Why do New Yorkers put up with rude waiters?
 

In planning my trip to New York, I've run across many restaurant reviews both in guide books and on the net that talk about how popular a restaurant is, how great the food is, etc., but note that the waiters are rude, gruff, impatient.... With the hundreds of places to choose from in NYC, why pay good money to be treated badly? Is it a badge of honor to put up with this in New York?

I have three theories on this matter about New York waiters. <BR>1. New Yorkers don't know they are rude because over the years they have become inured. <BR>2. If New Yorkers left restaurants because the waiters are rude, they would soon run out of places to eat. <BR>3. Rude behavior is the norm; which means deviations on either side. Finding abnormal behavior can result in experiencing something worse than rude. <BR>

What is the appropriate, most effective response to an unfriendly or condescending New York waiter? Do you give as good as you're getting? Ignore it? What works so that you can still enjoy your meal and not feel like a doormat?

This is strange. In all of the years that we have visited NYC we have never been treated rudely by a waiter. However they are mostly of the old time standard. They are professional and expect to be treated as such. This is the case in many restaurants in San Francisco. They expect people to have food knowledge and know how to order food properly.

As a New Yorker, I'll have to say that our waiters are no ruder than those in other cities. Sure, we have some bad ones, but those in the restaurants we go to are good. And that's one of the reasons we keep going back! Just another of the erroneous and/or exaggerated NYC stereotypes.

Jazz, a waiter in New York City is an individual trying to make an honest living on tips in one of the world's most expensive cities. A good waiter can take one look at the person or people sitting at a table and tell, within a dollar, how much they intend to spend and what size tip will be left at the end of the evening. <BR> <BR>At the top of the pecking order will be three or four businessmen in suits and ties. They are on expense accounts; they will order drinks and wine, and the tip will almost certainly be 20% on the total bill. They will never experience a "rude" waiter because, to a waiter, they are what pays the rent. <BR> <BR>At the bottom of the pecking order is the single diner or young couple dressed informally whom the waiter has never seen before in the restaurant. The waiter knows these people will be conscious of price, they will order no "extras" and the tip will be exactly 15%. Worse, these people, and especially the young tourists, are likely to study the menu and the wine list for an inordinately long time. Hence, the waiter is likely to be rude because, to him or her (but usually a him), these people are taking up space that could be occupied by those businessmen on an expense account. <BR> <BR>Does the waiter have a right to be rude? Absolutely not. But the waiter is practicing economics: deferential treatment to those who will spend $400 and leave an $80 tip; brusque treatment to the single diner whose bill may not reach $35 and who will scrupulously trip 15% on the pre-tax portion of the bill. <BR> <BR>In the parlance of the industry, the waiter's goal is to "turn the deuce" (free up a table for two) in order to fill it with people who are more likely to conribute toward the rent.

Neal, <BR> <BR>But looks can be deceiving... <BR> <BR>My boyfriend and I recently visited Savannah for a dental hygiene symposium (I'm the hygienist). We went to a restaurant recommended by our hotel (The Marriott). <BR>We were in jeans because we just arrived in town. <BR>The waiter was unattentive and slightly rude (and dare I say condecending?) until we ordered a $50 bottle of wine. His attitude got a little better at that point. Then we each ordered $30 dinners. Then his attitude really improved. When we also ordered dessert he actually thanked us for coming in. <BR>We didn't look like big spenders or business people. Some of the wealthiest people I know "dress down" when going out. <BR>You never know who really has the money. <BR>Kittie

Neal: <BR> <BR>All I can say is that you obviously have not spent much time in California. A person's appearance is in no way indicative of how generous a tipper they are. I think that you have stereotyped folks a little more than they deserve.

Cal, my notes above were in response to the very specific question, "why do New Yorkers put up with rude waiters," and my response was also very specific to that city. People dress very differently from city to city. Chinos and a sweatshirt may not draw a second glance in California. If you showed up in such attire at the Ritz Carlton in Boston, you would not be seated, regardless of how many founders shares of dot.com you owned. It's not a matter of stereotyping diners, rather, it's a matter of "different cities - different custom." <BR> <BR>In New York, what you wear out to dinner says a great deal about you, and a waiter can and does form a judgement very quickly (I am not nor have I ever been a waiter). Four guys in business suits = 20% tip on a very large check, probably including $100-200 in drinks and wine. Twentyish guy and girl in a New York restaurant in casual dress = 15% on the pre-tax part of a smallish check. <BR> <BR>Kitty, thank you for the corollary, which is equally applicable to Savannah as to New York: the waiter warms up with the size of the bill. Hope it was a great bottle of wine.

Cause we're hungry

Native: what a wonderfully succinct answer! <BR> <BR>Neal: Thank you, and yes, it was a wonderful bottle of wine. I truly missed the main point, though. The question asked about waiters in New York City, not any other city. With your explanation about how New Yorkers dress to go out, I guess that waiters may be able to spot 'the good ones'. On the other hand, they may get fooled a few times, too. <BR>Kittie

In answer to the original question, as far as I know, "we" don't. <BR>People in general have their individual tolerances for certain behaviors in others; what annoys me may or may not annoy you. There a few NYC institutions that are sort of famous for gruff waiters, places like Peter Luger's steak house and the Carnegie Deli, but these unique places are exceptions. In general I don't put up with rude or inept service, and I don't know anyone who does, at least not more than once. On the other hand, except for the special places mentioned above, <BR>I have lower service expectations in my corner coffee shop than I do in a place where I'm spending serious money.

I am from California and my spouse from NJ. The first time we went to the East Coast shortly after we were married we parked at the Port Authority. We got into an elevator which pomptly stopped in-between floors and bacame stuck. After a few minutes, we yelled "Help...get us out of here". A response from the street was F--- You!!! <BR> <BR>My husband said "Ah! I'm home!" <BR> <BR>Shortly later we were freed. The point is that my husband EXPECTED the barb having grown up on the New Jersey Shore. Growing up in California, where waiters arrive at your table in shorts and introduce themselves, I thought the remark was rude, not funny. <BR> <BR>The reason they/we put up with rude waiters? They're funny. Fine restaurants don't come with funny waiters, but anticipate them at The Carnigie Deli or tourist spots where you're sized up. I guarantee you, when we arrive looking like a Sicilian Wedding, "da boyz aint woo-d." -Cher

In response to question, how to respond -- should we give as good as we get? <BR> <BR>See answer in parallel post re:why do NY'rs put up with it: they know that waiters handle their food. They know that waiters know how to be vindictive in truly revolting ways, behind the kitchen doors. Nuff said.