Vicki

Hasn't there been enough discussion about the flag on the TV, etc. Let's talk about what we are here for travel. Charleston and the surrounding islands are wonderful my parents and sister and her family moved to the area over 5 years ago. The Hampton Inn is an excellent choice, however, if you don't mind spending a little more the Best Western King Charles Inn is excellent and closer to the market, etc. The B&Bs tend to be pricey and are really more Inn's then B&Bs. An excellent restaurant aside from rather trendy Magnolia's and Carolina's (very popular with tourists) is Slightly North of Broad (SNOB). EXCELLENT FOOD beautiful atmosphere. Anton's is another excellent restaurant. Next to Magnolia's is Blossom's which is excellent food as well. In Mt. Pleasant if you are journeying there is Idlewild. EXCELLENT FRIED GREEN TOMOATOES. This is on 17 heading from Charleston into Mt. Pleasant. All of the mentioned activities are great. Due have a drink on the Roof of the Vendue Inn. Beautiful spot to enjoy the Harbor. There are TONS and TONS to do in Charleston the walk tours are great and the carriage rides are great to for viewing the area. Also any house tours are wonderful. Tons of shopping all around Charleston. Patriot's Point is excellent as well. Have fun it is one of the most beautiful and romantic cities I have been too.

sabrina

The South (that would include South Carolina) was built completely on an economic system that exploited free slave labor. When you wave that flag, that is the ''earlier time'' you're harkening. Let's also not forget that the flag didn't fly over the statehouse until 1962 -- as a symbol of protest for desegregation efforts that lawmakers in South Carolina were staunchly against. When you embrace this symbol, you embrace all of its history and that history is mostly ugly. We will not just stop talking about it because someone has seen too much of it on TV or because it somehow doesn't fit in with someone's travel plans.

Pam

If you're in Charleston on a Friday afternoon, go to see the parade at the Citadel. It begins about 3:30 with a marching band with bagpipers, the cadets in their batallions and much cannon fire! Lasts about an hour. The campus is lovely and it's a great way to spend an afternoon.

Ginny

Dear Ben,
You are in for a treat.

Worth visiting: The Angel Oak tree, you will find directions in Charleston.

Two great restaurants:
Hymans - downtown Charleston (fabulous Shrimp and Grits), and the other is a very "local" place. If you head towards Folly Beach (worth a visit in it's own right), about 8 miles from Charleston, you will see a sign for Bowens Island restaurant on the right. Last time we were there (in oyster season) we paid $15 per person for all you can eat roasted oysters...mmmmmmm, they give you a rag, oyster knife and a bucket, the guys tends to the fire and when the oysters are ready he puts his huge shovel into the fire, loads up and dumps the oysters right down on your table.... and you can sit there all night and shuck if you like (we had 7 dozen each). If it is not oyster season there are lots of other "local" yummies to tempt you. But, be forwarned, it looks like a shack, and secondly watch where you park - if the tide comes in, your car is gone...enjoy Charleston, a true slice of the South!

arjay

Nearing the countdown for our "southern getaway" and I've enjoyed/appreciated all these posts, the what-to-see, where-to-eat, as well as the political ones.
(Dan -- I may be e-m'g you directly for some food, etc. ideas).
Maybe, if we all argued less, and felt/responded more....we could make some actual progress in human relations??? I've just finished listening to "Killer Angels," a Pulitzer-winning account of the Battle of Gettysburg, and look forward to reading the two sequels...I've heard these arguements that the Civil War wasn't just about slavery....but still am trying to understand what it then WAS about...And another...off the cuff...thought...If there are tourism packages to Viet Nam, can visiting S. Carolina be such a bad thing????

Cal

Come on folks, lighten up! We're talking leisure travel here... Regardless of your opinion about the use of the flag, Charleston is right up there with San Francisco and other American cities as one of the most hospitable and beautiful cities in America!--In fact, it has rightfully been honored in visitation polls as a leader in both of these categories.

Ben, proceed on to Charleston for a true taste of southern hospitality and grace. You can walk everywhere in the gorgeous historic district. For a history of the city and to best acquaint you with the "lay of the land", take the official motorized trolley tour from the Convention Center where you can also view a comprehensive film about the historic district.--There, you can also pick up brochures about major side-trips and entertainment opportunities. Ask about the professional musical productions which we certainly enjoyed. For a relaxed, romantic perspective, also take one of the horse and buggy tours in the late afternoon or evening.

Our top restaurant picks are:
>>>Lunch: Poogan's Porch
>>>Dinner: Magnolias or Carolinas
All of these feature traditional "old south" cuisine with a "low country" flair.

Charleston has a wealth of equally fine bed and breakfast inns and if you will call the Charleston Convention & Visitors Bureau, they will provide you with all of the current listings. I'm sure they can also hook you up with a comprehensive web site.

We have traveled all over the world and Charleston draws us back with its'
"romantic, old south charm" and it also possesses a pleasing "European flavor".


March and April are beautiful months throughout the south..If you get the chance, also visit nearby Savannah for another taste of southern grace and diversity. It's about two and

dan woodlief

Arjay, feel free to hit me for any info you need. Didn't mean to turn anyone off with the political talk if I did. It is just that I do have an educational background in history and political science, so it is something I like to discuss. Combine them with travel, one of my real loves, and I just go nuts sometimes. Plus, as a native Southerner (born here and have lived here for 29 of 37 years), the flag issue does mean a lot to me. This is no comment on Charleston, but just to provide you with an insiders view (or at least informed opinion) of the South. Hospitality is indeed in great supply here. It is just that prejudice is too (not that it is not everywhere - I have run into it in many unexpected places-you should have seen the argument I had with close relatives once; it wasn't a pretty sight). Often, the hospitality and genuine gentility that exists in the South can cover up this prejudice. You have to live here to really see it most of the time. I just see the flag's position on the statehouse, or at least the refusal to remove it, as an overt expression of this mostly now unexpressed attitude. Attitudes here are greatly improving though. I do agree with the Vietnam commment. I have traveled to China, as much as I feel that the U.S. government has been too soft on that country. I wish I could travel to Cuba too. To travel is to learn. Sorry about that outburst (another thing that comes from my education is a tendency toward wordy discourses).

I did find that the people in Charleston I encountered were very nice and hospitable, and the service was better than anywhere else I have traveled (except for in the cheap hotel where we stayed - the worst ever - Red Roof Inn in Mt. Pleasant if anyone is interested). I am sure you will have a great trip. I know I am looking forward to returning.

The Killer Angels is a great book. I remember reading it in a military history class.

jjk

Dan,

Please watch your statements about prejudice in the South, and how you phrase it. I'm a born Southerner who has lived and traveled in other parts of the country. There is prejudice just as strong in New England, in New York, in the Midwest, all over this country, as strong as any in the South and my black friends all admit to racism to some degree. It is an unfortunate fact of our life and our history in this country. But at this point and time, many blacks prefer life if the South, feel it's as fair and friendly to them as any spot in the U.S., the flag issue aside.

There are many kinds of discrimination, and they are just as alive in other parts of this country as they are in the South, and always have been to some degree!

dan woodlief

No offense intended jjk, and I am sorry if it was implied. I lived in Madison, WI for 8 years. Even though it was a relatively liberal town (compared to most in America, I would think), I encountered enough prejudice there to agree with you on its prevalence. There are certainly wide ranging degrees of prevalence between cities and rural areas, between states, and between areas within states. I really do think things have changed in the expression of the prejudice that exists. People realize that it is no longer very acceptable to express those opinions, so you don't hear them as often. For example, the relatives I mentioned, stopped saying certain things around me once I made if very clear how I felt. In addition, I think the level of prejudice has decreased tremendously. Now, you may find people still prefer to do things with their own races, but they don't necessarily look down on those who are different. I have noticed changes in individuals over time too.

I hope this clarifies my own opinions some. I honestly do think there is more prejudice here in the South than in most of the country, but we are not alone. It exists all over the country and the world in some form, and it certainly has had perhaps greater consequences in many other countries.

I hope I don't turn anyone off about the South by these posts. It is a great place to live and to visit. I guess I am just opinionated and like such discussions. I know I often enjoy hearing about some of the more unsavory and controversial aspects of places I am planning to visit. I feel that I learn a lot more by hearing these things. Anyone out there is entitled to disagree or just tell me to shut up anytime they would like. I would prefer the former though.

jjk

Dan,

I do not think Southerners are more prejudiced; however, they may be more honest and outspoken about how they really feel about anything. Just because you keep quiet about your prejudices doesn't make you any less racist. The bottom line is, some of the most, so-called, liberal and open-minded people (of either race) never socialize with anyone but their own ethnic group, and would DIE if their child married someone outside their own group. But they leap all over someone who will admit that they feel that way!

I would never agree that there's more prejudice in the South. How about all the cabbies in NY who don't want black passengers? Just one example! You do the country a real mis-service when you make statements such as you have above!

dan woodlief

Ok, I must have a wild imagination then. However, I was under the impression that the South's history of discrimination was widely known. The region as a whole didn't exactly move into desegregation without quite a bit of kicking and screaming. I certainly would not criticize my own home and family for no reason. What am I supposed to think when I hear people discuss a future race war as something just waiting to happen or always refer to a man who happens to be black as a "black man" while referring to a white man as simply "a man?" I did say things are better now, and in fact much better than even ten years ago. For example, since I moved away, NC's Mexican population has grown tremendously. I have commented to my wife several times that it is nice to see that there are few negative comments made about them from people whom I would have expected to make them. They appreciate that these individuals have come here to work hard and help their families back home. In fact, it seems that people have become more accepting of diversity in general. I didn't leave New York out of my statements. I recognize fully that the South is not alone in this. Heck, if you want me to name other examples, I will - based again on history and personal experiences (just please no personal attacks as a result) - Hungarians and Gypsies, Serbs and Albanians, Serbs and Bosnian Muslims, and South African Whites and Blacks especially until recently. I don't see why my statements should bother anyone, since they were stated as opinion based on historical knowledge and personal experiences. They are not meant to condemn any group of people, any region, any country, or any individual. Where you live in the South may be different. It is a big region, and perhaps generalizations are not even appropriate.

I think it is more of a disservice to do as some do when they say that discrimination is no longer an issue. It just isn't supported by the law anymore, but it still exists.

Your first point is well taken about the lack of inter-racial socializing. I have seen in NC and WI that it can give people a different perspective on things.

Sorry to tie up your post with all this Ben. If anyone wants to continue the discussion by e-mail, the above address is correct. Maybe you have gotten something from the discussion, maybe you haven't. If you have any other questions about Charleston, let me know.

Mike Miller

Stayed there last weekend in the Best Western King Charles Inn on Meeting Street. A nice place to stay with wine and cheese (free) between 5pm and 6pm daily. Do not eat at AW Shucks in the market area - terrible crab cakes. Sticky Fingers is a good lunch spot and the restaurant at Middleton Place was excellent.

Buster

If you're gay, don't come to SC. We do't want no fags here

arjay

We LOVED Stickyfingers (actually, we ate at the one in Mt. Pleasant). And we LOVED Charleston. Can't wait to go back.

Roger

I live in Charleston on the Isle of Palms,about 10 miles from downtown. My favorite seafood restaurant is the Boathouse at Breech Inlet. You will need reservations. My second favorite is the Charleston Crabhouse (3 locations. All the ones mentioned above are also good. PS: Don't let the comments about the Flag get you concerned.

dan woodlief

Arjay, glad to see you had a good time in Charleston. We also liked the Sticky Fingers in Mt. Pleasant and Le Mistral.