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Oh, forgot ot add:
Check out weatherbase.com for any questions on what the average temperature will be in a particular area. You are travelling over such a wide swatch of the West it's hard to give you any "average" temperature! |
I live in San Diego, so I think it's got a lot of interesting history and fun things to do. I don't think you should expand into Washington(Seattle)and Oregon. You really can't see everything in 25 days! The place that makes it dificult to plan your route without doublingback is Yellowstone. I can understand that you really would like to see it, but it makes the rest more rushed and awkward. Maybe you should stick pretty much to your original idea, with minor adjustments.
Re temperatures. In our deserts, both high and low, the temperature in the summer can easily be anywhere between 105F-120F(40C-49C) during the day. Death Valley would be in the upper part of that range. |
We are a group of five (23-30 years). We can drive all. Well, maybe I don't (I'm the youngest (23) and I have to pay a tax, I think so).
We love nature but cities too!!! Barbara, I think like you. Visit Seattle and Oregon could be crazy. Going to Yellowstone too but I'm a little crazy :-) What did you change of my original idea? Thank you again |
The highest temperature posted for Death Valey (and, therefore, for the entire US) was 57+ degrees C. You should definitely think of driving across Death Valley in the morning; start out from Las Vegas VERY EARLY and try to cross Death Valley no later than 2 pm.
My top five list: For scenery: West Coast - between San Francisco and Los Angeles Grand Canyon Monument Valley Yosemite Bryce-Zion For cities: San Francisco San Diego Los Angeles Las Vegas Skip Yellowstone as has been suggested. That's another whole trip, going through the Northern part of the Western states. There's enough up that way to last another 25 days. You'll have more fun if you just went to a few good places, got out of the car, and ENJOYED a location - hiking, picnicking, scenery. What you have now doesn't allow you to stop too long. I feel like you will get to the Grand Canyon, look over the edge and get back into your car again! :) |
Okay. Best scenery in the entire US:
Yellowstone Glacier Mt. Rainier Monument Valley Grand Canyon (Admittedly, I have not seen Yosemite, Bryce Canyon or Arches. New England is nice, too, I have to admit, but is a quiet beauty, and not a screaming beauty, like in the west) Best Cities in the west: Vancouver BC (Had to throw in Canada, as we in the PNW love Canada) Seattle Portland San Francisco San Diego Best scenic drives in the US not in a national park: Route 1, California Route 101, Oregon Coast (Also, again, something in New England along coastal area) Los Angeles is not attractive to the casual viewer, though people like living there. Phoenix is really ugly. Las Vegas is, well, not for me. I think it's very tacky. I've been in every state but North Dakota and lived in several, from north to south, east to west. Hope I haven't pissed off too many people.... |
Have you ever heard of Meteor Crater, Ariz? http://www.meteorcrater.com/
It's the best-preserved meteor crash site on the planet. It's also where the Apollo astronauts trained before flying to the moon. There's not a whole lot else out there, but it's pretty intersting to see and might be worth a slight detour from one of your other sights. |
From your original itinerary, I asked if you're planning to hike down into the Grand Canyon. If you are, then you will need that whole day there. But, if you're just going to stop, look and take pictures, you don't need a whole day at the Canyon. You could use another day in San Diego, though.
Like the others, I think you could skip Sacramento. You could also skip Sequoia. Try this: 16 Reno-Yosemite (via US 395S and CA 120W) 17 Yosemite 18 Yosemite -San Francisco 19 San Francisco 20 San Francisco 21 San Francisco-Cambria/San Simeon (via Monterey & Big Sur) 22 Cambria-Los Angeles 23 Los Angeles 24 Los Angeles 25 Los Angeles-Barcelona |
In reading the responses to your plans, I can imagine it might well be a bit confusing. Part of the problem is that the US west is a vast region, with so many wonderful things to see that it's quite impossible to see even a major portion of the possibilities in 25 days or even 25 years.
So it requires that one be selective in what one sees in the days available, and to be mindful that conditions may not be favorable for some things, or distances between them too great, or crowds of people too thick... If it were me in your position - and it often is - visiting a region with so many possibilities but with limited time - I'd look for things that are unique to the area; things that one can only see here and nowhere else. Then I would try to put together a route that includes as many of those things that can be seen - reasonably. Take desert. We have a lot of desert in the southwestern US. Some of it is quite beautiful, but some if it is very ugly and very hot, if spending days in ugly, hot desert takes time away from something that you might enjoy more, then you have a decision. What are the unique things in your itinerary - things you could only see here. Well, there are some obvious ones (and again, like everybody, I have strong personal opinions.) I think these places are "not negotiable," but you need to plan ahead: Grand Canyon. Unless you plan to spend several days to climb to the bottom of the canyon, 24 hours in the area is more than sufficient. Bryce Canyon. Awesome display of red rocks and more evidence of the power of water and wind. Again, a few hours is all that's required. Las Vegas. Like nowhere else. However, like Death Valley (see below) in July it will be extremely hot (average day temperature around 40°) so plan on night-time activities. Yosemite. A remarkable mountain valley. In July it will be extremely crowded and entry will be metered. San Francisco. Like Barcelona, beauty and urbanism in a marvelous package. Then there are other places that while wonderful to visit, require more time (to access and to visit) than you have: San Diego. Attractive city but you need to give it more than one night. If you can't, then save it for another time. Phoenix. Hotter than Las Vegas, and less to see. Monument Valley/4 Corners/Arches. This area is superb but not at its best in July. If you enjoy the Grand Canyon and Bryce experience, plan on re-visiting the southwest some day, preferably in April or May - fly into Phoenix, and visit Monument Valley, Canyon de Chelly, the Pueblo parks in Arizona and Colorado, and spend more time enjoying this wonderful area. As it is, you'd be spending all your time driving and have no time to see these places properly. Death Valley. Simply too hot, and a long and boring drive from Las Vegas or LA. While it's true you can sit in your car and look at it, wouldn't you rather get out of your car and breathe real air? 45° is the average high temperature in July, and the average <i>low</i> temperature (before dawn) is 29°. And that's the air temperature. The temperature of a car interior after you've been parked for a few minutes can be dangerously hot. <i>It's not called Death Valley for nothing.</i> (And by the way my father lived in Death Valley growing up - borax mining family - so I'm not making this up.) Yellowstone. Again, the key sites are extremely crowded in July, plus it's a very long distance from southern Utah. Sacramento. July is not a good time - the central California valley is very hot and there are not enough features to justify allocating time to Sacramento. Now, are there places or things to see that are not on your list that should be? Yes. Nowhere in Europe (or Asia or Africa...) are there trees anything like the California Coastal Redwoods. They are the tallest living things in the world, and among the biggest, and they only grow in a small area in northwestern California and a little area of southern Oregon. But best of all, they're less than a day's drive from San Francisco; in fact, there are a few groves just an hour or two from the city. There are other things and places that you could explore and see, and others have already suggested some of them. But if it were me, I'd amend your plan to something like this - Arrive in Los Angeles, spend a night or two to get oriented (remember there's a 9-hour time change from Catalunya to California.) Drive to Las Vegas. Even if you're still "jet-lagged" LV is ideal since you'll be awake in the middle of the night, just as Vegas is. Then go down to the Grand Canyon. If you want another night in the "red rock" country spend it in Sedona, which is quite convenient to the South Rim of the canyon (which is the side you want.) Then drive through the Painted Desert and via Kanab to Bryce Canyon, then return to Las Vegas. Drive north on US Hwy 95, then (if you want) cut across Death Valley to US 395, north past Mammoth Lakes and into Yosemite via Tioga Pass. I would recommend leaving LV at around 5 AM so that you cross Death Valley in early morning (sun at your back) for the best experience. From Yosemite, head west to California Highway 49, and continue north on Hwy 49 all the way to Interstate 80. Highway 49 is the historic "gold rush" road, past all the very interesting historic settlements dating from the 1849 gold rush. Frankly I'd then take I-80 into San Francisco, but if you want to go the other way to Reno and Lake Tahoe, you could do so. I think that after Las Vegas you wouldn't be impressed by Reno, but Lake Tahoe is certainly pleasant (especially the northern end.) Regardless, then head into SF. Either right away or after a couple of days, head north on US 101 (and/or California Highway 1 along the coast) to the Redwoods - mainly from Eureka north to the Oregon border. If you have some extra time, continue up 101 into Oregon for some marvelous coastal scenery. After you've caught your breath from the big trees, head back to San Francisco, and complete your circle to LA by means of the coastal route, visiting Monterey, Los Lobos State Park, Big Sur, Hearst Castle, and finally Santa Barbara, a lovely old city with an impressive Spanish mission. This cuts out a lot, but it also leaves enough time to see a full sample - wonderful cities, amazing natural scenery and vistas, some history, some big trees... Spend a day in the Napa vinyards too, and add wine and fine food to the list. You can't see everything, but you can get a taste of quite a lot. Happy planning! |
Completely off topic but nice post Gardy!
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We once had a house guest from Brussells, who had two weeks and wanted tos ee the entire USA! We convinced her to narrow it a bit, like just do Seattle, maybe drive/fly to SF...that is what she did, and when she flew home her last comment was "I am so glad I took your advice...USA is a big country." So I second the opinion that you will be exhausted...and see mostly a white line on the freeway. Narrow it down.
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Gardyloo. Wonderful explanation!! Should be required reading for any European or Aussie (or New Englander for that matter :) ) before they are allowed to plan a west coat itinerary . . . . .
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west <u>coast</u> itinerary . . . .
sheesh! |
Lots of good advice. This is a common itinerary that Europeans and Aussies/Kiwis like to do when they want to see the Western U.S. in the summer. We really ought to have a name for it.
I agree with the others that Yellowstone is the outlier on your itinerary. If you drop Yellowstone, then the route is a lot easier to manage, and while you do lose the Rockies and one of the U.S.'s quintessential national parks (it was first, after all), you don't really give up much in terms of scenery. So, keep L.A. and San Diego, and head over to Phoenix and then to the Grand Canyon. At this point, you start the tour that's known as the Grand Circle route. Basically, you do: Grand Canyon Monument Valley Moab/Arches/Canyonlands Capitol Reef Grand Staircase Escalante Bryce Canyon Zion Las Vegas Most itineraries start/finish the Grand Circle in Vegas rather than starting from Phoenix. Then the return part is: Death Valley US 395 up the Eastern Sierra Nevada Yosemite across Tioga Pass San Francisco Pacific Coast Highway Los Angeles Most tourist do this in about a month, which is what you've budgeted so far. This is the most practical and efficient route - or, in other words, the most bang for your buck in terms of scenery and time, which is why it's so popular. Agree with the others that Sacramento isn't worth a stop - it's only 4-5 hours from either Yosemite or Reno to San Francisco. Also, Reno isn't worth a stop, though Lake Tahoe is beautiful. I think you'd be better off with Mono Lake and the Yosemite High Country, though. And, while I like Sequoia National Park, it would be a shame to have only one night in Yosemite. You can see Redwoods in Yosemite. |
Thank you very much to all. Now I have a lot of info for planning my trip to USA. See you in July!!!! :-)
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way too much driving.
There is no sense in driving to San Diego to then go to Phoenix when the real purpose is to go to the Grand Canyon. Go directly from LA to the Canyon. Although Yellowstone would be my favorite of all the parks, you are driving almost 1200 km to spend one full day there! I would go out the eastern end of the Grand Canyon to visit the Utah NP's then from Vegas go do the California places. There is nothing worth seeing in SLC. |
A lot of good suggestions! :)
UTAH: My own inclination is towards lifelist's destinations, but cutting out the East-south Utah part (from Moab to Escalante). This is way too much desert. If I had all that extra time, I'd spend it hiking down to the floor of the Grand Canyon. Just one person's preferences. OREGON: I also like Gardyloo's well-thought out and well planned trip - except I'd cut out the part going from San Francisco to Oregon. Too much coastline. Yes, lots of beautiful scenery, and if you have the time, then go for it! ARIZONA: I agree that Phoenix itself is not much of a place to aim for. However, there is one place that you should visit in Phoenix and that is the Heard Museum. You will be passing through a lot of land that used to be inhabited only by the Indians and the Heard Museum is probably the finest American Indian Museum in the country ( I understand! I understand! There's the new American Indian museum in Washington DC and the collection in the New York Metropolitan Museum of Art, but...let's just say this is one of the finest American Indian museums!) To get a quick overview and a true understanding of what this land meant to the early inhabitants, there's no better introduction than the Heard Museum. From Phoenix you can go north to Montezuma's Castle. If you have the time you can add in Sedona (already recommended) and Tuzigoot - all located pretty much in the same "neighborhood". Further to the east, I added Monument Valley because it is located in the Navajo NATION. No passport needed, but again you can get a flavor of what Indian life was like in relation to the beautiful land they occupied. Try some Navajo Fry Bread while you're in the area. If you do stop off in Page, Arizona, I would suggest that you look into a tour of the Antelope Slot Canyon. There is a tremendous amount ot see in Arizona alone! Again, I would make the following suggestion: keep your trip limited geographically in California from San Francisco down south, in other words, go no further north than San Francisco. As you drive eastward, keep your distances limited to Monument Valley at the furthest eastward or, if you don't have the time, to Bryce Canyon. Bryce should also be your northernmost point in Utah. Too much more and you ARE driving all over with little time to enjoy the land. You come to enjoy the land, yes? Not to learn how to drive! (Just joking!). Happy planning! :) |
We are Death Valley fanatics and LOVE the place; however, please take it off your itinerary. It is just too hot in the summer - 120F at least! It is too hot to breathe and a drive-thru does not do it justice.
Your must see's include Grand Canyon Bryce Zion (include Sedona - it is an easy detour) Las Vegas (I don't like it, but it certainly is something to see for yourself!) Yosemite SF Highway 1 along the coast from Monterey to LA (including Carmel, Big Sur, Hearst Castle) LA Have a great trip!! |
What about this:
1- Barcelona - Los Angeles 2- Los Angeles - San Diego 202 Km 3- San Diego - Phoenix 570 Km 4- Phoenix - Montezuma's Castle - Sedona - Grand Canyon NP 151 + 42 + 269 = 462 Km 5- Grand Canyon NP - Monument Valley NP - Canyonlands NP - Moab 407 + 239 + 251 = 897 Km 6- Moab - Arches NP - Flaming Gorge - Rock Springs 25 + 438 + 105 = 568 Km 7- Rock Springs - Grand Teton NP - Jackson Hole 319 + 27 = 346 Km 8- Jackson Hole - Yellowstone NP 164 Km 9- Yellowstone NP - Salt Lake City 441 Km 10- Salt Lake City - Bryce Canyon NP 445 Km 11- Bryce Canyon NP - Zion NP - Las Vegas 196 + 261 = 457 Km 12- Las Vegas 13- Las Vegas - Yosemite NP 595 Km 14- Yosemite NP - San Francisco 314 Km 15- San Francisco 16- San Francisco 17- San Francisco - Monterey - Carmel - Santa Maria 182 + 6 + 287 = 475 Km 18- Santa Maria - Santa Barbara - Los Angeles 121 + 155 = 276 Km 19- 20- 21- Los Angeles 22- Los Angeles 23- Los Angeles (for unexpected problems. In only want visit LA 2 days but i don't want to miss the flight) 24- Los Angeles - Barcelona 25 Barcelona It is similar to some trips that travel agencies offer in Barcelona. I've modifeid a little bit. As you can see there are 2 days in blank. It is for your suggestions (but I don't want visit far places, it is only for modify the route. For example in day 5 there is too much Km.) I welcome your suggestions. Thank you. |
Hi Jordirr - heck, I bet you are SOOOO excited about this trip. Whichever way you choose to go (and there are many, many options) you are sure to enjoy! My family and I (UK) have 'done' most of what is on your itinerary - but we did it in 2 trips - perhaps you need to be selective. Seattle - Mt Rainier - Mt St Helens - Yellowstone was simply fantastic. But, as this is your first trip to the USA, I think you should go for the desert areas, certainly. I always remember waking up on my first morning ever in the US (in 2004) in Phoenix and the enormous cacti and the birds I'd never heard before - it was my birthday - and there was a HUMMINGBIRD there!! I don't think you need more than one night at the Grand Canyon. We STILL haven't done Monument Valley or Death Valley (something we intend to put right with our proposed trip for next year, which is an ambitious NY to LA!!) You simply cannot do absolutely everything, in my opinion, unfortunately - and you have to make some difficult choices. Have a look at my trip webpages, if you like - might give you a perspective on travelling in that vast and beautiful country. Have a wonderful time!
http://www.braininajamjar.co.uk/usa.html and http://www.braininajamjar.co.uk/rockyintro.html |
Thank you wildblueyonder
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