Trip Report: a week in Charleston and Savannah, March 2011
May 4th, 2011, 03:36 PM
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Trip Report: a week in Charleston and Savannah, March 2011
We were invited to a wedding in Washington DC and decided to extent our trip by a week to visit Charleston and Savannah. The weather was generally cloudy with periods of rain during our entire trip.
When visiting Charleston, we stayed at the Best Western in Mount Pleasant ($100 per night through Cheap Tickets), which is 20 minutes from downtown Charleston; to be precise, from the public parking on Queen St. just south of King St., probably the closest parking to the historical core. The room was fine with the exception of the AC which worked but was too noisy for those of us without window units at home.
We were traveling with a friend. We went from SF to Charleston via Chicago, leaving in a horrendous rain storm. Our friend was worried about snow in Chicago and went via LA & Miami and got stuck in Miami because of the fuel fire and did not arrive until 5 p.m. the next day.
Our first dinner in Charleston was at the Water’s Edge in Mount Pleasant. All three of us had shrimp & grits after sharing an hors d’œuvre of fried oysters. As far as I can tell, grits is the Southern word for polenta. With drinks it came to $105 for the three of us. The second night we ate at an Italian restaurant close to Market St., which I recall as acceptable but not memorable. Our final dinner was a Husk--http://www.flickr.com/photos/mksfca/5621041202/in/set-72157626432606484. Reservations are a must, but it is worth it. It’s a little chichi in its emphasis on local products and the meal was not cheap with a bottle of wine ($40) it came to $183 plus tip (see menu). For its quality and service, this is a better value than equivalent SF restaurants.
We rented a car for our entire stay. We had free parking at the Best Western in Mount Pleasant, but had to pay $10 a day for our parking in Savannah. We chose to have the car because we knew we wanted to visit some of the plantations around Charleston and that would necessitate private transportation. For seven days we paid $215.06 through Hot Wire for a medium sized car from Budget picked up and returned at the airport. Budget tried to upgrade us to a SUV for another $10 per day, but the car (a Mercury) was more than what we needed in terms of luggage space.
We did not arrive in Charleston until 10:30 p.m. on a Thursday evening, so our touring did not begin until the next day. We had reservations for a morning architectural tour of Charleston. The tour guide was OK, but it really was not an architectural tour because a lot of extra chit-chat was included. There was a curious neo-Southern explanation of the slave issue: we would have eliminated slavery in the 1850’s but we did not know what to do with them and the Civil War, aka War between the States, aka the War of Northern Aggression, was about taxes. I wonder what the guide would have said had our friend, who is African-American, been with us. But the tour gave us a sense of the historic district of Charleston so that we could repeat the tour without comments with our friend the next evening to give her a sense of that part of town. In the afternoon we went on a tour of the Calhoun mansion. It is currently occupied by a collector of 19th century antiques. The claim is that he uses the main parlor as his living room when there are no tours, and my question is: Where does he sit? It is simply overstuffed with antiques without having a museum quality layout. Worth a visit but just over the top when it comes to furnishings. We then went to the airport to pick up our friend who was scheduled to arrive at 2:15 but did not arrive until 5:30 because the plane from Miami did not have enough fuel and had to refuel in Fort Myers.
The next day we saw the Aiken-Rhett mansion. It is interesting because it still has its slave quarters and stables. Most of the mansion is in sad shape, and the parlor with the large portrait does not reflect the condition of most of the house; yet someone lived in it until the late 1960s, if memory serves me right. In the afternoon we took one of the house and garden tours which was mostly house and less garden. One large one was very nice, and a small courtyard with shade trees and a little fountain was absolutely charming. The houses varied in style, and one of the most interesting house was a building whose downstairs had been a store; the whole house was done in what I could only call a neo-Deco style.
We visited Middleton Place one morning. All the azaleas were in bloom, but not much else. It has some farm buildings with animal corrals--water buffalo in one--and some demonstration occupations: a blacksmith and a pottery area. There is also a primitive two-room cabin that was occupied untill the 1930s by a woman working at Boone Hall. It was not claimed to have been a slave cabin, but thought to reflect what they must have been like. However, the cabin was furnished for one person, not for a family with multiple children. The Fodor’s Guide gives an accurate description. That afternoon we visited the Nathaniel Russell home and the Heyward -Washington house which has the slave kitchen and laundry room in the back.
On the day of our departure, we went to Boone Hall. The main building is from the 1930’s with 19th century furnishings. But Boone Hall offered more slave history in its slave quarters than did Middleton Place. In that regard, it was historically more interesting. We also had an excellent presentation of what Gullah is and represents. From Boone Hall we went to its roadside restaurant/shop for lunch and then by-passed Charleston to go to Savannah.
For Savannah we obtained through Expedia two rooms at the Inn at Ellis Square for 3 nights for $619.19 plus $10 per day for parking. The Inn is a 4 story restored warehouse with a well-integrated 7 story modern addition of equal total height. Its breakfast was far superior to the Best Western in Charleston. Essentially we were within walking distance of historic Savannah. We had a view over the river, but that is less than one would think: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mksfca/...57626432606484.
In Savannah we ate at Garibalidi’s, Jazz’d and Wiley’s Championship BBQ. All the meals were very good. Garibaldi's is an institution, and fish and seafood is what we ordered. Our friend had a whole flounder--tempting had I realized what it was rather than some fillet of flounder, but I can’t complain about the shrimp & scallops my wife and I had. With a glass of wine and two teas, the meal came to $100 plus tip. The food preparation did not match Husk’s. Jazz’d advertises itself as a tapas bar, but one should not expect Spanish style tapas. 6 dishes plus wine came to $98 plus tip. There was live blues, with an interesting singer on the guitar, but unfortunately his electric bass accompaniment was much too loud. Our cheapest meal was at Wiley’s Championship BBQ, which I recommend although not being a connoisseur, my recommendation might not be valid. The place was full of locals and it offered the standard fare found in these types of establishments: ribs, chicken, sausage, beef brisket, etc.
On our first morning we had reserved a tour with Savannah Rambles (http://www.savannahrambles.com/ ) whose sole guide is Dirk Hardison. The tour is a great introduction to ante-bellum architecture in Savannah. My only reservation is that it is only ante-bellum architecture, with some seepage into the 1870s, so that some of the interesting buildings in the historic district of a later date were not mentioned at all. I admire and like the Oglethorpe plan for the city, but I found the traditional Charleston architecture with the piazzas (they would be called verandas elsewhere--but one import is well worth another) far more attractive. Dirk Hardison knows his subject, so he could explain a remark I heard about how wrong the brick slave quarters were in terms of climate (the soft brick absorbs, stores and then radiates heat). He could explain how the houses evolved: some of the major builders came from New England, started with New England style houses, and then adapted them--bigger windows for example-- to the Southern climate. Cost of a 3 hour tour: $20 per person.
During the rest of our time we visited individual houses. The Owens-Thomas house stands out for its architectural innovations, and the Davenport house for its restored interiors--or perhaps it was the guide who could give a specificity to what the room represented that made it stand out. We did not do the river walk. I did not do the planning, so I do not know if it even was an option, but it rained so hard on our last day that we stayed indoors as much as possible. One absolute waste of time was the Jepson Center for the Arts. Fodor’s says that “[w]ithin the steel-and-glass edifice you can find permanent hangings of Southern art, African-American art, and photography.” We did not see a single piece of that permanent collection, if it exists. All the rooms had only temporary exhibits, one of which was a so-so Hopper exhibit of his take of Riverside Drive and the Hudson river. Do not bother with this museum unless it happens to have a temporary exhibit that you might find interesting.
We were in Savannah during its music festival and went to a double bass concert in the Telfair Museum. It was interesting, with an amazing performance--entirely solo--by the double bass player.
We drove back to Charleston and caught a flight to Washington D.C. for the wedding. We stayed at the Capitol Hill Suites for $139 per night (a group rate for the wedding guests). The hotel is very conveniently located, one block from the metro and 5 minutes from the Library of Congress. We managed to see a couple of museums and exhibits while there. One evening we saw King Lear as performed by the Synetic Theater. Not a word was spoken, and if we had not seen the play very recently in a traditional performance, we probably would not have understood what was happening on stage. Nonetheless, I would recommend seeing a performance by that theater group whenever possible. We then flew home with a transfer in Philadelphia.
Aside from food around the wedding event (evening reception for out-of-towners, the wedding banquet, post-wedding brunch), we went for convenience. We had lunch at RFD Washington, 810 7th Street Northwest, which has good beer and decent hamburgers. The American-Indian Museum has a good variety of foods representing the different indigenous cuisines (modernized) of the U.S. We had a Mongolian fire pot in Chinatown. It brought back memories of 35+ years ago in Pittsburgh and we think that it was better in Pittsburgh. The meat was fine, but the vegetables were offered only as a single vegetable per plate price, which meant that it was far more limited than if a mix of vegetables came on the plate (the customer cooks the meat and vegetables in a broth at the table and drinks the created soup at the end of the meal). Service there was not very friendly. Not a rip-off, but it could have been better
Here are the pictures: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mksfca/...7626432606484/
When visiting Charleston, we stayed at the Best Western in Mount Pleasant ($100 per night through Cheap Tickets), which is 20 minutes from downtown Charleston; to be precise, from the public parking on Queen St. just south of King St., probably the closest parking to the historical core. The room was fine with the exception of the AC which worked but was too noisy for those of us without window units at home.
We were traveling with a friend. We went from SF to Charleston via Chicago, leaving in a horrendous rain storm. Our friend was worried about snow in Chicago and went via LA & Miami and got stuck in Miami because of the fuel fire and did not arrive until 5 p.m. the next day.
Our first dinner in Charleston was at the Water’s Edge in Mount Pleasant. All three of us had shrimp & grits after sharing an hors d’œuvre of fried oysters. As far as I can tell, grits is the Southern word for polenta. With drinks it came to $105 for the three of us. The second night we ate at an Italian restaurant close to Market St., which I recall as acceptable but not memorable. Our final dinner was a Husk--http://www.flickr.com/photos/mksfca/5621041202/in/set-72157626432606484. Reservations are a must, but it is worth it. It’s a little chichi in its emphasis on local products and the meal was not cheap with a bottle of wine ($40) it came to $183 plus tip (see menu). For its quality and service, this is a better value than equivalent SF restaurants.
We rented a car for our entire stay. We had free parking at the Best Western in Mount Pleasant, but had to pay $10 a day for our parking in Savannah. We chose to have the car because we knew we wanted to visit some of the plantations around Charleston and that would necessitate private transportation. For seven days we paid $215.06 through Hot Wire for a medium sized car from Budget picked up and returned at the airport. Budget tried to upgrade us to a SUV for another $10 per day, but the car (a Mercury) was more than what we needed in terms of luggage space.
We did not arrive in Charleston until 10:30 p.m. on a Thursday evening, so our touring did not begin until the next day. We had reservations for a morning architectural tour of Charleston. The tour guide was OK, but it really was not an architectural tour because a lot of extra chit-chat was included. There was a curious neo-Southern explanation of the slave issue: we would have eliminated slavery in the 1850’s but we did not know what to do with them and the Civil War, aka War between the States, aka the War of Northern Aggression, was about taxes. I wonder what the guide would have said had our friend, who is African-American, been with us. But the tour gave us a sense of the historic district of Charleston so that we could repeat the tour without comments with our friend the next evening to give her a sense of that part of town. In the afternoon we went on a tour of the Calhoun mansion. It is currently occupied by a collector of 19th century antiques. The claim is that he uses the main parlor as his living room when there are no tours, and my question is: Where does he sit? It is simply overstuffed with antiques without having a museum quality layout. Worth a visit but just over the top when it comes to furnishings. We then went to the airport to pick up our friend who was scheduled to arrive at 2:15 but did not arrive until 5:30 because the plane from Miami did not have enough fuel and had to refuel in Fort Myers.
The next day we saw the Aiken-Rhett mansion. It is interesting because it still has its slave quarters and stables. Most of the mansion is in sad shape, and the parlor with the large portrait does not reflect the condition of most of the house; yet someone lived in it until the late 1960s, if memory serves me right. In the afternoon we took one of the house and garden tours which was mostly house and less garden. One large one was very nice, and a small courtyard with shade trees and a little fountain was absolutely charming. The houses varied in style, and one of the most interesting house was a building whose downstairs had been a store; the whole house was done in what I could only call a neo-Deco style.
We visited Middleton Place one morning. All the azaleas were in bloom, but not much else. It has some farm buildings with animal corrals--water buffalo in one--and some demonstration occupations: a blacksmith and a pottery area. There is also a primitive two-room cabin that was occupied untill the 1930s by a woman working at Boone Hall. It was not claimed to have been a slave cabin, but thought to reflect what they must have been like. However, the cabin was furnished for one person, not for a family with multiple children. The Fodor’s Guide gives an accurate description. That afternoon we visited the Nathaniel Russell home and the Heyward -Washington house which has the slave kitchen and laundry room in the back.
On the day of our departure, we went to Boone Hall. The main building is from the 1930’s with 19th century furnishings. But Boone Hall offered more slave history in its slave quarters than did Middleton Place. In that regard, it was historically more interesting. We also had an excellent presentation of what Gullah is and represents. From Boone Hall we went to its roadside restaurant/shop for lunch and then by-passed Charleston to go to Savannah.
For Savannah we obtained through Expedia two rooms at the Inn at Ellis Square for 3 nights for $619.19 plus $10 per day for parking. The Inn is a 4 story restored warehouse with a well-integrated 7 story modern addition of equal total height. Its breakfast was far superior to the Best Western in Charleston. Essentially we were within walking distance of historic Savannah. We had a view over the river, but that is less than one would think: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mksfca/...57626432606484.
In Savannah we ate at Garibalidi’s, Jazz’d and Wiley’s Championship BBQ. All the meals were very good. Garibaldi's is an institution, and fish and seafood is what we ordered. Our friend had a whole flounder--tempting had I realized what it was rather than some fillet of flounder, but I can’t complain about the shrimp & scallops my wife and I had. With a glass of wine and two teas, the meal came to $100 plus tip. The food preparation did not match Husk’s. Jazz’d advertises itself as a tapas bar, but one should not expect Spanish style tapas. 6 dishes plus wine came to $98 plus tip. There was live blues, with an interesting singer on the guitar, but unfortunately his electric bass accompaniment was much too loud. Our cheapest meal was at Wiley’s Championship BBQ, which I recommend although not being a connoisseur, my recommendation might not be valid. The place was full of locals and it offered the standard fare found in these types of establishments: ribs, chicken, sausage, beef brisket, etc.
On our first morning we had reserved a tour with Savannah Rambles (http://www.savannahrambles.com/ ) whose sole guide is Dirk Hardison. The tour is a great introduction to ante-bellum architecture in Savannah. My only reservation is that it is only ante-bellum architecture, with some seepage into the 1870s, so that some of the interesting buildings in the historic district of a later date were not mentioned at all. I admire and like the Oglethorpe plan for the city, but I found the traditional Charleston architecture with the piazzas (they would be called verandas elsewhere--but one import is well worth another) far more attractive. Dirk Hardison knows his subject, so he could explain a remark I heard about how wrong the brick slave quarters were in terms of climate (the soft brick absorbs, stores and then radiates heat). He could explain how the houses evolved: some of the major builders came from New England, started with New England style houses, and then adapted them--bigger windows for example-- to the Southern climate. Cost of a 3 hour tour: $20 per person.
During the rest of our time we visited individual houses. The Owens-Thomas house stands out for its architectural innovations, and the Davenport house for its restored interiors--or perhaps it was the guide who could give a specificity to what the room represented that made it stand out. We did not do the river walk. I did not do the planning, so I do not know if it even was an option, but it rained so hard on our last day that we stayed indoors as much as possible. One absolute waste of time was the Jepson Center for the Arts. Fodor’s says that “[w]ithin the steel-and-glass edifice you can find permanent hangings of Southern art, African-American art, and photography.” We did not see a single piece of that permanent collection, if it exists. All the rooms had only temporary exhibits, one of which was a so-so Hopper exhibit of his take of Riverside Drive and the Hudson river. Do not bother with this museum unless it happens to have a temporary exhibit that you might find interesting.
We were in Savannah during its music festival and went to a double bass concert in the Telfair Museum. It was interesting, with an amazing performance--entirely solo--by the double bass player.
We drove back to Charleston and caught a flight to Washington D.C. for the wedding. We stayed at the Capitol Hill Suites for $139 per night (a group rate for the wedding guests). The hotel is very conveniently located, one block from the metro and 5 minutes from the Library of Congress. We managed to see a couple of museums and exhibits while there. One evening we saw King Lear as performed by the Synetic Theater. Not a word was spoken, and if we had not seen the play very recently in a traditional performance, we probably would not have understood what was happening on stage. Nonetheless, I would recommend seeing a performance by that theater group whenever possible. We then flew home with a transfer in Philadelphia.
Aside from food around the wedding event (evening reception for out-of-towners, the wedding banquet, post-wedding brunch), we went for convenience. We had lunch at RFD Washington, 810 7th Street Northwest, which has good beer and decent hamburgers. The American-Indian Museum has a good variety of foods representing the different indigenous cuisines (modernized) of the U.S. We had a Mongolian fire pot in Chinatown. It brought back memories of 35+ years ago in Pittsburgh and we think that it was better in Pittsburgh. The meat was fine, but the vegetables were offered only as a single vegetable per plate price, which meant that it was far more limited than if a mix of vegetables came on the plate (the customer cooks the meat and vegetables in a broth at the table and drinks the created soup at the end of the meal). Service there was not very friendly. Not a rip-off, but it could have been better
Here are the pictures: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mksfca/...7626432606484/
May 4th, 2011, 03:44 PM
#2
Great trip report! I'm especially glad you enjoyed the tour with Dirk. I "discovered" him in December and wrote my first/only recommendation for a specific tour. He really impressed me with his knowledge. It's good to know that others feel the same way. The Inn at Ellis Square is in a great location. I know cmcfong is headed tha way in a few months so I'm sure she'll be glad to read your review. Hope you get the chance to come back to Savannah soon.
Polenta = grits = kind of, sort of, but not exactly
Polenta = grits = kind of, sort of, but not exactly
May 5th, 2011, 06:58 AM
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thanks for the report. As Starrs noted I am bringing a large group to the Inn at Ellis Square (site unseen) and your report is very reassuring. We have also planned a dinner at Garibaldi's so again, quite helpful.
May 5th, 2011, 05:13 PM
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Great report. Thank you. I love the Shem Creek area, but food with a view is not like the iconic Charleston restaurants. I'm so glad you went to Husk. It's the real in place right now, but my experiences have been great.
May 5th, 2011, 05:28 PM
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That night we were not looking for iconic Charleston and had heard that Mount Pleasant had decent restaurants. We actually were hoping to find the old part of town to walk around and see what we could find, but got hopelessly lost in the dark and settled on the more touristy Shem Creek establishment.
Perhaps the one "local" Charleston establishment we did hit was the wine bar on King street right around the corner from Queen Street. A local approached us as we were drinking. We had a pleasant conversation: it turns out that he is the head of the local Democratic party. I asked him if membership was a family affair.
When we did the house and garden tour, one of the young men recognized us from the night before at the bar. Clearly we stood out.
Praise from a local is something.
Perhaps the one "local" Charleston establishment we did hit was the wine bar on King street right around the corner from Queen Street. A local approached us as we were drinking. We had a pleasant conversation: it turns out that he is the head of the local Democratic party. I asked him if membership was a family affair.
When we did the house and garden tour, one of the young men recognized us from the night before at the bar. Clearly we stood out.
Praise from a local is something.
May 4th, 2018, 06:25 AM
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grits is the Southern word for polenta.
Well, sorta kinda. Southern grits are from white corn sometimes treated with lye, but not so much any more. Polenta is grits from yellow corn. And the taste is really quite different.And if you say "these were yellow" it's 'cause they are also loaded with cheese for shrimp and grits!! ;o)
But my story is when growing up in Ohio, a favorite thing is cornmeal mush, sold in a chub package, sliced, fried and served with maple syrup for breakfast. Cost was 79cents.
NOW, in our southern groceries you can buy polenta, in a chub package for slicing and
\ frying.Cost $3.79. True story. LOL
Well, sorta kinda. Southern grits are from white corn sometimes treated with lye, but not so much any more. Polenta is grits from yellow corn. And the taste is really quite different.And if you say "these were yellow" it's 'cause they are also loaded with cheese for shrimp and grits!! ;o)
But my story is when growing up in Ohio, a favorite thing is cornmeal mush, sold in a chub package, sliced, fried and served with maple syrup for breakfast. Cost was 79cents.
NOW, in our southern groceries you can buy polenta, in a chub package for slicing and
\ frying.Cost $3.79. True story. LOL
May 6th, 2018, 02:47 PM
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grits is the Southern word for polenta.
Well, sorta kinda. Southern grits are from white corn sometimes treated with lye, but not so much any more. Polenta is grits from yellow corn. And the taste is really quite different.And if you say "these were yellow" it's 'cause they are also loaded with cheese for shrimp and grits!! ;o)
But my story is when growing up in Ohio, a favorite thing is cornmeal mush, sold in a chub package, sliced, fried and served with maple syrup for breakfast. Cost was 79cents.
NOW, in our southern groceries you can buy polenta, in a chub package for slicing and
\ frying.Cost $3.79. True story. LOL
Well, sorta kinda. Southern grits are from white corn sometimes treated with lye, but not so much any more. Polenta is grits from yellow corn. And the taste is really quite different.And if you say "these were yellow" it's 'cause they are also loaded with cheese for shrimp and grits!! ;o)
But my story is when growing up in Ohio, a favorite thing is cornmeal mush, sold in a chub package, sliced, fried and served with maple syrup for breakfast. Cost was 79cents.
NOW, in our southern groceries you can buy polenta, in a chub package for slicing and
\ frying.Cost $3.79. True story. LOL
Aug 10th, 2018, 02:51 PM
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Upgrading the access to the pictures: https://flic.kr/s/aHsjukECUu
Pictures of D.C.: https://flic.kr/s/aHsjrBRjf3
Pictures of D.C.: https://flic.kr/s/aHsjrBRjf3
Last edited by Michael; Aug 10th, 2018 at 02:55 PM.
Nov 4th, 2018, 03:11 AM
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Charleston hands down. But also there has been a lot of change in the restaurant scene in the 7 years since Michael posted this story. Definitely worth the time to research that aspect--and the hotels.
As for grits, yes, there are heirloom types of corn used for grits in high end restaurants. If you go to the supermarket in the south and buy grits for your breakfast, they're gonna be white!! LOL
This quote from the article tells me that this writer does not "understand" grits and its meaning in the South particularly.
"But in reality, the differences are relatively slim. Buy coarse cornmeal at the store and call it a day"
First, I have never seen "coarse (WHITE) cornmeal" so it is yellow cornmeal you will buy--and that will make good cheap polenta that is delicious. But it tastes nothing like southern grits, and many people really do not like the taste of the latter--unless gussied up like SNOB or Magnolias will do. But many do like them plain--and often--for breakfast. It's a "Southern thang". LOL And if you are in Charleston or Savannah, it doesn't hurt to know the difference.
As for grits, yes, there are heirloom types of corn used for grits in high end restaurants. If you go to the supermarket in the south and buy grits for your breakfast, they're gonna be white!! LOL
This quote from the article tells me that this writer does not "understand" grits and its meaning in the South particularly.
"But in reality, the differences are relatively slim. Buy coarse cornmeal at the store and call it a day"
First, I have never seen "coarse (WHITE) cornmeal" so it is yellow cornmeal you will buy--and that will make good cheap polenta that is delicious. But it tastes nothing like southern grits, and many people really do not like the taste of the latter--unless gussied up like SNOB or Magnolias will do. But many do like them plain--and often--for breakfast. It's a "Southern thang". LOL And if you are in Charleston or Savannah, it doesn't hurt to know the difference.
Last edited by Gretchen; Nov 4th, 2018 at 03:41 AM.
Nov 4th, 2018, 03:47 AM
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Here is the new restaurant scene in Charleston PLUS the old regulars, of course.
Trattoria Lucca is an absolutely WONderful Italian restaurant in an old indigo mill for terrific ambience. Xi Bao Biscuit is really great. Our kids (restaurant owners themselves) have found Husk iffy when they were there--maybe not worth the money. Bowen's Island won the best resto a couple of years ago.
Enjoy.
Garden and Gun (magazine) had a wonderful article about all there ist to do in Savannah also.
Trattoria Lucca is an absolutely WONderful Italian restaurant in an old indigo mill for terrific ambience. Xi Bao Biscuit is really great. Our kids (restaurant owners themselves) have found Husk iffy when they were there--maybe not worth the money. Bowen's Island won the best resto a couple of years ago.
Enjoy.
Garden and Gun (magazine) had a wonderful article about all there ist to do in Savannah also.
