Thanks. That's the elderly one on the beach at Jekyll. That's her "posing" for the camera (she always looks away).
She loves to travel.

The new pup looks directly at the camera and hams it up :-)

I don't get the antipathy towards someone laying out why they think Orlando isn't the greatest place for a business meeting. As Mike points out, this is a travel website and presumably opinions regarding what makes a destination good for business travel would seem to be fair game. No surprise probably that I have the same feeling about Orlando as a business destination. Would I rather have a job that meets in Orlando than no job? Um, yes, but we are discussing travel destinations here, not the job market.

There are many cities in which, at the end of the day, you are not required to get in a car and drive anywhere. Cities in which there is an interesting, vibrant downtown. Orlando can be great fun if you are going there to take the family to Disney World, but it is not a really interesting city IMHO.

What Suki said.

Wow. I had no idea I would set this in motion. In my defense I would like to add just a couple of points, realizing that I am painting a target on my chest for those Orlando defenders.

First, I was at a professional conference and paid my own way. I own my own company and am darned glad to have any business at all in the economy. (Duh: that's why I went to this meeting!) So those of you who think I should get "fired" for not appreciating the chance to go to a meeting can relax. I have a right to let other travelers know what it is like to be held hostage at a poor hotel with bad food. (I didn't even mention how lousy the concierge was.)

Second, I did rent a car online, reserved well before the trip, so that I could visit a friend's home (where I had a fabulous meal, btw.) But the system of freeways, with constant tollbooths, was a huge hassle. I was lucky to have a navigator or I might not have made it, even with my MapQuest directions and phone to guide me. At the end of the evening, I turned the car back in at the hotel. A couple of days later, when I discovered for the first time that it would cost $80 ($40 each way) to go to another location for a decent meal, I tried to rent another car. None was available, and I was told that even if it had been, it would have been considerably more than the original rental. So I sucked up the $80 fare to go eat a decent meal with a client at the Ritz Carlton.

Finally, I would like to say that the Ritz seems like a lovely property and the meal was amazing. We were even able to get the New York Times. But there is still NOTHING TO DO there! We actually wound up looking at the art in the halls just to have a little break before returning to the Dolphin. Since I don't play golf and I didn't want a massage, after a walk around the grounds and the hotel, we just gave up and went back.

Sure, I would have liked to see a museum or some local shops, eat at another good restaurant, or even go to a movie but at $80 per round trip for transportation, I was trapped. And it was quite cold the whole time, so I didn't even get to the pool.

Ok. Ready, aim, FIRE!

"Ok. Ready, aim, FIRE!"

No target practice.

You didn't like the Ritz. You didn't like the Dolphin.

We had people belly-aching about being at the Breakers when they wished they were the group at the Four Seasons and vice versa. We had a male rep who hated meetings at Sanibel, so we made them "girls only, toes in the sand" meetings. We had people that hated being at Celebration because it was so "manufactured". We had people that hated being at beachfront locations on the most beautiful sugar white sand in the Panhandle. We had people that complained about private cruises along the Intercoastal in Fort Lauderdale. We had people that complained about...

Which is my point. No matter WHERE the business meeting might be, SOMEbody is going to complain.

Complain away. People vent on here all the time. And, people offer their opinions all the time. I worked for some companies that made co-workers from opposite ends of the country room together at meetings. The locations wer fabulous, but most of us would rather be at a Hampton Inn somewhere than share a room. My January meetings were at a Hyatt in very walkable city and a Hyatt Place at an airport location.

Both were great BUSINESS meetings. I stand firm in these thoughts -

1) If you are traveling somewhere to a business meeting anywhere, count yourself lucky.
2) No matter where that business meeting will be held, someone will complain.

"If you are traveling somewhere to a business meeting anywhere, count yourself lucky."

I assume you are going to go into the leisure travel threads and, the moment someone raises a concern, say "If you are traveling somewhere for leisure, count yourself lucky."

People are lucky to travel. That doesn't mean there aren't complaints and concerns. This is a travel site after all. It can't be all discussion of the Olympics and dogs and funny cat pictures.

Happy circling :-)

"Happy circling"

You should count yourself lucky you have the time to worry about these discussions. :)

Don't get dizzy now :-D

We may fight, we may differ - we are one dysfunctional Fodors family. :) However, we all love to travel so that is what binds us in appreciation.

In an effort to be bipartisan, this is what I believe:

1) Orlando is not New York or _______. Don't expect it to be.

2) The Gaylord Palms is a lousy venue for an out-of-town visitor without a car. You really are trapped and held captive there with no place to go. There is <u>nothing</u> around.

3) If you stay in an I-Drive hotel, there are decent restaurants within walking distance. If you want to extend your range, there is the I-Drive Trolley. No cars are necessary.
http://www.orlando-internationaldriv...ley/index.html

3) Disney is another story. They want you to remain on property the entire duration of your stay. However, there are some very good restaurants there (ask us) or you can share a cab to restaurant row on Sand Lake Road for even more restaurant choices. Again, ask us!

4) Starrs is right. "No matter WHERE the business meeting might be, somebody is going to complain."

_______________________________________________
Vic's travels: http://my.flightmemory.com/vogilvie

Jill,

"Or you could have gotten a glimpse of Tiger Woods getting his coffee at the Starbucks in my town. HAHA."

Hey Fodors' sister - dish! ;-) Is he back in town?

Tiger Woods is not back in town, but I did spot Elin at Walgreens. I think he is in sex rehab in Mississippi (how about a convention there, fellas? HAHA)

<<There are many cities in which, at the end of the day, you are not required to get in a car and drive anywhere. Cities in which there is an interesting, vibrant downtown. Orlando can be great fun if you are going there to take the family to Disney World, but it is not a really interesting city IMHO.>>

Well, yeah, but, as stated before, those cities don't necessarily have the convention facilities and hotel rooms available. And even if they do those convention facilities might not be in a great location--e.g., the Gaylord property at National Harbor south of DC.

<<A couple of days later, when I discovered for the first time that it would cost $80 ($40 each way) to go to another location for a decent meal, I tried to rent another car.>>

I really don't get this idea that you can't get a decent meal on Disney property and just HAD to go to the Ritz. You were an easy walk from Don Shula Steakhouse, Todd English's Bluezoo, the Flying Fish Cafe and even Cat Cora's new restaurant. You were a short free bus ride away from two sit-down Wolfgang Puck restaurants, among others, and also free Disney transport or a short cab ride away from Victoria and Albert's (Mobil 4-star), California Grill, Artist Pointe and Jiko. Maybe none of these are your style but they certainly are more than adequate for business entertaining.

And I don't understand the whining about having to rent a car. I'd be renting for Scottsdale, LA, Fort Lauderdale, etc. as well. It may not be your preference, but it's certainly not some special problem with Orlando.

I've had to travel to Orlando many, many times. Conferences and vacations. With kids, college students and adults. I've stayed everywhere you can think of. Rented cars, used taxis, and the bus. I think I have dined at every place imaginable. I have spent thousands at DW and Universal. I've been subject to all kinds of weather.

I can honestly say (and without bias) that I would slit my wrists before I went back to Orlando.

Dutch, you are too funny.

I could write your post, except that we are going to Orlando this spring. We go to visit my mother-in-law every other year (on the Gulf coast) for spring break, and every other trip we spend a few days in Orlando. We have found that two nights is all that we can handle. This trip, we are going to visit MGM Studios. Our boys have never been there -- we have concentrated on universal our past two trips. My younger son is looking forward to visiting the Vans skate Park. (My husband and I just can't wait. We are still trying to forget staying at the Nickelodean Suites, lol.)

We never fly into Orlando anymore. The last time we did, it took us over 90 minutes to get our rental car from Alamo. My sister-in-law reported a similar experience when they went. We now fly into Tampa. Airfares are typically a bit cheaper, and the airport is more convenient for our return trip (since we spend the end of our trip in Sarasota). Tampa has become one of my favorite airports. It is very convenient to maneuver. Once we land, we get our luggage and only have to walk right across the street to get our rental car. It really is one of the most pleasant airports that we have visited domestically.

Re: thankful you have a job thing.

On this site, every time I ask a travel question, I wouldn't want to be told that I should be thankful we can travel because we still have jobs.

Because I really am well aware of that.

<i>And I don't understand the whining about having to rent a car. I'd be renting for Scottsdale, LA, Fort Lauderdale, etc. as well. It may not be your preference, but it's certainly not some special problem with Orlando.</i>

In threads of why people don't going to Scottsdale and Ft. Lauderdale (two places I don't like going for business either, but fortunately can usually avoid), we'd have the same complaint. And, as I said, some employers won't reimburse for car rentals, which always makes car rentals a problem on business trips.

I have to ask for special approval before renting a car if I'm attending a conference.

<<I can honestly say (and without bias) that I would slit my wrists before I went back to Orlando.>>

Dutch! And here I was going to suggest a GTG here. [( Fine, it'll be JillDavis, Orlando Vic and me then. :D

and we'll supply the <b>razor blades!</b>

_______________________________________________
Vic's travels: http://my.flightmemory.com/vogilvie

We've been to Orlando 5x since 2000. I'm far from being a kid, and I loved all the trips. But, living in SE KS (boring), I jump at the chance to go anywhere, even Orlando.

1st time, 2000 - Rural Elec. Coop conference for DH (all expenses paid except my airfare). Stayed at Holiday Inn on N. I-Drive, used the trolley to get around. While DH was in meetings, I walked & shopped along I-Drive. Worst part -- it was spring break, so a little congested at times. After a long day of meetings & dinner, we were both ready to relax at the hotel. Weather was cool, but very pleasant & certainly better than what we were having in KS.

2nd time, 2001 - We went to Ft. Lauderdale for a week & decided to drive to Orlando for the flight home b/c it's so much cheaper for us to fly in/out of Orlando from Wichita, Tulsa or KC. I was able to get us free rooms through our timeshare & stayed at the Wyndham Resort on I-Drive. Had a relaxing 3 days there, went to Sea World. Weather was perfect.

3rd time, 2005 - Another REC conference. Lodging: Hilton inside the Disney Complex, which was very nice, 1 block from Downtown Disney, so I wandered around there during the days while he had meetings & spent time by the pool. When the hotel is free... it's great!! Weather cool, but sunny. Used the bus to get around or rode with other conference attendees who rented cars when we did go out.

4th time, 2006.. exchanged time share for the Bonnet Creek Wyndham Resort inside Disney. took my son, wife, Payton and my nephew, his wife & 2 boys & spent 4 days at Disney World, then drove to Ft. Myers Beach for a wedding. This is my favorite trip, Payton was 2 1/2 & I was so glad to get to go on his first trip to Disney. It was the end of June & very hot, but hot weather on vacation is better than hot weather at home anytime.

5th time, 2007 -- Time share promotion, stayed at Blue-Green Fountains Resort, which was really nice. We spent the only sunny morning at Universal Studios, the rest of the time it was cloudy & cold, we stayed in most of the time, but did get out to eat each night. We rented a car. It was mid-December & they had the coldest temperatures in all of 2007 while we were there, down to 30 degrees one night & snow. Still it was good to get away.

Starrs has it almost right... No matter WHERE the meetings are, someone will complain.... but not me!!! I love travel and would go to Orlando every year if I could. DH is no longer on the Rural Elec. Coop board, so our "expenses paid" trips have come to an end and I sure miss them. Life is too short to complain and be negative... I travel where I can & when I can and enjoy being there!!!

And, if there is ever a GTG in Orlando, I will seriously consider going, if it fits into my schedule!

I'm guessing if you can't have fun with Mickey then you can't have fun anywhere ;)

Regarding renting cars in Orlando, I think it is a well-known fact that Alamo is run by Satan's spawn at that airport. I once landed at 11PM,and was still waiting in line at Alamo at 2AM! I only got a car then because I jumped into their club line and when the woman said "Your husband belongs to our club, right?" I replied "yes." Anyway it is much, much easier to rent from an agency that has cars right on site. I just walk across to the garage and get in a car now, usually at Avis.

To the other Floridians, as a local Floridian, I might suggest you consider the following. Since a large part of our economy depends on tourism, be it for leisure or business, rather than dissing those who have complaints, wouldn't it behoove us to look into and address some of these issues they bring up. Perhaps that way we could engender repeat satisfied business. I'm not in any tourism business, just concerned about our economy. Perhaps a better, more extensive public transportation system of trollies and the like that could take visitors to some of the interesting locations you mentioned, as well as to get people to and from the airport. Other cities have done it. Florida has had some unfortunate battles over high speed and commuter rail, so perhaps no one has the will for it here. Also, perhaps planning by local businesses or chambers of commerce to emphasize, promote, entertainment options for adults. Do we really want our visitors to spend all their time at Disney, or would we like them to spread the wealth around the community. Better funding for the arts would also help. It's really a shame Orlando let its opera go defunct. Not everyone enjoys Disney tunes. Disney is fine for families and some adults, but I brought visitors from out of town to Epcot and they were mildly interested but suggested that the entry price was rather steep for a rather high priced, chance to pay more to shop and eat. Perhaps we should be developing alternative entertainments to attract a different kind of visitor. Many families have tight budgets these days. It would be a shame not to promote more convention business by not addressing their concerns. Also, what is it with all the tolls around here? If anybody wants to visit someone or something away from Orlando they really have to fork out a lot in tolls. We could do some better planning here, and maybe do some focus groups on how we could improve the business travelers' experience here rather than dissing them.

Interesting:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12498996/

http://answers.google.com/answers/th...id/517688.html

http://www.meetingsource.com/convention_centers.htm

Suki, one option is to take a taxi from the airport and then pick up a car the next day at a local (usually hotel) location. You get "home" faster, don't have to wait in lines when you are tired and save $$$ on the airport fees.

That may not work for everyone, but may work for some. Oftentimes, I didn't need a car for the entire stay, so just rented it for the couple of days I needed it - again from a hotel rental desk rather than the airport.

If you DO rent a car, fill it up before you head to the airport. The gas stations near the airport do rip you off.

Neo darling, you know I love you, but I think maybe you are debating here just because you love to debate (yes, I know you led teams). So I know you can debate any point of view, whether you believe it or not, and whether it is truly correct or not.

Just because tons of conventions are held in a place doesn't mean the attendees actually enjoy the place. They may enjoy the meeting, without enjoy the locale. So whether or not it is on the top of those lists in terms of numbers of conventions and amount of convention space is immaterial to me.

I know what my personal experiences are, I can't speak for anyone else. And not matter how I feel, I am quite sure I will be attending more conventions there in Orlando. The place isn't the draw for me when I go to conferences or conventions anyway. The conference or convention is the draw.

Of course, I could be wrong. Maybe you really do believe that those of us who have expressed that we don't enjoy Orlando for conferences are fibbers or idiots. I hope not, because I would rather you not think I am a fibber or idiot, as I really don't thing I am either.

That's a good tip in general, starrs. I stay with family over on the east coast though so it doesn't work for me. However since I switched to Avis at Orlando, I zip in and out.

Not only do I love to debate, but I love to point out meaningless comments that really don't logically support what they are supposedly saying. Isn't that what this site is all about? Was your comment about loving debate supposed to be an insult or something? What's wrong with debating a topic that was brought up for debate? I'm confused.

"We need more activities" (than Orlando?), "it was only 55 degrees and rainy in February in Orlando", and "there are no good restaurants near there" or citing one bad restaurant choice and pretending there must be no good ones (which has clearly been disproven here) are just a few examples that really don't make any sense if people are seriously trying to give reasons why Orlando is a bad choice for business. And to mention other traffic laden cities as an alternative because Orlando has such bad traffic, really makes no sense at all. It seems people are floundering for excuses why they don't like the choice of Orlando, yet they fail to back up those excuses or offer logical alternatives without those same drawbacks.

To be perfectly blunt, I have a strong feeling the real excuse that seems unspoken is "I detest anything that has Disney attached, so there is no way I could ever be happy in Orlando."

Oh no, it absolutely was not meant to be an insult! I rather enjoy most of your debating posts. Please do not think I was trying to insult you. A. I simply wouldn't do it, not my style. B. Even if it was my style I am not very good at insults.

I must point out that the things in the second paragraph above were no points given by me.

Again, I can only say my personal experiences, and I can tell you that no hidden despising of things Disney is going on with me. As I said in my posts, I would probably enjoy vacationing there, they have golf after all. I have not enjoyed conferences there. In the experiences I have had I have often been in isolated locations, taxi fares were very high, if you did rent a car I find Orlando one of the most difficult places to drive (and I have driven in some very difficult places). I don't HATE Orlando. I don't like going to business conferences there.

I also would prefer not to be in Orlando for a confernece.
In fact, i would prefer to be in Boston, Chicago,even Philly etc..even in the cold winter.
My company has had annual meetings at venues all over and the Gaylord property in Orlando was dreadful -
San Antonio is easy to fly to and has great hotels near the convention and offer entertainment w/o a car - we have had several there.
I am with Dutch on this one!!

321go - How about Tampa? Can we have a GTG there instead?

How about 321go's house? Preferably the night of a launch :-)

Ok, so 55 degrees and rainy is bad weather for February, yet people here want a conference in Boston/Chicago/Philly in February? So what's the temperature in those cities in February? I thought so, makes no sense whatsoever.

Let me put it to you this way. How many people would enjoy a convention in Chicago/Boston/Philly in February? I can tell you that I would absolutely dread having to be in those cities in February. I've been sent to Chicago in March and they had over 18 inches of snow and I was stuck there two weeks, I was itching to get back after day 2. A convention there in February would seem like punishment. At least if you're going to send me on a convention, give me a destination where I don't have to wear 20 layers to go outside.

I've been to Orlando probably at least a dozen or more times on business (never pleasure). I've never had a bad time, always had great food, the weather was always great, and I was never lacking in activities. One time I went over to Cape Canaveral on the weekend. Another time on the weekend I went to Clearwater and kicked back on the beach. Yet another time I went diving at a natural springs just north of Orlando. And yes, I've been to the theme parks many times, and yes, I had fun. One time, my boss even told me to treat myself on the company dime to a day at WDW as a reward for good work. You can't beat that!

I mean, come on, how can anyone think that Dallas could offer a better convention experience than Orlando? What's there to do in Dallas (and I'm in TX so I can say that). I mean, San Antonio is a reasonable convention destination, but there's only so many times you can walk down the Riverwalk in the course of the week before you tire of it.

Now Vegas or New Orleans, now you're talking. Those are great destinations with probably more to do than Orlando. Or Chicago/NYC/Boston/Philly during the April to October season.

Like I said before, if you can't have fun with Mickey, you really don't know how to have fun :)

bkluvsnola, I think your last sentence really summed it up. I'm convinced that most of the people "whining" about how horrible Orlando is, simply equate Orlando with Disney, they hate everything Disney or Disneyesque, and so they can't have a good time anywhere near a place "run" by Disney. It really is that simple. There are some who have a similar reaction to the very word, Las Vegas, which says "tacky" to them and they will complain about any event there.

I've not said here that Orlando is the best place to have a business event, but come on, the excuses being given are just so totally lame! If a business traveler can't find any "good food" in the area, or doesn't know how to rent a car with a confirmed internet price, he probably should just give up traveling!

And yes, Starrs really had it right. People will complain, no matter what, and since Orlando is clearly one of the top three convention spots in the nation, it logically will gather a high percentage of those complainers.

<<How about 321go's house? Preferably the night of a launch>>

Heck yes, come on down! Dutch, you too. :D

Dblm, those are all interesting points, but as a Floridian I'm sure you understand the current political climate in this state which consists of one refrain: cut taxes. Example: why do we have toll roads? Because voters didn't want tax money spent on local roads. All of the things you're talking about cost money. Our state is in terrible financial shape and the political reality is that those things will not happen now or in the near future.

<i>If a business traveler can't find any "good food" in the area, or doesn't know how to rent a car with a confirmed internet price, he probably should just give up traveling</i>

You've completely missed the point. Congratulations.

"Like I said before, if you can't have fun with Mickey, you really don't know how to have fun."

Do you really believe that? I've been to sales meetings in Orlando about 4 times. They're fine. Nothing exciting, nothing terrible, but we always have a tightly scheduled day and activities so there's really not any down time.

I would never choose to go to Orlando myself. Not a Disney fan and not into theme parks. If I'm with friends I can enjoy myself just about anywhere but Orlando is near last on my list for vacation destinations. Doesn't mean there's anything wrong with me, or that I can't have fun.

And, as for food, I'm sure there are some decent restaurants in the greater Orlando area, but I think overpriced, mediocre chain restaurants prevail. I've never seen so many chain restaurants in one place.

Lastly, I have no idea why people on this board aren't allowed to have differing opinions. It's obnoxious.

As the saying goes, you're entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts. I have no problem with folks saying they'd rather be in a cosmopolitan city environment. The idea that someone staying at the Dolphin had to deal with an $80 cab ride to get a decent meal is just silly.

<<You've completely missed the point. Congratulations.

That's what happens when you cherry-pick from people's posts and focus on isolated points.

I agree with wyatt. Believe me, I think a LOT of things are fun. Being with "the Mouse" is not up there.