exactly why, etc.) people take offense because they cannot stand anyone disagreeing with them and do not like it when someone does. It doesn't bother me in the slightest that someone disagrees with me as I know myself, have confidence in my opinions, and know what they are based on and don't give a rat's ass if someone else loves Disneyland and I don't. I have never seen anyone attacked for a typo, although it's true I don't frequent this board that often. I suspect the riting style, typos, etc problems are really borderline illiteracy and I think anyone who does not care about writing correctly or know how to spell simple English words deserves to be criticized if they feel it necessary to write public statements on a public forums. This is not a personal attack either, it is an attack on illiteracy and sloppy thought processes. Hippo should learn that "get a life" IS a criticism of the substantive thought expressed in his posts, not him as a person, that's exactly what it was. Perhaps "get a life" could be said more elegantly, but it's quite clear that it IS a criticism of the ideas, although people like Hippo are not very introspective in that regard and refuse to accept the fact that someone thinks their ideas suck. Many, many times I have seen noninflammatory, factual statements of opinion labeled insults, etc, by people on this board. (Hippo may be a woman, who knows, but used the generic "he", someone thinking a woman would not choose a handle of hippo). And there are plenty of people without lives on the Europe board a la Hippo.

Certain individuals on the board have taken to posting new headings when they feel they have been dissed. One Fodorite's overwrought and over-analyzed epistle of a lofty term paper response was met with yawns. This infuriated the scholar beyond words, because she spent the majority of her day at work composing and typing the epistle, and the ingrates on this board would not even concede to her superior intellect! They actually continued to express their own views even after she posted her definitive Thesis of the World! What more could possibly be said after SHE posted? <BR> <BR>Perhaps we need an understanding here. Anyone who takes the time to compose and post lengthy theories,, particulary when you can see quite clearly that their e-mail address contains .edu, should not have the their posts commented upon in any way. If you question or comment or chuckle at the epistle, you've hurt the poster's feelings, therefore it's a personal attack, and you're a baddie, a meanie, a crabbie and just downright rude. Opposition is always rude. <BR> <BR>So if you find yourself about to post, look at e-mail address, assess the post content and ask yourself if you should really DARE to post anything about threads written by people who are obviously your intellectual superiors (the .edu should clue you in). <BR> <BR>But you already knew that, didn't you? ;)

I think my posts have been misinterpreted, possibly because this discussion is getting lengthy. I never called anyone a hypocrite -- others have, as I stated in my initial post. And I don't agree that "Get a life" is a respectful way to disagree with the substance of a post. It is an insult, plain and simple, and intended to be. <BR> <BR>That said, Diogenes, you are surely correct that some people flip out if they say they like Disney and you say you don't. And you are right that they need to tolerate a little dissent. But if someone says they like Disney, and you respond that they should get a life, well, that's quite different, IMHO. <BR> <BR>Anyway, I've enjoyed the discussion. Happy travels to you all.

The whole point of posting this "question" was so that exactly this kind of "discussion" would take place. Personally I agree with the cat herder.

The next time I'm in court and opposing counsel states his/her position, I won't bother with a well-reasoned point-by-point dismantling of his/her argument. I'll just look him/her straight in the eye and say, "Get a life!"

Michelle, as someone who has served on two different juries, I can tell you that that's probably all it would take to win your case. Not a single jury panelist, in either jury, took any notes during the trials at all. I was the only one who was able to read back to them, point-by-point, the arguments of the attorneys. They didn't have a clue as to how to begin or structure deliberations. Pretty scary. Better hope you're never on trial for anything.

Out of all of these responses I see one sentence that sums it all up" <BR> <BR>"All participation here is voluntary."

Mel, I'm sure jury procedural rules vary, but when I recently served on a jury in Cook County, Illinois, we were told we could take notes, but would not be allowed to bring them intro the jury room during deliberations. The only written things we could take were the judge's instructions as to the points of law, but we the jury were to determine what and whether facts had been established. I assume you meant to imply that most jurors are not capable of performing the job, but in my experience this was not the case.

If Get a life is a fine way to disagree with someone, would it be allright if I shorten it a bit and just say Bite Me?

Ever since reading that thread where people were trying to figure out what in the hell that topper woman is doing in posting over and over no messages on threads to get them to rise to the top of the heap I have been trying to figure out what thread it is that that tooper woman is trying to bury underneath all the posts she made rise unnaturally to the top and I think it must have been this one as it had it's last post right before the time she started sending all those other threads to the top for no reason. I don't think one person should control what posts are in the top 150 posts and so I am adding somthing to this thread just to send it up as I think that's what topper was trying to hide.

Back to the top!!!

Gary, learn to spell my "daughter's" name and maybe I'll tell you. <BR> <BR>Re: Talk on Europe board being more civil. Those are probably Americans trying to put up a nice front. No one in Europe, in my vast experiences are NICE. Neither are many Americans judging by this board, but at least they put up a good facade.

....oh, and here we have a man suspected of murdering his daughter telling us about civility and decorum?