WHAT'S WITH JOHN MONTANA AND HIS POSTS?
 

I've come across several LONG and I do mean *****LONG***** posts by some dude named John Montana. They're the same endless ramblings and never have anything to do with the question that someone asks. Is he some frustrated, never published wanna be writer and is just taking out his so called creative juices on us?

He is just one of many!

One of very ,very many!

Well, I for one, find John's posts rather enjoyable reading (and I read Fitzgerald and Hemingway for the fun of it). If John wants to continue practicing writing travelogues on this forum its all right by me. <BR> <BR>

Hey Hey, you give me to much credit and now I will blow my own cover. I simply cut and pasted a interesting article I read in the CSAA magazine. People wanted idea's on what to do in SF and I thought it appropriate due to the varied stories /likes and dislikes that interest people. Frankly I would ratherr have to much info than not enough. Sorry if it seemed to go on and on. I promise I will never do it again. It you can't accept that then get a grip. Just trying to help...

John, I enjoyed the stories, and really didn't mind that they were long. But you absolutely should write credit when you cut and paste like that. And while I suspect excerpts are okay, taking entire articles might violate some copyright laws. Still, no one is likely to object if you give proper credit.

John, Taking what Beth says into consideration, post what you think someone else might need and might enjoy! If some of the posters don't enjoy it, they just won't read it, which is fine, too. <BR> <BR>I am discovering, on this Forum, that some people do not want anything posted that they wouldn't post themselves, or an opinion expressed that does not agree with theirs. I really think this is sad, especially for a Forum, for Pete's sake, and I'm sure deters some people who would like to express themselves but do not for fear of being attacked. Personally, I don't give a hoot! <BR> <BR>Stay with us! This is a Forum, not a mutual admiration society!

Does no one see that what John did was plain, old-fashioned dishonest? <BR> <BR>We might well enjoy a long, rambling meditation on some great travel experience -- it would be a welcome relief from the contentious and offensive squabbling on tangential issues. But write it yourself, and offer sincere sharing of your own responses. <BR> <BR>On the other hand, the honesty in "confessing" is commendable. And he'd never have been "outed" if there weren't people more interested in the form of the forum than its content. <BR> <BR>Glad you won't do it again, John, and no, it's not a capital crime: but objecting to it isn't just a matter of "getting a grip." Nor, oh ubiquitous, disagreeable and disagreeing Bonnie, is it merely a matter of personal preference. It's a matter of personal integrity and respect for those who expect worth from the forum. <BR>

I have never done or intended to do ANYTHING dishonest. I never once said that I wrote it. I simply posted it. And to all those individuals who think it some type of copyright infringement, Bull. The internet is a free exchange of ideas FREE FREE FREE. I didn't try to make a buck or anything. Believe it or not I was trying to help people. I don't need to confess jack just explain the reason for the LOOOOOOOOOOng Posting. Stop being internet/idea police and or high and mighty critics. If you don't like it tough. Im guilt free. Period.

If you post something, people assume you wrote it. You are taking credit for someone else's work. Now, this may be inadvertant, and in your case it seems to be. If you don't know much about writing, your can't be expected to know that what you did counts as plagiarism. But it does, and it's objectionable.

Martah, TreeBeard, guess what! there are children starving in Africa. War in India/Pakistran. More children starving in No. Korea. Get a grip!!! I don't give a fat rat's ass if you think I wrote it or not. I don't care if you find it objectionable or not. I helped at least 4 people plan their trip to SF. <BR>Find a good cause to get offended/flustered with or in my uneducated plageristic language "get a life"....

John, despite what you may think copying someone else's written work and posting it without credit is dishonest. We accept that you didn't mean to be, but its not much different from copying a term paper from an encyclopedia. And calling us "thought police" for recognizing it as plagiarism is one of the more ludicrous things I've read lately. Also, while its true that the Internet was conceived as a free exchange of ideas amongst research and development institutions back when it was the ArpaNet, anyone who thinks it is about the "free exchange" of ideas is being naive. Its about commerce and the almighty dollar (or Euro or whatever currency you like), and always will be. We're lucky that so much is available free of charge. Enjoy it while it lasts, because we will be paying for the content sooner or later.

Are you having fun yet.

There are children starving and you're helping peole plan frivolous trips to SF? For shame.

Hmm. That came out meaner than I intended, and in the hope that a soft answer will turn away a little wrath, I will try again: <BR>No one is accusing you of deliberately doing the wrong thing. We thought that you might want to know why using someone's work without crediting it is objectionable. You do not appear to care, which is somewhat disheartening. The person who wrote the article probably makes a living out of writing. Most people do not want the means by which they earn their keep to be distriuted for free and uncredited. While you may not feel that way about your own work, it does not seem unreasonable for you to understand and honor the feelings of those who do. <BR>If understanding and respect are not qualities you value, I hope you do not travel much.

Well im cutting and pasting with my right hand (I just can't stop plagerising)and packing food and clothing with my left to send to Africa. Oh shoot I just packed a box of Corn Flakes. I hope no one get's mad because it was made by Kelloggs. Im afraid someone will think that I grew the corn and packaged it and maybe think im taking all the credit for it. Oh my maybe someone will object that I sent (used) Corn Flakes to a needy person and am going to take all the credit for it. I think im gonna cry BOO HOO. (Warning this message is meant to be sarcastic, any reference to persons living or dead is only a coincidence).

If your so concerned with giving credit (money) then send a buck to Fodor's why don't you.

John has admitted he made a mistake, and he's been told why it was a mistake. Beth said what needed to be said perfectly in her first post. Why don't we drop it and move on - there was only good intended. <BR> <BR>John is not the only one who has done this, but when I recognized it from other people, I assumed they meant only to help, and let it go. I think the subject could have been brought up in a general way on the Forum - but John was named, and came forward, and I find that very commendable. <BR> <BR>And, Treebeard, you sweet thing you, I'm sorry that my differences of opinion unsettle you but that's life!

Who really cares! This is suppose to be <BR>a TRAVEL forum,You people sound like a bunch of little kids.

Jan, how dare you insult me and my antagonist. We may be a bunch of kids but we are kids with a purpose. The important and worthwhile debate between whiners and plagerist. We deserve some respect for clogging up forums with percieved insults and mindless banter. How dare you Jan. I think you owe us an apology or at least a spanking. Please.

Very touchy. How did I mistakenly wander onto this site.

Leave John alone. Since when did so many of you become self apointed regulators of the internet. This forum is every bit as much his as anyone elses. Get a life and leave others alone. If you don't like his posting than skip them but you are not the official forum's "Drivel Patrol".

IMHO, its ok that you did what's being discussed in this thread, John, I feel the net IS free, and people who want to use it for commerce can do what they please, maybe I like it maybe not. But, the Net is free. You have said the equivalent of 'sorry' when asked, but its obvious your initial intentions were to spread the info for helping others. That's what education is all about...and there are some of us who STILL feel that the net is more about learning than commerce. Not that I am opposed to either, but even if I'm opposed to plagiarism, John was not into deception with the initial cut/paste, merely education. John...Now maybe give us the full citation here, (since some people will drag this on forever, though I dont care personally), that way the writer will get credit?

Or, post the citation on the thread where you put the article?

You people really need to get a life!

I will give credit where credit is due. <BR>AAA web site address: <BR> <BR>www.csaa.com/ <BR> <BR>Trying not to re-direct business from Fodor's but my integrity has been challenged (sorry Fodor's I tried to keep everyone on you great web site). Lot's of good article's for travel in the west. <BR> <BR>To all those to whom I have offended I am sorry. To those who feel the need to regulate idea's I am really sorry but not for neglecting to give credit where credit is due but for revealing how empty your lives must be. How tortured your so-called loved ones are. Your glasses of water are definatly half full. <BR> <BR>Lets shake hands and continue to help people. And apox on youyr house if anyone else post on this thread. <BR> <BR>Later Days

I think you may have missed the point here. This is their life. But we had best be moving along quickly now, I can hear the "police" coming already. There is certainly no shortage of people accusing other people of "policing".

I don't usually even read this forum, but I found this thread interesting due to the blatant disregard for the law and for intellectual rights by John, who has the nerve to criticize others for objecting to his behavior. John and others who support his unethical and illegal behavior are also ignorant in thinking that one can violate copyright laws and post other people's property on the internet because it is "free." John violated Fodor's terms of service (I suggest all guilty parties actually read the legal terms of service governing this WEB site that you can find on the front section), and no doubt the CSAA magazine's, who I am sure has copyrighted that material. He has violated Fodor's legal agreements which, if you read them, state that no one is allowed to post on this board material they have copied from another source. It is also conceivable that he has subjected Fodor's to possible litigation from the owner of that material. This is NOT trivial, as a writer and published author myself, it bothers me a lot the extent to which people think it is ok to steal something just because it is words, not an object; I can't imagine why anyone with even common street knowledge wouldn't know that copying an article from someone and posting it under your own name is illegal. It is not legal even if you do attribute it, unless you have the owner's permission; it's only legal to copy it for yourself alone, not to post it publicly on the internet. I personally am skeptical that the intent was benign, either, as I have never seen someone do this (print an entire article on an internet BB in response to a simple question); any person who usually knows of a good article or reference on a BB will simply mention it and refer the poster to the correct site/URL or whatever, they do not blatantly copy the article and post it under their name without attribution. The correct response would have been to refer the questioner to the CSAA URL.

John certainly has shown the ability to defend himself without the help of others; but Christina's post takes the cake. "UNETHICAL....ILLEGAL"? This forum is not rocket science nor representative of a scholarly journal...For pete's sake, John took an article from the California Automobile Association about San Francisco and thought it would be helpful. Gee, I bet that is contrary to the intent of the CSAA!

Christina is absolutely right and expresses the reality behind this debate very succinctly. <BR> <BR>However, I think this whole thread is missing one big point: this John character is playing with you. He's cackling while he pushes people's buttons. No one's really that whacked. <BR> <BR>I'm surprised that Fodor's hasn't wiped this thread yet. Don't they monitor this board anymore?

You idiots must not have anything else to do all day besides type all this garbage that makes no sense. Get a life!

Tammy--doesn't your description include you as well? I think that's a little harsh, calling yourself an idiot. Of course, you know you much better than we do. We have only your admission that you can't understand these fairly simple posts to judge your intelligence by. For my part, I would describe you as more of a moron than an idiot. But you may be right.