Tips Needed for Taking Teen on "College Visits" Trips
Jan 12th, 2003, 04:00 PM
#1
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Tips Needed for Taking Teen on "College Visits" Trips
We are planning to take our teen on a trip during spring break to tour local (CA) schools to help her decide where to apply next year for college. Anyone have any tips?
Any grads of schools smaller than 5,000 students in CA who thought their school was terrific? Well, it's sort of a travel question!
Any grads of schools smaller than 5,000 students in CA who thought their school was terrific? Well, it's sort of a travel question!
Jan 12th, 2003, 04:40 PM
#3
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Make up a list of key points to rate at each place, and write down your impressions as you go, so they don't become jumbled. Spend some time around the dorm areas to see the atmosphere there. Find out where the kids hang out off-campus, and walk around. Some places are easier to manage with (or without) a car, so consider how that works in with your plans.
We've got the same rounds to make; it's easy to read books, ratings, and statistics, but it is also important to get a feel for what life is like on campus.
We've got the same rounds to make; it's easy to read books, ratings, and statistics, but it is also important to get a feel for what life is like on campus.
Jan 12th, 2003, 05:18 PM
#4
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Kat
Rule out the school her boyfriend will attend plus all surrounding schools. Then, ask her what she wants to be when she grows up. Then match the school to that interest. If she cannot tell you what she wants to be then send her to the Army for a couple years as she is not ready for college.
Rule out the school her boyfriend will attend plus all surrounding schools. Then, ask her what she wants to be when she grows up. Then match the school to that interest. If she cannot tell you what she wants to be then send her to the Army for a couple years as she is not ready for college.
Jan 12th, 2003, 06:26 PM
#5
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While I'm afraid I cant comment on CA schools (went through this on the east coast a couple of years ago), I can make a couple of suggestions. Be sure to sit through the info session offered at most schools as part of the campus tour - even if you and your child arent in love with the school after having a look around - the admissions officers who conduct these sessions often toss out information that you may not have heard before and which can be useful as general knowledge about the whole application/decision process. Also, it's okay to apply to schools you havent visited - we found that touring schools after the student had actually been accepted to them was a very different experience. Wish I could be more helpful with specific west coast schools - best of luck!
Jan 13th, 2003, 04:18 AM
#6
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"Rule" has a point, but this business of asking people what they want to be when they grow up and finding a school with a strong department in that thing is often something that backfires. Kids at 17 1/2 can change their minds drastically before they are 22. Much better to find the strongest school (so that most of the departments are strong) your kid is qualified to attend and hope her career choices crystalize before she's a senior. Just as often, though, she may still be working on a choice in the first two years after she graduates. Just make sure she gets some good work experience in her summers so she's a good job applicant after college.
Now, about college tour trips (which I have a lot of experience about).
Do's: Leave at least a half day of time per school--a whole day is better; take the official tour and info session; have your kid attend at least one class in a field she likes; try to eat with students; find out if there's a way to email some undergrads to chat after the visit; be positive about any college your daughter seems to fall in love with -- there is NO percentage in putting down her reactions, no matter what you think.
Don'ts: out-talk your daughter when talking to admissions people -- let her do the asking and talking, and ditto (by the way) talking with students; start any comment with "well, when I was in college....." EVER (it's not relevant); try to see more than maybe 5 schools in one trip -- even that's a lot; spend your in-transit time talking about the colleges, applications, interviews -- you have no idea how stressed these kids are about the whole process and she will burn out after 2 schools if you don't use the in-transit time to take a break from the topic -- talk about your touristic impressions of the town or the countryside, or just let her listen to music.
Finally, "ellie" has a very important point about visiting schools after being accepted. Even if you've visited during a preliminary go-see tour, that visit in April of senior year when she is actually thinking about being a student there in the fall is really important and can make a big difference to her. She'll see the campus completely differently and she'll be looking at the students as people she could be living with in a few months. My son got into College A on non-binding Early Action and applied to B and C more or less out of curiosity and to keep his options open, even though he was -- in October -- absolutely sure he would go to A. Came April and acceptances to both B and C. He took the "Prospective Freshman" weekend (which, by the way, is WITHOUT parents -- an important difference) at all three and decided with complete certainty that "C" (which had been his 3rd choice in October) was where he was meant to be. When you are 17 or 18, six months is a long time and your mind can change drastically.
I wish I knew more about the small schools of Calif. -- I'm a firm believer in smaller schools for bachelor's-level work for all but a few kinds of special cases. But if I can tell you nothing else, let me urge you to keep a VERY light touch on the whole process. She's more stressed than you realize, and you owe it to her to let her find her own way for this first big decision of her life. Be there for her without making the trip all about YOUR trip down memory lane or YOUR expertise about college application, and she's much more likely to listen to what you have to say when the crunch comes later. And be prepared for a very weird time between Jan. of senior year and Jan. of freshman year -- you won't know whether you and she can hardly wait to get her out of the house or whether you're both going to cry all summer long.
Now, about college tour trips (which I have a lot of experience about).
Do's: Leave at least a half day of time per school--a whole day is better; take the official tour and info session; have your kid attend at least one class in a field she likes; try to eat with students; find out if there's a way to email some undergrads to chat after the visit; be positive about any college your daughter seems to fall in love with -- there is NO percentage in putting down her reactions, no matter what you think.
Don'ts: out-talk your daughter when talking to admissions people -- let her do the asking and talking, and ditto (by the way) talking with students; start any comment with "well, when I was in college....." EVER (it's not relevant); try to see more than maybe 5 schools in one trip -- even that's a lot; spend your in-transit time talking about the colleges, applications, interviews -- you have no idea how stressed these kids are about the whole process and she will burn out after 2 schools if you don't use the in-transit time to take a break from the topic -- talk about your touristic impressions of the town or the countryside, or just let her listen to music.
Finally, "ellie" has a very important point about visiting schools after being accepted. Even if you've visited during a preliminary go-see tour, that visit in April of senior year when she is actually thinking about being a student there in the fall is really important and can make a big difference to her. She'll see the campus completely differently and she'll be looking at the students as people she could be living with in a few months. My son got into College A on non-binding Early Action and applied to B and C more or less out of curiosity and to keep his options open, even though he was -- in October -- absolutely sure he would go to A. Came April and acceptances to both B and C. He took the "Prospective Freshman" weekend (which, by the way, is WITHOUT parents -- an important difference) at all three and decided with complete certainty that "C" (which had been his 3rd choice in October) was where he was meant to be. When you are 17 or 18, six months is a long time and your mind can change drastically.
I wish I knew more about the small schools of Calif. -- I'm a firm believer in smaller schools for bachelor's-level work for all but a few kinds of special cases. But if I can tell you nothing else, let me urge you to keep a VERY light touch on the whole process. She's more stressed than you realize, and you owe it to her to let her find her own way for this first big decision of her life. Be there for her without making the trip all about YOUR trip down memory lane or YOUR expertise about college application, and she's much more likely to listen to what you have to say when the crunch comes later. And be prepared for a very weird time between Jan. of senior year and Jan. of freshman year -- you won't know whether you and she can hardly wait to get her out of the house or whether you're both going to cry all summer long.
Jan 13th, 2003, 06:57 AM
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Thanks, "Mom Admissions Person" for a great contribution. Would you be willing to discuss your approach to college cost constraints and how you handled them with your kids? My high schooler is talking about colleges with astronomical fees. I hate to discourage a dream, but....
Jan 13th, 2003, 08:26 AM
#11
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Paying for college -- that's a tough one and it has as much to do with your personal values as it does with your personal finances. I will tell you up front that I have never believed in cutting corners or going for bargains in education, and I can also tell you that of two kids who majored in computer science, the one who went to the expensive school started work with a far higher salary. Similarly, of two kids who majored in English, the one who went to the "name" college got a far better situation in grad school.
But I'm not kidding myself or you about the heavy weight of the costs of college, especially on members of the middle class. Here are a few comments, however.
1. Jen is quite right, that fat-cat schools often have fat-cat financial aid. Also, one of the reasons I like smaller schools is that your kid is not just a folder with stats -- and often with respect to financial aid, that means you can "deal" with real people and ask for reassessment of the situation. You may not get more help, but it's worth asking. And go back in person after first year if your student loves the place, is doing well, but the finances are really a problem.
2. We promised our kids that we would try to get them through college but grad sch. would be on them. This meant looking at all kinds of options, including loans, but we insisted that at least some of the loans be taken on by the kid and that the kid work -- but NO MORE THAN 12-15 hrs. a week. I have a friend whose kid dropped out after 3 semesters leaving them with heavy debt they are still paying -- but the parents never asked the kid to take responsibility for the loan!!! If they had, perhaps the drop-out wouldn't have happened.
2.Along this line, I think it's really worth sitting down with your 17-yr.-old and mapping out very carefully what your resources are, what the possibilities might be (e.g., taking out a loan of $5K year, half of which or all of which might be hers -- so that she'd graduate with $20K, translating to about $250/month to pay it back). Make her an adult with adult knowledge and adult sense of the value and cost of going to college. Tends to cut down on the amount of partying instead of studying, too.
3. Adopt a "can-do" attitude instead of an "I don't know if we can" attitude. For one thing, it'll keep everyone's morale and optimism up when things get really dicey toward deadline time. Tell your kid that money you put toward her college is expected to be paid back with interest when you retire (unless you are within 5 yrs. of retiring yourself)!
4. Explore some hidden options, like borrowing against retirement -- this isn't my favorite way to do things, but usually the loan rates are VERY low (e.g., 3%) and they force you to be quite disciplined about paying yourself back. Not all funds or 401K holders will work with you, but I found Aetna to be very helpful 6 yrs. ago. If you decide to borrow against your house, be careful: even though you can deduct the interest which is nice, you are likely to be paying higher rates and it's easy not to be disciplined about paying yourself back. Tell your kid to spend some very instructive time on the internet researching oddball scholarships, grants, and loans. It may take some time to write the essays or fill out the forms, but one kid found about $1000 for the first year doing this.
5. Tell yourself that the four years of college go unbelievably quickly (about 7 times more quickly than high school did) and that you will suddenly have quite a bit more money in hand after graduation. Plan the party you'll have when you write the last check in the winter of senior year.
Again, good luck!
But I'm not kidding myself or you about the heavy weight of the costs of college, especially on members of the middle class. Here are a few comments, however.
1. Jen is quite right, that fat-cat schools often have fat-cat financial aid. Also, one of the reasons I like smaller schools is that your kid is not just a folder with stats -- and often with respect to financial aid, that means you can "deal" with real people and ask for reassessment of the situation. You may not get more help, but it's worth asking. And go back in person after first year if your student loves the place, is doing well, but the finances are really a problem.
2. We promised our kids that we would try to get them through college but grad sch. would be on them. This meant looking at all kinds of options, including loans, but we insisted that at least some of the loans be taken on by the kid and that the kid work -- but NO MORE THAN 12-15 hrs. a week. I have a friend whose kid dropped out after 3 semesters leaving them with heavy debt they are still paying -- but the parents never asked the kid to take responsibility for the loan!!! If they had, perhaps the drop-out wouldn't have happened.
2.Along this line, I think it's really worth sitting down with your 17-yr.-old and mapping out very carefully what your resources are, what the possibilities might be (e.g., taking out a loan of $5K year, half of which or all of which might be hers -- so that she'd graduate with $20K, translating to about $250/month to pay it back). Make her an adult with adult knowledge and adult sense of the value and cost of going to college. Tends to cut down on the amount of partying instead of studying, too.
3. Adopt a "can-do" attitude instead of an "I don't know if we can" attitude. For one thing, it'll keep everyone's morale and optimism up when things get really dicey toward deadline time. Tell your kid that money you put toward her college is expected to be paid back with interest when you retire (unless you are within 5 yrs. of retiring yourself)!
4. Explore some hidden options, like borrowing against retirement -- this isn't my favorite way to do things, but usually the loan rates are VERY low (e.g., 3%) and they force you to be quite disciplined about paying yourself back. Not all funds or 401K holders will work with you, but I found Aetna to be very helpful 6 yrs. ago. If you decide to borrow against your house, be careful: even though you can deduct the interest which is nice, you are likely to be paying higher rates and it's easy not to be disciplined about paying yourself back. Tell your kid to spend some very instructive time on the internet researching oddball scholarships, grants, and loans. It may take some time to write the essays or fill out the forms, but one kid found about $1000 for the first year doing this.
5. Tell yourself that the four years of college go unbelievably quickly (about 7 times more quickly than high school did) and that you will suddenly have quite a bit more money in hand after graduation. Plan the party you'll have when you write the last check in the winter of senior year.
Again, good luck!
Jan 13th, 2003, 08:31 AM
#12
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Woops, you'd think I hadn't even finished Sesame Street with the way I numbered those items. Sorry.
Last comment: if you really can't afford the fat-cat school, remember that if your daughter does extremely well, she will be a "big fish in a small pond" -- which may give her advantages down the road applying to jobs (with glowing recs) or grad sch (top of her class). Those examples I gave re: two kids who went to difference schools? The comparison doesn't work if one kid just didn't work as hard as the other...... a big name degree can't compensate for a mess-around performance.
Last comment: if you really can't afford the fat-cat school, remember that if your daughter does extremely well, she will be a "big fish in a small pond" -- which may give her advantages down the road applying to jobs (with glowing recs) or grad sch (top of her class). Those examples I gave re: two kids who went to difference schools? The comparison doesn't work if one kid just didn't work as hard as the other...... a big name degree can't compensate for a mess-around performance.
Jan 13th, 2003, 09:27 AM
#15
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Number one question to ask the schools: how many courses are taught by tenure track professors versus graduate level teaching assistants? This is especially important in the math and science disciplines where many of the grad assistants don't speak English.
A lot of schools have cut corners by having grad school students teach the core curriculum courses. Strangely, this practice seems worst in the "elite schools," where I guess they want to give the professors more time for research. The elite schools are typically best for graduate-level education, where you have direct access to the lead researchers in the field. The professors.
A lot of schools have cut corners by having grad school students teach the core curriculum courses. Strangely, this practice seems worst in the "elite schools," where I guess they want to give the professors more time for research. The elite schools are typically best for graduate-level education, where you have direct access to the lead researchers in the field. The professors.
Jan 13th, 2003, 09:38 AM
#16
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Great advice for all of us in this situation. I have one in and one going next fall. The biggest expense, for us, is not the tuition - it is room/board/etc/etc. Tuition is a drop in the bucket compared to all of the add ons! We have had a few "come to Jesus" discussions with our #1 currently enrolled! We have learned with #1 so that #2 we will approach differently!
Jan 13th, 2003, 02:25 PM
#19
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My best suggestion is to join a hotel plan (Hilton HHonors, Marriott Rewards, etc.) and find out which is offering bonuses for multiple stays. Then book the same brand hotel for each night in different towns. You may end up with a free vacation for yourself when this is over!!
