sofun1

Currently my husband & I (in our mid-30's) live in Phoenix, and wanting to relocate to somewhere friendlier, greener, and driveable to my hometown of St. Louis. It's taken about a year to narrow it down to Austin, Chapel Hill, & St. Louis (where my family is, but my husband doesn't see all the good points about it.) What good points would you say about these towns (especially STL!) ?

ChristieP

What kind of job would you be looking for? The economy in Austin is slowly recovering since there were many layoffs in the high-tech fields. If you would need an income to sustain yourself, you could be looking for a while.

djdave

Being a former St. Louisan (now living in Georgia), I'm curious as to why your husband doesn't seem to care for St. Louis.

I do not miss the winters there, but I would cite as plusses the riverfront, Forest Park (and the Zoo), U. City, the Botanical Garden, the Hill, friendliness of its citizens, etc. Haven't been to Austin or Chapel Hill, although nearby Raleigh is nice and N.C. is a beautiful state overall.

MikeT

It's all really a question of what you want. Austin and Chapel Hill are both "cool" college-type towns with lots of smart people and hip things to do. Neither, however, are big cities and because they are the coolest places around, there really isn't anywhere else to go to get a variety of things to do.

St. Louis, OTOH, is a pleasant "big city" with a lot more to do, but decidedly less "cool" and "hip." Its a little backwards and conventional, but there are "hip" places to live as long as you are willing to live in or near the city.

uuhhhh

"What good points would you say about these towns (especially STL!)?"

the cardinals, except maybe for their bullpen.......

Catmomma

I've never been to St. Louis or Chapel Hill.

I live in Austin and love it. Here is why:

1. Tons of great parks with trails, hills, flowers, waterfalls, swimming, caves
2. Tons of watersports recreation---clear blue lakes, rivers, & springs for swimming, canoeing, skiing, boating, etc.
3. Tons of groups to join for sports or other activities
4. live music capital of the world
5. tons of great bars & restaurants
6. friendly people
7. liberal politics---but plenty of the other point of view to keep the conversation going
8. highly educated population
9. colorful characters
10. cultural and ethnic diversity
11. socieconomic diversity
12. great movie theaters like Alamo drafthouse where you can have dinner and eat
13. theatre, opera, ballet, museums
14. cool art scene
15. capital of Texas
16. big beautiful green hills year round
17. warm weather
18. great flora-cactus, flowering shrubs and trees, wildflowers
19. great fauna-raccoons, deer, possums, foxes
20. not too big and not too small
21. lots of young people
22. high tech town
23. traffic not too bad for big city
24. 24 hour businesses

lghorse

hands'down, Chapel Hill! Lived in St. Louis and graduated from Washington University undergraduate & graduate school years ago. Loved the area but it is nothing like North Carolina. Chapel Hill is a great university town with UNC and Duke; near research Triangle park. You can easily travel to the Blue Ridge Mts or opposite to the Beaches. Have now lived here for 11 years and would never move. Quaint town, friendly, jobs are available, great hospitals due to universities & research; cultural events but without the feeling of a large city. Have also lived in Ft. Huachuca, AZ for a short period and don't ever want to go back to "rock yards."

Clifton

I'm not sure what attracts your husbands interest, but I'll speak to St. Louis, having grown up there as well.

- The only one on your list with multiple major league sports teams.
- Forest Park is right in the city and is bigger that NY's Central Park
- Zoo, Science Center, Symphony, Botanical (Shaws) Garden: all ranked in the top 5 in the US, for what they are. The Japanese Garden within Shaws Garden was referred to in an artical I saw the other day as "The most important Japanese gardens outside of Japan"
- Zoo, Science Center, Art Museum, History Museum: all free
- Several large Uni's. In a bigger city though, the student population is diluted and not so noticeable.
- Job market potential. Many large corporations are HQ'd there.
- The Hill. Italian!
- The wine country.
- The Ozarks (and I don't mean Branson). Beautiful country, canoe trips, lakes.
- Actually have (some) light rail in place now. It's nice.
- Laclede's Landing, Soulard, Washington Ave, Central West End: places to wine and dine
- Some of the top healthcare facilities anywhere.
- People are genuine. Nothing fake about people. They can be a little reserved, but nice. Never phony though and always polite. People still wave others out of side streets during traffic.
- Diversity of housing options, especially being on a state line.
- Sledding on Art Hill
- Ted Drewes Ice Cream
- The annual Blessing Of The Fleet at Portage Des Souix
- Busch Wildlife Area
- Grants Farm
- Cahokia Mounds - The only UNESCO Heritage Site in the midwest and one of only a few in the US.
- It produced you!

Enjoy, wherever you all end up.

sofun1

Thanks all and Clifton! you hit on the STL highlights I agree with.
When returning home to St. Louis, it always seems too short and we usually make time only to visit with family - which is part of the reason I think my husband doesn't seem to care for it as much as other two places. We've not spent much time "playing" and he might fear too much of an emphasis on family if he moved there (an unfortunate assumption but understandable given our limited activities and time when visiting.) Not to mention his interest in college sports (virtually none there, but enough in Ch.Hill & Austin), his love for major snow skiing (closer proximity in Aust & Ch.Hill), weather (his favorite city overall is San Francisco which is further from my family!), and the whole "hip" aspect. Though I think many parts of STL are just as hip as Chapel Hill area. And lastly, the potential job scene. He's soon-to-be an ex-lawyer looking for a small company or start-up business he can help.

Going to Chapel Hill and Carrboro area this weekend and meet with a Realtor to really see the area and get a better picture of it all. Will likely do that for Austin and St. Louis - so any more ideas, suggestions, pointers, or whatever is appreciated! I'll have my husband read this thread on our way to Ch. Hill......

fritzi

I'd have to vote for Chapel Hill! The whole state of NC is beautiful. You have the outer banks and beaches on one end and the Blue Ridge mountains on the other. Whatever you want to do is only a short drive.

herrz

Well, I wrote this really long post about St. Louis, and had to restart... So, I'll try again...

I moved to St. Louis in the middle of high school. (I am now in my mid-20s.) I always swore that I would move back to where I grew up (Colorado), but I'm still here... This is why I think I am...

The postings above definitely mention some of the tangible offerings of the city. However, if you're moving to be closer to family, nothing beats having that support 15 minutes away rather than 15 hours away. My siblings have almost all migrated back to St. Louis (5 of us, and only 1 out of town - in Memphis). I can see my nieces, my siblings, and my parents anytime I want, which is great to have. My nieces really know me, and I don't miss any of the milestones. I get to have lunch with my brother and sister (who also work downtown) at least once a week. I think St. Louis really supports this type of lifestyle. My parents pushed for us to move back here because they grew up here, and their families are here. I thought it was odd when I moved here in high school and people talked about hanging out with their cousins on the weekend. But that is what St. Louis is about - family. I'm sure that Chapel Hill and Austin are beautiful places - I've heard as much - but they obviously don't offer you family. Sure, you'd be closer, but that is still quite a lengthy drive.

If you are thinking about starting a family with your husband, I don't think you can replace that proximity to family - it offers unparallel support and memories.

In addition, a few things that are "in the news" about the city lately... Washington Avenue (close to Locust) is closing to pedestrian traffic. They have monthly free concerts, including two nationally-recognized bands (TMBG this month), in summer. Lots of new clubs and restaurants are opening in that area. In addition, I work for the company that is planning the new ballpark for downtown, and right now, plans look good. It includes a ballpark village, which includes housing, office space and retail space.

St. Louis also has a great central location - 5 hours to Chicago, 4 to KC, 5 to Memphis, 5 to South Bend (if your husband likes college sports, he must like ND!)... They make great weekend trips.

At the end, I think any place will be what you make of it. I've heard people complain that there is nothing to do in big cities that live there.

My only other suggestion for consideration would be Memphis... It's got some cool "city" things to do, like Beale Street and Mud Island, but housing is less expensive than St. Louis, and it's a very friendly city. Only 5 hours from St. Louis, as I mentioned previously.

Good luck with the move!!

Clifton

Wow, interesting followup! I live in Memphis now, due to work.

abmay

i moved to st. louis 6 years ago and love it. was disappointed in the downtown area when i moved but it has come so very far. empty warehouses now house westin, sheraton, etc and the areas around washington avenue and slu really turning around. only thing i ever get frustrated with is the traffic but you are going to have that anywhere. people much friendlier than expected and so much to offer.

TXStone

I went to college in Austin, and only left b/c I got a job in Houston. I still love Austin. Several things to add about why it's a great city -
- it's 1 1/2 hours drive to San Antonio, 2 1/2 hours drive to Houston, 2-3 hours to Dallas (or something like that, I haven't made that drive in a while). So, even though Austin is a medium sized town, three of the largest cities in the US are within close proximity.
- great college sports at UT (top 10 football, final four men's and women's basketball, college world series men's and women's baseball); close enough to drive to San Antonio Spurs games

That being said, I have friends in all three places, and all have good things to say!

msmiller

Well, I can only weigh in on the Chapel Hill side of things, although I've visited Austin and St. Louis.

It's a GREAT place if a college town doesn't scare you. Anymore, however, unless you need to go to Franklin St. downtown, the interaction with UNC is not as prevalent as it used to be.

Excellent schools, hospitals (both UNC and Duke), restaurants, etc. Between UNC, Duke, and the theater/concert world in Raleigh, 1/2 hour away, most big-time entertainment tours come nearby.

Beaches and mountains, in opposite directions, are both beautiful and within an easy 2-3 hour drive.

Negatives: traffic! Depending on when you need to get between the Triangle cities (or beyond), particularly if you need to use the main highway, I-40, you can easily encounter a parking lot at any time. There are ways around, but it is a royal pain in the butt at times (and every weekday in the morning and afternoon). Routes into CH can be a pain, too.

I don't know what your political or religious beliefs are, but CH is the most liberal of North Carolina cities --interpreted that George Bush and Jesse Helms are *not* held in the highest esteem among the vast majority of CH residents, but they win election in the rest of the state. Chapel Hill may not be the place for you if ultraconservatism and the Bible belt morals get on your nerves, but you can find *plenty* of people with a different perspective; the conservatives and bible-thumping folks are highly prevalent. For the most part, everyone "agrees to disagree."

It gets really hot here! But probably no more than Austin or St. Louis...I want perfect weather all the time but for some reason haven't found that particular spot...

Austin

After reading MS Miller's account of Chapel Hill, I'd have to say Austin is VERY similar - except beaches and mountains are a little farther away!

Austin is also quite liberal - (if memory serves, Gore took Travis county and Dubya isn't all that popular here either) and a very well educated city. Perhaps the #1 city in the US as far as most college educated per capita.

We too have theatre, museums, TONS of live music, lakes, parks, etc. Nearby large cities. Green city with lots of support for environmental issues, college sports aplenty, South by Southwest Music festival, etc. etc.

Negatives? Traffic,(double in population over the past 20 years and the roads just can't keep up) high humidity, long, hot summers, increasing taxes and rising housing costs. (A nice, decent one bedroom apartment will run you about $750 per month. A decent 3 bedroom house in a middle class neighborhood is about $160K minimum.)

However, while Austin did take a nose dive on the job arena, esp. in high tech, things are picking up a bit.

It's a tough call.

sofun1

UPDATE!
What an education I got when visiting Chapel Hill/Raleigh last week! We had a realtor show us around for 2 full days. I guess this heading should now read "St. Louis, Austin, or Raleigh" since we could not afford anything in Chapel Hill. While it is a buyers market (average home on market 4 months!) we'd be interested in Carrboro (if we're lucky), but more likely North or SW Raleigh or Cary. One interesting observation: Out of at least 50 homes we went in, all but one smelled like mold/musty (esp. in garage). Most homes we viewed were 2-15 years old (handful 20-40 yrs). And, I didn't expect the homes to wear so hard (the one without the musty smell was the best construction, too.)

However, the entire time wasn't spent looking at houses (though our realtor did mention "yankees" ALOT and I got the distinct impression that "outsiders" especially Northerners carry some kind of negative tone to NC natives.) Hmmmmm. The beach is indeed only a hop away (Wrightsville = 2 1/2 hrs) and a nice bonus. The lakes were OK but the brown water wasn't enticing (we've got a boat). And as expected, people were genuinely friendly. In fact, we stopped in a Panera Bread (aka St. Louis Bread Co.) and chatted it up with an employee who was 18 years old from St. Louis. She said she hated it there! Nothing for a kid to do. Upon thinking about it, she's got a point. I think someone coming from a big city and going to Austin or Raleigh/Chapel Hill area should expect less "stuff". (she highlighted 6 Flaggs, zoo, pro games, major shopping malls, teenager stuff close by) I guess both have a more "towny" feel for a reason.

Next we're looking at going to St. Louis for Labor day to do the same type of trip. Realtor for 2 days and a day trip to Lake of the Ozarks (comparable
to "weekend" getaways to the ocean or Lake Travis for Austin or ocean /mountains from Raleigh.)

Any more suggestions or thoughts?

Clifton

Just a quick suggestion. Since you're going to be spending most of your time with the Realtor, when you do head for the lake, take the scenic route. Don't go I-70 and then south.

I suggest taking at least part of Missouri Hwy 94 south through the wine country. Some of the more scenic little German towns would be Augusta (still in St. Charles County, through the wildlife areas) with Mt. Pleasant and Augusta wineries, and Hermann, which is further west, but classic wine town, with historic Stone Hill winery right in the middle of town.

You could pick up some wine on the way to the lake, and the towns might make a nice contrast to the energetic pace of the Lake of the Ozarks.

Tan-Tar-A I think is still the best resort on the lake. If Osage Beach gets to be a little "much", drive around to the town of Eldon. Still on the lake, but way quieter.

Austin

Sofun, when you get ready to make a trip to Austin, post here again. I can reccommend a great realtor. I think he'd be happy to show you around.

If you have a boat, Austin has two nearby lakes. But, many say they are very crowded. If you don't like that sort of thing, you'd have to drive a little farther north to Lake LBJ or Lake Buchanon.

sofun1

omygosh! I can't believe I forgot about the wineries in Hermann MO (it's been so long, didn't think they were "on the way" to the lake.) I've got a couple Stone Hill wines in my fridge! What a cool place to go through. You're right about going to Tan-Tar-A at the lake too (never been to Eldon), as Osage Beach is still probably the same. (any other suggestions from anyone on a cool place to have a bite to eat/drink at the lake?)

Austin, can you send/post your email address? I spoke to a Realtor regarding Travis Lake South property about 1+ months ago and he never followed up or sent anything. THANKS!