What would you do? Refund issue.
 

We just stayed in a bed and breakfast type place (minus the breakfast). We waited two hours and it took calling four people to be met at the property to drop our bags (we were told someone would be there- but got a total run-around). It was described there would be a deck-patio area adjacent to the room. The deck was utterly under construction and no deck furniture provided. The last straw, and my real cause for complaint, is that the last night we were there, we had no hot water. Owner not on property. We didn't figure it was worth it to make a phone call that night, but just to wait it out and see if the hot water tank refilled. It basically ruined our night since we couldn't clean up and go out. The next morning we had to get up early at 7am and get going (last morning there, wanted to make the most of our last day), and again, ice cold water, no shower. We didn't call the proprietor that morning for fear of the same sort of run-around as we got at check-in where we'd end up waiting hours for someone to get there and fix it. Instead, we just cleaned up with wash cloths, no shower, and went on our way feeling not so fresh.

I wrote to the owner upon our return and he's not even apologized for ANY of it (and I've been nice!!) and after two argumentative emails, has offered about 30% refund. My husband and I have asked for a full refund of our final night's stay since we had no hot water. The best he'll do is refund $50 (we paid $191 a night, including taxes).

I told the guy if he couldn't refund my money, I would take it up with Visa (which has a great policy about these things), but I HATE to play that card.

Would you just go to Visa and get it over with? Am I over-reacting?

My childish instinct is to write an honest trip review about the place here and at Trip Advisor.com and send him the links ;) LOL- but I'll not be so petty.

Why don't you write the ombudsman at Conde Nast? They are supposedly really effective. I don't think you're being unreasonable at all.

Is this part of the same trip where you had the horrible turbulence on the airplane? Poor you, sounds like a really awful trip all around.

LOL, it was the FIRST part of a wonderful trip, all in all :)

We went to NYC and DC. The awful flight was between the two cities. I survived!

p.s., I'll post all the GREAT things about the trip as soon as I have time to compile them!!

You would have had a much better case if you HAD called the landlord about the hot water the last night and next morning. I would have - many times if necessary. But you chose not to tell him because you thought it wouldn't do any good. The owner could persuasively claim "There is no proof - if there was no hot water why didn't they tell me?"

So I'd probably take the 30% and be done w/ it.

We gave up on B&B's after just a few dismal experiences (among many other specactular ones) for all the difficulties you've mentioned, along with arrival/departure contingencies. Worst, included breakfast (no choices, stingy with the coffee, for heavens sake) served only between 7-7:30.

Soundproofing (lack of), plumbing, lack of hot water, complaints are rampant among B&B's. Along with ridiculously stiff cancellation policies and staff absent and without any authority.

Such a shame, as there are plenty of absolutely fabulous B&B's all over which are positively delightful in every way.

Worse, once you know what questions to ask prior to booking, many could not be more offput by your suspicions! (Those to be avoided, obviously.)

Just curious here, what do you mean by "minus the breakfast"?

Anyway, if it were me, I would definitely post a fact-filled report on TripAdvisor.

I, personally, believe that no hot water, any time of the day or night, is justification for a full refund. Disputing your charges with VISA may or not be successful, but I'd give it a big try.

B&B owners KNOW full well if their hot water supply is insufficient. They tend to post notes all over the place hoping you "understand" for the "experience" (also lacking) - once you're stuck there for the duration, not during the shopping/booking process.

To me, you are definitely NOT over-reacting. About the hot water.

As for being met, B&B's do tend to have limited check-in hours (not that this is necessarily reasonable).

This reminds me of a place I was about to book on Cape Cod, when the OWNER advised me we needed to check in by 5PM on a Friday night. Most places will leave the keys with your room number in an envelope outside the office for you. (Especially when you've prepaid the entire visit.) And, we were driving down after work on a Friday.

Worst B&B experience was checking into a place that did not allow pets (not that we wanted to bring one), yet their HUGE dog was utterly disgusting while checking in and throughout our stay.

And, then there was the place that did not allow children, but the owners threw theirs (brats) into the "wine & cheese" hour apparently hoping everyone would be delighted with them.

All in all, a phone call (so gracious of you) would not have helped regarding the lack of hot water. They tell you it's fine except on your particular day everyone wanted to shower at the same time. Even so?

janisj and I were responding at the same time.

Again, owners know darned well when their hot water supply is insufficient.

Calling, no matter how many times, should not be required of you, and would probably NOT have resulted in hot water anytime soon.

I cannot imagine anyone (particularly given your obvious kindness) disputing your claim that there was no hot water when you needed it.

Oh, I should note, apparently other guests DID experience the same problem and called to complain and we were told by the staff employee on hand at check out the next afternoon that "the boiler was somehow turned off." ??

The thing is, prior to arrival, we were told by the owner via email, that a man would be there at 10 am to greet us when we arrived. I called the man when we got there, he said it was his day off. He said "call this phone number." We called and got a cell phone going straight to voicemail in Spanish. Left several messages. Called first man back- no answer. Called ownder left message. Found wireless connection, emailed owner that morning to find out how to drop bags at check in, no response. Finally, we just started dialing phone numbers that we found at the B&B (a converted NYC UES brownstone type building- used to be a home or apartment building, now the rooms are rented out nightly). At the fourth "contact" we reached a random guy who came in to the UES from Brooklyn to let us in! After that two hour hassle, that's why we didn't call the first night... thinking it was just the hot water tank, then realizing the next morning at the ungodly hour of 7am, no one was going to come to our rescue, and we would've wasted another few precious hours in NYC waiting for a deadbeat to come attend to the issue.

Hopefully that paints a more complete picture.

Thanks for listening everyone!

Why I NEVER do a B&B.

"Bed and Breakfast" seems to conjure up in some person's minds a cozy, historic inn where they will be pampered and cared for.

Proprietors are not usually professional innkeepers. I do not understand why persons are willing to pay premium rates for an 'old' (advertised as "historic") house with supposed "charm" and supposed "great breakfasts" when the opposite is usually the case.

Also I do not appreciate being squeezed into a space where I am supposed to be "instant intimate friends" with whomever is sharing the limited space and eating three feet away from me. Not to mention that last night I had to listen to their conjugal arguments, in their next-door room, way into the night.

Go to VISA and good luck proving that you did not get what you paid for...

I had a problem with a hotel I stayed at in San Francisco recently. I wrote a comment in Trip Advisor and Fodors hotel "rate it" section. I felt better AND I think I did a service for other travellers. My suggestion is maybe you should do the same.

Your post reminds me why I don't do B&B's anymore. Holiday Inn Express & Hampton Inn are not nearly as charming as some B&B's, but I don't have to pay in advance, or have a stranger scrunched in beside me at breakfast (provided I can make it down during the limited time it's offered!) I would call VISA ... I'm betting the B&B owner will be a lot more co-operative once they're in the picture. Good luck!

I agree that B&B reality often does not equate with the image that some people have. however, it is just more important to book off of a recommendation or after careful research of reviews on the internet.

I totally agree that OPs experience merits complaint and the writing of negative reviews. However, some of the comments of others leave me thinking...

everyone seems to complain that everything (not just hotels) today is cookie cutter corporate...same everywhere you go. but i think this is really what people want. a b&b does not have the services of a hotel. i do think that limited check in hours IS reasonable. i have always been asked when i will arrive and if i'm late, i call. if i'm early, i don't expect them to be there.

i was just at a b&b where there was ONE breakfast table for all guests (3 rooms = 6 people). we were a little taken aback at first but you go with the flow. we ended up meeting a great couple our age and a retired couple who circled the world many times in creative ways. breakfast was fantastic and we ended up looking forward to it each morning. and by the way, the owner could have replaced the original beautiful dining table (original to the ancient house, that is) with separate cafe tables to better meet the expectations of the modern traveler, but i'm glad he did not.

Sounds to me like they're just plain unscrupulous. Was this in NYC? In your shoes, I'd either TELL them what I want or, if they're offering 30% refund of the <i>total stay</i>, I'd take it, chalk it up to experience and write the online reports. If they're just offering a $50 refund, I'd would tell them in that case you will dispute the entire charge with Visa and go ahead and write the reports online.

I can't tell from your story whether the booking agent co. also runs the building or whether the fault may lie with the building management rather than the booking agent.

I will mention that there's a very unscrupulous rental co. that is known for, among other things, taking money from renters and not passing it along to the owners of the properties. It's possible the poor service at the building was in retribution for lack of payment and you, the renter got caught in the middle. Would you please post where this happened and the name of the booking co.

Two years ago, I was very upset as I was facing chemo for the first time. It was Thanksgiving weekend so I wanted to go away and be pampered. We went to a very nice looking B&amp;B -- and expensive in North Carolina.

We were supposed to be there for two nights. It was not a good experience -- no fault of their's so we asked if they would let us leave early -- no they would charge us for both nights even though we had only decidec on Wednesday to come up on Friday and they would never have rented that room.

We decided to leave anyway and lose that money. They charged me $200 additional to the two days claiming we had damaged toe room. When I called the credit card company, they told me it was too bad --- they always take the innkeepers side! We cancelled that card. I could not keep it open because he could have charged additional money if he claimed even more damages. I would not take that chance.

What had happened was that there was a gas fireplace in the room that we had used as instructed. We were unfamiliar with gas fireplaces. Since then we have learned that some have a damper and some do not. This one did and it was closed when we arrived and when the person instructed us, she did not check to see if it was open or mention it to us. We did not open it or touch it -- did not even know it was there. According to the owner -- it is always in an open position. He claimed we closed it on purpose to get soot over everything because we were angry he would not let us go without charging the second night. We did no such thing and realized after the fact that if we had left the fireplace on while sleeping, we probably would have died or gotten really sick.

We paid the bill because getting our credit wrecked over $200 is not something I wanted to do.

That said, we still stay at B&amp;B's -- just never that one. One jerk does not make up for all the great ones we have been in.

Have reread the thread and now see it was in NYC. Was this the place at 93 st b/w Fifth &amp; Madison listed under stay the night?

walkinaround, I am not saying there aren't some wonderful B&amp;Bs. We've stayed at The Gastonian in Savannah, Mast Farm Inn in Valle Crucis, etc., and it doesn't get any better than staying in those! :-) I really don't like to pay fully in advance when I travel, though I understand their policy in that regard. I like the flexibility of leaving on Thursday instead of Friday, let's say, if I really need to ... and that's out of the question with a B&amp;B as compared to a Hampton Inn, i.e. I think, when it comes to B&amp;Bs, you have to really know the reputation of a place .... as well as understand that you won't have the services and options that you will at a hotel.

Again, good luck, lynnejoe. Please let us know how this is resolved ...

I think everyone jumped on the &quot;bed and breakfast type place&quot; and thought it is a B&amp;B -- but reading everything from th OP it appears this isn't a hotel, B&amp;B or inn. It seems to be a brownstone w/ rooms let out nightly. Sort of like the self catering flats found all over Europe. Usually the owner is not on site and there is no staff except possible cleaners that come in and someone to inspect the place at check out.

I'm not saying this excuses the problems lynnejoel had - just to explain why it is VERY possible the owner/manager was not around.

I've had only one similarly bad experience w/a well respected &amp; rated lodge, Manka's Inverness Lodge. We arrived later in the afternoon (about 3 pm) to find the place empty except for cleaning people. These folks were either incapable of speaking, or just didn't care. After looking around for more than 15 minutes &amp; unable to find anyone, we went down the road &amp; stayed at the Abalone Inn &amp; had a wonderful stay. I also called, &amp; sent an e-mail to the proprietor &amp; never rec'v'd a response. I did , however, receive a charge on my VISA bill for the two night stay I had scheduled, which VISA graciously removed since no cancellation policy, nor much of any type of info was ever provided by Manka's. At the very least, spread the word so others don't fall prey to the same type of visit you were exposed to...

&lt;&lt;What would you do? Refund issue&gt;&gt;

In case you really are interested in what I would do. I would just get on with my life. That's just me, though.

You stated that &quot;on the last night..&quot; you had no hot water, so I assume you were there for at least two days.

I work p/t at a chain hotel that has a 100% satisfaction guarantee. But part of the guarantee is that the guest must inform us of the problem and give us an opportunity to correct it. Not calling was a major blunder, I think. Even if others said they had already called you should have contacted them yourself.

I think the 30% refund too little. I think a 100$ refund too much; after all you did use the facilities for 1 day with minimal problems. And even without hot water, you still enjoyed a private room in NYC.

Tell the operator you want a 50% refund or you will fight all charges. And add &quot;owner-occupied&quot; to your list of requirements should you stay again at a B&amp;B.

I'd go to VISA... the biggest reason, it's generally up to the seller (the B&amp;B in this case) to prove that you did get what you paid for and not the other way around.

Make your complaint in detail and let VISA deal with it. In half the cases, the seller won't even dispute it.

I would go to Visa !!! You did not receive in total what you paid for. If you bought a set of dishes and some were missing would you still pay the full price ?

You can try VISA, but why didn't you complain loudly about misrepresentation from the first day, and start the threat then. I'd have left the next day. Better grounds for a refund.

Hey gang,

Thanks for all the responses. I feel awkward going to Visa for a refund of our 4th night's stay for something intangible like a hotel stay, but then there are tangible expectations one has when checking into any kind of hotel-like establishment: a bed and a hot shower. We paid for four nights to have these two minimal traits.

In my generally very flexible view, the hassle checking in and the under-construction deck were just small details, but having to skip an evening shower and thus staying in that night rather than living it up in NYC, then to have to go without a shower our last day in NYC just &quot;stunk&quot; :(

We chose this place because we're 26 years old, and don't have a lot of money. I work in non-profit and we just don't have the budget to stay in typical NYC $400- $500 night accommodations. This place was $165 + taxes a night. We've stayed in B&amp;B's before and have only had positive experiences.

I will call Visa tomorrow for a full refund of the 4th night. I just wanted to see if I was crazy for requesting a refund or not.

Maybe to some people you get what you pay for, and that's generally true, most especially true in a city like NY, but when paying for a hotel, you're always guaranteed a bed and a shower, right? :) I'll let you all know Visa's response.

If it was NYC you could bid on Priceline and paid less than you did. You won't be able to register a complaint with VISA by calling--you need to do it in writing.
And we don't pay $4-500/night for a hotel either.
Plus, I don't think I would have been deterred from going out to dinner by not having a shower unless I had been working in the yard all day. NOr would my children who are your age. Just my opinion.

I'd post my experience on travel boards as you are doing but in your case I think you need to name names. The purpose of this board is for others to benefit from your experiences, good or bad. We can't benefit if you don't disclose information such as the name of the place.

Having stayed in places without hot water, I'd have just taken a shower anyway, if I felt I was really 'smelly'.

I think you do need to call Visa to file a complaint. They'll give you a reference number to put on the form/letter you write.

What is a B&amp;B minus the breakfast and, it seems, no one on property? Did you rent an apartment?

Visa refund successful. They're issuing a credit to my account, I just have to fill out the paperwork they send me and return it. What will happen, is they will send a copy of my dispute to the owner of the place and if Visa determines that he tried to satisfactorily rectify the situation, then I won't get the credit officially. However, considering I have email proof that I'll attach with the paper work that he didn't even apologize for any of the problems, I've no doubt that I've &quot;won&quot; the case.

Luckily, I know my rights with Visa. I would recommend those of you who have similar situations in the future file a dispute with your card company (when honestly warranted).

We'd run in Central Park before dinner and wanted to clean up before going out that night. Runners in the forum will know what I mean about needing a shower! ;)

Grechen,

Thanks for the input. It was marathon weekend in NYC. Trust me, being frugal, I did lengthy research before booking, weighing lots of options, and no hotel was to be found cheaper for the time frame we were there.

Glad your daughter is a trooper! I have no tolerance for ice cold showers. Just can't do it, and not to the tune of $191 (including taxes and fees) per night!

Good for you! And, thanks for reporting back.

thanks! i WILL post all the positives about the trip soon.

wish i could recommend this place!! it was beautiful and in a beautiful location. darn it!

OK, now I'll name names, it is www.staythenight.com.

not a good omen from the get-go, but the guest book in the foyer had multiple pages torn out, so I suspect we weren't the only ones with &quot;issues&quot; there.

Good luck. I wouldn't spend the refund yet, though.

You didn't really mean that you are going to attach an e-mail to the paperwork as proof that he didn't apologize, did you? If that is what you meant then don't bother attaching the e-mail.

If you have an e-mail from him that offers the 30% refund, send that. If he sent you an e-mail admitting the problem, then definitely send that.

Visa asked that I attach the email correspondance.

i guess there is no way of knowing what the outcome would be. and i do think that you were not treated properly by this business. however, i would be surprised if visa were willing to get involved in this sort of dispute. as others have pointed out, you did not complain at the time or make reasonable attempts to get it remedied (i'm not saying i would have acted any differently - i understand not wanting to spend all day fighting with the owner).

so in the end it's kind of like having a meal that was not satisfactory (cold, not exactly as described on the menu, poor quality, etc)...then getting visa to refund the cost. in general it seems strange that visa would be willing to arbitrate customer satisfaction (there are always two sides to the story). i can see their involvement cases of clear fraud but satisfaction issues?