Fodor's Travel Talk Forums - What is "real" New York pizza?

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What is "real" New York pizza?

While browsing the forum I noticed a lot of "bickering" over what is and what isn't "real" New York pizza. How would you define "real" New York pizza and how is it different to "ordinary" pizza. I'd like to try both on an upcoming trip to the Big Apple!! I'll post my preference when I return. So suggestions as to where I can buy the "real" NY pizza would be much appreciated!! Thanks.

For "real" NY pizza, what you're looking for is thin-somewhat hard crust with oil running down your arm when you fold your slice in half. As far as where to go: any place in Manhattan or Brooklyn called "Sals" (Rent Movie "Do the Right Thing" by Spike Lee for further details)

Yes! Some older natives pointed us towards Ray-Bari's recently - And although delicious - we suspected it wasn't greasy enough to be the real thing!

without a doubt it is Pizza Hut.

Real NY pizza has a thin enough crust that it needs to be folded in half, AND it's sold by the slice. John's, Totonno's, and Grimaldi's, though they are fantastic, are coal oven (or brick oven) pizza, not "NY Style". They are sold by the pie and have EXTRA-thin crusts and fresh mozzarella on top (at least Grimaldi's does). Ray Bari is also very good, and is sold by the slice, but has a thick crust that you don't need to fold. I don't know what "ordinary" pizza is to you, Paul...to me "regular" pizza is NY-style!

Got to go with the rest, if it isn't foldable it just isn't 'real'. Never did it myself, but many good friends would stick a slice of pepperoni on a slice of cheese, fold it up and go for it.

ray bari? is that a joke? ny pizza should be folded, thick crust, and there isn't enough cheese/oil in the world. yum! for real ny pizza, try john's or patsy's.

I'm a fan of Ray's Pizza at Sixth Avenue and 11th Street. Not too thin or too thick a crust, has to be held vertical over the plate for a minute to drain the extra oil, great tomato sauce, and then have Italian ice for dessert!

I have been eating pizza for more than 60 years and the first time I came across the term "real NY pizza" was on this board. But since people are looking for an answer as to "what is real NY pizza" here is my definition. It consists of nothing more than tomatoe sauce , mozzarella cheese and a crust. and cutting into bite size pieces It can be thin crust or a doughy crust but which ever it is it MUST be folded when being eaten and the OIL must run down your arm. No slice on a plate being cut into bite size pieces. And above all it should not be made with anchovies, mushrooms, pepperoni , olives any other topping. Further it is not that horrid slice going by the name "white pizza"

Wrong on no toppings, thinly sliced garlic is a must

Just spent a week in NY and I can tell you, IMO, John's is NOT good (NY or otherwise) Pizza. After seeing a matinee we went to John's on 44th St. Sauce tasted like soup.... Not greasy, nor foldable....You can do much better elsewhere. Did, however, walk about 5 miles the following day in the snow when NY got about 8". Walking near central Park was like being in the middle of a Currier and Ives postcard. Walked over to Zabars for coffee and a bagel at H&H next door. Best day I've had in manhattan ever;-)

David, Does Zabar's have a sit down Deli restaurant or is it more like a store?

Real NY pizza is either regular sliced that can be folded and eaten on the run or Sicilian which is a thicker square cut; tasting almost like bread. What it isn't is something called "Chicago" pizza which is deep dish pizza. Unfortunately, it's difficult to get a good slice of pizza anymore thanks to the proliferation of "Original Rays." Sbarro, and other chains. If you are in Brooklyn, DiFara's makes excellent pizza. In Manhattan, I've had good slices at Stromboli's on University Place next to the Bowlmor bowling alley. For whole pizza I recommend Picasso on East 27th Street off Park Ave. So. The owner, Michael, makes whole pizzas in the Italian style, very thin. Also good is Lombardi's on Spring Street. IMO, John's in the Village and uptown is overrated but the uptown one has more atmosphere. Whenever you want a slice, make sure you get a slice that's come out hot from the oven. It's just not good reheated after sitting for awhile.

Paul; Real NY pizza is made in a hole-in-the-wall pizzeria. Just someones' first name like "Paul's" Pizza. It does not have to have many seats. Usually a small counter. Soda from a fountain with no cans available. Now for the pizza....must be made fresh, don't have one of the slices already in the display case. When it comes out of the oven let it sit for 5-7 minutes so that the cheese does not come off in one piece and give the roof of your mouth third degree burns. Must be served on a paper plate or sheet of white wax type paper. Thin crust, not too much sauce and generous with the mozzaralla cheese. (pronounced mootsa rrrell not mottsarella! :) Plenty of napkins. Pick it up by the crust, fold it in half, let the old drip off (please don't dab it with a napkin). Put the droopy end of the slice in your mouth and savor!!

NY - you are right about the name thing! My favorite NY-style pizza is at Mimma's and Anna Maria's, both on the Upper East.

It seems fairly evident that although there may be no technical definition, there are enough common threads that a few things stand out. I'll also add a few of my own.... 1) NY style pizza in general is of the Neopolitan style rather than Sicilian - this means wedge shaped slices that are relatively thin, not thick. Typically they can be folded to eat. Chicago style pizza (as I understand it), tends to have a deeper dish/thicker crust more in the Sicilian style. By the way.... plenty of folks of Sicilian extraction or descent make some of the best Neopolitan style pizza. 2) Two basic styles predominate in NYC (I'm excluding the Wolfgang Puck type chi-chi fou-fou "pizza" that may be served in some trendy restaurants - it can be good but doesn't fit into this discussion). One style is thin crust (typically coal or occasionally wood fired ovens), often with fresh mozzarella and sold by the pie for sit-down or take-out. Of the four classic examples mentioned (Grimaldi's, Lombardi's, Totonno's and John's), my favorite is Totonno's. The other predominant style is the one typical at places like the Ray's mentioned in a previous post. It does not HAVE to be folded but folding makes it easier to eat while walking (a requisite for the true NYC pizza eating experience). Furthermore, if in fact it is a greasy slice, you can let the initial grease run onto a napkin before you eat. The grease running down the length of your arm is not actually mandatory! 3) Years ago, you could walk up to any number of take-out windows on the street and get a good slice of the classic, foldable "NYC style" pizza. It was consistently good nearly everywhere. Most places made their own dough with care using local water and high quality flour. They also used real whole milk mozzarella cheese. Fast forward to the past few years - the majority of places selling take-out slices buy their dough pre-made in bulk from commercial food vendors or bakeries and are using a "cheese blend" that is cheaper than good mozzarella. the result is a dramatic decline in quality. Some of the Ray's locations (there are many "Ray's" - most of them not affiliated with one another) are good as is Joe's at 7th Sve South and Bleecker Street. Every neighborhood usually has one or two places that make a good old fashioned NYC style pie with slices to go but the rest are just mediocre glop. Passable, perhaps, but not memorable. If you visit NYC, please don't judge all the pie by the taste of a few!

Laura Zabars is mostly a store. Next to the store, as I recall, there is counter service for coffee and probably breads, pastry etc. But it is not a destination deli if that's what you mean. The store, however, is a destination in and of itself.

Excellent pizza, huge tasty slices at Koronet Pizza, 112th (approx.) and Broadway, near Columbia and Tom's restaurant (Seinfeld cafe facade). Not to be missed. But most non-chain (i.e. no "ray's" in the name) neighborhood pizza places are good. For example, Roma pizza on 88th and 3rd. Enjoy.

Owen, I love your explanation! Thanks for taking the time.

All this chatter about a pizza???